The difference between McNair & Boller

[FadeToBlack]

We have hope at the end of a close game.

You saw it today.

[Heap86]

Yep, McNair is a warrior.

Makes a few mistakes, Comes back and wins it.

What more can you ask for?

Mac9 + Ravens, A match made in heaven.

[RockyMRaven]

I'm just looking forward to the time when McNair doesn't put the team into that position of having to come back at the last moment in the first place.

[ladyraven127]

:iagree:

Not for nothing but golly . . . . wouldn't it be nice if we actually scored a touchdown or two without 3 seconds remaining in the game??

[Mista T]

What more can you ask for?

Just 57 more minutes of good play per game! :rolling: Give him credit for the comebacks - my heart is still racing - but he never should have put us in the hole to begin with due to his picks.

:mrt:

[Beerracuda]

:iagree:


LR, wouldn't it be nice to have a 2 TD lead with 5:00 left?

That way, I wouldn't require Nitro Glycerine tablets to get me through another Ravens' game!

[Heap86]

Just 57 more minutes of good play per game! Give him credit for the comebacks - my heart is still racing - but he never should have put us in the hole to begin with due to his picks.

Mac made mistakes, then made up for them.

Did you really expect our Offense to run over the Chargers Defense? Did you really expect that?

Mac is clearly having trouble with timing and routes, he is still new.

If Mac is still having trouble late in the year, then feel free to throw him under the Bus.

I don't know about some of you guys, but I would rather have a QB who won us games then wowing us with his stats.

[Mista T]

Don't get the reaction wrong: I'm thrilled about the two comebacks. But there was a lot of poor QB play that preceded it that I won't dwell on in the 4-0 glow. I'd sooner have someone who gives us 60 minutes of decent play and let's spare the heroics.


If Mac is still having trouble late in the year, then feel free to throw him under the Bus.

After 8 games, he should have caught on by now.

[Heap86]

After 8 games, he should have caught on by now

Oh, come on now.

How long did he play in those preseason games?

The Regular Season and Preseason is a huge difference.

A good percentage of the Playbook is not even used during the Preseason.

[StingerNLG]

I do wish we'd stop talking about McNair out of both sides of our mouth. On one hand he's this proven awesome veteran, and yet when any of his poor play comes into account, he's really just a rookie here.

I'm resigned to McNair being a 1 minute QB and that's about it right now. Thankfully twice now it's been the 1 minute we needed. But for crying out loud a 12 year vet should not be throwing into double coverage, or actually throwing TO opposing players like that first pick.

The good thing is that our defense absorbed the opening Chargers drive and really didn't let them do much else. As long as our defense can keep us within 7 points, I guess we can keep punting until the 2 minute warning.

[Heap86]

I do wish we'd stop talking about McNair out of both sides of our mouth. On one hand he's this proven awesome veteran, and yet when any of his poor play comes into account, he's really just a rookie here.


Well, he's been in this system for 4 months, he techinically is a rookie here. Whats your point?

How many people predicted that Mac would have a slow start? From what I recall the majority did.


I'm resigned to McNair being a 1 minute QB and that's about it right now. Thankfully twice now it's been the 1 minute we needed. But for crying out loud a 12 year vet should not be throwing into double coverage, or actually throwing TO opposing players like that first pick.

McNair's first pick was a Crystal Clear Miscommunication, even the commentators pointed that out. The second was a bad pass, can't argue with you there.

I will be the first to admit that if Boller led us to a 4-0 record, I would NOT be complaining, maybe others would, but I would not. I was pretty much a Boller hugger until last seasons game against Denver, when he gift wrapped a victory to the Broncos, the mistakes he made in that game were inexcuseable. Boller had his chance last season, he is pretty good at home, but on the road is a different story. The difference between Mac and Boller is that Mac can win games in other stadiums.

If you can't see the difference between Mac and Boller, than you don't know much about this sport.

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

We have hope at the end of a close game.

You saw it today.

Ya know something....this shouldn't even be in our thoughts...The difference between Steve McNair and Kyle Boller is 9 years of experience...Quit comparing the two:thumbdown: You all get on my nerves with the Boller bashing:mad:

[Heap86]

Ya know something....this shouldn't even be in our thoughts...The difference between Steve McNair and Kyle Boller is 9 years of experience...Quit comparing the two You all get on my nerves with the Boller bashing

Every QB that we have will be bashed, get used to it. Our QB's since Vinny T have pretty much sucked. Until we get a QB who puts up awesome numbers and wins us games, some of our fanbase will not be happy.

At least with Mac we are 4-0, I don't care how bad he plays as long as he wins us games, and so far he is 2-0 taking this team on his back.

Alot of our fans were not happy with Dilfer, go figure.

[Mobtown]

I do wish we'd stop talking about McNair out of both sides of our mouth. On one hand he's this proven awesome veteran, and yet when any of his poor play comes into account, he's really just a rookie here.

I'm resigned to McNair being a 1 minute QB and that's about it right now. Thankfully twice now it's been the 1 minute we needed. But for crying out loud a 12 year vet should not be throwing into double coverage, or actually throwing TO opposing players like that first pick.

The good thing is that our defense absorbed the opening Chargers drive and really didn't let them do much else. As long as our defense can keep us within 7 points, I guess we can keep punting until the 2 minute warning.

What QB, 12 years in the league or not, doesn't throw INTs?? Your standards are insane and unrealistic.

The only person talking out both sides of his mouth here is you. Mac gets no credit for what goes right, but everything that goes wrong is on him. :insane:

I just cannot figure out what the beef is with Mac from you folks. Seriously, he has to be perfect to win your support?

[StingerNLG]

Mobtown you don't get it, and I don't really care to get back into it with you. If you're happy with this offense, that's great. I just thank goodness today that the defense kept us within a touchdown. Had the Chargers made their last field goal, we lost.

But go ahead and live in the pipe dream that our offense is why we're 4-0. That's fine.

[Greg]

I am trying to figure out why we are still discussing Boller.

[Mobtown]

Mobtown you don't get it, and I don't really care to get back into it with you. If you're happy with this offense, that's great. I just thank goodness today that the defense kept us within a touchdown. Had the Chargers made their last field goal, we lost.

But go ahead and live in the pipe dream that our offense is why we're 4-0. That's fine.

This thread isn't titled "What's wrong with this Offense".

I thought we were discussing McNair and Boller...again.


I am trying to figure out why we are still discussing Boller.

Totally agree Greg.

[StingerNLG]

I am trying to figure out why we are still discussing Boller.

Because it's one of the only ways people can justify the way this offense has looked this year.

[FadeToBlack]

Mobtown you don't get it, and I don't really care to get back into it with you. If you're happy with this offense, that's great. I just thank goodness today that the defense kept us within a touchdown. Had the Chargers made their last field goal, we lost.

You seem to think our defensive improvement has nothing to do with a morale boost from signing Steve McNair as the team's starting QB. I would wager to guess if you could have a private interview session with each member of the starting defense, where they wouldn't be afraid of saying what's really on their mind, they'd tell you very frankly that they didn't believe they could win under Kyle Boller as the starting QB, and that they believe they can win with McNair.

Is the addition of Landry, Ngata and Pryce enough to take this defense from halfway decent to downright dominant? Or is it more likely the defense always had the ability to be this good, they're just more inspired in their play because they expect reciprocation from the offense when it comes to winning football games?

[darb72]

Hmmm... Since it was brought up

McNair has fewer YPA.

McNair has a lower completion percentage.

Fumbles are about equal.

Boller threw more INTs.

If Boller does bad and we win then it's the defense.

If McNair does bad and we win it's because he's a great QB.

I almost forgot.

McNair cost us 33 million dollars.

[FadeToBlack]

If Boller does bad and we win then it's the defense.

If McNair does bad and we win it's because he's a great QB.

Question: If you had to bet your life on the success of the 2006 Ravens team, would you start Kyle Boller or Steve McNair?

This has now become a survival question.

[crazyraven]

Many on this board had said if we play the chargers ( a good defense) we would lose with Mcnairs style of play, instead we win but the critics don't go away and we have people questioning him. Its real frustrating to see this type of behavior but I've grown accustom to it.

For those who are concerned about the money we spent on Mcnair, its only been an 11 million signing bonus, so far, and I have to say he has deserved at least 5 million of it:4 mil for the amount of wins and 1 mil for the leadership he brings to the team. Have to say thats money well spent at this point in time.

We are in first place, we have a 4-0 record to begin the season, our players believe in our qb and our defense is still as stubborn as ever...honestly I can't complain. I'll just sit back and watch you guys pull the hair out of your heads.

GOD BLESS RAY LEWIS, STEVE MCNAIR AND DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE MONTH BART SCOTT. :thumbup:

[RavenTD]

I'm a McNair pimp,and I'm happy with what I have seen so far.
I didn't expect Dan Marino,Joe Montana.

I expected exactly what we have got,an aging vet with a QB savvy head on his shoulders.He has the whole team willing to die for him,and they will pull out their hearts for him to get that win.

McNair can only grow in the system not get worse.4-0 with McNair learning more of the offense,you kidding me.Smile people.:069:

[StingerNLG]

You seem to think our defensive improvement has nothing to do with a morale boost from signing Steve McNair as the team's starting QB.

How much longer do you think that defense will have a morale boost when they find themselves continuing to be on the field playing from behind like these last two games. You said yourself that 4th quarter magic wasn't going to last forever.

[Gabrosin]

Hey, we're 4-0 and I'll take it. But clearly our offense has still been playing bad football... we've had a couple of last-minute saves or we'd be 2-2 and everyone would say the wheels are falling off. And this has been with the newest savior at QB.

My question is, is everyone willing to admit that this offensive system simply does not enable the quarterback to succeed? Combine the poor offensive line with suspect playcalling, mix in a healthy dose of stupid penalties and far too much confusion for a group of veteran professionals. We've gone through a litany of players at just about every position, with RB and TE being the only sources of any real continuity in the Billick era (and the left side of the offensive line). We still don't even look mediocre on offense... we've looked BAD.

If the general chaos continues throughout the season, we should be looking for at least a new O-line coach and a new offensive coordinator, regardless of how far we go. I hope McNair manages to pull everything together and we can crush our opponents from start to finish instead of pulling out a comeback at the end. But it's hard for me to believe that a quarterback who looked so good for so long in another system could look so lost in ours... and that it's all his fault.

[FHRaven]

Hey, I'll take 4 - 0 anytime! I was actually a bit more encouraged by McNair and the offense yesterday for some reason. The numbers still stink but they seemed closer to making some big plays click. Or maybe I'm just feeling optimistic everytime I see 4 - 0? :crazy:

Barring a major collapse the team is in prime position to make the playoffs. That means they have the rest of the season to try and learn how to generate some good, consistant offense.

FHRaven

[darb72]

My question is, is everyone willing to admit that this offensive system simply does not enable the quarterback to succeed? Combine the poor offensive line with suspect playcalling, mix in a healthy dose of stupid penalties and far too much confusion for a group of veteran professionals. We've gone through a litany of players at just about every position, with RB and TE being the only sources of any real continuity in the Billick era (and the left side of the offensive line). We still don't even look mediocre on offense... we've looked BAD.


I've been saying that for years. I don't blame McNair anymore than I did Boller.

McNair is putting up the exact same stats I predicted for him. Not because I'm some sort of psychic, but because every QB in this system has put up exactly the same numbers.

Go back and look.
-Outside of the last half of '99 we haven't had a QB with a rating over 80. Unless I'm mistaken, either Dilfer or Blake had the highest with a 78.
-None have completed 60% of their passes.
-I don't believe any have had a 6.0+ YPA

And it's not like we've been using the same type of QB:
Steady pocket passer (Grbac)
Cocky gunslinger (Blake)
Loveable goof (Dilfer)
Homegrown mid-round pick (Redman)
First round stud with wheels and a cannon (Boller)
Former MVP (McNair)


The problem is the system and the lack of protection from the offensive line.

[Heap86]

McNair has fewer YPA.

McNair has a lower completion percentage.

Fumbles are about equal.

Boller threw more INTs.

If Boller does bad and we win then it's the defense.

If McNair does bad and we win it's because he's a great QB.

I almost forgot.




McNair cost us 33 million dollars.

McNair has two come from behind wins in a row.

McNair has led this team to the best start in Franchise History.

Boller has been here for 3 years, McNair has been here for 4 months.

McNair has accomplished more here in 4 games than Boller has in 3 years.

[FadeToBlack]

How much longer do you think that defense will have a morale boost when they find themselves continuing to be on the field playing from behind like these last two games. You said yourself that 4th quarter magic wasn't going to last forever.

It shouldn't have to. You have to think at some point McNair will become comfortable in this new offense he's been thrust into. The more he plays and wins, the more his growing pains aren't affecting the team's progress and the closer we get to hitting our stride offensively. Hopefully he'll have it figured out when it counts the most.

[Gabrosin]

It shouldn't have to. You have to think at some point McNair will become comfortable in this new offense he's been thrust into. The more he plays and wins, the more his growing pains aren't affecting the team's progress and the closer we get to hitting our stride offensively. Hopefully he'll have it figured out when it counts the most.

You'd have to think that, wouldn't you.

Except that I've never seen ANY quarterback "become comfortable" with our offense. For five years (if not longer) everyone we've tried has looked, well, like Steve McNair has looked for most of the past two games. That's what bothers me right now.

[Greg]

The problem is the OL. Yes, Boller made more silly mistakes than McNair has or will, but if you want to see silly mistakes go back and watch the early tapes of McNair or most any QB.

But until the OL is upgraded we will have an issue with this offense. When given time Boller played lights out, I have no doubt that if McNair had the time QBs like Palmer get he would be unstoppable. But I think Boller would be very good as well.

Boller brought us from behind a few times as well. Maybe the kid doesn't have it but I know one damn thing, you can't judge him on that line he has played behind.

McNair has a sense of calm about him that I am sure helps in the huddle. That might be something you either have or don't, or it might be something you gain with confidence after having a very good career, or if you don't have that career behind you something you get with a very good OL.

Personally, I think McNair is the best option given our OL situation because we need somebody who will remain calm so that the few times he does have time he can take advantage of it.

I think Boller can be the long term solution here, but only if we build a good OL to put in front of him. He doesn't have the calm air about him to be successful with the breakdowns in protection. McNair does.

Boller's advantage is his arm. McNair's is his savvy. Given this OL, we need savvy right now.

[Greg]

How is Boller's arm an advantage when he has major accuracy problems?
If he has a comparable completion percentage to McNair behind this OL, is it is arm or something else. I am sure in regard to McNair it is something else, so maybe we could give that same benefit to Boller.

[Mr OC]

"...Boller is never going to flourish in the NFL period. He simply doesn't have the "it" factor that the best QB's have..."

I seem to remember all of the experts saying this about Drew Brees a couple of years ago. I don't know if Boller will ever be a good qb or not but if he ever turns it around I know Baltimore won't be the place it happens.

[RavenTD]

The big difference is McNair is laid back,has been there seen it and done it.
Boller is hyperbole.If somehow he can calm down,when he matures,or through medication.Then maybe just maybe he won't be that Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde of QB's.

I think too much water has gone under the bridge for Kyle in Baltimore.
If he can sort his overexcitement out in another city,then it would be interesting to see what he can become in this league.A starting QB or a journeyman clipboard holder.

[highwater]

Boller is hyperbole.

Boller is hyperbole? Would you care to translate that?

[RavenTD]

Boller is hyperbole? Would you care to translate that?

Yes,maybe that didn't come across too well. I mean't that he comes out too hyped up in his own little world.The kid didn't have a chance to learn how to be an NFL QB,how an NFL QB should manage a game.Patience.Calmness.Poise.

He was blinded by the lights.The nitro button was hit from the get go.

[highwater]

The kid didn't have a chance to learn how to be an NFL QB,how an NFL QB should manage a game.Patience.Calmness.Poise.

I pretty much agree -- he was probably thrown in too quickly. But that doesn't mean he can't still be a good QB. I think McNair can help him a lot.

[FadeToBlack]

If Boller could play every game the way he played GB and MIN, he'd be a perrenial All Pro. The problem is when he's under a pass rush, he's not instinctive enough to make quick decisions, both with his feet and his arm.

[corvuscorax]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.preston07oct07,0,2659683.column?coll=bal-sports-football

From Preston today. Just a quote from Todd Heap, not trying to drag Preston into this thread...


"I'm comfortable with McNair as quarterback, but I don't think any of us are comfortable with our timing with him," Heap said. "I look in the newspapers and we keep getting C grades, and it's accurate because we can get a lot better. For what our expectations are, we have to get a lot better. But it's good to be 4-0, and improving. It's hard to pinpoint what's wrong with our offense."

If Heap feels they still need to get the timing better with McNair, I'm inclined to think it will get better. How much, who can say?
If Heap feels the O is "improving" I'm inclined to think he has a reason to say so, even if it's not totally apparent a bunch of knuckleheads (myself incuded) on a message board! :crazy:


It's hard to pinpoint what's wrong with our offense. This part concerns me greatly and I have no answer to it other than "gut feeling." It's gonna have to play itself out and my gut says the offense as a whole will improve some, but McNair and all his receivers will improve more. Just enough to extend some drives that will get points, some drives that only improve field position and keep the D off the field, and a few quick strikes for major yardage and hopefully, TDs.

Steve McNair makes a big difference to our Baltimore Ravens and, as the season progresses, that difference will become more and more evident where it counts the most, on the scoreboard!
:kewl: :kewl: :kewl: :kewl:

[StingerNLG]

Right now, there is no difference. Same bad QB play. Same bad OL play. Same horrible playcalling. The only difference right now is we luckily have a 4 game buffer to fix the problem, if it can be.

[LBoogy]

The key distinction between the two is intangibles and arm strength at this point.

I don't think Boller would have been any worse than McNair...so FAR. I miss Boller's arm, youth, and potential, but I love McNair's poise and leadership. Mac lacks a certain comfort with the offense and Boller lacked consistency. I think McNair's arm strength is a concern.

The problem with this team, as Stinger said, is the O-line and the offensive philosophy. This philosophy includes blind player loyalty, unneccessary risk, predictability, and conservatism.

Luckily, I think the O-line made DRASTIC improvement in our last game. You know why? Jason Brown. He's a beast and an upgrade over Mule. A big upgrade. This will assist both Ogden and Flynn, though I believe Flynn is a lost cause. Vincent sucks but Pashos is adequate.

The philosophy continues to be atrocious. Throwing fades to Moore, with Champ Bailey in coverage, to win the game. Shovel pass to Wilcox on 2nd and goal. Not establishing the run. Keeping Jamal in the game and not giving our GOOD backs (MA and Musa) enough carries. Get the ball to Mason, Clayton, and Heap enough. Let Demetrius Williams stretch the field. Change it up; don't be so damn predictable!

I think Boller will be a good QB in the NFL. I also think McNair will improve if the philosophy is changed.