Billick: coach vs. play caller

[Galen Sevinne]

I think Billick is a great head coach in that he motivates, rspects players and is good with the media.

I don't understand his playcalling though. He seems so intent on showing the world that he can create an air attack. We sat through a whole offseason wondering why Billick abandoned a successful running game in the Colts game. I have the same qustions after this game. Were we not wearing them down with Musa and Willis? Up 20-19, with momentum facing 3rd and 1...Billick passes, they intercept, we lose momentum and the game.

That 3rd and one was a classic 2000 scenario where we were wearing their defense down, running the ball successfully and playing stifling defense. We could have hammered them for the next 5-6 minutes...at least kicked a field goal and put the defense on the field to win the game but Billick abandons the run and we lose the game. I don't get it.

He will come out tomorrow with some arrogant "20 - 20 hindsight" crap but I would have questioned the call even if the ball is caught for a 1st down. Makes no sense.

[Greg]

I questioned the call when McNair was dropping back to pass. We had them on their heels, they were sucking wind and he took the boot off their neck in an effort to go for one big blow. A slow beat down was called for.

[UKRavenStockers]

By and large I liked his playcalling a lot tonight and last season. Much better than Cavanaugh, much better than Fassel. Why go to someone else who doesn't know his offense as well as he does?

His short yardage playcalling was stupid (the 3rd and 1 more than the goalline) but it did give us three legit shots to score the tying touchdown. One we made and the refs screwed us over a barrel, another if Boller puts it on the back pilon Darling has the play and then on the last one Heap dropped one that hit him between the numbers.

The playcalling was "unconventional" shall we say, but it gave the players three opportunities, one of which they took one of which the QB didn't get it right and one of which the receiver messed up.

[HoustonRaven]

Gimme a break!

Do either one of you remember we went 13-3 last season and a large part of that success was due to Billick and his play calling after canning Fassel???

My God .... one bad game and all of a sudden Billick cant call a good game? They had success both passing and running. Why was running the better option on the goal line? Cincy stacked the line and play action with the option to pass was the right strategy. The problem, as it was during the whole game, was execution.

Funny how not one person mentioned yet that TD pass that bounced off Heaps chest and picked off by Cincy to end the game. Was that Billicks fault too?

[Galen Sevinne]

Gimme a break!

Do either one of you remember we went 13-3 last season and a large part of that success was due to Billick and his play calling after canning Fassel???

My God .... one bad game and all of a sudden Billick cant call a good game? They had success both passing and running. Why was running the better option on the goal line? Cincy stacked the line and play action with the option to pass was the right strategy. The problem, as it was during the whole game, was execution.

Funny how not one person mentioned yet that TD pass that bounced off Heaps chest and picked off by Cincy to end the game. Was that Billicks fault too?


I'm talking about the third and one when we had gained momentum. I think the goal calls were suspect too but, one could make a case that throwing was ok. That 3rd and one though...horrible in my mind. In 2000, Jamal was had busted a run for a first down and it would have been over. Throwing...especially a long pass opens up unnecessary risk which came to fruition.

My main point was that we sat around all offseason wondering where the run went against the Colts. Wasn;t this similar? It is a tendency of Billick now and it is because he feels so criticised for not being able to put together a passing game as a head coach.

[ClericBlackDave]

Can we just Blame McNair for a loss?


He was a turnover Machine. This had nothing to do with Billick. Period.

[Losac]

Can we just Blame McNair for a loss?


I know you've been waiting all offseason to do it. :eyes:

[ClericBlackDave]

I know you've been waiting all offseason to do it. :eyes:

Losac, please. Get over yourself. McNair had a bad game. And I was pulling for him to pull it out.

But at what point can fans like yourself see that McNair can't beat a simple cover 2?

This had nothing to do with playcalling, it had to do with execution. Period.

If Boller had the same game McNair did those 1st 3 quarters, you'd be calling for his head.

He was a turnover machine. Period.

[RockyMRaven]

Rack it, Cleric.
I don't understand the reluctance to assign the blame where it belongs. McNair had a truly horrific game tonight. It was amazing that the halftime score was only 12-10, and that can be attributed to the great play of our defense. McNair had a hand in - what was it - 4 or 5 of the turnovers? In between turning over the ball, he was throwing it high over the heads of open receivers. One of those resulted in an interception. The Billick-haters want to say that those were bad calls as well, because they were unsuccessful. But they were good play calls, piss-poorly executed. The players have to take some responsibility for the execution of a game-plan, and tonight, the offense -mostly McNair - did not execute.

I would also have liked to see more running in the short-yard situations. Initially, the pass was not a bad idea, because the run was expected, but in the goal-line situations, I think we should have been able to get 1 yard for a score. But I really think that there is an element on these boards that are in denial about McNair's effectiveness. What I saw tonight really worried me. It means that last year's Denver game and Indy game were not aberrations, and they can happen at any time. McNair's "calmness" is often lauded, but tonight, and in those other games, the offense needed a spark, and maybe a little more emotion from the team leader is needed in those situations to provide that.

Maybe, if McNair has an injured groin, he shouldn't play next week. Boller can't be worse than he was tonight.

[festivus]

I don't *think* Billick called a bad game. Really, the play calling looked fine to me, except for the six times he called the 'turnover' play. And the one time he called the 'outrageous steal a td bad call' play.

So the tv announcers might have called something else on *one* play? I'm not impressed.

We had execution problems, from one position particularly, all night. Hard to see the play calling through the inaccurate passes and turnovers. . .

[b-more_4_Life]

Couldnt agree with you more Galen. The play calling was the worst I've ever seen it. You have the ball 6 times at the 5 yard line and you run the ball 1 time. Give me a break. And you have your back up QB in who sucks and you're still throwing the ball. I've been a Billick support since '99 but I'm starting to believe that he alone is hurting this team.

This team was totally unprepared for this game and when your unprepared for a football game this is what you get: turnovers, penalties, and injuries. Billick was too soft on these guys throughout training camp and he needs to be held accountable for this loss!

[RavenDavey]

And you have your back up QB in who sucks and you're still throwing the ball.

McNair...missing open receivers, throwing the ball and making our WR's leap and expose theirselves to big hits, and most importantly 6 turnovers!!

Boller did more than what was expected of him, yet he still sucks in your opinion. Get off it!

Boller put that last pass on the numbers as heap was heavily defended, he had to zip the ball as he did but Heap dropped the pass. Not Boller!

[Fanman]

this is the thread I was looking for today and it's well founded. I have said since 2002 we will never win another SB w/ Billick as the head coach AND running the offense. The playcalling last night on the goal line was pathetic and cost us a chance to tie the game. Billick sucks calling the plays and always has.

Also, it was clear McNair was hurting and was having trouble throwing...Boller should have been brought in much sooner...again, another bad decision by Billick.

FM

[b-more_4_Life]

McNair...missing open receivers, throwing the ball and making our WR's leap and expose theirselves to big hits, and most importantly 6 turnovers!!

Boller did more than what was expected of him, yet he still sucks in your opinion. Get off it!

Boller put that last pass on the numbers as heap was heavily defended, he had to zip the ball as he did but Heap dropped the pass. Not Boller!

Two problems: first Boller should have never been throwing the ball and you're facing one of the worst rush defenses and two Boller has no touch and threw that ball 100 mph.

My beef isnt with Boller; he was put in a very difficult situation and Billick made it worse by having him throw the ball so much when he just came off the bench.

And the turnovers are a direct result of not being prepared for the game and Billick is the only one who deserves the blame for that! Also, McNair was injuried because Billick was too stuborn to set up a run game and instead Cincy could tee off on our inexperienced O-Line.



Run the ball Coach...it won you a Superbowl!

[RavensFanIAm]

Not to be the black sheep here, but when will we start discussing how much of an influence the O line had on these plays? We can blame McNair, blame Billick, but the fact of the matter is, the O line struggled last night, which is why a lot of the play calling looked ineffective. In the first half, the Bengals D was at McNair way too much, in the backfield constantly. McNair was on the ground every other play. IMO, running the ball more would've helped with that, because it seemed to be working. That sack/fumble McNair had? Because Yanda got beat BAD.

So all the Billick and McNair haters, chill out. There's enough blame to go around for everybody on offense

[Fanman]

I agree w/ B-more here. RUN the ball inside the 5 yard line...esp vs Cincy! They had success running all night...remember Musa plowing in from 6 yards in the 1st half Billick? Billick is a joke.

FM

[Ravenswarrior19]

on the 3rd and 1: Billick says (paraphrase) 'you try to anticipate what they are doing, and call a play that has the best chance to be successful.'
They load up the line, so we throw to a WIDE OPEN Derrick Mason. But alas, the throw is high, Mason cant hold it, and its picked off. If the throw is on target, its and easy 1st down. Billick is trying to confuse the D and keep them on their heels, which is exactly what I want the playcaller to do.

[flraven]

Not to be the black sheep here, but when will we start discussing how much of an influence the O line had on these plays? We can blame McNair, blame Billick, but the fact of the matter is, the O line struggled last night, which is why a lot of the play calling looked ineffective. In the first half, the Bengals D was at McNair way too much, in the backfield constantly. McNair was on the ground every other play. IMO, running the ball more would've helped with that, because it seemed to be working. That sack/fumble McNair had? Because Yanda got beat BAD.

So all the Billick and McNair haters, chill out. There's enough blame to go around for everybody on offense


I thought the same thing too, the O-line was letting the Cincy D get to McNair pretty easily. Gotta hope they fix that.

[jonboy79]

I missed the first Quarter. When JO was in was he looking good? Was he part of the problem? Terry and Yanda didn't look great, but how did the hobbled JO look before that.

[Mwjergs]

There is plenty of blame to go around for last night's loss. The thread is about Billick.

Billick has shown to be a fantastic head coach. He motivates players well and they like playing for him. He is a great manager of people.
His playcalling shows more imagination than the previous two Offensive Coordinators. However, there are times when he has shown a tendency to give up on the run and simply throw it. I think the first series made a clear statement about that. Sometimes the simple answer is best and there were times that a run would have been just fine (a sweep, counter) McGahee and Smith ran effectively and should have been used more on the ground. Overall I don't think he calls a bad game but this one and the Colts playoff game I felt playcalling had a part in the defeat.
It's his team, if he wants the job, more power to him, he should be able to make that decision.

[Greg]

I have said since 2002 we will never win another SB w/ Billick as the head coach AND running the offense. The playcalling last night on the goal line was pathetic and cost us a chance to tie the game. Billick sucks calling the plays and always has.
Uh, I was critical of the run on the 3rd and 1 that led to the pick, but this is just insane. These poor play calls at the goal line led to a TD that was nullified on a TERRIBLE call by a ref and another TD that bounced off the most reliable hands on the team.

Did he suck last year when we went 9-2 (including the playoff loss) with him calling the plays?

[Galen Sevinne]

There is plenty of blame to go around for last night's loss. The thread is about Billick.

Billick has shown to be a fantastic head coach. He motivates players well and they like playing for him. He is a great manager of people.
His playcalling shows more imagination than the previous two Offensive Coordinators. However, there are times when he has shown a tendency to give up on the run and simply throw it. I think the first series made a clear statement about that. Sometimes the simple answer is best and there were times that a run would have been just fine (a sweep, counter) McGahee and Smith ran effectively and should have been used more on the ground. Overall I don't think he calls a bad game but this one and the Colts playoff game I felt playcalling had a part in the defeat.
It's his team, if he wants the job, more power to him, he should be able to make that decision.

Thanks for getting the thread back on focus!

The truth is the Ravens do not have the personel to throw the ball around. Clayton, Heap and Mason are all possession receivers. DWill has the potential to stretch the field but for the most part the Ravens are a possession team.

McGahee had 71 yards on 19 carries. He was averaging more than 4 yards a carry. Again, the goal line offense at the end of the game is not what I have a huge problem with...it is the 3rd and 1 play. The Ravens were in the lead, the defense was stifling and we had the ball close to midfield. Throwing the ball just creates unnecessary risk in this situation. Even if the run doesn't gain the first down...Koch punts it inside the 20 and our defense goes to work. We gained the field position with the lead with less than 10 minutes left...in 2000, game over!...run the freakin' ball. We had won the game at that moment in my mind and would only lose it with unecessary risk. :hammer:

[b-more_4_Life]

Did he suck last year when we went 9-2 (including the playoff loss) with him calling the plays?

Greg, on the most part last year he was a wonderful play caller. However, these last 2 games (including playoff Dolts game) have me not only questioning his play calling but also the way he prepares the team. Also, this is a new season and teams are now hungry to play us because we were last yr's Division winners. Teams are not looking past us like they were last year. He is now 3-6 in openers and this goes directly to not having the team ready to play!

The penalties, fumbles and McNairs injury can be attributed to Billick not having the team prepared along with stupid play calling. The most amazing thing is despite Billick they still almost won!

[festivus]

And the turnovers are a direct result of not being prepared for the game and Billick is the only one who deserves the blame for that! Also, McNair was injuried because Billick was too stuborn to set up a run game and instead Cincy could tee off on our inexperienced O-Line.

Ummm, welcome to the forum.

Are you saying it's Billick's fault McNair was injured because the game plan involved too much passing? Would it have been Billick's fault if McGahee had been hurt instead, or is that only when we have a run-heavy plan installed?

The turnovers were not Billick's fault. He cannot hold the ball for McNair, or McClain, and he cannot catch for Todd Heap. There is only so much a head coach can do.

Everyone needs to come in off the ledge.

:2c:

[Greg]

He is now 3-6 in openers and this goes directly to not having the team ready to play!
What is his record in November and December when his team is fresh and others are wearing down?

[b-more_4_Life]

Ummm, welcome to the forum.

Are you saying it's Billick's fault McNair was injured because the game plan involved too much passing? Would it have been Billick's fault if McGahee had been hurt instead, or is that only when we have a run-heavy plan installed?

The turnovers were not Billick's fault. He cannot hold the ball for McNair, or McClain, and he cannot catch for Todd Heap. There is only so much a head coach can do.

Everyone needs to come in off the ledge.

:2c:

There's no ledge involved at all. Just stating frustration over our lack of preparedness.

And yes I'm am saying its Billicks fault for putting McNair in the position to get hurt. Guess what I'm not the only one. The owner of this site said the following about Billick:



When they had a chance to develop rhythm and control the game and the clock on the ground, Brian Billick opted instead to throw the football.....


Billick did little during the game to slow down the Bengals jailbreak pass rush and without forcing them to stay true they wreaked havoc on the Ravens passing game despite a rather shoddy Bengals secondary. In the process it may have cost Billick his starting quarterback for a while.



So I guess I'm not the only one that believes Billick's play calling hurt our QB.

Billick's job is to have the team disciplined and prepared. Can you honestly say the Ravens were either one of these things last night?

If your football team is not either one of these things then turnovers, penalties, and injuries are bound to happen!

[Fanman]

Billick's play calling in the RedZone has always been suspect...even last year we were awful in the Redzone...go look at the rankings. Last night was just another example of Billick being a negative ON GAMEDAY. I am not disputing the fact he is a great motivator, good judge of players abilities, mostly...etc.

But Billick calling plays makes me vomit...he blows. ANY other coach in the league gets us in the endzone last night. He won't let go of the controls and it will cost him eventually when Biscotti loses his patience.

FM

[ravens-maniac]

i agree with most here, with the lead 3rd and 1 , I see no reason why we are throwing the ball, run the ball & the clock down at worst punt and put them inside the 10 where are defense can stop them again, Like Billick as a coach and play caller but sometimes i think the Offensive genius goes to his head, sometimes it is not about faking out the defense but to simply run over them. I feel his play calling was the reason we lost, Our defense kept us in the game even with the turnovers

[OriAl]

There was nothing wrong with that third and one call except that McNair didn't hit a wide-open receiver. Cincy was expecting a run, which is why no defender was anywhere near the receiver. If McNair doesn't throw the ball 10 feet in the air, it's a first down. If the throw is right on target, add some yards after the catch.

The call to throw to Heap on the final play failed because Heap didn't catch a pass he usually catches, and the carom went Cincy's way, as caroms did all night. Maybe a couple of runs would have gotten the TD, maybe not, but we did score one TD on a pass and should have scored the second.