Patriots caught cheating

[Galen Sevinne]

"SNAP: Patriots reportedly broke rules by filming Jets

September 11, 2007
NEW YORK (Ticker) - The NFL has determined that the New England Patriots violated league rules Sunday when they videotaped defensive signals by the coaching staff of the New York Jets, according to a report on ESPN.com. "

Ths is an intersting story. I heard somewhere that the NFL might take a draft pick from the Patriots next year.

Shouldn't they have to forfeit the game? I mean they cheated and won...can't one deduce that the cheating might have lead to the win? I have heard no comment about forfeiture.

[HoustonRaven]

Shouldn't they have to forfeit the game? I mean they cheated and won...can't one deduce that the cheating might have lead to the win? I have heard no comment about forfeiture.

Its a bush league thing to do but I dont think you take the win away. And as an AFC team, I would rather see them suffer via 2-3 draft picks. They are close to cap jail and a hit on their next few picks would a tough road to hoe.

[highwater]

The league is certainly not going to take away the win, but the the Patriots should receive a severe penalty for this. What makes it worse is they were caught last year in Green Bay doing the same thing, so this is a repeat offense. I hope they take away a very high draft pick. The league can't just let this go.

[yeahravens]

Cheating is cheating, steroids is cheating, maybe they suspend Belichek for 8 games

[sailorsam]

rumor I heard is they will forfeit a 2nd and a 5th.
I really, really hate that team, and I hope they get hammered. And I have to think they've been doing it for a while and that's one explanation for their success.
they are cheaters. I hope they start getting stomped. maybe without this advantage (and apparently they've been doing it for awhile) they'll drop to a 10-6 or 9-7 team.

[CrowMST3k]

This is about 1000000 times worse than Pac Man Jones, Tank Johnson, Michael Vick, or even Maurice Clarett.

This is something which threatens the integrity of the game. And if Goodell can come down so hard on what are essentially PR cases, then he would be absolutely rotten as a commissioner to not penalize the patriots worse than via a few draft picks.

This kind of thing threatens the trust that the fans have that the product which the NFL deals is built around competition and coaching. The black-sox scandals threatened to tear Major League Baseball apart, and in proper fashion, in order to preserve the game against what could have very well destroyed it, every one who was responsible was banned from Baseball for life.

When Pete Rose violated the integrity of the game of Baseball, bet on the game, was caught, he was barred for life from all American professional Baseball.

Everyone who is found to be involved, pending further investigation, should absolutely be banned for life from American Professional Football, at the very least, the National Football League and it's affiliates. Furthermore, the game against the Jets should not count in the official records. Remove the game, or treat it as a tie in New York's records, and a loss in New England's records.

The moves that Goodell has made in response to the off-field conduct of players has been acceptably hard. And if the punishment for those who have sought to violate the integrity of a national pasttime, the integrity of a city, the integrity of a fanbase and the integrity of a team, should see a punishment so great as to ensure that any similar action will never be taken again.

Ban every Patriots player, coach or otherwise who was aware, participated in, and/or knew of this cheating. It's the only option.

[Derrick1]

The Top 10 things the Patriots can do with a Camera.... from www.crazyfootballchick.com


10. Take photos for the “Tom Brady Match-the-Baby-to-the Baby-Momma” game


9. Show how close a shave you can really get at Gillette Stadium


8. Make Randy Moss an album of all the people he cares about on the team and call it “Randy”


7. Give NFL officials enough visual evidence so they can invent the “Tuck Rule”


6. Get the first color photos of Vinny Testaverde


5. Take before and after pictures of Rodney Harrison, and compare them to Barry Bonds’ rookie card


4. Reminisce about the good-old days when they could beat Peyton


3. Get a photo of Bill Belichick smiling (Oh, who am I kidding?)


2. Photoshop Doug Flutie’s picture to make him an imposing 5’10”


1. Win three SuperBowls in four years

[RAVENOUS52]

WOW... This really changes my opinion of that franchise.

[crazyraven]

Could someone tell me whats the difference between taking pictures of offense and defensive formations and giving that to the QB and other players to review during the game? I don't understand the beef. I mean if someone was able to take a camera and figure out hand signals and relay it to the players on the field they should be able to apply what they have learned to the game. What if they were using binoculars, would it be any different? I remember hearing that some teams employed lip readers to see if they can figure out what the other team is saying. I never heard anyone losing draft picks over that.

[highwater]

There is a league rule prohibiting teams from videotaping opposing teams sending in signals -- it's that simple. You know, like running dog-fighting rings is a felony.

I hope the Commish bitch-slaps the Patriots for this, especially since they have been caught and/or accused of doing this before.

[tex_fan]

I think that Patriots should be punished heavily for this. Remember Tank Johnson, Chris Henry and Pacman, those guys got suspended for tarnishing the image of NFL, but this thing it puts a question mark over the integrity of the league. What about suspending Belichick and his coaching staff for the season (or a few games at least).

I wonder, how much credibility their three rings hold now, Belichick and Co. have stooped to a new low. Now that probably explains why a QB drafted in sixth round become the most clutch QB in NFL, it is so easy when you have the opposing teams defense at half time.

Your views guys

[MrPoeJangles]

I think that Patriots should be punished heavily for this. Remember Tank Johnson, Chris Henry and Pacman, those guys got suspended for tarnishing the image of NFL, but this thing it puts a question mark over the integrity of the league. What about suspending Belichick and his coaching staff for the season (or a few games at least).

I wonder, how much credibility their three rings hold now, Belichick and Co. have stooped to a new low. Now that probably explains why a QB drafted in sixth round become the most clutch QB in NFL, it is so easy when you have the opposing teams defense at half time.

Your views guys

Considering they suspended Dallas assistant coach W. Wilson 5 games and fined him $100,000 for taking HGH, while under a doctors orders to treat his diabetes, you would hope the penalties would be severe.

The thing about the Patriots is they always rubbed it in everybody’s face that they were the "smartest" team in the league. I wonder why?

[camdenyard]

Could someone tell me whats the difference between taking pictures of offense and defensive formations and giving that to the QB and other players to review during the game?

You're kidding, right?

I guess if Mangini screamed "we're running a Cover-2 with a LB overload, the LDE is dropping into coverage and the MLB and RDE are rushing the QB!" , and that's what they did, then I would say no difference.

But that's not what happens. Teams hide what they plan to do for a reason.

Viewing after the fact pictures, or studying tape of past tendencies is different from breaking established competition rules in order to figure out what's coming before it happens.

I guess you think the Watergate burglary was a-OK too? I mean, a little blatant cheating never hurt anyone, right?

I'd do this:
1. Take their 2nd round pick in 2008;
2. Fine the organization $500,000; and
3. Suspend Belichek for one game and prohibit him from attending practices and communicating with the team in any way.

That would stop the nonsense.

[yeahravens]

The story I heard is that they taped for the next game, regardless they should suspend Bilicheck for 8 games because this is not the first time this has come up.

In college they would keep them out of the playoffs. In keeping with the Roger Goodel scheme, major punishment is due.

[ravenwoman]

Bill Belicheck is the Richard Nixon of Pro Football. Think about it.

[RavenTD]

The PATS should be made to change their team logo forever more.See link.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a238/RavenTd/Patriots20New20Logo.jpg?t=1189684028

[sailorsam]

Bill Belicheck is the Richard Nixon of Pro Football. Think about it.

that's a TERRIBLE thing to say about the late President Nixon.

[Ravenswarrior19]

The PATS should be made to change their team logo forever more.See link.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a238/RavenTd/Patriots20New20Logo.jpg?t=1189684028

hahahaha

[UKRaven]

Nice one TD!!

Here is one punishment - they lose ALL tie-breakers this season, add that to a 'big' fine, and loss of 1st round draft pick.

Boo!!! like hell when they play us - I'll come over to help you guys with some 'nasty' chants!

"Same old Pats - always cheating"
"Belicheat - are you Nixon in disguise ?"

Give any Bostonshites that make the trip a really hard time at the tailgate - Celery anyone?

They are still cheats!!!!

[Gwaihir]

If they aren't going to take away the victory, (Highly unlikely!), then I think they should lose the priviledge of having a Mike in Brady's helmet for the rest of the year!

I always thought the mike in the quarterback's helmet was BullShit anyway, giving the offense an unfair advantage, (Like they don't have enough already!), and diminishes the Home field advantage slightly. Especially since the Defense doesn't get one.

Anyway, I think losing their offensive mike on the field would help alleviate their cheating, underhanded tactics.

[Gwaihir]

Does anyone else find it an interesting "coincidence" that Eric Mangini, a long time Bill Belichick assisstant, is right on top of all of Belichick's underhanded, cheating tactics. I would have thought Belichick would have been smart enough to change his style of cheating, his M.O., if you will, when facing his past assisstants. He IS supposed to be a genius, right? This doesn't seem very intelligent.

[jonboy79]

I think they should:
Immediately institute the green dot helmet and transmitter on Defense.
The Pats forfeit the 1st game as a LOSS to the Jets.
Bellichek 4 gm suspension.
HUGE $1m or so fine to Bob Kraft.

reasons: Eliminate the possibility of recreating Bellichek's scam. Forfeit the game they were aided (in the 2nd half) of knowing EXACTLY what play the defense was running. Repeat offenders need to pay and this is NOT Bellichek's first accusation or even proven mis-doing. There is no way the entire organization wasn't aware of the cheating going on. The ammount of money the Pat's have made on cheating in the last 6 years is despicable. $1m is quite a discount.

At this point I feel this is sof-T(capital T). Why? Because at this point everyone is questioning the validity of those Lombardi's won by teams that were NOT the most talented in the league, while it was assumed they won due to coaching greatness and Ref payoffs. Now add in assumed cheating, WOW.
The integrity of the entire league has been questioned for this. It's too bad. I don't understand stripping draft picks. I understand how it hurts a team, I simply fail to see the connection... The punishment should fit the crime, not be simply damaging.

[crazyraven]

Viewing after the fact pictures, or studying tape of past tendencies is different from breaking established competition rules in order to figure out what's coming before it happens.
There were a few notable players who said that it didn't really matter if the signals were stolen. I found that surprising after all the Watergate screamers around here. However I saw a clip of Jeff Fisher saying that this tactic was clearly outlined in the NFL as unacceptable. There is An Actual rule of no signal stealing by video equipment, I didn't realize that. I thought the NFL teams were allowed to video tape and watch game film/Polaroid at the game and even review it later with the team. That's why I thought Coaches covered their mouths when they spoke into their headsets and had like five or six coaches giving hand singles in at a given time. Plus as one other poster mentioned there is the use of the qb headset so with all this electronic equipment on the field its hard to distinguish whats right or wrong. I thought everyone was watching and taping including the actual teams.

[ExiledRaven]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/09/13/cheating/index.html?eref=T1

check that out...really. Dr. Z may be strange sometimes, but he's one of the writers I most respect after Greg Easterbrook who is both brilliant and hysterical.

Some juicy stuff


Last year the Lions played the Patriots in Foxboro. At one point their coach, Rod Marinelli, phoned up to the press box, "There's a camera pointed right at our defensive coach making his calls. Is that allowed?" A Lions' employee called the NFL booth. No, it certainly was not. So the videotaper was stopped. Then after a while he began again. The same process was repeated and he was asked to stop again. Now that's dedication.


"At one point we had a good drive going against the Patriots," said one Lion who doesn't want his name involved in this mess, but was willing to talk about it. "Mike Martz really had 'em going. They were getting fouled up, lining up wrong, we were moving the ball. Then boom, the headset from the sidelines to the coaches' booth goes out.


"Yeah, I know," Lewis said. "Headset went out. It happened to me in Foxboro, too."

I am VERY interested to see what happens. I expect to see serious penalties for the franchise and BB. This is in many ways just as bad as the NBA refereeing scandal. It's not the Chicago Blacksox scandal...but it's pushing it pretty hard.

[jonboy79]

The more we hear, the deeper this gets. This is pointing, IMO, towards a long, thought out process of cheating. It should be punished very strictly.

[highwater]

I also read somewhere that Jack Del Rio said his headset also went out in the Jags/Pats playoff game in Foxboro the year before last. This cannot be a coincidence.

[deuce]

Dynasty of cheating.

[Greg]

I thought the NFL teams were allowed to video tape and watch game film/Polaroid at the game and even review it later with the team.
They are allowed to take Polaroids during the game. Actual film can't be reviewed until after the game when every team is given a copy. The film is done by NFL Films, not by the teams, teams are not allowed to film or tape, especially opposing coaches and their signals. The film is of the plays only, not signalling.


That's why I thought Coaches covered their mouths when they spoke into their headsets and had like five or six coaches giving hand singles in at a given time.
They cover their mouths so they can't be lip read via binoculars, which would be hard to prevent or catch. It could be done anywhere on the other side of the field, even from the stands, and then communicated in.

[MRAVEN]

$750K fine,no 1st round pick if they make the playoffs.
Just heard it on ESPN.

[Merlin]

Better than that

Bill Belichick was hit with a $500,000 fine Thursday night -- the maximum allowable by NFL by-laws -- for violating the league's policy on videotaping the Jets defensive signs Sunday. In addition, Roger Goodell notified the Patriots that they would forfeit a 2008 first-round draft choice if they reach the playoffs, or second- and third-round picks if they do not qualify for the playoffs. The club was also fined $250,000.

There is a new sheriff in town :thumbup:
Great that he isolated Belichick!! Just desserts

Now I wonder why some enterprising Baltimore reporter doesn't followup on Trent Dilfer's allegation about the Titan's taking his playbook after the Ravens at Titan's game in 2000 that was in "America's Game" earlier this year. McNair & Rolle must know the truth

[sailorsam]

glad of it!
suspending Blchk for a game would have been a joke. fining the Pats that $ would have been minor. fining him personally should make an impression...and NO ONE wants to lose a #1 pick.

[ExiledRaven]

I wish they had suspended BB for the year...but of course there are rules for everything.

Maximum was in order here, there is no question about that.

[MRAVEN]

In the end it's a good ruling.
Kinda nips it in the bud for the rest of the teams.
Good message.Strong message.

[AZRAVEN]

They lose their first round pick, how much do you want to bet they work a trade for someone else's first round pick in the draft. Don't think for a minute Belicheck won't find a way around this, they don't consider him a genius for no reason.

[yeahravens]

Well look at the average age of their linebackers, Rodney Harrison, etc. It will hurt them.

[Admin Steve]

Well I guess the Patriots/Jets 'Border War' is now a full fledged major conflict. Mangini spilled the beans on BB.

[The Fanatic]

They lose their first round pick, how much do you want to bet they work a trade for someone else's first round pick in the draft. Don't think for a minute Belicheck won't find a way around this, they don't consider him a genius for no reason.


Unfortunately this was already taken care of this past year.
They have two first round picks in the 2008 draft.
They acquired a 1st rounder from the 49ers in a trade this past draft.

Bastards!!!

Should have suspended the"Genius" for a game or two in addition to everything else.

Remember how pissed off Belichik was when Mangini took the Jets job?

Maybe we now know a little bit of why he was pissed off.

[camdenyard]

Losing a first or a second AND a third is huge. I'm impressed.

[AZRAVEN]

I knew they had a second pick from San Fran but I have no doubt they will work another trade so they still have two first rounders. I don't really see this as that big a penalty. Kraft will probably find a way to reimburse Bill for the half mil fine. Sounds to me like Roger took good care of his buddy Kraft.

[Ravens0587]

What I don't like about this is it doesn't affect them this year.

It might deter them from doing it again but it sdoes nothing for this year.

They could win the super bowl and bellechick could decide to retire. Well then the team is paying for it with draft pick but this years team got of scot free

[highwater]

I think taking a first round pick away is appropriately harsh, but I would like to have seen Belichick suspended for a game or more, just for the humilation factor. I'm not sure what fining these guys really accomplishes -- 500 large sounds impressive if he actually has to pay it, but if the team picks it up for him, it's nothing.

[Admin Steve]

Half a mill isn't much for BB. I'm sure at some point, Kraft will slip him a rather thick manilla envelope

But to put things into perspective, this is cheating! (http://www.sltrib.com/sports/ci_6891160)

[jonboy79]

I too am a bit disappointed that there is no immediate effect. A 2 gm suspension(Bellichek), or game forfeiture would have seemed more harsh and correct, IMO.

[Ravenswarrior19]

I wish this would have led to a full scale investigationg. I have a strong feeling that somewhere in Patriotland, there is a vault full of videos of team signal, wiretaps of headset correspondence, bugs of locker rooms, and copies of other teams playbooks. The cheating must extend well beyond the evidence that the NFL currently has.

I'm sure Goodell, now that the ruling is made, wants the situation to go away. I would rather see a MLB- Mitchell investigation type of situation,

One last note, Billick needs to do a better job covering his mouth when calling plays. You could see almost everything he said on Monday. Someone with knowledge of the west-coast offense playbook would have no trouble lip-reading our plays.

[sailorsam]

I think taking a first round pick away is appropriately harsh, but I would like to have seen Belichick suspended for a game or more, just for the humilation factor. I'm not sure what fining these guys really accomplishes -- 500 large sounds impressive if he actually has to pay it, but if the team picks it up for him, it's nothing.


agree, agree, agree. that sort of $ means nothing to owners. it would be an outrage if the team/owner ends up paying his tab. you think any owner wouldn't pay 750k for 3 rings?

problem is, if the NFL punished them any more (I don't know if they legally could, by their own rules), there would be whispers of 'tainted', and the league canNOT afford any hints of that. just as other sports have 0 tolerance for gambline, must have same for this sort of cheating.