Who woulda "thunk": Billick OK with platooning QBs

[Mista T]

Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/24/AR2007092401826.html):


Billick Says He May Continue Platoon at QB
Boller's Play, McNair's Health Cited

By Camille Powell
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 25, 2007; Page E07

OWINGS MILLS, Md., Sept. 24 -- Kyle Boller's career as a Baltimore Ravens quarterback has taken several turns over the past five years, from first-round draft pick to oft-criticized starter to valued backup. Now, Boller appears to have a new role: late-game reliever.

One day after Boller replaced starter Steve McNair in the fourth quarter against the Arizona Cardinals and led the Ravens to a winning field goal, Coach Brian Billick said he has no qualms turning to Boller in late-game situations as McNair continues to recover from a strained groin.

There is no question McNair, who was injured in the season opener and missed the second game, is Baltimore's starting quarterback. But considering his age (34), the beating his body has taken over 13 NFL seasons, and the way Boller has performed this month, Billick said he would consider using a similar platoon even after McNair is healthy.

"It depends on the continuity of the team, what Steve's doing and, you know what?, I got the sense that Steve would be okay with that under the right circumstances," Billick said during his weekly news conference. "That's 20 fewer plays, five fewer hits, whatever it may be. There was a freshness to Steve's arm in the [Arizona] game, because of the week he had off previously. We're lucky to have that latitude with Kyle."

Boller showed signs of improvement during the final three games of the 2005 season, his last as a full-time starter, and was reliable as a backup last year. He's been poised and confident this season, nearly leading the Ravens to a last-minute comeback against the Bengals in the opener -- a potential game-tying touchdown pass to tight end Todd Heap was waved off because of a questionable penalty -- and then taking the Ravens past the Jets, 20-13. He is completing 64.7 percent of his passes, the best average of his career, and has thrown two touchdowns and one interception.

I've still got some doubts after that 4 turnover start, but ... if this approach works: great! Coaches bring in change of pace RBs -- why not change of pace QBs? McNair throwing short stuff, Boller going medium to long. The last time I remember a successful QB platoon approach was the Redskins of the early 70s (Kilmer & Jurgenson).

I have to hand it to Billick for imagination (although, to now reveal the truth: Greg & I gave Billick the exact same recommendation -- when we caught him walking over the Hamburg Street Bridge before an early '99 game -- about having Stoney Case come in as a closer for Tony Banks).

[TTRaven]

The problem is that both Mcnair and Boller throw the short passes. It's just the way the offense is. If you bring Kyle in to throw the medium and long passes, teams are going to catch on to what you're doing and it's not going to work. We're better off sticking with one QB IMO. Now who knows if that's Boller or Mcnair? Obviously Mcnair is not 100% healthy right now. As long as he keeps playing with this groin injury he will never be 100%. I say let Mcnair rest for at least this week. Give Kyle the start in Cleveland and go from there. I'm starting to think that this injury to Mcnair is going to stick around with him all season.

[purplepoe]

I really can't understand why people insist on this idea that the offense is all short passes with McNair and medium and long with Boller.

Newsflash.

We run the same offense with both QBs.

PP

[highwater]

I have to hand it to Billick for imagination (although, to now reveal the truth: Greg & I gave Billick the exact same recommendation -- when we caught him walking over the Hamburg Street Bridge before an early '99 game -- about having Stoney Case come in as a closer for Tony Banks).

I think one thing we can all agree on is that McNair/Boller is a better combination than Tony Banks and Stoney Case.

I'm not reallly crazy about the idea -- if McNair is still bothered by the groin, why play him at all? Give him time to heal if he needs it. And if he's healthy, I don't think pulling him out of the game if he's playing well is such a great idea.

[StingerNLG]

But considering his age (34), the beating his body has taken over 13 NFL seasons, and the way Boller has performed this month, Billick said he would consider using a similar platoon even after McNair is healthy.


Pay close attention to that statement. I very well could be way off base on this, but I am starting to believe more and more that something else is happening here. While some people said Boller resigned here because he'd never get signed elsewhere, I thought he signed here because he was told he'd get one more shot at the starting job because they thought they saw the improvement.

I think Billick wants to give Boller that chance to prove he can start, but do it in a very controlled environment. I really believe this team did not give up on Boller and what you're starting to see is Kyle being tested. Especially after the situation Sunday.

Again, I could be way off (and I'm sure the usual suspects will say so). But I am beginning to firmly believe my "turn back the clock" theory more and more.

[crazyraven]

I'm not big on the closer idea. this isnt baseball. Billick should stick with a starter, be it Boller or Mcnair because late in the year (and hopefully in the playoffs) we will need to have a qb who is ready to play from start to finish. Now if this method is going to be in effect for only a few weeks, then its brilliant because it keeps our qbs healthy and sharp but at some point at least one of them needs to have a few games under their belt when we get deeper into the season.

The main draw back to this closer idea is if Boller gets a nagging injury and he is hampered by it throughout the rest of the season, you put the team at risk. What if Boller gets a groin injury and he cant throw straight in a few games. In a way you're letting both of your QBs take shots when they shouldn't.


At this point Boller is able to start and be productive. There is no denying this. In his recents games his performance is making many forget his early problems. However At this point he is coming along so lets not ruin the maturity and continue to let Boller earn to learn. He can only get better, right?

As long as Steve Mcnair is still able to go, he should start. He's done nothing to lose his position. I tend to agree, this MFer is fragile, and I dont know how much longer he can hold up. We should ride him for as long as we can. When he is completely broke down, Then is the time Boller can come in and Shine.

[Losac]

Stupid idea. I'm sorry. Good teams have a field general at QB who can take charge, and who the rest of the offense knows is in charge. Switching up like that is just a lightning rod for controversy and locker room dissent. McNair is the starter, and nothing in his performance against the Cardinals should have changed that. He played fine (as did Boller).

But Billick needs to pick one or the other to start. This is ridiculous.

[UKRavenStockers]

Hey let's just throw Mark Clayton and Troy Smith into the backfield for some zone reads for shits and giggles. :D

[Galen Sevinne]

I don't think Billick nor many of us thought the Ravens defense would let Ariz. back in the game. Up 23-6, it made sense to rest McNair as he was limping (I could see that from the upperdeck) for the fourth qtr and give Boller some reps. What is Billick supposed to do when suddenly the Cards are back in the game? Take Boller out? This would create more controversy by suggesting that he doubts Boller's ability when in a critical situation. He was really in a "no win" situation here. I think he had to go with Boller and lucky for all involved Boller handled the situation. Now he has "inherited" a quarterback controversy but with two quarterbacks with about the same ability as far as winning games, how could he avoid it?

I imagine Billick is ripping Rex Ryan a new one at thia point for it was really the defense letting down that has caused this "controversy". If the defense continues to dominate and the Ravens win 23-6, no one would question Billick replacing McNair.

[GreenWave52]

If McNair wasn't healthy we shouldn't have played him in the first place. I know he is a warrior, but Kyle has been playing well lately and he tradionally plays well at home. There was no need to rush Steve back.

That said I am only ok with this platoon approach if we are winning handily, like we were in the last game. College teams often put in their younger players in these situation to get them experience and save their starters from needless hits.

Kyle is playing really really well right now, but I'm still so gun shy when he is in that I'm not ready to jump back on the bandwagon. I never really recovered from the roller coaster ride in 05 where he melted down in Denver, looked like Superman against Green Bay and Minny, and then laid an egg in Cleveland to end the season. I'm hardly a hater, and I really hope Kyle has turned the proverbial corner because it would be fantastic for this team. But like someone else said I don't want to rush Kyle back into a starting role until he has fully matured. Lets not mess this up twice.

[StingerNLG]

I don't think we have a QB controversy just yet. Steve McNair is the starter. As pointed out he hasn't done anything outside of injury to lose the starting job. And let's be real, McNair was sharp on Sunday. So I think that in the mind of Billick, McNair is still the starter.

I think all this looks to next year. Boller gets playing time to continue to mature his on-field presense, and it helps McNair stay fresh and healthy so that when the playoffs roll around, we can rely on him being good to go. And then next year the Ravens can revisit the Boller starting thing. And then maybe we don't have to draft another project QB.

I don't think it's a controversy. I think it's a luxury. We have two capable starting QB's what we can interchange when needed. 95% of the NFL doesn't have that right now. A couple of teams do, and we're one of them. But McNair is the starter, he should remain the starter. Period.

[purplepoe]

I don't think we have a QB controversy just yet. Steve McNair is the starter. As pointed out he hasn't done anything outside of injury to lose the starting job. And let's be real, McNair was sharp on Sunday. So I think that in the mind of Billick, McNair is still the starter.

I think all this looks to next year. Boller gets playing time to continue to mature his on-field presense, and it helps McNair stay fresh and healthy so that when the playoffs roll around, we can rely on him being good to go. And then next year the Ravens can revisit the Boller starting thing. And then maybe we don't have to draft another project QB.

I don't think it's a controversy. I think it's a luxury. We have two capable starting QB's what we can interchange when needed. 95% of the NFL doesn't have that right now. A couple of teams do, and we're one of them. But McNair is the starter, he should remain the starter. Period.

I agree 100%

We are focusing so much on this and meanwhile our defense has surrendered 2 big 4th quarter leads, AT HOME, in back to back games.

My worry lies there.

Not on the QB forum.

PP

[Baltoman07]

I agree with the last post. Boller is getting time to play so he'll be ready for next year. The Ravens are going to ride McNair this year. This might be McNairs last chance to get his ring. Let's all hope he does.

[StingerNLG]

I agree 100%

We are focusing so much on this and meanwhile our defense has surrendered 2 big 4th quarter leads, AT HOME, in back to back games.

My worry lies there.

Not on the QB forum.

PP



And while we need to fix our defense and QUICK...............

Isn't it nice to NOT have to worry about the offense for once in 7 years?

[MikeinGlennDale]

BB directed the team to a 13-3 season last year. He took the team to a Super Bowl.

Perhaps it is worth considering the head coach of the Baltimore Ravens has a better idea about the squad than we do.

(In the interest of full disclosure) I've often ranted about the horrible play of one "My man Kyle". At the same time I've always praised the fact that he has a great story and is a tough MF. Who among us doesn't want to see KB succeed?

I like KB better than Carr, Harrington, Lossman, Grossman...and drum roll please...KB is better than Leinart.

Is it possible that spending a year behind the clipboard was just what the doctor ordered? I vote YES!

It hasn't been so horrible this season. In fact this new concept of having a "closer", (if that is what we are observing) is innovative and interesting.

[Mista T]

Who among us doesn't want to see KB succeed?

Is that a serious question? :laugh:




In fact this new concept of having a "closer", (if that is what we are observing) is innovative and interesting.

Agree. In our circumstance: McNair is running out of gas. Assuming that his turnovers were an aberration and that he can help the team win some games -- if his life expectancy can be stretched out over a full 16 game season via platooning, then Billick's approach should pay off. In three games, it has worked, so why not 16 games?

In any event: if this succeeds, Billick should remember to credit me & Greg when he gets the Coach of the Year award.:laugh:

[MikeinGlennDale]

Is that a serious question? :laugh:

I love the KB story. I grew up in California and KB is loved out there.

I've railed against him in the past (rightfully so).

Today, I like what I see (rightfully so).

Football aside, KB is a great guy! Go get em Kyle!

[Art-Florida]

No, we don't have a QBC (quarterback controversya) yet, but I don't have to be Karnak to maybe, just maybe, see one forming on the horizon. Living in Florida means we watch little disturbances just forming very carefully. Sometimes they turn into hurricanes.

Good. So far the season and the team both have been a little boring. There's nothing like a rip-roaring QBC to get the emotions and blood stirring. <G>

[zippit52]

Hey, whatever wins games. Overall, I am noticing an improvement w/ the offense, regardless of the QB. I think that once this O line get a few more games under their belt togeather w/ Willis the running game will be top 10 by season's end. I think that they will gel into a better pass blocking unit as well helping McNair or Boller. With Clayton on the mend, once he returns to full health and gets up to speed our offense will be significantly better by December than it is now. Look at the progress we made last year over a short span of time.

My issue is the slippage of the Defense in the 4th quarter, if we can get that resolved. I think this team will set itself up for a DEEP playoff run....regardless of WHO they play!!!

[Losac]

BB directed the team to a 13-3 season last year. He took the team to a Super Bowl.

Perhaps it is worth considering the head coach of the Baltimore Ravens has a better idea about the squad than we do.


Right, because Billick has such a great track record for managing quarterbacks since 1999. :eyes:

Time for another "leap of faith"?

[ravenwoman]

I think one of the reasons Billick is doing this is to give KB some reps in the event McNair becomes seriously hurt during the season. If McNair played every minute of every game and got hurt badly, KB would be stone cold.

This way, he gets a little playing time, which builds confidence and adds to his experience level. Steve McNair is still the starter. Everyone knows it.

[festivus]

Steve McNair is the starter. Kyle Boller is the backup.

Questions about what might happen "if McNair is healthy" are kind of irrelevant, because McNair is not likely going to be "healthy" again all year, not 100%.

So it'll always be a BB judgment call, which is what it's been so far this year, and what it is on other teams too.

This is non-news, in my opinion. It is a nice attaboy for Boller, an acknowledgment that he's performed at that high level this year, but that's it.

[RAVENOUS52]

Platooning isn't t he long-term solution, but it sure is reaping dividends right now. Thus, no complaints here.

[HoustonRaven]

Platooning isn't t he long-term solution, but it sure is reaping dividends right now. Thus, no complaints here.

Amen!

I posted the message below in the PTI Topic thread but it applies here too ...

I think my post about self loathing Ravens fans is more true now than when I first posted it.

For those who think McNair is washed up, please go to nfl.com and see his stats and QB rating. Not his best, but certainly not "end of career" stats.

For those hating on Boller, please go to nfl.com and see his stats and QB rating. Starting to see my point?

We have two very good QB's -- one looking towards the future and one looking at the twilight. This is what some people call this a good problem to have. McBoller has been a good combo thus far.

Is that really such a bad position to be in?

[purplepoe]

Amen!

I posted the message below in the PTI Topic thread but it applies here too ...

I think my post about self loathing Ravens fans is more true now than when I first posted it.

For those who think McNair is washed up, please go to nfl.com and see his stats and QB rating. Not his best, but certainly not "end of career" stats.

For those hating on Boller, please go to nfl.com and see his stats and QB rating. Starting to see my point?

We have two very good QB's -- one looking towards the future and one looking at the twilight. This is what some people call this a good problem to have. McBoller has been a good combo thus far.

Is that really such a bad position to be in?

:grbac:

So because people disagree that platooning QBs in the NFL is a bad idea (and very rarely successful I might add) they are self loathing?

Do you think you've discovered something unique about this board?

I got news for you. This is what almost every sports message board is like. It's not about self loathing.

Really, get over it.


PP

[HoustonRaven]

:grbac:

So because people disagree that platooning QBs in the NFL is a bad idea (and very rarely successful I might add) they are self loathing?

Do you think you've discovered something unique about this board?

I got news for you. This is what almost every sports message board is like. It's not about self loathing.

Really, get over it.


PP

Rarely successful huh? And you base this on what? Just a few examples of platooning that creates a future starter (and there are more) ....

Joe Montana / Steve Young
Ty Detmer / Donovan McNabb
Doug Williams / Mark Rypien (and that pains me because I hate giving the skins props at all)

As for self-loathing ... well, since I never called you out by name but yet you responded ... that kind of speaks for itself. :rolling:

[purplepoe]

Rarely successful huh? And you base this on what? Just a few examples of platooning that creates a future starter (and there are more) ....

Joe Montana / Steve Young
Ty Detmer / Donovan McNabb
Doug Williams / Mark Rypien (and that pains me because I hate giving the skins props at all)

As for self-loathing ... well, since I never called you out by name but yet you responded ... that kind of speaks for itself. :rolling:

The fact that you think Montana and Young platooned pretty much shows your knowledge of that situation.

Your other examples weren't platooning. Detmer (and Doug Pederson) were crappy vets who the Eagles had playing in front of a rookie QB in McNabb who they didn't want to rush into action.

Please give me an example of an NFL team that used a real platoon system (not the examples that you provided which were not platooning situations) for the majority of a season. They are few and far between and certainly didn't win anything of note.


PP

[crazyraven]

I dont know how being a self loathing ravens fan became an issue or how anyone can determine that. What i do know is that platooning can be a receipe for disaster. Its simple put 2 qbs in harms way and both can get injured. I dont want this to happen.

PP is right, there aren't any good examples of platooning qbs who won anythng.

[HoustonRaven]

I dont know how being a self loathing ravens fan became an issue or how anyone can determine that. What i do know is that platooning can be a receipe for disaster. Its simple put 2 qbs in harms way and both can get injured. I dont want this to happen.

PP is right, there aren't any good examples of platooning qbs who won anythng.

Agreed but that wasnt my point.

My examples are very clear and accurate examples of times when an older QB and the young upstart QB shared time for a while with the hopes that one day the younger QB takes over.

Im NOT saying Boller will become a McNabb, Young or Montana. McNair was brought here to win games, but I guarantee BB has told McNair he will be Boller's mentor. Remember, BB put a LOT of time and energy into Boller. BB has a huge ego and NEEDS Boller to succeed.

I AM saying that "raising" a young QB by platooning does work and has a track record of success. A lot on the boards are saying it doesnt work but have yet to provide examples of how it didnt work.

I agree that platooning is not the best way to go. BUT, since we're doing it and we're 2-0 while doing it, why not play it out and see where it goes?

If BB blows it, I will be the first one to say so.

As for the self-loathing fans, they speak for themselves and you are most definitely NOT one of them. You speak with facts along with your passion. The SLF's speak with only emotion and its 99.9% negative about the team they supposidly love.

[festivus]

Stinky, I think McNair was told he was being brought here to win games. I am pretty sure I recall public statements to that effect at the time.

Undoubtedly it was *understood* that Boller would be able to learn from McNair, but I do not think McNair was told he was coming here to teach. That would have been insulting to someone who might feel he's perfectly capable of playing for a few more years.

Pardon me for quibbling, but it's a slow day at work. ;)

[HoustonRaven]

Stinky, I think McNair was told he was being brought here to win games. I am pretty sure I recall public statements to that effect at the time.

Undoubtedly it was *understood* that Boller would be able to learn from McNair, but I do not think McNair was told he was coming here to teach. That would have been insulting to someone who might feel he's perfectly capable of playing for a few more years.

Pardon me for quibbling, but it's a slow day at work. ;)

No need for pardons .... I enjoy the debate ...

And with respect, I think you're wrong. Here are some articles that talk about Mcnair's capacity as both winning QB and Boller mentor.

http://www.ravens24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=87&id=6&view=archive
http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/09/08/could-kyle-boller-eventually-replace-steve-mcnair/
http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/14111.html

[festivus]

I don't disagree Boller can and should learn from McNair every second he has that opportunity.

I'm just disagreeing with this:

I guarantee BB has told McNair he will be Boller's mentor.

I think McNair was specifically *not* told that, but rather told he is here to win football games. Any learning done by Boller is icing on the cake, and Boller's responsibility. That's all I was saying, and the articles you link to are consistent with that.

Again, it's just quibbling on a slow day, not a significant disagreement as I see it.

Thanks for the links.

[HoustonRaven]

I don't disagree Boller can and should learn from McNair every second he has that opportunity.

I'm just disagreeing with this:


I think McNair was specifically *not* told that, but rather told he is here to win football games. Any learning done by Boller is icing on the cake, and Boller's responsibility. That's all I was saying, and the articles you link to are consistent with that.

Again, it's just quibbling on a slow day, not a significant disagreement as I see it.

Thanks for the links.

Me too .... took a personal day due to a migraine and came here thinking it would relax me .... :insane: