Boller is Starting Sunday [Archive] - Baltimore Ravens Forums and Message Boards

RavensNTerps

10-12-2007, 11:33 PM

No, he doesn't.

He's clearly not stepping into this throws because he's not 100%.

But why would you know anything about that.

Your takes on this team are about as worthless as an Enron 401K.

PP

His passes look exactly how they looked last year, though. Seriously, go back and watch a game from last year, you'll see it.

I'm not a big stat guy, they don't measure everything...the whole lies, damned lies and statistics thing...but statistically he is better at this point than he was last year at this same point.

Furthermore, his throws floated and sailed high LAST year.

It's easy to forget how dreadful he was in certain games, because the team finished 13-3, but he was god awful against Oakland, Cleveland, and San Diego early on, looking a lot like he does now, and the team got away with it because of very fortunate plays by the defense, which isn't happening this year.

He had a nice drive at the end of Clev and SD last year, but he played like crap all game before that...and for the sake of apples to apples, he actually probably played better in Cleveland this year than he did last year. Remember, it took a matt stover 54 yarder to win that game.

McNair acted as a caretaker last year, which was fine because the defense was literally dominant. Now that the D doesn't dominate, they're just plain good (again, not a bad thing, but they are a step down from last year, as to be expected), you need the QB to actually make plays. McNair didn't do it early on last year, and he hasn't done it early on this year.

Seriously, though...go back and watch one of those 3 games (Browns, Chargers, Raiders) from last year and tell me he doesn't look the same... the groin thing is blown way out of proportion.

CrowMST3k

10-13-2007, 01:32 AM

If Boller routs the Rams, it could be cool to see if Troy Smith could catch a few plays in a mop-up roll.

Mista T

10-13-2007, 07:37 AM

I am anxiously awaiting the return to the Ravens playbook of the medium to long pass! :laugh:

His passes look exactly how they looked last year, though. Seriously, go back and watch a game from last year, you'll see it.

..... Furthermore, his throws floated and sailed high LAST year.

:iagree:

While that's accurate, McNair has nonetheless declined even further this season. Last season, he did have a few completions for long gains -- Pittsburgh & KC come to mind -- while this season he has nothing but short stuff. Also, this season he already has 6 turnovers in 4 games.

Purpleguy

10-13-2007, 09:06 AM

He didn't look quite this bad last year. He was able to hit on more intermediatte passes and his long ball was much more accurate last season. I do, however, feel this groin injury is being blown way out of proportion. I think he's just tired and washed up, and has been since the end of last season. He shows no enthusiasm at all. I know he's always been calm and collected, but with TN he had some enthusiasm and urgency in the huddle. We played him many times and he showed it. Now he just moseys out on the field, moseys up to the line and if we're lucky he'll get the checkdown play off before the playclock expires. Maybe his eyesight is as shot as the rest of his body because I have horid vision and I can see the playclock from anywhere in the stadium.

Here's hoping Boller can add a spark and maybe make this team one of the elite teams we thought they would be. Kyle has looked good in his limited time the past two seasons. This week he got some reps with the first team during practice. That should help.

Greg

10-13-2007, 09:14 AM

why do you say that? he looks the same as last year at this point...
I have been quite vocal in my criticism of McNair this season, he is no where near where he was last season. He was throwing the ball in the middle range (15-25 yards) a lot last year, something we rarely have seen the last few games if at all this season. No, he didn't have the zip Boller does last year or maybe ever, but he was competent in that range, he isn't at all this year.

If he gets his groin and back straightened out he will probably be capable to good again. And I bet his groin and how he was throwing to protect it is what led to his back problems. This is why he needed to sit.

RavensNTerps

10-13-2007, 09:30 AM

I have been quite vocal in my criticism of McNair this season, he is no where near where he was last season. He was throwing the ball in the middle range (15-25 yards) a lot last year, something we rarely have seen the last few games if at all this season. No, he didn't have the zip Boller does last year or maybe ever, but he was competent in that range, he isn't at all this year.

If he gets his groin and back straightened out he will probably be capable to good again. And I bet his groin and how he was throwing to protect it is what led to his back problems. This is why he needed to sit.

All of this is true...but not in his first 4 starts. Actually, not until after the bye week.

17/27 181 against Tampa
16/33 143 against Oakland (his long in this game, 30 yards, was a dump off to Musa).
23/41 261 against Cleveland
17/30 158 against San Diego

The next two were Carolina, which he didn't play, and Denver, which...well...I'll just leave that one out.

The point being...our passing game didn't really open up until about week 9 last year, for whatever reason. Yes, he completed long passes...against Pitt, Tennessee, and Kansas City.

No, he never really threw down field early on, though. His YPA is actually higher this year than it was at this point last season.

If you want to blame the play on a slow start, fine. I choose to blame it on the fact that he really only had 4 pretty good games all season last year, and a bunch that were just...not bad, which is all we needed.

At this point...he is what he is. As the season rolls on, he may just be what we need. Right now, it doesn't look that way...he is very limited...

Rayvens52

10-13-2007, 09:43 AM

You are right is YPA is higher because we have no problem moving the ball between the 20's, but that is not the point and that stat really doesn't matter, the only stat the really matters is redzone score which inturn result in wins. Mcnair is a good QB when he is healthy, but until then Boller is the better option to get us in the endzone, which will help us win and not win 9-7

StingerNLG

10-13-2007, 09:55 AM

Look, I think McNair's days as an upper echelon QB are done. It just happens when you get "old" in the NFL. I dont look at it as a knock on McNair's past or what he used to be able to do. He just can't do it anymore. News Flash: it happens to everyone.......apparently except Brett Favre.

That said, I'm containing my excitement until I see D-Will fly down the sideline and catch a 40 yard pass. I'll wait until I see Heap or Mason in the back of the endzone catch a touchdown. THEN I'll be excited.

Rayvens52

10-13-2007, 10:00 AM

Stinger I couldn't agree with you more, Mcnair was great in Tenn, and he could still be real good if he just rests and gets healthy. If he just sits the next 2 weeks and the bye he could be completly ready to go against Pitt, and we need a healthy QB for that game as it is always a dog fight

Jggjaron

10-13-2007, 10:19 AM

Good to see boller getting in there again I think he has the better arm hopefully they use it

RavenTD

10-13-2007, 10:20 AM

Whatever gives this team the best chance to win,I go with.

And right now I say Boller gives the passing game a bit more zip and aggressiveness downfield.That's if the offense is set up to take advantage of this.

With the amount of damage McNairs body has taken,I can understand why he is degrading.Throw in the groin and lower back pain,and Steve has to suck up his pride,and see that sitting on the bench is the best for the team right now.

meangene55

10-13-2007, 10:45 AM

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

:rocking: GO KB !!! :rocking:

:taz:

purplepoe

10-13-2007, 12:05 PM

All of this is true...but not in his first 4 starts. Actually, not until after the bye week.

17/27 181 against Tampa
16/33 143 against Oakland (his long in this game, 30 yards, was a dump off to Musa).
23/41 261 against Cleveland
17/30 158 against San Diego

The next two were Carolina, which he didn't play, and Denver, which...well...I'll just leave that one out.

The point being...our passing game didn't really open up until about week 9 last year, for whatever reason. Yes, he completed long passes...against Pitt, Tennessee, and Kansas City.

No, he never really threw down field early on, though. His YPA is actually higher this year than it was at this point last season.

If you want to blame the play on a slow start, fine. I choose to blame it on the fact that he really only had 4 pretty good games all season last year, and a bunch that were just...not bad, which is all we needed.

At this point...he is what he is. As the season rolls on, he may just be what we need. Right now, it doesn't look that way...he is very limited...

Dude, take your blinders off.

We're talking about the way he looks on the field.

It's not about the stats, it's about looking at a guy who doesn't look the same as he did last year.

He's CLEARLY not 100% and it's easy to see.

PP

skimmy

10-13-2007, 12:22 PM

His passes look exactly how they looked last year, though. Seriously, go back and watch a game from last year, you'll see it.

I'll agree that the velocity and direction (checkdowns) of his passes are pretty much the same, but his accuracy is not. He is sailing, underthrowing and late on too many of his passes. His injury may only cause him to be off on 3-7 passes, but that is still too much when you factor in other incidental offensive issues. Even the passes that he completes are affected, if he could get it there a split second faster or in a better spot the receiver might be able to do more with it after he catches it. Considering that they play a short passing game that constantly just takes what the defense allows they have to consistently continue to move the ball or they get into bad down and distance situations that the offense isn't able to convert.

Good Luck to Boller, hopefully he'll play well this week and also get the start next week. I don't want there to be a controversy with Boller and McNair, because we will need McNair at the helm for those big games down the stretch but we also need him to be healthy for those games.

highwater

10-13-2007, 12:51 PM

On the issue of whether or not McNair looks the same as last season, I don't think so, but I don't know if that's because he's not healthy or if it's because he's just wearing down. That's an important difference, because if it's because he's injured, then he could presumably return to some semblance of his old form if he gets healthy. If he's just losing it due to wear and tear, then returning to his old self is pretty much not going to happen.

And while I hope Boller starts Sunday, I'm not taking it for granted. It would not shock me if McNair starts, even after missing two practices.

Rayvens52

10-13-2007, 02:17 PM

But Mcnair's "wear and tear" is directly related to the amount of injuries he has had over the last 8 or 9 years. When we signed him he was not the same QB we were used to seeing on the field. He will NEVER be the same. He was not the greatest QB we have ever seen last year, to be honest it was like watching Dilfer out there, it was a vet who knew how to manage the game. The Air Mcnair we were hoping to get died years ago when he sustained his 101st injury. I really hope that Mcnair has helped Boller enough to make him a decent QB now, because all he really needed was a true vet to teach him and that is why we really signed Mcnair.

ramair31

10-13-2007, 03:48 PM

I can't wait to read what the media and you all write about if Kyle plays. Whether he does terribly or has a great game it's certainly going to cause some kind of chatter. We just need to accept that we will always have a QB controversy while Billick is the coach.

flraven

10-13-2007, 03:54 PM

Like what was mentioned on the other board, this board will explode as well regardless of the kind of game Boller has.

Here's to hoping its a good one!! :)

Rayvens52

10-13-2007, 04:25 PM

[QUOTE=ramair We just need to accept that we will always have a QB controversy while Billick is the coach.[/QUOTE]

You could not have said it any better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Greg

10-13-2007, 06:57 PM

We just need to accept that we will always have a QB controversy while Billick is the coach.
Yes, everybody knows Baltimore is the only city that has QB issues so it must be Billick's fault.

Rayvens52

10-13-2007, 07:21 PM

Greg, we all know that other teams have QB issues some teams have them longer than others, but with Billick please tell me the last time he was able to make a QB even worth watching. Maybe it is not just Billick, maybe we toss Ozzy and some scouts in the mix, but we have had some good QB's come through this system here in Bmore and not 1 of them has had success, and when I say that I mean being a top 10 or even 15 QB overall. If you are not tired of this same old BS each year let me know what your secret is. Also do me a favor and look over the last 6 or 7 drafts and the QB's we have passed over who are doing what all of fans hope to see one day, and then you can let me know who I can blame, but I'm going to blame somebody!

Big Bird

10-13-2007, 07:33 PM

Glad we still have Kyle Man around. Who knows? He may have gained a lot of understanding from watching a vet QB over the past year or so. Don't forget, he was thrown into action in his rookie year without ANY pro-training or preparation. It is a different game than college.

It'll be interesting to see how he does against a weak team. JEEZ, if the Ravens lose this thing, it'll stink.

I get to go tomorrow cause I'm up from Fla for the past 10 days. Upper deck, visitors side Row 17 with my son:)

:usa: ....

Greg

10-13-2007, 07:34 PM

Greg, we all know that other teams have QB issues some teams have them longer than others, but with Billick please tell me the last time he was able to make a QB even worth watching.
Randall Cunningham, who looked his best ever under Billick in Minny. Now that I answered yours, answer one for me, please. Tell me who he has had here we missed on?

RavensNTerps

10-13-2007, 09:00 PM

One more thing:

I actually think McNair has looked pretty good at points this season, including most of the Bengals game and all of the Cardinals game. His struggles are, indeed, overblown by the fact that he was dreadful against Cleveland and San Fran.

Like I said, he really looks no different this year than last, but the standings show otherwise....

The QB (and the head coach, too) get too much credit when you win, too much blame when you lose.

Mista T

10-13-2007, 09:21 PM

I actually think McNair has looked pretty good at points this season, including most of the Bengals game

:187734:

:229031_confused2: :229031_confused2: :229031_confused2: :229031_confused2: :229031_confused2: :229031_confused2:

The Bengals game? Of the 2007 season? The game where McNair had 5 turnovers? That had to be the worst performance by a QB in the Ravens' 12 year history -- easily, and the worst performance in McNair's career.

RavensDomination

10-13-2007, 09:36 PM

Randall Cunningham, who looked his best ever under Billick in Minny. Now that I answered yours, answer one for me, please. Tell me who he has had here we missed on?

Don't you realize - when a player is good it's all Ozzie, when a player is bad it's all Billick. The way of the Billick hater, rule #1.

purplepoe

10-13-2007, 09:58 PM

Don't you realize - when a player is good it's all Ozzie, when a player is bad it's all Billick. The way of the Billick hater, rule #1.

This is so true.

PP

RavensNTerps

10-13-2007, 10:00 PM

:187734:

:229031_confused2: :229031_confused2: :229031_confused2: :229031_confused2: :229031_confused2: :229031_confused2:

The Bengals game? Of the 2007 season? The game where McNair had 5 turnovers? That had to be the worst performance by a QB in the Ravens' 12 year history -- easily, and the worst performance in McNair's career.

Untrue. He moved the ball quite effectively AND moved the ball downfield pretty well.

Not all of the turnovers were necessarily his fault either.

If you think that was the worst performance by a Ravens QB, you have a very, very short memory.

I'm hardly a huge McNair guy, I definitely think Boller gives us the best shot at winning, but the people blaming the groin for his so-called lack of performance baffle me, because, IMO, he looks like the same exact guy from last year, minus the help from the defense who were scoring as much points as the offense at this point last year.

purplepoe

10-13-2007, 10:07 PM

Untrue. He moved the ball quite effectively AND moved the ball downfield pretty well.

Not all of the turnovers were necessarily his fault either.

If you think that was the worst performance by a Ravens QB, you have a very, very short memory.

I'm hardly a huge McNair guy, I definitely think Boller gives us the best shot at winning, but the people blaming the groin for his so-called lack of performance baffle me, because, IMO, he looks like the same exact guy from last year, minus the help from the defense who were scoring as much points as the offense at this point last year.

Good lord you are all over the place.

McNair played like crap in Cincy. He is not scoring TDs for this team and it's a huge problem.

McNair is also not 100% and it's clear as day. He's not stepping into his throws. He's basically throwing flat footed. Im sorry if you don't see it. Im beginning to think you just refuse to admit it.

He's not the same as last year. Period.

PP

RavensNTerps

10-13-2007, 10:11 PM

This is so true.

PP

Of course. Just like you know we will see one of these comments from somebody this week after the game:

1) Billick's ego kept him from starting Boller all along. We'd probably be 6-0 if his ego hadn't gotten in the way and he had put Boller in to start with.

2) McNair was actually healthy. Billick's ego made him want to prove that his pet project, Boller, could be a decent QB, and he should have started McNair, but his ego got in the way.

3) Billick didn't run enough.

4) Why didn't Billick throw a pass in that situation?

(3 & 4 are usually uttered together).

The bottom line...McNair isn't as bad as you all think, nor is Boller as good as you all think he will be, though, anyone with half a brain can see that he has a much higher UPSIDE at this point in time.

Billick is also a pretty damn good head coach.

RavensNTerps

10-13-2007, 10:14 PM

Good lord you are all over the place.

McNair played like crap in Cincy. He is not scoring TDs for this team and it's a huge problem.

McNair is also not 100% and it's clear as day. He's not stepping into his throws. He's basically throwing flat footed. Im sorry if you don't see it. Im beginning to think you just refuse to admit it.

He's not the same as last year. Period.

PP

It's not that I refuse to admit it, it's just that he did all of those things regularly LAST year also...we just forget about them because they were so long ago, and most of the time (13 out of 17 games) we came out on top.

Let's put it this way...I didn't see anyone complaining that he wasn't "stepping in to his throws" against Arizona, yet, he was throwing the same way. No one steps in to their throws in the face of a monster pass rush.

I really think you should watch a replay or a tivoed version of the Raiders game last year (or for that matter, the Colts, Broncos, Chargers or Browns games). You will see all of the same things that you comment on now.

He throws off his back foot a lot. He holds on to the ball for a long time waiting for something to open up. He's more than willing to throw to the safety valve. When he stands back there, sometimes he does throw flat footed and sometimes he doesn't step in to his throws. It's how he was all of last year, and, to be quite honest, how he was most of his career. Problem is now, there's just a lot of throws he can't make.

And it's not because of his groin.

purplepoe

10-13-2007, 10:19 PM

It's not that I refuse to admit it, it's just that he did all of those things regularly LAST year also...we just forget about them because they were so long ago, and most of the time (13 out of 17 games) we came out on top.

Let's put it this way...I didn't see anyone complaining that he wasn't "stepping in to his throws" against Arizona, yet, he was throwing the same way. No one steps in to their throws in the face of a monster pass rush.

I really think you should watch a replay or a tivoed version of the Raiders game last year (or for that matter, the Colts, Broncos, Chargers or Browns games). You will see all of the same things that you comment on now.

He throws off his back foot a lot. He holds on to the ball for a long time waiting for something to open up. He's more than willing to throw to the safety valve. When he stands back there, sometimes he does throw flat footed and sometimes he doesn't step in to his throws. It's how he was all of last year, and, to be quite honest, how he was most of his career. Problem is now, there's just a lot of throws he can't make.

And it's not because of his groin.

Sigh.

OK man.

This obviously isn't going anywhere.

You think he's healthy. I don't.

Im just gonna leave it at that.

PP

RavensNTerps

10-13-2007, 10:25 PM

Sigh.

OK man.

This obviously isn't going anywhere.

You think he's healthy. I don't.

Im just gonna leave it at that.

PP

I know you argue with me a lot, but I actually think you are one of the most even headed and knowledgeable posters out here...a breath of fresh air from all the trigger happy morons who have no clue how the game or the business of NFL football works.

But I really wish that sometime you would sit down with me and watch a replay of any one of those games that I listed, you'll see, this is just how McNair is (or at least was last year).

To clarify what I meant about the Cincy game...from a turnover perspective, he played poorly, but that had nothing to do with the groin injury, IMO. He was stepping in to his throws and was as authoritative as I'd seen him (until the last INT that bounced off Mason, but that also easily could have been a reception or a plain incompletion) in a Ravens uniform. I was actually watching the game and pleasantly surprised by how he looked, because, to be honest, I expected to see him play the way he played in Clev. and San Fran, since that was how he had played most of last year.

Mista T

10-13-2007, 10:38 PM

Not all of the turnovers were necessarily his fault either.

:grbac: Of course! let's blame Billick ... or Boller.

If you think that was the worst performance by a Ravens QB, you have a very, very short memory.

Oh really? Please refresh our memories: which other Ravens QB had 5 turnovers in a game, most of which led to opponent scores?

RavensNTerps

10-13-2007, 10:46 PM

:grbac: Of course! let's blame Billick ... or Boller.

Oh really? Please refresh our memories: which other Ravens QB had 5 turnovers in a game, most of which led to opponent scores?

Who cares? Just because he had the turnovers doesn't mean it was a terrible game by him. Let's review the Ravens turnovers that game that were fluke-y and unlikely to happen on a normal basis:

1) Missed hand off between McGahee and McNair...hasn't happened again.

2) Rookie fullback fumbles on the next possession.

3) Ball bounces off of Mason and is intercepted. At the very worst, that's normally an incompletion or at LEAST the defender is touched down by contact 40 yards further back, which would have made a world of difference.

4) BOLLER'S pass is bounced off of Heap's chest and intercepted by a lineman.

McNair had 1 bad interception and a pretty bad fumble, but those things happen from time to time. I'm not a McNair apologist, either.

Let's put it this way, we were a bad call away from having that game go to overtime. If we won the game you wouldn't be saying it was the worst QB performance in Ravens history, which is pure idiocy when you think about some of the clowns that played QB for us...Zeier, Case, Wright, and Redman (his game in St. Louis I think takes the cake, if not Case's Thurs night game against KC).

I would go as far to say that not only was it not even close to being the worst Ravens QB performance ever, but it wasn't even McNair's worst performance AS a Raven...

Do you think Tony Romo's performance on Mon night was the worst QB performance in Cowboys history? After all, he had SIX turnovers, almost all of which lead to points for the bills.

Dade

10-14-2007, 07:20 AM

His passes look exactly how they looked last year, though. Seriously, go back and watch a game from last year, you'll see it.

I'm not a big stat guy, they don't measure everything...the whole lies, damned lies and statistics thing...but statistically he is better at this point than he was last year at this same point.

Furthermore, his throws floated and sailed high LAST year.

It's easy to forget how dreadful he was in certain games, because the team finished 13-3, but he was god awful against Oakland, Cleveland, and San Diego early on, looking a lot like he does now, and the team got away with it because of very fortunate plays by the defense, which isn't happening this year.

He had a nice drive at the end of Clev and SD last year, but he played like crap all game before that...and for the sake of apples to apples, he actually probably played better in Cleveland this year than he did last year. Remember, it took a matt stover 54 yarder to win that game.

McNair acted as a caretaker last year, which was fine because the defense was literally dominant. Now that the D doesn't dominate, they're just plain good (again, not a bad thing, but they are a step down from last year, as to be expected), you need the QB to actually make plays. McNair didn't do it early on last year, and he hasn't done it early on this year.

Seriously, though...go back and watch one of those 3 games (Browns, Chargers, Raiders) from last year and tell me he doesn't look the same... the groin thing is blown way out of proportion.

I dont completely agree with you. I think the difference this year is when he is bad. In the redzone and at the end of the 2nd and 4th. Last year he was more of a game manager. He didn't put the defense in bad situations. Part of the reason I think our defense is only good this year.

This year he has been down right terrible. I can only think of three drives this year where he played at the "standard" level.

Going with Boller Sunday is the smart choice. McNair is not 100% and its affecting his play.

Rochardrik

10-15-2007, 08:35 AM