If McNair played the whole game today...

[Ravenatic20]

Would we have won the game? Discuss.

[Merlin]

who knows?

but Boller opened it up

for all the Boller bashers people should look over to Chicago at Grossman.
Same position in the draft , lots of bashers and hand wringing (though not as many games played) ; now lighting it up

still think that McNair should start but I have faith in Kyle -- if we let him go predict that he will start and do well for another team -- one that doesn't try to manage the game but rather let him rip . . .

[Mobtown]

No way. The D cost us the game today, not the O.

[darb72]

We had three TDs from the passing game regardless of how they came about. I don't think McNair could do any better because quite honestly, he hasn't yet.

[Mobtown]

We had three TDs from the passing game regardless of how they came about. I don't think McNair could do any better because quite honestly, he hasn't yet.


Two of those were complete and total flukes. Boller should absolutely NOT get credit for those passes.

[Brandon]

I chose no, based on how he was playing beforehand, and the fact that Samari Rolle sucked today

[StingerNLG]

Our defense cost us this game. That last pass to Smith was horrendous!! He was so open I could have thrown him the ball.

And Mob, you can say what you want about the fluke TD's. They were. But I don't want to hear anyone ever again say the offense won't play for Boller, because other than the OL who can't play for anyone, Clayton went balls out today. And at least Boller was moving the chains. We haven't seen that in a couple of weeks from our offense.

Another reason we won't win games like this:

J. Lewis 9 carries 41 yards. On one drive when we could have been in FG range, Jamal runs for a NEGATIVE 6 YARDS!!! Any chance we can finally put Jamal on the bench?

[Mobtown]

And Mob, you can say what you want about the fluke TD's. They were. But I don't want to hear anyone ever again say the offense won't play for Boller, because other than the OL who can't play for anyone, Clayton went balls out today. And at least Boller was moving the chains. We haven't seen that in a couple of weeks from our offense.

Yes, Boller moved the chains and it is obvious that the O play didn't drop off when he came in. I will give him and them tons of credit for that...

But this team still cannot finish drives, and this team still sucks on 3rd down.




J. Lewis 9 carries 41 yards. On one drive when we could have been in FG range, Jamal runs for a NEGATIVE 6 YARDS!!! Any chance we can finally put Jamal on the bench?

I thought he was having a decent game. Why we pulled him in the second half makes no sense to me. 4.6 ypc is a nice game...

[RavenTD]

No way,Steve McNair is sleep walking compared how the offense opened up when Kyle came in.

[StingerNLG]

\But this team still cannot finish drives, and this team still sucks on 3rd down.

Absolutely. I'm not going to even begin to pretend Boller was perfect. And I'm not going to jump on the "Start Boller" bandwagon, because that doesn't solve the problem with McNair. We need to see if McNair can get himself into gear, and then I'll move that way. But I will say Boller was better than I expected him to be coming off the bench cold. Got his usual fumble out of the way, and then went to work (during the defensive series I watched him. He actually grabbed Flynn and made him snap the ball to him on the sidelines until he got the ball back). But he got no help from the running game either, which is par for the course on this team.

My point was merely that for the first time in a couple of weeks, I saw the offense actually play with some energy. I think we can agree minus the INT he was making some pretty good decisions, something he's usually blasted for. And there were some dynamite throws he made. There was one well-defended bomb to the endzone that was dead on perfectly thrown, but the Panthers made a good play. And for the fans part, the people on our side of the field were actually chanting Boller's name to try and get him some confidence. They actually cheered for him.

Two other things blaringly obvious sitting up in 515 today:

1) Receivers were NOT getting open today. Mason can bitch all he wants, but he was blanketed today. Boller made some great throws to open receivers today, but it was few and far between. He overthrew Heap on a corner route that at first looked simply overthrown, but looking down at Heap he had a defender right on his back looking for the ball. And that leads me to:

2) The f'ing offensive f'ing line. Add Steve McNair to the OL casualty list. And judging by the first series where on a Boller run he had to first DUCK an oncoming linemen, that was business as usual for our OL. Something has to change there, or McNair will be coming back to get knocked right back out again.

[Mista T]

I like seeing balls passed with zip and points scored. It was obvious how much younger and spry Boller is than Mcnair. Too bad the pass defense blew it.

New Orleans is likely to be a shootout. The only chance I see for us is if McNair stays on the bench.

[Greg]

The only good TD pass he had was to Heap.
Oh bullcrap. The second tip in the middle of the field was blind luck, but the first one was a very well thrown ball the defender made an excellent play on. We got lucky as a team, but Boller threw a good ball.

He made some very good throws today and if he didn't have the rust and limited snaps during the week I wonder...

There is no question Boller has a shit-load more arm than McNair, and that counts for something. Boller can force the defense back, McNair can't.

[Heap86]

I like seeing balls passed with zip and points scored

Zip doesn't mean much if you can't get the ball were it is supposed to go, and once again Boller had some big time overthrows.

The thing is that Boller has Zip and the arm, but where the ball goes, who knows.

Boller had a good game, but don't act like it was all his doing.

McNair has been bailed out several times this year, but Boller was bailed out big time.

McNair has had tons of critics this year, where are all of the Boller critics?

[StingerNLG]

Zip doesn't mean much if you can't get the ball were it is supposed to go, and once again Boller had some big time overthrows.

The thing is that Boller has Zip and the arm, but where the ball goes, who knows.


Which ones were these? The one that hit Clayton in the hands or the one that hit Heap in the hands? I'm not saying Boller didn't overthrow anyone, because he did. But for the MOST part today his passes were hitting receivers in stride and with purpose. You don't convert 3rd and long multiple times that way. He made some dynamite throws today that quite simply we have not seen Steve McNair make since Tampa Bay.

[StingerNLG]

BTW, interesting to read that Boller also didn't take a single snap with the 1st team this week, according to Jamison Hensley. So if he came in 100% cold like that and overthrew a receiver once or twice, considering some of the nice throws he DID make today; I'll take that over McNair throwing 6 interceptions in 61 passes any day.

That said, and something that I need to be clear on. I'm not for pulling McNair at this point. He's got to improve with this offense or else much as many people think we wasted a draft pick on Boller, we will have wasted a signing bonus we could have used to lure someone like a LeCharles Bentley or such. If he's healthy, he's got to play against NO.

[Heap86]

Which ones were these? The one that hit Clayton in the hands or the one that hit Heap in the hands? I'm not saying Boller didn't overthrow anyone, because he did. But for the MOST part today his passes were hitting receivers in stride and with purpose. You don't convert 3rd and long multiple times that way. He made some dynamite throws today that quite simply we have not seen Steve McNair make since Tampa Bay.

Some of his passes hit recievers in stride, I would say probably as many as McNair's have. Boller still had problems with accuracy. Those tips that Clayton caught should not have been tipped in the first place. The first tipped up pass to Mason looked like it was off his helmet, and the second basically ended up being a jump ball that Clayton found and took to the house. Boller had some luck with his passes, but overall he was no more accurate than McNair has been.

The only real difference between McNair and Boller were the deeper passes, and Boller only managed to complete one to Williams and the other was the "right place at the right time" TD to Clayton. Boller is still very inaccurate with his Deep passes, which makes his big arm useless.

Overall Boller managed to move the ball and score 3 TD's, it was our Defense that decided to take the afternoon off.


BTW, interesting to read that Boller also didn't take a single snap with the 1st team this week, according to Jamison Hensley. So if he came in 100% cold like that and overthrew a receiver once or twice, considering some of the nice throws he DID make today; I'll take that over McNair throwing 6 interceptions in 61 passes any day.


Boller has had 30+ starts with our 1st team, McNair has had 5, I would definatly expect Boller to have more experiance with them. Boller hasn't been a back-up for that long.

[Greg]

So you have McNair not able to throw a deep ball and Boller not able to put it out there on the money. Six of one and half dozen of the other. Equally bad if you ask me. So what is your point again?
Uh, well, because the defense has to respect that he can make that throw, they have to actually cover back there, like they were today when we actually took shots deep. That's how you get the 8th and 9th guy out of the box.

I'm not for pulling McNair, yet. But fact is Boller's play today was the best we have seen over 3 consecutive quarters.

[Art-Florida]

Wow, I'm loving this ignore feature. One down and one on the cusp.

[Heap86]

Wow, I'm loving this ignore feature. One down and one on the cusp.

Ignoring all of the people that disagree with you?

Whatever floats your boat.

This is a Quarterback discussion forum.

Why even come to this forum?

[StingerNLG]

Boller has had 30+ starts with our 1st team, McNair has had 5, I would definatly expect Boller to have more experiance with them. Boller hasn't been a back-up for that long.


Sorry, I still don't buy that. McNair had 10 years with Derrick Mason. The whole story coming in was that Mason knows how McNair throws, and McNair knows how Mason likes to run. And that still doesn't explain the constant underthrowing. When you don't know the system, you throw to the inside when the receiver runs out. You don't underthrow a fade in the endzone, or hit an opposing player in the chest with the ball. That's the difference.


Some of his passes hit recievers in stride, I would say probably as many as McNair's have

At this point, I would say more. Receivers have not been getting nearly the YAC on Steve's throws as they did in Tampa Bay. Mostly because he's been underthrowing them. But a lot of receivers have had to stop to catch the ball lately.


The first tipped up pass to Mason looked like it was off his helmet,

From up in the stands it looked like just a well defended play. I'll have to see it again when the Sunday Ticket game hits my TiVo. The second tip was absolute luck, no doubt.



Boller had some luck with his passes, but overall he was no more accurate than McNair has been.

Going back and watching the last 2-3 games tonight (because the Sunday Night game was a laugher), I can simply not agree with that. With the exception of the INT, and a bad pass to Musa Smith, Boller's short and intermediate passes were much more accurate than McNair has thrown lately. And if you look at the 3rd down conversions and the YAC the receivers were getting today, that can be backed up:

2-10-BAL27 (13:24) K.Boller pass short right to M.Clayton to BLT 41 for 14 yards

2-4-BAL47 (12:35) K.Boller pass short right to D.Wilcox to CAR 46 for 7 yards

3-10-CAR46 (11:44) (Shotgun) K.Boller pass short right to T.Heap to CAR 37 for 9 yards

3-9-CAR33 (10:03) (Shotgun) K.Boller pass short right to D.Wilcox to CAR 23 for 10 yards

1-10-BAL34 (12:18) K.Boller pass short left to J.Green pushed ob at BLT 46 for 12 yards

3-4-CAR48 (10:32) (Shotgun) K.Boller pass short middle to T.Heap to CAR 33 for 15 yards

1-10-BAL43 (3:06) (No Huddle) K.Boller pass short left to T.Heap to CAR 42 for 15 yards

Most all of those throws hit their receivers in stride. Those are not throws we've seen McNair make consistently over the last 4 weeks. They just aren't.

But again, also not shabby for not even taking a snap in practice with them all week.

[Heap86]

Most all of those throws hit their receivers in stride. Those are not throws we've seen McNair make consistently over the last 4 weeks. They just aren't.

Go back and watch the other 5 games, you will find them. Alot of them were in the final drives of the Cleveland and San Diego games.


Sorry, I still don't buy that. McNair had 10 years with Derrick Mason. The whole story coming in was that Mason knows how McNair throws, and McNair knows how Mason likes to run. And that still doesn't explain the constant underthrowing. When you don't know the system, you throw to the inside when the receiver runs out. You don't underthrow a fade in the endzone, or hit an opposing player in the chest with the ball. That's the difference.


It doesn't matter if McNair played 20 or 30 years with Mason, Its a different playbook, which means different routes. You have to know where the guy is going to be. NFL Analysts have pointed that out on several occasions, not many NFL QB's thrive on new teams immediatly after spending many years with another.

Mark Brunell, Kurt Warner, Jake Plummer etc. all of these guys took time before they performed at a high level on there new teams.

I will give McNair a full year before I make final judgement on him.

[crowdog89]

Mark Brunell, Kurt Warner, Jake Plummer etc. all of these guys took time before they performed at a high level on there new teams.

Of the three that you mentioned one has been benched twice for rookies with two different teams, and is contemplating retiring at the end of the season....one had a horendous first season with his third team(the Jags was his second as he started out as a Packer), a decent 2nd season and now in his 3rd, the talk is of benching him again. Only Plummer would be considered as performing at a "high level"...and then only marginally.

[FadeToBlack]

Boller gave us a spark today McNair hasn't given us.

Having said that, if we could simulate the Ravens with McNair as the starter play against themselves with Boller as the starter, I wouldn't trust Boller to come out ahead at the end.

[StingerNLG]

Go back and watch the other 5 games, you will find them. Alot of them were in the final drives of the Cleveland and San Diego games.

I have been. Even Todd Heap's TD vs. San Diego wasn't a stride catch. Heap had to fight for the end zone. When McNair wasn't making receivers slow down or stop altogether, he underthrew. Like I said, I've been sitting here watching them as I play around on the forums tonight. Thankfully I have them all in 30 minute clips. :)



It doesn't matter if McNair played 20 or 30 years with Mason, Its a different playbook, which means different routes. You have to know where the guy is going to be.

But again, we're not talking about that. We're talking about innacuracy in the throws themselves. Everyone has seen and is agreeing that McNair has been less than accurate pretty much all year. And as I said, we're not talking about throwing a pass to a post position when the receiver is running a corner. Or throwing out when the receiver is supposed to be in. This has been flat out missing receivers and throwing 6 interceptions.


Mark Brunell, Kurt Warner, Jake Plummer etc. all of these guys took time before they performed at a high level on there new teams.

Actually, Jake Plummer was an immediate improvement from Arizona to Denver. I've chronicled that several times on YBR. Plummer went from a 65.7 QB rating in the last year at Arizona to a 91.2 Qb rating his first year with Denver.

Warner pretty much played 80 rating football in the three teams he's been with. So his production didn't drop off all that much. Coming from the Rams, it was bound to happen. But right now all of Warner's first years with new teams look better than McNair right now.

Brunell I'll give you. But I've never liked him, even with the Jaguars.



Having said that, if we could simulate the Ravens with McNair as the starter play against themselves with Boller as the starter, I wouldn't trust Boller to come out ahead at the end.

I have to ask.......huh?

[FadeToBlack]

To answer your question Stinger, I don't think Boller is a winner like McNair. Winning is a skill, just like throwing touchdowns or having a high completion percentage. While the team shares in that, the individual can have a high impact on the outcome of a football game.

[Sports Steve]

No Rolle didn't come to play today.

[Greg]

It doesn't matter if McNair played 20 or 30 years with Mason, Its a different playbook, which means different routes.
That is just completely false. Every team runs the same routes. The all run slugos, posts, fly, 5 yard outs, 15 yard outs, etc. The playbook from one team to another is only different in terminology. The sets the plays are run out of and how often certain plays and types of plays changes from team to team, but the routes WRs run are no different.

The familiarity a QB needs is with his individual receivers more than anything. Also how his OL blocks is important. But a 15 yard out is still a 15 yard out.


This is something I have been preaching seemingly forever, and for which the Boller touters always seem to overlook. McNair has a weaker but more accurate and is the opposite of Boller.
The NFL average success rate on balls thrown 20 yards in the air is somewhere around 15-20% as for completions. About 1 out of every 5 or 6 plays, which was his rate yesterday.

Back to accuracy. McNair, has a 59.4% lifetime completion percentage and is at 56.2% for 2006. Boller's lifetime completion percentage is 55.5% and is 54.8% in limited time this year. Given that Unlike McNair, Boller actually ATTEMPTS longer passes 5-6 times a game, or about 20% of his attempts, if we take those attempts and any completions out of the percentage I bet they would match. Basically, the vaunted accuracy of McNair is a load of crapola. At face it is a few completions a game, which I would take, but the fact is those extra few completions come at the expense of any pretense in regard to a deep passing game.

[52decleetzu]

I like seeing balls passed with zip and points scored. It was obvious how much younger and spry Boller is than Mcnair. Too bad the pass defense blew it.

New Orleans is likely to be a shootout. The only chance I see for us is if McNair stays on the bench.

Its amazing to see the difference in the way Boller throws compared with McNair,especially right after one another when Steve got hurt.

I would say that while McNairs pocket presence is better,when Boller is in there I bet the coaches make a little adjustment in the amount of 15yd plus passes they call.Its obvious that Mcnair doesnt have the down field arm anymore and teams realize this and clamp down on everything short.

[Heap86]

That is just completely false. Every team runs the same routes. The all run slugos, posts, fly, 5 yard outs, 15 yard outs, etc. The playbook from one team to another is only different in terminology. The sets the plays are run out of and how often certain plays and types of plays changes from team to team, but the routes WRs run are no different.

The Routes are the same, but they are run in unlimited different varieties. Why do you think most Offensive Coordinators have playbooks that exceed 100 pages, if that were the case a average playbook would probably consist of 4 or 5 pages.

I don't think any of us can even speculate how a many different plays Offensive Coordinators have. Learning the verbage is the easy part, the difficult part is learning an unlimited number of different plays and figuring out what to do and when to do it under pressure.

Most of, if not all of the NFL analysts have stated that McNair is still very fresh here, and the game looks to be moving very fast for him.

I am giving Mac a full year here before I make a final judgement. So far he has played like I have expected, but he still managed to win games.

[Greg]

The Routes are the same, but they are run in unlimited different varieties. Why do you think most Offensive Coordinators have playbooks that exceed 100 pages, if that were the case a average playbook would probably consist of 4 or 5 pages.
The claim in the post I was responding to was that they were different. You can have up to 5 possible routes for a play. The terminology to call that play can be kind of complicated and maybe remembering where the 4th and 5th checkdown are if indeed all 5 eligibles go out might be tough, but remember 1-3 shouldn't be that hard. The name of the play tells you the routes that will be run once you learn the terminology for that system, I hope he has that down by now. He also has a wrist cheat sheet which probably gives him the terminology definitions so he can confirm that Jet mean fly, etc.

In any case, I would buy the getting used to the offense take to take the next step. Fact is, he needs to take the next step just to get to barely serviceable right now.

[Heap86]

In any case, I would buy the getting used to the offense take to take the next step. Fact is, he needs to take the next step just to get to barely serviceable right now

Barely serviceable?

You would'nt call the game in Cleveland and the win against the Chargers serviceable?

His only total flop was in the shitty weather in Denver, and Sunday he only played for half a quarter.

[PURPWALK]

IMO, if McNair played the whole game ...we'd have lost by even more. With no run game, no deep threat, and the defense going in the tank..fugeddaboudit. I suspect we'd have had more pickoffs, possibly returned all the way. Carolina's defense would have been able to jump the pass routes with abandon.

While I hope I'm wrong, I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that sadly, McNair is NOT the answer. He is exactly what Boller needs though. Whether or not Boller stays here or goes elsewhere next season, he'll be a much better QB for having had a real veteran to learn the other nuances of the game.

[Sports Steve]

No Boller did as well as we could have asked him to. The defense gave up too many big plays to continue to let Carolina stay ahead. The offense put twenty plus points on the board this game but it wasn't enough.


:jester: :jester:

[FHRaven]

The Routes are the same, but they are run in unlimited different varieties. Why do you think most Offensive Coordinators have playbooks that exceed 100 pages, if that were the case a average playbook would probably consist of 4 or 5 pages.

I don't think any of us can even speculate how a many different plays Offensive Coordinators have. Learning the verbage is the easy part, the difficult part is learning an unlimited number of different plays and figuring out what to do and when to do it under pressure.

Most of, if not all of the NFL analysts have stated that McNair is still very fresh here, and the game looks to be moving very fast for him.

I am giving Mac a full year here before I make a final judgement. So far he has played like I have expected, but he still managed to win games.

This is wrong. Or at least based on every interview I've heard by a QB who switched teams it's wrong.

The verbiage is the tough thing to learn. As Greg said, a 15 yard out is a 15 yard out. The subtle adjustments a WR and QB may make as they become familiar with each other is the difference. In the case of Mason, that should not be an issue.

FHRaven

[FHRaven]

Barely serviceable?

You would'nt call the game in Cleveland and the win against the Chargers serviceable?

His only total flop was in the shitty weather in Denver, and Sunday he only played for half a quarter.

You need to stop judging a QBs performance by just the last 2:00. The game is 60 minutes and we can't always count on the defense to hold the opponent to under 10 points.

FHRaven

[StingerNLG]

The game is 60 minutes and we can't always count on the defense to hold the opponent to under 10 points.

As evidence by Denver. Now all of a sudden it was a rainy shitty day in Denver.

I don't remember Boller getting the same leeway when he had to play in New England in a monsoon without Jamal Lewis at all (remember he was suspended 4 games in 2004). All I heard was how bad Boller was in that game. No one cared about the weather then.

[Greg]

I am giving Mac a full year here before I make a final judgement. So far he has played like I have expected, but he still managed to win games.
Really? Then why make the switch? This was a WIN NOW move. If McNair wasn't going to come in here and give our offense a boost why spend all of that money? A year, you'll wait a year?

[Greg]

Really, we were 5-4 in his rookie season when he went down. Really, 5-3 and in the middle of a very close game. We made the playoffs that year. If the defense steps up against Cincy in 2004 and just stops them once on 4 drives in the last quarter we win that game and go to the playoffs. Last year we were 4-5 in his 9 starts, sticking him with the Irsay game he didn't finish. Anthony Wrong was 2-5 against lesser competition. Boller's losses were all to good teams except the Browns. Wrong lost to Tenn, Detroit, Cincy at home, the Bears (that was a very winnable game).

You can't blame him for last year for missing the playoffs. In 2004 we just need one damn stop. In 2003 we made the playoffs with him making most of the starts.

[Greg]

Again, if the defense can stop Cincy in 2004 he takes us to the playoffs.

Dilfer won a Super Bowl with a 76.6 rating and had more fumbles and INTs than TD passes. BTW, Boller's lifetime rating is 70.0 but his numbers have slightly improved year over year. I htink the guy could get into the 80s. I know your position on the matter.

[StingerNLG]

how many QB's with 69 ratings and career stats near the bottom of the league with more INTS and FUMBLES lost than TD passes are going to lead a team anywhere?

Then McNair isn't going to do it either. 67 QB rating and 5TD/7INT with 4 fumbles.

And you wonde.......................oh nevermind.

[Greg's Dog]

I watch all of the games and I must say McNair has laid more turds on the field this year than I have dropped in Greg's backyard since I arrived.

[highwater]

So you are tossing out all of McNair's career stats, and focusing only on this season so far, and for Boller focusing only on his last game to make your argument? Kind of short sighted don't you think?:eek:

No, that is not short sighted for people living in the present time. Focusing on Boller's last game makes sense, since that's the only game in which he has had any significant playing time. And McNair's career stats are not that relevant right now, since he seems to be playing much older than his actual age.

[Greg]

Or if he had led the Ravens to a TD ( like Palmer did) to give them the lead instead of his usual field goal you could also say he takes us to the playoffs.
He actually led drives to two FGs, IIRC. I also recall us getting into FG position and running up the gut 3 times in a row. That isn't Boller's fault.

[highwater]

However, I think the coaches have little faith in Boller not throwing a stupid pick or fumbling when inside the red zone which we all have seen his propensity to do. Ergo, Billick almost always takes the conservative approach and settles for the FG in a close game.

Really? That's funny, I haven't noticed the coaches opening up the playbook when McNair is behind center. I haven't noticed any difference in the playcalling with McNair at QB -- in fact, when Boller played on Sunday, the playcalling was less conservative than when McNair was playing.

[highwater]

He hasn't had over thirty games like Boller.

He hasn't?

[Greg]

I think he is saying Boller has an advantage with his 30+ Ravens games with players like Travis Taylor and Kevin Johnson. McNair's years of experience with Mason are discounted, however.

[GirlsKickButt]

Regarding McNair learning the playbook and the routes...

USUALLY (and I'm not saying every team), a passing play has 3 numbers, like "941". These correspond to each route the "X", "Y" and "Z" WR runs. So, in a "941", the "X" WR runs a "9" (fly), the "Y" (or slot) WR runs a "4" (a drag) and the "Z" WR runs a "1" (quick out).

All the other terminology is the pass protections, back's pass protection and maybe an audible call.

McNair should be familar with 95% of the playbook by now. If he wasn't, you'd see more hesitation to his decision making.

McNair's passes are sailing high because he's throwing off his back foot, since 9 times out of 10, he can't step up in the pocket because of Flynn and/or Vincent getting bull-rushed backwards.

[Mista T]

BTW, Boller's lifetime rating is 70.0 but his numbers have slightly improved year over year. I htink the guy could get into the 80s.

We should be looking at recent trends. Forgettabout what Kyle did as a raw rookie, who should have carried the clipboard for a few seasons. He's just now approaching his prime, maybe another season to become an effective well rounded NFL QB. Forgettabout McNair's youthful glory years with the Titans glamour teams and his co-MVP award, before he got old & beaten up, and lost his arm strength.

All you need to know is:

In three of his past four games, Boller's QB rating has been 97 or better.

In McNair's last four games, his QB ratings have steadily fallen from 83.8 to 16.7. :laugh:

:T2:

[Greg]

Tell me the differences between this offense and the Titans. What plays do we run that they don't? What routes do our receivers run that theirs don't? What blocking schemes, formations, running plays, what EXACTLY is this big difference he needs to learn?

There is none, other than terminology and a repore with his receivers. He has worked with Mason a lot more and Boller has worked with Heap a lot more. Boller has a slight advantage with Clayton. McNair with Williams.

[Mista T]

Comparing is Brunell/Ramsey situation aganst Mcnair/Boller is apples and oranges. Brunell is 3 or 4 years older than McNair, but looks 5 years younger. Brunell has a decent arm, while McNair's arm is shot. And Brunell just set a new NFL record for consecutive completions, while McNair tosses short passes to wide open receivers into the dirt.

I think a better comparison would be McNair to Scott Mitchell.:rolling:

:T2:

[highwater]

No he hasn't. He has had 4 and 1/4 games as the Ravens starting QB. Boller has over thirty. It took Boller three years to learn this offense and he still screws up, but you expect Mcnair to know it in four games?:rolleyes:

ENOUGH with this idea that the Ravens playbook is so complicated that it takes an experienced QB like McNair a year to figure it out. It can't be that complex -- face facts, he can't throw a deep pass, and he hasn't even been that accurate on his short and medium range passes. He hasn't played well on a consistent basis, so just get over it.

[StingerNLG]

I think this thread has run it's course by now. Does the term "brick wall" mean anything? I think it's time to talk about something else.

[MikeinGlennDale]

McNair is the savior of the Baltimore Ravens. I think he is the best QB we've had since Cunningham....and for the record, I still the BR would have beaten PITT in the playoff game if BB would have inserted him into the lineup.

[TTRaven]

McNair is the savior of the Baltimore Ravens.

Any fan who thinks that is delusional. Steve Mcnair is far from the savior of the Baltimore Ravens. If anything he'll be a main contributer to the downfall of the 2006 Baltimore Ravens if he continues to play the way he has. If you're looking for the savior of the Ravens, you should look in the direction of Matt Stover. If it wasn't for him this team would be 2-4 instead of 4-2.

[RavenDavey]

Two of those were complete and total flukes. Boller should absolutely NOT get credit for those passes.

How many times did Boller get charged with INT's last year that bounced off of our receivers? They all show in the STAT column in the end.

[FHRaven]

How many times did Boller get charged with INT's last year that bounced off of our receivers? They all show in the STAT column in the end.

You forgot the first rule of being a Boller hater. Only negative stats are attributed to him, anything positive is the result of everyone else.

When discussing any other QB then do the opposite.

Remember, the Boller haters are the same people who said we were just Anthony Wright away from being a Super Bowl team. I think we all saw how well that prediction turned out. :rolling:

FHRaven

[FHRaven]

Wrong. I thought both of them equally bad its just Wright didn't look so clutzy doing it.

Wow, still in self-denial? Not surprising. Only after AW destroyed last season did the Boller haters change their opinion from "he's the missing piece to the SB" to "he's as bad as Boller". Being completely wrong is assessing AW hasn'tmade them reconsider their preconcieved notions about QB play.

Now McNair looks terrible as well. See a trend???

FHRaven

[highwater]

McNair has never looked even remotely as bad as Boller, not now, not ever.

I guess you didn't see the game this past Sunday.

[FHRaven]

I guess you didn't see the game this past Sunday.

I guess he didn't see the Denver game either.

Way to ignore the rest of my post by the way.

FHRaven

[StingerNLG]

Originally Posted by highwater
I guess you didn't see the game this past Sunday.


Originally Posted by Tex Ritter
No, I did not.

And there you have it. All you need to know about this entire discussion.

[Mobtown]

And there you have it. All you need to know about this entire discussion.


Yeah, that sucks. :grbac:

[StingerNLG]

Yeah, that sucks.

And that's the difference with how you and I debate here. You and I seem to disagree on things, but I respect your opinion, and because I know you're at least watching the games too. I don't mind debating with you because I can take your points seriously.

[Greg]

McNair only played a quarter and it sounded like he was under tremendous pressure.
He was under a lot of pressure when he got the sack that knocked him out, before that he had adequate time to throw and just missed.


Apparently the OL blocked somewhat better for Boller as they were afraid what might happen if he got carted off.
No, they didn't, Boller was having to move around A LOT to buy time. The miss to Heap that would have probably been a long TD barely went over his hands was thrown on the run after escaping a lot of pressure.

Frankly, the next time you are discussing these things tell us up front if you didn't even see it. I saw it live and said so in at least one of these discussions, noting I have not seen replays, etc.

[RavenDavey]

He was under a lot of pressure when he got the sack that knocked him out, before that he had adequate time to throw and just missed.


No, they didn't, Boller was having to move around A LOT to buy time. The miss to Heap that would have probably been a long TD barely went over his hands was thrown on the run after escaping a lot of pressure.

Frankly, the next time you are discussing these things tell us up front if you didn't even see it. I saw it live and said so in at least one of these discussions, noting I have not seen replays, etc.

Thank You!! I saw it live also and yes....under pressure and scrambling. The other "overthrow" went through 2 hands and in stride.

[crazyraven]

Honestly, The way you guys are talking you'd think that boller had some kind of monster game. I saw the game and on NFL Replay, and contrary to popular belief boller looked like his old stumbling bumbling self with a brush stroke of leprecon luck. Regardless with or with out seeing the game the results are the same. You can gather the information from highlights, interviews and articles and still make an educated opinion on his play. Boller is just not equiped to win games when the Defense is not playing at super human mode.

[StingerNLG]

You can gather the information from highlights, interviews and articles and still make an educated opinion on his play.

Funny, most of the highlights were good.

Most of what's written was fairly positive, saying Boller had a solid game.

Everyone interviewed was more than positive about Boller, from Todd Heap to Derrick Mason. EVEN from the Carolina players like Julius Peppers.

Hell, other teams fans seem to see highlights and stats and interviews and articles and want Boller to play on their team.

I realize it has to be killing some people that Boller in one game has moved the offense and looked better than the guy they so wanted to come in and save the day. But come on. We all know if this was McNair with the same game some people here would be praising him and blaming the defense for this loss. It would be all about how Mark Clayton really loves McNair's leadership and went after those balls for him. I swear it's amazing to read sometimes.

[crazyraven]

Funny, most of the highlights were good
They Were? Maybe if you like keystone cops footage it looked good but in the long run we aint getting plays like that unless we are touched by some sort of "angel in the outfield" syndrome.


Everyone interviewed was more than positive about Boller, from Todd Heap to Derrick Mason. EVEN from the Carolina players like Julius Peppers.
I saw delhomme scratching his head saying he's never been part of a game where the ball bounce the way it did for one team. That was on replay.
Also after the game i heard the guys on Sirius (mcgovern and zig) saying that if it wasnt for a the some lucky throws and a questionable catch by heap that this game should have been a blow out. In fact the same guys also said that the team didnt play the same with Boller in as they do when Mcnair was in. they said something along the lines that Mcnair had a better command of the offense and the overall team.


I realize it has to be killing some people that Boller in one game has moved the offense and looked better than the guy they so wanted to come in and save the day.

BS, if boller moves the team and looks good I'm happy. I'm even happier if he pulls out a win. the fact is boller look like ass out there except for a few lucky plays.

[Greg]

In fact the same guys also said that the team didnt play the same with Boller in as they do when Mcnair was in. they said something along the lines that Mcnair had a better command of the offense and the overall team.

Then that is a problem for the players, not Boller.

You can claim what you want, and if Boller looked bad in your eyes, fine. BUT...he played with NO time with the first team offense. And the thing is, his 3 quarters LOOKED as good as any continuous 3 quarters of McNair. Statistically he blows any 3 consecutive McNair quarters away, but even in the looks department he was better.

The lucky bounces don't account for this because not one of them created a first down. Boller, 16 in 47 minutes of game action, which is about 20 per game. McNair is averaging 15.5 and THAT includes some pretty shitty defenses while Carolina is as good as we have seen. THIS CAN NOT BE SPUN.

[crazyraven]

Then that is a problem for the players, not Boller.

But if Boller isnt aware of the problem and cant fix it, then its everybodys problem--including the fans. If the team cant rally around him we lose. In my mind it is his problem and the only way he can fix is by winning games when they are close like this one. Mcnair has already done this.



You can claim what you want, and if Boller looked bad in your eyes, fine. BUT...he played with NO time with the first team offense.
Some people have said that Boller was a top 5 backup before the year even started and that we would benifit from his experience. BUT Did we? I dont think so. You can claim he looked good in your eyes, and that fine but wouldnt you agree that a backup, especially one who was supposely tauted as a top 5 backup, pull out a win when the score was 3-0 when he walked on to the field? There were two oppurtunies that were missed by Boller that had Mcnair been in he would have captilized on.

[StingerNLG]

They Were? Maybe if you like keystone cops footage it looked good but in the long run we aint getting plays like that unless we are touched by some sort of "angel in the outfield" syndrome.

It's kinf of funny, because I watched Sportscenter, and the Sunday night and Monday night game. Crazy, you're just giving this your patented "I hate Boller" spin.



I saw delhomme scratching his head saying he's never been part of a game where the ball bounce the way it did for one team. That was on replay.
Also after the game i heard the guys on Sirius (mcgovern and zig) saying that if it wasnt for a the some lucky throws and a questionable catch by heap that this game should have been a blow out. In fact the same guys also said that the team didnt play the same with Boller in as they do when Mcnair was in. they said something along the lines that Mcnair had a better command of the offense and the overall team.

You've got to be kidding me. Have they WATCHED McNair and his command of this offense? I know you have this fantasy that McNair is lightning it up on the field.

And you now make the single person who is calling the TD to Heap "questionable", which of course plays once again to the "I hate Boller" spin that you put on everything. I'm betting if McNair threw that ball we'd hear how McNair made a great throw and put it where only Heap could get it. I have known you long enough to know that's fact.

-------------------------------------
"I was hoping that we would get one more opportunity to get the ball in our hands," Heap said. "And it was frustrating that we didn't get that one more opportunity because I had a good feeling that if we got the ball, we'd go down and score. It just didn't work out for us."
--------------------------------------
Oh yeah, Heap plays differently with Boller on the field.


Look, by now we know that everything with a few people is an anti-Boller spin. Doesn't matter if the entire world sees that Boller came off the bench cold and moved the ball in a way McNair simply hasn't. The entire country could write that, and three people in this state that will see it differently and somehow throw spin on it. It's what we've come to expect, so this is hardly suprising.

[knots]

But if Boller isnt aware of the problem and cant fix it, then its everybodys problem--including the fans. If the team cant rally around him we lose. In my mind it is his problem and the only way he can fix is by winning games when they are close like this one. Mcnair has already done this.



Some people have said that Boller was a top 5 backup before the year even started and that we would benifit from his experience. BUT Did we? I dont think so. You can claim he looked good in your eyes, and that fine but wouldnt you agree that a backup, especially one who was supposely tauted as a top 5 backup, pull out a win when the score was 3-0 when he walked on to the field? There were two oppurtunies that were missed by Boller that had Mcnair been in he would have captilized on.

I am fairly certain that Boller lead this team to a TD that put them in the lead..but then again you seem to be watching a different game...

your observations about what took place Sunday are clouded by your total dislike for Boller and inability to give credit where it was due. I'm sure that in your eyes the defense didn't play well because Boller was behind center. I don't know what stumbling you saw, from my seat in the stadium he looked much better than he has in the past...and when the fact that he had no reps with the first team offense is taken into account, he did what he was supposed to do-- keep the team in the game. Bounces are part of the game and for once the bounces went the Ravens way. 2 passes that Boller didn't connect on would have been TD's if he had the benefit of taking reps in practice...not that this small nuance would be recognized by those who are convinced that Boller can't walk and chew gum at the same time....

The only two mistakes that Boller made Sunday were fumbling one snap (which McNair never does) and throwing a pick when he could have run for 20 yard...oh wait, he would have fumbled right? ........I guess Musa's fumble was somehow Boller's fault as well...that fumble had no bearing on the game, right?

McNair's performance has been for the most part, average at best and given his pedigree as an MVP and pro bowler, below expectations. The two comebacks could have been avoided had the offense been more efficient over the other 57 minutes of those games....

[StingerNLG]

pull out a win when the score was 3-0 when he walked on to the field?

Not to inject any more fact into the arguement, but just in case the arguement is that we were up before Boller came in, we we not winning 3-0. That would be a little impossible since we had 0 passing yards nor even a first down until Boller came in. We did have a completion, but it was to a Panther. We were down 3-0.

Of course the defense won't get blamed for this loss by the usual suspects. This time they got the 21 points Ray Lewis said was all they needed to win, and well.............

Show of hands, how many people in this thread actually WATCHED this game? We already know one person who didn't even see it, and I'm starting to believe there are more.

[Greg]

In my mind it is his problem and the only way he can fix is by winning games when they are close like this one.
How is he supposed to win a game by himself? He would have to if as you claim the team doesn't play for him. He did enough and more to win, he gave them 21 points.


There were two oppurtunies that were missed by Boller that had Mcnair been in he would have captilized on.
Which opportunities? And please, McNair has left A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES ON THE FIELD. To assume he would have capitalized when he has failed a lot more often than not is absurd.

[crazyraven]

your observations about what took place Sunday are clouded by your total dislike for Boller and inability to give credit where it was due.
Take out those 3 fluke plays that led to TDs and really ask yourself if Boller played well. Credit was given to Boller when he played at home against GB and Minn. In 2 of those throws Boller aimed at another reciever and Clayton came down with it. If thats not bad in both of those cases a defender had a hand on the ball. We were lucky we got those presents. I'm looking at it objectively your looking at it though purple glasses.





Not to inject any more fact into the arguement, but just in case the arguement is that we were up before Boller came in, we we not winning 3-0.
Who said we were winning? I said the score was 3-0 that doesnt mean we were ahead you nut.



Of course the defense won't get blamed for this loss by the usual suspects.
Steve smith is going to do some damage but thats besides the point because our Top 5 backup should be able to come in and rally the troops and lead us to a win. Instead its same old same old when it comes to Boller.


Which opportunities?
I meantioned this think in this thread or another thread but TL said it best in his report card column:


However he twice failed to lead drives that should have produced points inside of Carolina territory. With 8:34 remaining in the third and the Ravens down 13-7, the Ravens faced a third and 11 from the Carolina 34. While rolling right Boller’s pass intended for Heap was picked off by rookie reserve corner Richard Marshall. Boller had plenty of room to run and if he didn’t pick up the first he certainly would have left the reliable Stover with a make-able field goal attempt.

Then to end the third quarter, the Ravens had a first and 10 at the Panthers’ 30. After a loss of two on a run by Anderson and an incomplete pass to Heap, Boller tossed an ill-advised pass to Musa Smith that lost another two yards and pushed Stover outside of his comfort zone. The Ravens would eventually elect to punt to start the fourth quarter and pin the Panthers at their 6. Failure to produce points in either of these situations proved costly.

[darb72]

"Take out those 3 fluke plays that led to TDs and really ask yourself if Boller played well."

Three fluke plays? Which one was the third?
Oh wait a minute. When McNair throws a horrible INT in the end-zone by hitting Champ Bailey in the chest it's the receivers fault
When Boller places the ball where only Heap can catch it, Boller did something stupid but the receiver saved the day.

"Steve smith is going to do some damage but thats besides the point because our Top 5 backup should be able to come in and rally the troops and lead us to a win. Instead its same old same old when it comes to Boller."

Same old Boller? He had two TDs in the final five minutes of the game which is more than we can expect from McNair in four quarters.

[StingerNLG]

Take out those 3 fluke plays that led to TDs and really ask yourself if Boller played well.

I think it's funny that you are still the only one calling the Heap TD a fluke. But as I said, everything you type has to be taken with the "I hate Boller" lick of salt. And that's cool. Nothing we're not prepared for.

So my response is, not only yes, but played better than McNair has over the last 4 weeks. I think that's the thing that's bothering people the most. McNair can't finish drives, throw touchdowns, or get his QB rating out of the toilet. Boller comes in off the bench cold with no practice reps during the week and it looks like it's his offense, going up and down the field. It's amazing that this actually is upsetting people.


Who said we were winning? I said the score was 3-0 that doesnt mean we were ahead you nut.

Your implication was that somehow at 3-0 Boller was in great position. Of course you make it sound like we're leading. You didn't bother to point out Carolina's 3 points came as a result of a horrible Steve McNair interception.



Steve smith is going to do some damage but thats besides the point because our Top 5 backup should be able to come in and rally the troops and lead us to a win. Instead its same old same old when it comes to Boller.

And there it is. I was waiting for you to blame Boller for the defense not stopping Steve Smith. This shows me you didn't watch the game. Point blank, no doubt, you have no concept of what happened in this game.

This is why Darb put you on his ignore list.



I meantioned this think in this thread or another thread but TL said it best in his report card column:

You did. And I pointed out that you left out an entire paragraph that said:

"Boller’s effort was solid and while his QB rating of 97.0 on the day was certainly aided by a couple of tipped throws, he made some plays and showed some athleticism that has been missing from the position. He fired a few lasers to Todd Heap, Mark Clayton, Daniel Wilcox and Demetrius Williams that McNair is no longer capable of. He demonstrated some toughness taking hits while delivering some passes, one of which was his 35 yard connection to Williams. He still has a tendency to flush out of the pocket to his left instead of stepping up into it – a trademark of McNair’s. Boller did appear to do a better job on Sunday reading through his progressions than he’s done in the past."

And everytime you try to selectively pull something out like that, I'll happily remind you what you left out.


The bottom line is that even Bruce Cunningham on his show this morning said he thought Boller played "a great game". And that show has not been kind to Boller in the least, especially with Aaron on there. The rest of football gave Boller good to high marks on his performance Sunday, even the Carolina Panthers. The only person claiming all three of Boller's TD's were flukes, and it was the "same old Boller" really is you Crazy.

And that's why Darb put you on the ignore list. You can't discuss that which is needs to continually be factually corrected.

[crazyraven]

And everytime you try to selectively pull something out like that, I'll happily remind you what you left out.

Gregg asked which opportunities I was talking about not how he looked or how his stats were padded by 3 lucky passes. Pointing out that he looked good or athletic or even that he read his progessions properly didnt get us a w. Again the opportunites were lost. I was asked which ones and I gave TL examples. Stick with the subject.

As for the heap pass On the NFL replay the announcers said that the ball should have been reviewed by Fox but he did not. It seemed as if heap was pushed out of bounds and that there was some debate as to whether he was or wasnt. Considering that HEap never put his feet in the endzone you have to say that it is a little flukish. I'll concede it only because its heap and the ball was throw to him a little high and he made a great grab at it.



Your implication was that somehow at 3-0 Boller was in great position.

It wasnt like it was 17-0. 3-0 with literally an entire game left to play is certainly not in the hole. There was no other implication other than that boller wasnt in an insurmountable hole.


You didn't bother to point out Carolina's 3 points came as a result of a horrible Steve McNair interception.

either way it was still only 3 points. still not a huge hill to climb.


This is why Darb put you on his ignore list.
Thats his choice. He can be that way if he chooses. Actually I really dont like him to begin with so its for the best anyway.



This shows me you didn't watch the game. Point blank, no doubt, you have no concept of what happened in this game.
Look if tex said he didnt watch the game thats fine but please dont pin that on me. Your just being silly and you know it.

[StingerNLG]

No crazy. Being silly is having the balls to actually act as though boller, while actually sparking the offence for the first time in weeks, lost the Carolina game as if the panthers didn't score 23 points on our defense and Steve smith didn't have 189 yards that day, including a 73 yard play right after boller scored. And you act like boller didn't answer that with a touchdown, which of course he did, but didn't see the field again because the defense couldn't stop anyone.

That is silly and unreasonable. But its also predictable and not surprising from you. That's why you turn people off to your attitude, and why I'm done with this conversation with you. I'm not going round and round with this anymore. There is just no discussing this constructively with your way of thinking.

[crazyraven]

Why is it when I put up the opportunities that are missed by boller everyone glance over them and doesn't address it. TL has talked about it but most of the church of boller want to hide there head or put people on their ignore lists or say that I am the one who is being difficult. I have conceded the heap td and said you were right about that yet you want to go on about that I am being difficult with the way I am thinking. You never change your opinion. You always think your right about boller. You alway think he does a good even when its obviouis to the entire world that he doesnt have it. When I site opinions from the person who invented this board you ignore what I post and post stuff that had nothing to do with what was written. Those two losts opportunities are the things I have been focusing on but instead we go in circles with stupid shit like ignore lists and claiming that I didnt see the game.

And if people are turn off by my attitude its because this site has been a great big circle jerk for starting Boller over Mcnair since its inception. there are only a few reasonable opposing voices on this board, I for one have played nice because I am totally outnumbered but thats ok I'm still here and I'm not going anywhere.

Well I'm sure I'm headed to your ignore list now, especially since darb has me on it.

[highwater]

Take out those 3 fluke plays that led to TDs and really ask yourself if Boller played well.

Three fluke plays? :laugh:

I guess you didn't actually see the game, just like Tex.

Haters never learn.

[crazyraven]

The above post is my point exactly

[StingerNLG]

That's BS Crazy. Such BS. You are not a reasonable opposing opinion here. You are unreasonable to a point where you're almost egregiously making things into bad. You never conceded the Heap TD. You said it was a fluke. So unless you're going back to edit a post from earlier, that is a lie.

I love these too:


When I site opinions from the person who invented this board you ignore what I post and post stuff that had nothing to do with what was written.

Well, except THE PARAGRAPH RIGHT ABOVE which you seem to magically leave out. And for good reason, I know. It pains you to see anything positive written about Boller because that goes against your "he does nothing right" philosophy.


\You never change your opinion. You always think your right about boller. You alway think he does a good even when its obviouis to the entire world that he doesnt have it.

Sorry, at first I thought you were talking about yourself. Again, you completely ignore that other teams fans are talking about how good Boller's stats are, and how they'd like him on their team, or could you not bring yourself to read the "Redskin fans want Boller" thread? Of course you couldn't. But again, we come to expect everything from you to be that "I hate Boller" spin. Nothing changes.


And if people are turn off by my attitude its because this site has been a great big circle jerk for starting Boller over Mcnair since its inception.

Name them. Other than Mista T, who has advocated Boller starting, name them. That's what I thought.



Well I'm sure I'm headed to your ignore list now,

Actually, that's not a bad idea. You, as you have before, bring nothing to a discussion. You haven't this entire thread, and somehow you've sucked some of us into it. I realized you brought nothing to the discussion when you blamed Boller for this past loss and gave the defense the big free pass. But again, it's nothing new for you. And quite frankly, this with you has now gotten boring and unentertaining. So I can at least ignore your ignorance on this forum, and I think that's a fantastic idea at this point. :thumbup:

BTW, read the poll. Your lord and savior McNair doesn't appear to have been able to win the Carolina game in most people's eyes either. The difference is if he was playing I'm sure you'd blame the loss on someone else. Hell, you'd blame it on Boller because he was sitting on the sidelines.

[crazyraven]

Well, except THE PARAGRAPH RIGHT ABOVE which you seem to magically leave out. And for good reason, I know. It pains you to see anything positive written about Boller because that goes against your "he does nothing right" philosophy.

Again I have posted TL comments about missed oppurtunites and I have yet to here an opposing view. I brought something to the discussion but it appears you and many others are picking and choosing what you want to discuss or you want to add something else he wrote that has nothing to do with missed oppurtunities. In fact Boller went backward and stover's leg was not able to be used. All I heard a few weeks ago was how easy it was for a qb to get stover in field goal range and that anyone could use stover the way mcnair did. Appartently thats not true. But I'm sure you'll say I'm on your ignore list totally overlooking a valid point that none of you guys want to touch on.

BTW about HEAP if you look at my post (#100) you will see where I conceded that Boller TD. No Edits, once it's up there, it's out there.


Name them. Other than Mista T, who has advocated Boller starting, name them. That's what I thought.

That's easy--YOU.

That one was a lay up.

[FHRaven]

Yeah, he writes that he is not advocating benching McNair for Boller just yet, be we all know that is what he hopes and dreams happens. Boller's on field performances must look like Carson or Ben's in his eyes the way he continutally touts him for no logical reason under the sun.

Please check the Raven's QB stats before you post things like this again. There are several reasons to advocate Boller over McNair at this point.

Or maybe try to watch a game sometime.

I also like how you're now a mind reader and know what people are "hoping and dreaming"? Can you read my mind and tell what I think of you right now? :bag:

[darb72]

Do you honestly think that people like CR and Tex actually have any facts to back up their claims?

We know Tex never watches a game and CR has let his hatred for Boller cloud his mind.

I posted a fairly telling summary of the drives that McNair and Boller have started this year. Guess exactly how many Haters said anything about it. 1/3 of the drives started by McNair end in three-and-out or worse.
1/3 of the drives started by McNair pick up only one first down.
1/3 of the drives started by McNair pick up more than one first down.

Yet in their eyes McNair has been leading us up and down the field.

We had seven TDs scored on offense before last Sunday. We've started inside the opponents 40 nine times. 10 FGs.

They love to say Boller is wildly inaccurate, yet he has a 55% completion rate with the Ravens while McNair has a 56% rate.

[darb72]

I actually took you off the ignore list for this.:grbac:

"And Boller has a turdish 5-16 road record and McNair is 2-1."
You do realize that the Ravens were 5-2 with Boller/Wright when the defense allowed fewer than 15 points right?

With McNair we're 4-1. Hmmm....

"Boller has had ONE game (actually just three quarters) (Yeah count how many) this season which included two of three totally lucky and fluke tipped TD passes."

Compare Bollers last 5 games to McNairs last five games. Enjoy.

"Based on that you think he's better than his lousy career record now all of the sudden? "

I think that after watching McNair suck up the field for 2/3 of his drives this year he isn't any better than Boller.

Most people who can actually WATCH the games agree with me. Now I realize that you can't watch the games so you will forgive me if I care less than nothing about your opinion.

"And you also think because Mcnair had a below par game against Denver in Denver "
And the Raiders. And the Chargers. And Carolina. 5 games McNair has started and finished this year, 3 times he's had less than a 66 QB rating.

Tex, in all honesty you should not be posting here if you can't watch the games. You have no facts to back up your statements. You don't even have the chance to go on gut feelings by watching what is happening on the field. All of your post are pointless.

[Greg]

You honestly can't just assume he wouldn't either. Furthermore, many Boller supporters are projecting McNair's first quarter performance as if it would have automatically been pro-rated for the entire game.
No, I would base that on McNair's performance for the year to date. He is averaging way less than what Boller did Sunday.

Back to first downs, 16 in 47 minutes. The truly lucky TD to Clayton, upon seeing some tape, would have been a first down to Williams. He was open and the ball was on target save the tip. That makes 17 first downs, maybe more on that drive if you want to take away that TD. That is more than McNair has done against weaker defenses.


Who's to say McNair wouldn't have gotten hot and lit up the field later on. Believe me, if Boller was having success, I guarantee you McNair would have later in the game, although I doubt if he would have been the master of the tipped ball TD pass like young (and Irish Leprechaun lucky) Kyle was.
I'm to say it, in 5+ games he hadn't done it yet but we are supposed to believe he would all of the sudden light up Carolina?

Neuheisel said both of the tipped balls were right on target, Mason should have done a better job of shaking his man on the one and the other was tipped but if not is a 12-15 yard gain and another first down. Having seen the tape, he's right.

[darb72]

"Out of the 6 games the Ravens have played this season I have missed watching only one, and that was against Carolina because it was not available."

So the only game you didn't watch was the one where Boller actually played, but you still say he's playing worse than McNair.

"As a Boller hugger you chose to isolate Boller's last five games, however you seem to overlook the fact that one of those games was against Cleveland where Boller had a 32 rating and played like a scared girl."
You mean the one where Ogden cost us a TD and the game? I remember that one.
Do you remember the latest one where Charlie Frye flat out played McNair?

Now last season you were saying that the defense was the only reason we were winning games because Kyle had a low QB rating. This year McNair is the lowest rated QB in the league yet he's winning us games according to you.

Explain how 2/3 of his drives end after one or fewer first downs. McNair sucks and he is a waste of 33 million dollars.

Now do us all a favor. Enjoy one of those Alzheimer’s moments you're so famous for and forget how to get post here. Thanks bunches.

[darb72]

"The ball to Mason was well defended and actually Boller needed to lead McNair about a foot to avoid it being tipped by the DB."

Good. That senality is happening. McNair is the QB who was hurt. Mason was the receiver that Boller should have led.
Of course the ball hit Mason right in the chest, but since you have not watched that game you have no business telling us what Boller should have done.

"Boller does not throw accurate nor catchable balls like most of the better QBs in the league including McNair."

Good point, except McNair has a 56% completion rate to Bollers 55%. Of course you being... you... will say that two of Bollers completions were flukes, but since you didn't watch the game you wouldn't know that he threw at least four passes away when nobody was open.

"and IMO has apparently not watched enough football over the years to know any better."

That's funny. You can't watch the games yet it doesn't stop you from posted your unwanted opinion.

[darb72]

"I will bet you 100 dollars that by the time McNair and Boller end their Raven careers McNair's winning percentage will be better than Bollers. If you don't want to bet money, we will make it that if I am wrong I owe you an apology on this board and vice versa. Now put up or shut up!"

Nope, because to much depends on other players for a team to win. Watch the Texans... oh sorry about that.

Now if you want to go McNairs rating this year vs. Bollers rating this year I'll be more than happy to play.

I would normally feel real bad about taking 100 bucks from an old man, but honestly I find the thought of you eating dog food just to survive really freaking funny.

[darb72]

"As far as my comments, just because I did not watch the game in real time doesn't mean I missed the highlights."

Oh, you got to see the highlights. Tell me, did you actually see the highlight that showed the first TD hitting Mason in the chest? Or the fairly long drive that actually led to that TD?

Now how about McNairs and Boller completion perecentages? You claimed that Boller throws an uncatchable ball, yet McNair has only a one percent higher completion rate.

[darb72]

"So ratings are more important to you than wins? I will bet you a $1,000 that by the time Boller ends his NFL career his ratings will be worse than McNairs."

Nope. We're going in this system. If McNair is better than Boller, then he should put up better numbers this year with the same players.

[darb72]

"Todd Heap has commented how much easier it is to catch balls thrown by McNair."

Really? Heap actually said McNair throws a much more catchable ball than Boller.

Prove it.

"The first TD didn't hit McNair in the chest it was tipped by the defender and went up in the air. "

Good point Al. I don't remember a ball hitting McNair in the chest all game long.

[darb72]

McNair had two lucky breaks against the Browns, so those seem about even.

McNair has to put up a QB rating of 97 by the end of the season or you have to apologize to me?

That sounds like a fun bet, but when I actually win please make a new thread about it since I never really bother reading what you post. It's this whole I don't respect your opinion thing.

[Greg]

The ball to Mason was well defended and actually Boller needed to lead McNair about a foot to avoid it being tipped by the DB. So the ball was not well thrown considering the DB had Mason blanketed and a QB with better vision would have see that. The second one was pure luck. Boller does not throw accurate nor catchable balls ...
Thanks for your insight, I'll go with what Neuheisel said and what I saw.


Anyone who believes that somehow Boller has miraculously ended his blundering play and turned a corner ...
I am going by his last 5-6 games in which his play was obviously getting better. Comparing that to McNair's last 5 games and pre-season, Boller has played better. You can not like it, you can say it doesn't mean anything, etc. BUT, with this team over the last 5 regular season games in which both played Boller has played WAY better.

You can deny that all you want but the statistics and the LOOK of both say otherwise.

[StingerNLG]

Wow, which sportscast is showing more than 15-20 seconds of an entire game now as highlights? Last I checked sportscenter and the night games only show a couple of plays for each team. Amazing how one could derive how a QB did in 30 seconds. I guess when you don't actually watch the games for real its easy to form an opinion from the rear end.

As much as I am enjoying watching darb slap old-Tex around, I vote to finally out this thread out of its misery. The folks who were enjoyable to debate with are replaced with what we have now. Its shades of YBR all over again, and I know this is a better forum than that. I say its time to lock this one up.

[Greg]

First of all, he didn't FAR outplay, and second, LOL, nice cherry picking. Why don't we compare the Denver stats? LOL.

Where's the cyber towel so we can throw it in, somebody is taking a royal beating.

[StingerNLG]

I can't believe you are still arguing with a guy that doesn't watch the games Greg. Its like trying to interview a witness who then tells you he didn't really see the crime.

Seriously, its time to be merciful now guys. Close the thread and let old-Tex live for now. There is always next week.

[darb72]

"He said it during training camp. He didn't mention Boller but when he was commenting on it because he didn't want to bash him"

So you can't prove it? Intresting.

" I already explained that was a typo. "

Once is a mistake. Twice is a sign that you're losing your already tenous grip on your mental facilities.

"I bet you that McNair will have a longer NFL career than Boller."

Nope, injuries happen all the time. Stupid bet.

I like the one about McNair and Boller over 16 games. Boller is 8-8 and has a 76.21 QB rating. McNair is 4-2 and has a 68.

Face it old man. McNair has sucked much worse than Boller this year. If you could actually see the game Boller played then you would know it, though you'd probably forget it shortly there after.

[darb72]

I can't believe you are still arguing with a guy that doesn't watch the games Greg. Its like trying to interview a witness who then tells you he didn't really are the crime.

Seriously, its time to be merciful now guys. Close the thread and let old-Tex live for now. There is always next week.

Nope. I've been avoiding these arguments for to long. I'm about to take everyone off the ignore list and go to pimp-smacking.:thumbup:

[StingerNLG]

But darb, seriously. It does no good and your wasting it on people that don't get it and simply don't want to deal in reasonable debate using facts. In fact, they don't even watch the games, but expect you to respect their take.

[darb72]

I know, but it is a great deal of fun to smack them around and then watch as they cry "Victory".

I never picked on the kids in Special Ed. Maybe I'm just making up for lost time.

[Greg]

Alright, I have gone over a line myself, let's pull back.

DOWN GOES FRASIER!

[knots]

amazing....different board..same crap.....very disappointing.....

phantom quotes....followed by self-declared victory...followed by a silly bet never to be honered....continual condescending comments...oh well at least he's consistent.....:bag:

[StingerNLG]

Honestly Greg, it's time to close the thread. There is nothing else that can come from this discussion.

[Greg]

I agree