THANK GOD things have gotten shaken up! [Archive] - Baltimore Ravens Forums and Message Boards

LBoogy

10-17-2006, 08:10 PM

Maybe Fassell WAS responsible for the horrid offense.

I'm somewhat shocked to learn how many players were discontent with Fassell running the offense. It's surprising to learn that HE could have been responsible for dissent in the locker room and the inexcusible play-calling. I'm glad Billick realized (like many of us) that a drastic change had to take place. I was beginning to go insane because I it seemed that this team is making the same mistakes; but I was wrong. Billick saw it and the players saw it. Thank God.

Even IF Fassell wasn't solely running the offense, a power struggle between two men trying to do two different things can definitely make things unproductive. Hopefully with Billick having SOLE responsibility in the play-calling, we'll see if he can get things under-way. And if he doesn't, he'll take the responsibility and be fired at seasons end.

It seems the firing/resigning of Fassell will make the players happier and the coaches more comfortable. Maybe this will be a breath of fresh air.

I know I'm being a bit optimistic, but this is something that seemingly needed to happen. A drastic change. Well, we got one. I think the offense will improve. Put me down for that. I don't think it can actually get any worse. Billick is an intelligent guy and MAYBE he can make this a mediocre offense, because that's all we need. Our defense will take care of the rest 9 out of 10 times.

Thoughts?

AZRAVEN

10-17-2006, 08:24 PM

If you care to believe PFT, as was posted on the Insiders site, you can include Neuheisel in the mix. Apparently, he was a source of contention ~ as I say consider the source.

Mista T

10-17-2006, 08:28 PM

Thoughts?

Fisrt the scapegoat is Cavanaugh, now Fassel? :229031_confused2: Bullshit.:laugh:

:T2:

PurpleRulz

10-17-2006, 08:32 PM

Well, it seems our running game disappeared when Fassel arrived. At least with Cavanaugh, we had a running game. Also, Cavanaugh did not have Clayton, Mason, and Demetrius at WR, nor McNair at QB.

Ravenswarrior19

10-17-2006, 08:33 PM

This move is going to go a long way to restore chemistry on our team. As far as bad play-calling, I don't know how much change we will see. But everyone in the locker room knows Fassel was Billick's good friend. By firing him, he made a stand for his players. All these guys have been extra committed this year to sticking together and playing for each other. We've seen it from everyone, most notably 52. And when the team is believing in itself, and carrying a never-say-die attitude, they can be very dangerous.

I hope it all works out. Cuz we are outta outs. If the offense still sucks, and players are now getting mad at Billick, where do we turn then. We could end up the first team start 4-0 and end 4-12. Doom and gloom? Ill put that outta mind till we see what happens.

PurpleRulz

10-17-2006, 08:38 PM

If Billick wants to really shake things up, then lets make another daring move. Let's put Chester in at RG, switch Brown to center, and put Terry in at LG. This move, in my opinion, would significantly upgrade the OL.

LBoogy

10-17-2006, 08:45 PM

Fisrt the scapegoat is Cavanaugh, now Fassel? Bullshit.

I'm not making Fassel out to be the scapegoat. I think that MAYBE the unproductive offense(s) under Billick have been the result of not one guy being solely responsible for the offense. That could have also been the same case with Cavanaugh. Billick may have been disruptive to the OC's, thus NO ONE has ever REALLY had significant control over the offense. I'm not suggesting it's solely Fassel's fault. It's Billick's fault, too. But MAYBE, just MAYBE, with Billick having SOLE control, there won't be so much controversy between the coaches. Maybe it'll be a little bit less of a cluster-fuck.

He understands that his job is in jeopardy. Maybe he'll make the changes, take responsbility, and improve this thing on his OWN. If he doesn't, he's outta here, and we can move the fuck on. Brian understands that.

I'm just glad there was a change. 99% of us realized a significant change needed to be made. It's reassuring to know that we, the fans, aren't the only ones seeing this shit. The players and Billick seemed to have aknowledged it.

Just trying to be a little optimistic.

LBoogy

10-17-2006, 08:46 PM

Rulz, I hear you.

What about Terry at LG, Brown at C, and Chester at RG. Apparently Terry can't play G, but it would be interesting.

I still think the Fassel thing is a start. I'm glad our staff is beginning to realize that what they were doing wasn't working.

RockyMRaven

10-17-2006, 09:02 PM

I'm not making Fassel out to be the scapegoat. I think that MAYBE the unproductive offense(s) under Billick have been the result of not one guy being solely responsible for the offense. That could have also been the same case with Cavanaugh. Billick may have been disruptive to the OC's, thus NO ONE has ever REALLY had significant control over the offense. I'm not suggesting it's solely Fassel's fault. It's Billick's fault, too. But MAYBE, just MAYBE, with Billick having SOLE control, there won't be so much controversy between the coaches. Maybe it'll be a little bit less of a cluster-fuck.

He understands that his job is in jeopardy. Maybe he'll make the changes, take responsbility, and improve this thing on his OWN. If he doesn't, he's outta here, and we can move the fuck on. Brian understands that.

I'm just glad there was a change. 99% of us realized a significant change needed to be made. It's reassuring to know that we, the fans, aren't the only ones seeing this shit. The players and Billick seemed to have aknowledged it.

Just trying to be a little optimistic.

:iagree: :iagree:

Billick hasn't called the plays himself for a long time. As you said, he understands that he is putting his job on the line by doing this, but if he didn't do it, his job would've been on the line anyway. At least now he has control, for better or worse.

PurpleRulz

10-17-2006, 09:12 PM

Billick won't be the only HC that calls his own plays. See Andy Reid and Bill Parcells. Also, Gary Kubiak in Houston. Brad Childress also calls his own offensive plays.

Art-Florida

10-17-2006, 10:22 PM

darb72

10-17-2006, 10:47 PM

Put Terry in at LG? Perfect plan.

Let's put an offensive lineman who lacks the leg drive to move a pile in at guard. That way when we need to pick up those short yards the defensive tackles can just cut his knees and cause a pile right there at the line of scrimage.

Terry would be as bad as Vincent at guard. He just lacks the physical skills to play that posistion.

darb72

10-17-2006, 11:14 PM

It would appear, Trap, that you are correct.

I don't bother reading Preston anymore but more than one person has brought up the fact that Tub 'o Goo said the coaches were arguing amongst themselves.

duffybr

10-17-2006, 11:57 PM

Fassel said he was running billicks offense not his. Cavanaugh was doing the same , but with zeus and ricard to run block. without them the running ganme has suffered.

brown does not know enoug to make the calls the center has to make. So I think we are stuck with flynn. replacing vincent would be good i think. i dont see how chester could be much worse.

Brandon

10-18-2006, 04:52 AM

Also, keep in mind that even some of the other coaches assistants were questioning Fassel's work ethic.

It looks like it wasn't just the players who were discontent with him either.

bassgtrst

10-18-2006, 05:16 AM

I think that starting Chester this year would be a big mistake unless we absolutley had to.

This guy was only an OL for 1 year at OU. You think that putting him in an NFL line is going to improve that line? He needs a year or 2 of offseason conditioning to bulk up.

While I think Chester will be good, but he's not physically ready yet.

Ravenswarrior19

10-18-2006, 12:13 PM

As far a Fassel not being able to install his own offense:
Don't forget that in '04 he was here a Boller's personal dinner buddy. At the end of the season, Boller was showing a lot of improvement. When Fassel was named OC for '05, you couldn't expect the braintrust (BB & Associates) to allow him to tear it all down and start from scratch. What would that have done to Boller and the core of Mason, Clayton, Heap, and JLew that were still adapting to the new "west coast" style. We brought in McNair for this year and has him learn the Billick system, rather than having everyone start over with the Fassel system. Other than the change in language (or verbage as BB likes to say) probably 80% of the plays are the same anyway. And that is true throughout the whole league. Its all Bill Walsh's numbered route combinations. Just with differnent names.

Ravenswarrior19

10-18-2006, 12:16 PM

And I agree with Bass. We don't know anything about Chester- other than he's a former TE and Oz etc. have faith in him to be good someday. No way could we throw him out there now.

sandiegosean

10-18-2006, 04:53 PM

Fisrt the scapegoat is Cavanaugh, now Fassel? :229031_confused2: Bullshit.:laugh:

:T2:

First off Billick never made Cavs the scapegoat, that was a Biscuit decision.

Art-Florida

10-18-2006, 06:01 PM

How can anyone accurately predict how Chester would do until he is thrown out there for a few series? Any of these theories ring a bell?

"Chester Taylor will never be a full time back in this league"

"Pashos sucks, cut him"

"Rabach is no better than Flynn"

"Adalius Thomas, strictly a second stringer"

bassgtrst

10-20-2006, 11:39 AM

Well Art the thing is,

Those players had the size and knowledge to play their positions. Yet we still overlooked them. Taylor, Pashos, Rabach, and AD all played their NFL positions in college. And none of them were the great players (minus Pashos) they are now in their rookie years.

My exception being Pashos. Since when was he a great player? Besides he is on IR. Not our fault.

After QB, Center is the most important offesive position. You cant put an undersized rookie in there who only played Center as a Senior (may be wrong) into an NFL game and expect him to make the linecalls and pick up blitzes. Not to mention block huge DTs the likes of which he had never seen in college.

If things get desperate, go for it. But for now you keep Chester on the bench.

Art-Florida

10-20-2006, 01:57 PM

bassgtrst

10-20-2006, 03:20 PM

Now and then, fine. Once the season is lost.

IMO first place teams dont rotate in project OL in regular season games.

If Chester were to come in for 1 play and on that play a DT got through and ended McNairs season it wouldnt be good. There would always be the question of why did we have to put him in.

highwater

10-20-2006, 05:23 PM

If Chester were to come in for 1 play and on that play a DT got through and ended McNairs season it wouldnt be good. There would always be the question of why did we have to put him in.

You make Chester seem like a complete bum -- wasn't he a second round draft pick? Why would anyone question his presence in a game? It's not as though no other team in the league plays highly drafted rookies.

I'm not suggesting we start him, but to go to the opposite end of the spectrum and suggest that he never even get on the field is a little extreme. Why not give him some playing time? If the FO didn't think he could play, they would not have drafted him when they did.

And incidentally, if McNair got clobbered while Chester was in the game, it wouldn't be any different than McNair getting clobbered with our veteran OL in the game.

purplepoe

10-20-2006, 05:41 PM

Just take a look around the league at teams that have or are starting offensive lineman taken during and after the 2nd round.

It's almost commonplace.

Except for the Ravens.

And it's annoying as hell.

PP

StingerNLG

10-20-2006, 05:53 PM

Edit: Damnit PP, you beat me to it again! :)

wasn't he a second round draft pick?

This is what gets me. It seems like only in this system second round picks and above don't see the light of day unless special circumstances warrant. All across the league on other teams 2nd and 3rd round picks get on the field and contribute. D'Qwell Jackson, DeMeco Ryans, Chad Jackson, Marcus McNeil, Anthony Fasano, and more; all playing.

What about our recent 2nd rounders?? Dan Cody? Adam Terry? Chris Chester? Dwan Edwards? Dwan is the only one that really saw the most playing time. Other than that where has Cody been? Adam Terry can't even get rotated in unless JO gets hurt. Hell, 4th round pick Jason Brown gets more playing time than Chris Chester.

All Devard Darling did in preseason was go in and catch the ball and make plays. Yet Clarance Moore gets into the game to make a play the entire world saw coming, and DVD really hasn't even been activated that much.

So maybe now that Billick is taking over, maybe we'll see some of these guys actually play and contribute?

LBoogy

10-20-2006, 08:57 PM

You guys are exactly right. Why is it that every 2nd rounder we've taken over the past few years has either been a project or a guy that has seen no playing time?

Why draft projects in the 2nd round? Terry, Edwards, and Chester were all taken too high. Not to say I've given up on Terry or Chester, but if you're going to take a guy in the 2nd round he better be GOOD enough to start IMO.

There are plenty of starting offensive lineman in the NFL that are rookies. Some of them (Boothe from Oakland) were even drafted on the second day. I like building for the future, but it seems that the future for the Ravens is going to be a little too late.

Ray, Ogden, Jamal, MA, McNair, CMac, Rolle, AD, and a few others aren't getting any younger. Not taking immediate contributors in the 2nd and 3rd rounds is beginning to show. Flynn and Vincent don't belong on the field and NEITHER did Mulitalo. IF we're going to be taking OL's in the 2nd, they better damn well be able to get on the field and play. Some of the great players on this team won't be playing here in 2-3 years when people like Chester and Terry MIGHT be able to contribute.

bassgtrst

10-21-2006, 07:04 AM

Those other teams start guys that have been OL all throughout their college years.

You just dont start a guy that only played Center for 1 year at college on an NFL OL.

Thats my point. I have nothing against starting rookie OL, if he had played OL at OU for 4 years I would have no exception.

JMHO

AZRAVEN

10-21-2006, 04:05 PM

Then why do you draft a guy with those credentials as high as we did? That seems to me to throw him into the "project" catagory with all the other "projects" taking up non productive space on the roster. I understand Ozzie drafts by BPA but I seriously question the system they utilize in determining BPA. Unfortunately, the same can be said all over the roster, a bunch of projects that won't see the field for years. Where has Cody been all season, he was supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread when we drafted him. The more things change the more they stay the same!

Dusty728

10-21-2006, 04:52 PM

The more things change the more they stay the same!

Thats why I would like to see a BIG shake up and have Billick and Oz kicked to the curb.

If you have a job to do and year after year after year you fail to get the job done. Not only do you not get the job done but you don't even buy the right tools to do it. You spend money on tools that may work but you keep them locked in a toolbox. And when people complain you act like they don't know crap and your doing what needs to be done to finish and the job 99% done.

COME ON. Could you get away with that at your job?
enough is enough