Can Billick improve the offense: Why or Why not?

[Fanman]

IMO I don't think BB can improve the offense and even get them to be average b/c it's his system. He's had a major hand in the offense since he got here and it has been crappy ever since. So why would he alll of a sudden be able to have some miraculous awakening with the offense now?

Tell me why you think he can or can't turn the offense around.

FM

[Losac]

I'm willing to wait and see. All signs point to no, but he does have much better personnel on O now than he did in 99 when he was calling plays. At this point, any sort of change is good. It's obvious Fassel wasn't getting the job done and some of the players didn't respect him.

I see this as win-win. If Billick does well and turns the offense around, we'll be in for an exciting playoff season. If he doesn't, he'll be fired at the end of the season and we can look forward to the end of Billick-ball and horrible offenses.

[Greg]

I think he can, if the stories of Fassel being disinterested and not putting in the hours are true then this can only help.

I am not one who gets too fired up about play calls, but I think STRATEGY is important and I don't think we have had a good one. This past Sunday, opening with 3 straight passes is a perfect example. We need to pound the ball and we haven't. Yes, I know, the running game hasn't been great, but there is occasionally a spark and we need to let our huge OL beat up on DLs for a while at the beginning of games.

I also don't think we have been schemed to go after the weaknesses of other teams. This might have to do with not enough hours in the film study of the opposition. If so, we might have a little better plan of attack on Sundays.

[DrUnk]

I, sadly, have the feeling that we will know the answer after one set of downs.

[PARavensJeff]

I hope that the change works. Billick is a smart guy & even though this has been his offense since he came, he didn't have the weapons we have now when he 1st got here. He had Water Buffalo/Case/Banks as his QB, Priest Holmes, before he was really good, as the RB. Ismail was here for his 1st year. Now we have Mason, Clayton & Williams, who I think will be good. Heap, Jamal, who may have something left, who knows. Maybe he can make it work w/ McNair. If Fassel wasn't doing the job like he was supposed to, this will be for the better. There is no one more motivated than someone who's playing for or coaching for their job.

[skimmy]

I think Billick has the proper motivation to put in the time to improve the offense. I'm not sure that we have any proof that he can make a difference other than how well the offense performed in the second half of 1999 (if he was still calling the plays then).

One small thing I am concerned about is Billick's animated sideline behavior. How will his usual hooting and hollering be taken by the players and coaches now that he is directly responsible for calling the plays. When a player misses a block and the RB or QB gets blown up in the backfield, how will Billick's tantrums be taken by that offending blocker? How will Mason's displeasure with the offense be taken by the head coach? I know that Billick was like this for years before, but he wasn't as directly involved with the players as much then as he will be now. On the opposite end of that, hopefully with Billicks comfortable relationship with the offensive players no longer cushioned by an OC it will force more action and adjustments because the head honcho is no longer having information filtered through other voices.

Another thing I am hopeful for is the return of the running game. Whether we all hated him or not, the rushing attack that the Ravens fielded when Cavanaugh was the OC was pretty effective. Maybe with Billick at the helm the Ravens can recapture some of that magic they once had. The line in 2001 was poor and riddled with injuries and on top of that the running backs behind that line were mediocre as a whole, but together they managed to string together some pretty good games running the ball to get into the playoffs. I am convinced that the playcalling must have had something to do with that... I just hope it wasn't all Cavanaugh.

Just knowing that Billick is as alarmed and worried about his job security to make some coaching changes during the season is enough for me to believe that Billick may be willing to make other changes he would have otherwise not made like deposing Mike Flynn from his starting role or being more creative/selective with offensive playcalling.

[AZRAVEN]

No, I don't believe Billick will be able to improve the offense. For one thing, as has already been said this has been Billick's playbook all along, it hasn't worked in six years and with two OC's why assume it will suddenly change. Pounding the ball hasn't worked at all the past two years why continue a failed plan? Like it or not Jamal Lewis is simply not the same back he was in 2003. Right now it appears to me that the strength of this offense, assuming there is one, is our receiving corps so I think we should "shift our paradigm" and focus on the passing game. Since McNair can't throw farther than five yards :261695: obviously we will need to employ the now famous dink and dunk offense. The biggest factor to me, however, is Billick has lost control of this team ~ the inmates are in charge and I don't see that changing. They are so busy running their mouths that they can't hear anything else and for that we can thank Bisciotti and his "play nice with the boys" edict.

[flraven]

I tend to agree with both losac and Greg. Its a win-win for the team, because now Billick has his fate in his hands. Like Greg said, perhaps a different strategy and actually setting up a scheme to exploit the opponents might work better than what we've been doing.

I don't think its a case of the inmates running the asylum; these are veteran players who are seeing a great start to the season slowly circling the bowl. They want to stop that and so does Billick.

[Mr OC]

I think that the offense will improve; we've already seen seeds of change in the play calling. Hopefully the progression will continue. As far as the inmates running the asylum--I think if you hire good people you need to listen to them when they have concerns that affect the company. I think it would have been pig-headed to not have listened.

[Mobtown]

It would be damn near impossible for the O to get worse...so I am going to say taht Billick will make a difference.

[Mista T]

Doubtful. It's been Billick's system all along. He doesn't have Randall Cunningham or Brad Johnson throwing to Cris Carter & Randy Moss anymore. Not even Tony Banks throwing to Qadry Ismail.

I don't know if someone else can do more with the talent that we have, but I doubt that stubborn, arrogant Bilick can change his spots in a hurry to reverse the slide.

First thing he should do is re-sign Alan Ricard!

:T2:

[Greg]

The system isn't the issue, many teams employ the same system. The plays in Billick's playbook are in everybody else's.

It is a combination of the OL talent and the strategy employed in the game plan. We need to pound the ball to wear down the opposing DL, at least for a few series. This is how we can make our weak OL at least adequate.

Fassel's plan was to play to the strengths of the skill players and that is fine except it ignored our OL weakness. Our first course of action needs to be to run right at the best pass rusher on the other side and let our OL beat on him.

Maybe this won't help, but it can't hurt.

[highwater]

One small thing I am concerned about is Billick's animated sideline behavior. How will his usual hooting and hollering be taken by the players and coaches now that he is directly responsible for calling the plays. When a player misses a block and the RB or QB gets blown up in the backfield, how will Billick's tantrums be taken by that offending blocker? How will Mason's displeasure with the offense be taken by the head coach?

I have no idea why anyone should think this will be a problem -- head coaches, from high school on up, tend to get in the faces of players who play badly. Who cares if Jamal whines like a whimpering bitch if he doesn't like the number of carries he gets? He's not the coach! Same goes for Mason.

I think Billick taking over the play calling is probably a good move, but the players need to shut up. Go out there and play.

[PeterB58]

I don't know if someone else can do more with the talent that we have, but I doubt that stubborn, arrogant Bilick can change his spots in a hurry to reverse the slide.You mean the same stubborn and arrogant guy that (reportedly) listened to his players and his coaching staff and showed one of his long-time friends the door?

First thing he should do is re-sign Alan Ricard!You mean the player that was injured and that none of the other 31 teams deams worthy of a roster spot?

[Ravenswarrior19]

I sure do hope they get better. And I have absolute faith that Billick will do everything he can to make them better. Afterall, his ass is on the line. But hoping to see Mike Flynn on the bench is just not realistic. We don't have anyone to replace that weathervane. Wish we had gone after Kevin Mawae in the offseason.

[larrylater]

I think Billick can improve the offense, he certainly has desperation on his side and this is apparently what the players want so they'll be motivated. I think the Fassel firing streamlines the process on gameday and this will help us. There are some huge limitations though, the O-line is suspect at best and McNair has looked pretty bad for the most part. If the Cleveland d-backs knew how to catch, we'd be sitting at 3-3 and even more people would be peeing down their leg. We haven't shown that we can beat anybody downfield and until we do, we'll see 8-9 in the box and lots of blitzing. Also, I understand the frustration of Jamal, Mason and others but airing it in public is not the way to handle it and sets a very bad precedent for this team. These guys screw up too and Billick has never thrown them under the bus in public.

[FadeToBlack]

If you believe the offensive line is the problem and has been for years, then it won't matter who calls the plays.

An offense that can't run the ball can't move the ball.

[bobw2829]

No - unless Billick can get out on the field and protect the quarterback, get open on pass plays, run for 4.0+ yards on 1st down, and throw accurate passes. Scheme, playcalling, whatever - doesn't matter. Offensive woes can be mostly attributed to the lack of execution of the players on the field IMO.

[sandiegosean]

I think he can help even though we're limited with what we can do because of the line. It's obvious that the players had no respect for Fassel, so the change alone should help.

[GreenWave52]

Yea, I think it will improve; but I don't know by how much. If Billick can get us 10 places better. from 28 to 18 we will be tough to beat. That isn't even top half in the league and I think it's a reasonable goal.

[StingerNLG]

I hope that this changes things on offense or we're going to be screwed, and next year we'll have a new head coach. This has to be the final straw.

Can Billick do it? I really don't know. This has still been his offense, his playbook, his way. His OC's have appeared to have been simply calling his plays. Or have they?

We'll know in NO. If we start seeing play action all over the place, or GASP, a screen pass or two, then we'll know Billick has a different approach. I'm just not sure yet. Billick is the only thing that hasn't changed, and the results have been the same.

[flraven]

How about the receivers stop running 6 yard routes when its 3 and 8? Hopefully, they won't face too many third and long situations. I know its naive to think they never will, but if they pound the defense with some 3-4 yard gains on 1st and 2nd, then 3rd down play calls won't be so obvious.

[PeterB58]

If it is primarily a lack of talent at key positions (such as OL), then no, Billick cannot improve the offense. Of course, you then need to question is wheter this problem is the fault of the chef or the one buying the groceries? But that is a post for a different day.

If the talent is present; then it is a matter of the coaching staff doing their homework in terms of gameplanning towards the Ravens strengths and then putting the players in the best position to execute that gameplan. It now appears that that lack of planning or properly configuring the gameplan to the players was at the root of much of the frustration (both spoken publicly and behind closed doors) within the organization.

I certainly think their are talent issues on some areas of the team, but I also think that I've seen enough to show me that the team can mitigate this risk and move the ball and score points.

So yes...I think Billick can improve the offense.

[RAVENOUS52]

Unlike Marty Chokenheimer, I beleive that Billick is fully capable of " changing his spots" and leading the offense in a positive direction.

Jamal tends to run well inside domes and will be fresh after the bye against the Saints (although his fumbling is problematic), so we may as well pound him all day... After 2 or 3 quarters of being hammered by our 3-headed ground attack, New Orleans may be ripe for their first dome loss since it reopened...If we keep our turnovers to a minimum, we're golden...

[PeterB58]

How about the receivers stop running 6 yard routes when its 3 and 8?This is often cited as a criticism of the Ravens offense. And I think it is mis-placed.

The defense on the field is also aware of the first down marker.

Most defensive backs outside of Donny Brady are willing (in fact coached) to defend against the routes past the 1st down marker and to allow the underneath (or check-down) routes.

Many 3-and-long pass completions that result in a first down start with the receiver catching the ball short of the sticks and "making a play". Don't believe me?....the next non-Ravens game make a note to focus in on where the receivers catch 3-and-long pass plays.

[Fanman]

What I have yet to see in Billick's offense since he got here was a game plan that exploited a weakness on the opposing defense...whether it be the line, LBS or secondary. Every D has a weakness somewhere. Carolina saw ours as Samari Rolle; they went after him all day and it won them the game.

The other big complaint I have is halftime adjustments...it never happens. Where is the plan B?

FM

[braven98]

I will wait and see also. There is to much talent on this team and the way you get results in any business is to shake things up.

[ExiledRaven]

This is what I have.

If you're expecting a new offensive philosophy, I think you're out of luck. This has always been Billick's offense. The difference now is that he's calling the plays. He also doesn't have Robert Smith, Randy Moss, Chris Carter, and Randall Cunningham anymore. That's arguably the best group of pure talent in those positions in the last 10-15 years. There was always a weakness with those guys. How can you cover both Moss and Carter? You can't, throw the bomb. Oh, you think we're going to throw? Pound Smith. The talent on that offense was just silly.

Halftime adjustments I'm not realy sure that's changing either.

Really what needs to happen is adjusting a system that fits what we do well. Problem is that right now we have pieces of lots of things and it's hard to get it together. Jamal can run well, but he really needs a fullback to be effective...but we have heap and 3 good WRs and a QB that plays best when he's just doing pitch and catch down the field.

He's got a really difficult job, for his sake, I wish him luck. I'm not optimistic.

[larrylater]

What scares me is that Brian's stock answer is "I don't know what happened there, I have to look at the film". This pretty much rules out any in-game adjustments unless he has one of those broadband phones. :eek:

[AZRAVEN]

I've been watching Point After a lot this season and that seems to be a common thread with all head coaches... the I don't know what happened, I'll have to look at the film stock answer.
I sure hope I'm wrong and Billick can pull his ass out of the fire but I don't see how he can do it alone and I don't think he has the teams backing.

[Mobtown]

First thing he should do is re-sign Alan Ricard!

:T2:

:eek: :grbac:

Talk about stubborn...

Ricard is BUSTED...



































but he would still be a better use of a roster spot than Moore :ralph:

[Merlin]

I will go out on a limb and say that the offense will be at least 25% better in the next six games than in the last six games by the stat that counts -- total points. We're at 18.3 points a game -- so that's an increase to 23 points / game. If we do that, with our defense we'll be over .500 for those games

There is a HUGE difference between delegating something and having ultimate accountability and going back and doing it yourself.

I think Billick is looking forward to the challenge and hearkening back to his days as an offensive coordinator. He trusts Rex enough not to worry about the defense (can't say the same about special teams). The players will rally around him and execute better. And the repercussions will be immediate -- Jamal sucking -- lets just switch to Musa.

Remember that a number of coaches do this today -- Reid, Shanahan and Parcell to name a few -- so it is doable.

I personally thnk that the Billick haters have lost perspective. Its like hearing my father in law in Philadelphia whine about how bad Donovan McNabb is.

[AZRAVEN]

I realize that all points count and don't get me wrong I'm grateful, but it keeps rumbling in my brain that 13 of our points Sunday could just as easily have dropped to the ground as incomplete passes or worse yet been interceptions. I think we have gotten lucky a lot this season but I don't think we can count on that every week. My concern is, is our offense even as good as the stats have it? As I say, I'll take a win any way we can get it but it just bothers me a bit.
It also bothers me that if Billick can't turn this around fast are the bitching players going to erupt again? I honestly don't think it's entirely the offense being called I think we have problems with execution that aren't going to just disappear. I don't think some players are taking responsibility for their part in all this, it's just to easy to crab about others and lay the blame there. Now that they have run Fassel out how long before Billick is their next target?

[52decleetzu]

The system isn't the issue, many teams employ the same system. The plays in Billick's playbook are in everybody else's.

It is a combination of the OL talent and the strategy employed in the game plan. We need to pound the ball to wear down the opposing DL, at least for a few series. This is how we can make our weak OL at least adequate.

Fassel's plan was to play to the strengths of the skill players and that is fine except it ignored our OL weakness. Our first course of action needs to be to run right at the best pass rusher on the other side and let our OL beat on him.

Maybe this won't help, but it can't hurt.


Rack that Greg,I couldnt have said it better myself.Everyone always wants to focus on the "skill players" and ignore the real root of the problem,the O line.'

If the line cant pass block or open up holes in the running game I dont care if we had LT,Moss or Johnny U back there it wouldnt matter one bit.

[Kaven]

Absolutely true, the offensive line puts limitations on the degree of creativity.

[StingerNLG]

Here's the other issue. So now do the players feel like they have "control" over Billick? Now if Jamal still doesn't feel like he's getting the carries is he going to be able to whine again until Billick gives in? Will the players be able to pretty much run the lockeroom now because they helped get Jim Fassel fired?

[AZRAVEN]

It sounds to me like the players have been running the lockerroom since last season. They came close to getting Billick canned last season, they have gotten Fassel canned this season I'd say it's a safe bet that Billick is already back in the crosshairs.

[skimmy]

I have no idea why anyone should think this will be a problem -- head coaches, from high school on up, tend to get in the faces of players who play badly. Who cares if Jamal whines like a whimpering bitch if he doesn't like the number of carries he gets? He's not the coach! Same goes for Mason.

I think Billick taking over the play calling is probably a good move, but the players need to shut up. Go out there and play.

You're right I agree with you the players should just go out there and play, but Billick isn't in the Bill Parcells mold and the Ravens aren't an organization run like the Patriots under Belichek (the players appear to have more say and power). Billick has portrayed himself as a "player's coach" and the Ravens have went out of their way to be an organization open to the public and media and player friendly. Billick has always had a comfort zone or level of separation from the offense since he's been the head coach even when he did call the plays in 99. I am only saying I can forsee a situation where Billick throws his usual fit and 10 seconds later has to switch gears into OC mode and go over to the offense to discuss something and walla, we'll have ourselves a T.O. moment when one of our players blows up on him. I am not saying I don't think Billick should get into the players faces, but the overblown tirades he goes on might piss off a player and in the heat of the moment they might bite back. The funny thing is that I am a Billick supporter and his tirades usually make me laugh, cause I'm usually yelling and screaming at the TV at the same time. I don't want any of this to happen and I would not like to see the guy get fired.. I just think that maybe he will need to change or tone down his reactions on the sideline if he's going to deal with the players more.

[MrPoeJangles]

I think it will improve. It appears now that the animosity the players were showing was aimed at Fassel and not Billick. Billick saw the same problems the players did, and since Fassel was unwilling to listen, the change was made.

Some are saying the inmates are running the asylum now and that is a problem. If it was just Jamal, I would agree, but I don't think Mason and Ogden are malcontents. For them to be as vocal as they were there must have been some pretty glaring and obvious problems that needed to be addressed. Hopefully once they are, we will see a change, not to a 1998 Vikings, but to a 1999 Ravens.

People tend to forget that in 1999, once the Water Buffalo and Stoney Case fiasco was put to rest, the offense was pretty productive. This was the last year that Billick played a major role in play calling. I would also suggest our offensive fire power is much greater than it was in 1999.

[Fanman]

Billick can shut up all the players whining next game if he does this.

Let Jamal take the vast majority of carries in the first half. Get Mason and Heap involved in the first series...it will open up the running game. If Jamal does well then he will shut up. If not Billick can turn to Musa and MA in the second half.

Make adjustments at half if that game plan doesn't work. The NO defense is not great...we can beat that team if the offense shows up. Because you can bet Cincy will come here in week 9 looking to crush us.

FM

[BUDDAROW]

(snip):
I think Billick taking over the play calling is probably a good move, but the players need to shut up. Go out there and play.

I said the same damn thing on another thread..

Quit yer friggin whinning and DO YOUR DAMN JOB!!!

and remember Jamal, Theres no "I" in TEAM.

oh god, how fuckin lame was THAT!!! :rolling:

[Fanman]

Another thing to keep in mind about Jamal: he knows he is out of a job after this year if he doesn't produce since the Ravens can pull the deal after one year. Jamal's motives for wanting more carries is more financially slanted vs Superbowl slanted if you ask me. He wants a big contract from some team next year...the better stats he puts up the greater chance of some team throwing him lot of cash next year.

FM

[AZRAVEN]

I agree with you Fanman, money is definitely Jamal's primary motivation. Unfortunately, more and more you hear the talking heads questioning whether or not he still has "it". I think he will find it hard to land the big contract he is seeking.

[Fanman]

I think if he has a good to above avg year there are several teams that would take a flyer on Jamal next year:

NY Giants (esp is Barber retires)
NY Jets
Green Bay
Cleveland (they would ditch Droughns)

FM

[AZRAVEN]

I'm sure there are any number of teams that would try him out I just don't think it will be for the money he's envisioning.

[Rochardrik]

No - unless Billick can get out on the field and protect the quarterback, get open on pass plays, run for 4.0+ yards on 1st down, and throw accurate passes. Scheme, playcalling, whatever - doesn't matter. Offensive woes can be mostly attributed to the lack of execution of the players on the field IMO.

I have this to offer. As Billick has said several times recently. "We all(nfl teams) have basically the same plays". But have you noticed that we NEVER ran on 3rd and 1, or 3rd and 2? Have you noticed we NEVER(until sunday) pass on first down? The system just may not be the problem. I know we have been VERY simple in our play calling, But it matters not what plays are used if the SAME play is used ALWAYS in the same situation! Ron Wolf, packers GM, said Brian Billick is the most fearless playcaller in the NFL! That Brian was not afraid to call any play at any time! He also said that play calling is Brian's REAL talent.... Let's see!:bag: :hammer: ;)

[flraven]

I have this to offer. As Billick has said several times recently. "We all(nfl teams) have basically the same plays". But have you noticed that we NEVER ran on 3rd and 1, or 3rd and 2? Have you noticed we NEVER(until sunday) pass on first down? The system just may not be the problem. I know we have been VERY simple in our play calling, But it matters not what plays are used if the SAME play is used ALWAYS in the same situation! Ron Wolf, packers GM, said Brian Billick is the most fearless playcaller in the NFL! That Brian was not afraid to call any play at any time! He also said that play calling is Brian's REAL talent.... Let's see!:bag: :hammer: ;)

I sure hope you're right!

[AA-Raven]

I'll say no, and the reasons is (Pressure)

1. he only made this move to fire Fassel and do the offense on his own cause he realizes he's under (pressure) from either Biscuit, or from himself to perform.

2. (Pressure) the pressure he is going to be under now will either make him very conversative in his calls (which probably will cost us a game or 2) or he will do for broke in decisions in play calling (which could cost us a game or 2)

3. the offense as a whole will be (under pressure) this move has got be be an eye opener to them as well that if they don't perform now with him calling the plays, that he's a goner after this season.

so, in closing I sure as heck hope this offense performs, but for my above mentioned reasons (pressure) I don't think so.