Redskin fans want Boller

[Art-Florida]

From a Washington Redskins board, of all places...


http://media.scout.com/media/image/25/256952.gif Re: OT: Ravens OC resigns dispute over starting QB One of the interesting little tidbits forgotten in the boosting of the McNair signing in the offseason is that Boller appeared to "Get it" in the second half of last season. For whatever reason nobody seemed to notice.

His games during his "Get It" Period:

11/20/05 Vs Pitt: 21 of 36 for 163 yards, 1 TD and 1 Int in 16-13 win over Pittsburgh

11/27/05 @ Cincy: 18 of 32 for 211 yards, 3 TD's and 2 Int's in 29-42 loss

12/04/05 Vs Houston: 17 of 33 for 198 yards, 0 TD's and 0 Int's in 16-15 win

12/11/05 @ Denver: 23 of 39 for 251 yards, 1 TD, 2 Int's in 10-12 loss

12/19/05 Vs Green Bay: 19 of 27 for 253 yards, 3 TD's and 0 int's in 48-3 win

12/25/05 Vs Minny: 24 of 34 for 289 yards, 3 TD's and 1 Int,
in 30-23 win

1/01/06 @ Cleveland: 15 of 36 for 151 yards, 0 TD's and 2 Int's in 16-20 loss.

Then this past week:

10/15/06: 17 of 31 for 226 yards, 3 TD's and 1 Int.

I am guessing the Cleveland finale is what cost him a chance in '06, but am not sure. 5 of his final 7 starts of the 2005 season could and should be described as solid or excellent. Indeed all were excellent in my view save three. Then he plays this sunday and is terrific again.

Basically if you start at his sunday game preceeding thanksgiving last year what you have are eight starts, double it and you have a potential season, what has he done in the seven starts plus this past sundays game?

154 of 268 (just about 59% completion rate) for 1,742 yards and 14 TD's and 9 picks.

Certainly far and away the best he's ever played.

Why noone noticed this seeming light bulb coming on I have no idea. Essentially he gets it now, or at least has given a great sign that he's turned the corner and now and is ready to be an NFL QB. In his last 8 appearances he's looked solid or great in essentially six of them.

I think Fassel is probably right. Why did it take Boller this long (if indeed he gets it). Go back to his time at Cal. Tom Holmoe got one of the best QB prospects to come out of California in half a decade and preceeded to destroy his college career. The only time Boller even got anything resembling a chance in college was with Tedford's arrival in Boller's last season. The season preceeding that I believe Cal went 1-10. Then Tedford came in, and Boller was one of the best QB's on the west coast instantly but still it was only one season of quality work in his entire college career after basically working in a joke offense with a joke coach the previous three years. That would explain why his learning curve might be a bit long, much like KRob, if you only really have one season of quality college experience, you're probably gonna be a bit behind the curve.

[darb72]

I didn't know there was an argument amongst the coaches about who should be the starting QB.

Has anybody else heard this?

[Greg]

I hadn't heard it.

That's a decent synopsis but I think it over-states what he accomplished in those games. That Denver game, despite being better than what McNair did in Denver, wasn't quite as good as the stats indicate.

[StingerNLG]

Link??

[StingerNLG]

Apparently it's not just Redskin fans. Check this out from a COWBOY'S forum:

http://mb19.scout.com/fcowboyupdatefrm10.showMessage?topicID=114937.topic


Am I the only one who thinks this kid can play? Starting at the end of last year he was starting to finally get "it" and he put together some good games, now he comes in to replace the washed up steve mcnair and throw 3 TDs...

If the ravens would rather fool around with old washed up has beens at QB, then I say make a play for him and see if Romo can beat him next year.


I think Kyle Boller is actually a solid young QB. In the right offensive scheme I think he could be really good. IMO he should be starting over McNair. My 2 cents

[/quote]As for Boller, I think he might have a chance now that he's had a chance to sit back and catch his breath for a little bit. If someone were patient with him and really tried to limit his mistakes -- like Shanahan has done with Plummer -- I think he might be a low-risk gamble for someone. You've got to like that he has some athletic ability and the compact release, plus the big arm. [/quote]

[Greg]

I hope he gets a chance again here before he leaves.

[purplepoe]

When your QB is stinking up the joint (i.e. Bledsoe before the Houston game), any other QB looks good.

You can look at stats like these guys have (Stinger did point this out) and say "Gee, that Boller guy was very solid down the stretch last season". But I'll bet they didn't see the first half of say the Cincy game and realize we looked like a JV team.

This happens to announcers as well. There have been numerous telecasts of Ravens away games where I hear the announcers introducing the OL and stating that they are one of the best.

I remember specifically Dick Enberg commenting on how good of a center Mike Flynn is. We all know he sucks.

It goes both ways. Take AD for example. We all know how great of a player this guy is and he's just finally getting recognized. Say he and Joey Porter both hit the F/A market and visit each team in the league and each team had a chance to sign either one. Who do you think most teams' fans would want their team to sign? I'd bet 90% would want Porter even though AD is more versatile and probably an overall better player.

Now, Im not saying Boller can't be a decent QB somewhere, but you have to take what other teams' fans say with a grain of salt.

PP

[Greg]

purplepoe, I agree, I just don't want to let this guy leave without giving him another shot. I think he needed some time without the pressure on him, if he uses this time as he apparently is and gets a jolt of confidence and learns he might just be something.

[StingerNLG]

Of course. Just like we talk good and bad about other QB's in the league. Believe it or not, and contrary to the popular belief, not that many people outside of Baltimore REALLY know Kyle Boller, or have seen him play for a reasonable amount of time. You have the people who do Sunday Ticket, but the majority of fans are able to watch their team, and then see highlights of other teams on SportsCenter.

I think though that also despite what the other popular belief in the Baltimore fanbase is, there are a number of coaches around the league that would be interested in seeing if they could harness that arm Boller has. I firmly believe in 2 years he could go to Kansas City and at the least compete for that job when Trent Green retires. And I'm sure Brad Childress watched the game film from Baltimore/Minnesota last year and could see Boller as a workable possibility when Brad Johnson is ready to call it a career. Both those teams have good offensive lines that could protect him as well.

That's why while I still believe at this point in time that Boller is done as a QB here in Baltimore, it's laughable when people roll out the "there's no head coach in the league that would sign Boller to start for them". There are going to be coaches who think in their system with their OL he could play and win.

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

I hope he gets a chance again here before he leaves.
Me too Greg, me too:rocking:

[StingerNLG]

purplepoe, I agree, I just don't want to let this guy leave without giving him another shot. I think he needed some time without the pressure on him, if he uses this time as he apparently is and gets a jolt of confidence and learns he might just be something.

I just don't see it at this point, IF that whole "the team doesn't believe in Boller" crap that Preston spews all the time is actually true. If it is, then Boller has no chance here anymore. And there are those in the media who simply will never like him, and will always do things to tag him. I hate to bring this up, because it's absolutely against the grain, but our own Aaron Wilson can't write Kyle Boller without calling him "Erratic Kyle Boller". At the same time, he actually called Clarance Moore "imposing". Certain radio hosts continue to call him "awful" no matter what he does, despite the fact every QB in this system has been awful. Preston will never ever in his life give Boller an ounce of credit. And we don't need to go there anymore because it's more than obvious. We even have PFT writing on their site that the reason the defense sucked on Sunday was that they have such contempt for Boller that they "mailed it in".

With all this going on in the city as well as the portion of the fanbase that will never give Boller credit for anything, I just don't see how he gets another shot here. There's simply a hated for the kid that you don't see in other cities. It sucks, but it's true.

[purplepoe]

Stinger

That's why I can't even listen to most shows anymore. The level of ignorance on ALL topics is astounding.

The PFT bullshit was unreal. It was pure speculation with stuff like "we think" and "our opinion". Then people read it and tell their buddies that the team tanked because of Boller.

Next thing you know, Joe Blow at the grocery store is talking about it too. It goes on and on.

I don't think Boller is very good. But I never questioned his heart or his effort.

And you're right, he's done here in Baltimore unless something crazy happens this season where he leads us to something nobody expected.

The next few weeks are the crossroads for this team as we know it. It's sink or swim. To be honest, Im not all that confident we're gonna swim.

PP

[Mista T]

he's done here in Baltimore unless something crazy happens this season where he leads us to something nobody expected

I'm not so sure. Billick may be stubborn and coaching for his job, but I don't think Bisciotti and Oz (assumedly the survivor at the end of this season) are fools. Considering that Kyle had but one season at major college football, then tossed into the lion's den without seasoning, then big parts of two seasons lost: he really hasn't had that many games to mature. And three of his past four games have been good to outstanding.

I would agree that if Billick survives, and Mcnair plays out the season without serious injury or benching, Kyle could well be a Redskin or Chief or whatever.


It's sink or swim. To be honest, Im not all that confident we're gonna swim.

Careful PP, or you may be branded as a heretic, i.e.: "Everytime I log onto this board, I see NOTHING but negativity (http://www.profootball24x7.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1393)" and "That's why I block the ones that are always negative. Life is to short to be that way. People like that are not happy unless they're miserable.":rolling:

:mrt:

[StingerNLG]

Yeah PP, I've really been listening less and less to local radio shows and switching on the ol' XM to catch the Colin Cowherds of the sports world. After a while listening to NST and 1300 get numbing. And does 1090 still even do a sports show outside of broadcasts, because I don't listen to that station at all anymore.

Outside of the Boller is good/bad issue, we tend to agree more than it looks like we do. To me, it's not a matter of Boller sucks or Boller is God. It's just really hard to determine the kid to be a bust, when every other QB that comes into this system becomes a bust, even if they've been to the pro-bowl (Grbac AND Jeff Blake), drafted because they set passing records in the NCAA and their school, or even was a former co-MVP as it is turning out. You always have that damn question of "what if". "What if" Ogden doesn't get flagged for a penalty in Cleveland that nullified that TD, we win. "What if" after Boller trips in Denver he simply gets up and throws the ball away, we win. What if he didn't get hurt in week 1 last year. Those questions are just as well a negative as anything else because you shouldn't have to ask "what if". But the history of QB play in this system has always led me to the belief that Boller isn't as bad as people want to make him out to be. And the answer to that question simply won't come as a Baltimore Raven. It will come when he's under center behind a better OL, or in a system that is more like he had at Cal. I think Denver would be another place he could play because Shannahan did with Plummer what Tedford did with Boller. Now before anyone chimes in, they have Jay Cutler so Denver is not an option; I was just making a point about a system. But to me, Boller's fate in the league is far from sealed. I think it's just sealed with the Ravens, barring a SuperBowl run, which with this offensive line I just don't see possible with any QB outside of MAYBE Michael Vick; but he also can't hit the broadside of a barn with his shitty arm. Did I just say that out loud? :)



It's sink or swim. To be honest, Im not all that confident we're gonna swim.

It sucks to think that way, but I can't disagree. This is what gets me labeled as a "hugger", but to be dead honest the first time I really felt like this offense had a chance to actually win a game without the defense was when Boller came in on Sunday. Watching him move the chains gave some people hope. And when's the last time that's happened with him?

I'm just not confident McNair has the tools anymore to lead THIS PARTICULAR offense. And I want, VERY BADLY, to be proven wrong here. I'd love to come out of the stretch of division games sitting at the top of the division with McNair's QB rating approaching 90 and the offensive putting up numbers like we saw against Carolina. I'd love to sit down with my friends for a road game and say "please, we've got this. Our offense will tear them up." And I'd love to have eat giant crow on this forum and have people tell me I was nuts and had no faith and yada yada. I just don't see how that's going to happen the way things are right now.

[Drkraven]

I think McNair has really helped Boller, guess I will always be a "hugger". His pump fake and play action had me in the stands jaw dropped in amazement. His feet are less happy and he was making his check down reads and smarter decisions.

[Gabrosin]

If Billick remains coach after this season, I expect Boller to get a shot to beat McNair in training camp. If another coach comes in, they might be open to giving Boller a chance, but more likely they're going to want "their guy" straight out of the draft.

Boller's best chance at remaining with this team is for McNair to suffer a more serious injury. With our offensive line, it's a very real possibility. I'd hate to see McNair injured (or Boller injured, as we have zero depth at QB if either happens), but at this point I'll take anyone who wins.

[StingerNLG]

I will go on record here and now and unequivicably state that abolutely, positively, no other coach in the NFL would start Kyle Boller on his football team.

You go right ahead on record. You would be unequivocally wrong. Plain and simple.

Oh, and Harrington right now is starting for Miami. I'm sure that you knew this.

[highwater]

If Billick remains coach after this season, I expect Boller to get a shot to beat McNair in training camp.

I think that depends on how McNair plays the rest of the season. As several of us has pointed out on this board, McNair, aside from a couple of drives, has really not played that great so far. If he resembles the McNair we saw in Tennessee from this point forward, then there will not be a competition next year. But if he continues to struggle, then Boller certainly should have an opportunity to win the starting job next year. In fact, if McNair continues to struggle, there's an outside chance that Boller might take over THIS YEAR.

My preference would be for McNair to get better, because I don't think a QB controversy would do the team much good. And before someone reminds me, yes, I know we had a QB change in our Super Bowl year, and that worked out pretty well. But we've already had some controversy this season with Fassel getting run out, players complaining, and so on, so I don't think a QB debate would be good.

[Dont Know]

Go back to his time at Cal. Tom Holmoe got one of the best QB prospects to come out of California in half a decade and preceeded to destroy his college career. The only time Boller even got anything resembling a chance in college was with Tedford's arrival in Boller's last season. The season preceeding that I believe Cal went 1-10. Then Tedford came in, and Boller was one of the best QB's on the west coast instantly but still it was only one season of quality work in his entire college career after basically working in a joke offense with a joke coach the previous three years. That would explain why his learning curve might be a bit long, much like KRob, if you only really have one season of quality college experience, you're probably gonna be a bit behind the curve.

I had to check that out and sure seems like Tom Holmoe was a disaster to say the least, link (http://www.chem.ucla.edu/~ltfang/comments/sports/fiat_lux.htm), link (http://www.dailycal.org/sharticle.php?id=6964), link (http://www.dailycal.org/sharticle.php?id=3240).

I mean (2001):

Tom Holmoe today is not the same man who was hastily offered and took his first head coaching job on a cold day in January nearly five years ago. He didn't quite know what what he was getting into, and there were times when he didn't know what he was doing.

I rest my case.

Some humor just to highlight how bad he was, link (http://www.squelched.com/tdetail.cfm?num=5), link (http://www.squelched.com/tdetail.cfm?num=157) :rolling:

Story about Jeff Tedford and what he found once he took over at Cal. He seems like a great coach but only coached Boller in his final year, link (http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:0yz9-RZeiCoJ:www.alumni.berkeley.edu/Alumni/Cal_Monthly/September_2004/Waking_up_the_Bears.asp)

Has anyone seen any interviews where Boller has talked about Tom Holmoe and the coaching he received, or as it would seem, never received?

[purplepoe]

Tedford's QB's haven't exactly lit the league on fire.

Trent Dilfer, David Carr, Akili Smith, A.J. Feeley and Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller and Aaron Rodgers.

Dilfer was a major bust in TB and is mediocre at best.

Carr is showing some signs in his 4th year. He's been behind one of the worst lines ever since coming into the league.

Not much to say about Smith.

The Dolphins found out how overrated Feeley was when they dealt a 2nd rounder for him.

Harrington was a nightmare in Detroit and is now starting for Miami after Culpepper went down.

Boller is Boller. We all have our opinions on him.

Rodgers is unknown so far.

Seems to me that Tedford is a great college QB coach. His QBs haven't exactly translated their college successes to the NFL.

PP

[StingerNLG]

Yes, you are wrong. Way, and how. It's just that plain and simple.

[StingerNLG]

Some of that PP is also a product of the system these QB's have gone to. Much like some of us believe that's been Boller's hinderance, you can see that in other teams too.

Harrington. When Harrington left Detroit, a change in QB and that team STILL sucks. Jon Kitna FINALLY eeked out a game there, and they have #1 draft picks at WR all the way around. Now Harrington is at Miami and the fans want him to stay the starter.

Texans - Exactly as you said. If any team in the league actually had a worse OL than us, it's them. And to show you how bad that team really is, they picked 1st and passed up both Reggie Bush and more importantly D'Brickashaw Ferguson to draft a defensive end. Lot of good that did them so far.

Bengals - Joke of the league until Marvin Lewis arrived. Actually more of a joke than the Detroit Lions were if you could believe that.


As for Dilfer, he's always been a backup at best. He's a backup with a Super Bowl ring, nothing more. Given the job in Cleveland and lost it before the year was up.

Aaron Rodgers is quite the ? of the group. No one know's how he'll fair when it's all said and done. At this point he has to be better than Favre is right now. That team has too much loyalty to Brett to ever let Rodgers see the green of the field as long as Favre wants to play.

Coincidence that some of these teams sucked offensively before and after Tedford QB's (minus Cincy)? Even the Ravens.......

[StingerNLG]

Sorry, the minute to admitted to not actually watching games, you lost all credibility to have any kind of discussion with me.

[StingerNLG]

Because I[ve answered your question in 2 other forums. And if you can't read the rest of the threads, then you don't understand the answer.

And again, I don't know what games you have and haven't watched now, so your credibility to talk about any QB play is shot. I could care less about your cable package. Most of us watch every Ravens game. If I'm not sitting in my seat in 515, it's on my TV. If I didn't live in Baltimore, I'd use Sunday Ticket like I do to watch other teams play.

Discussion closed.

[FHRaven]

So Tex doesn't actually watch most of the games? That explains a lot.

[highwater]

However, I could literally write a 10 page dissertation about why Boller will never make it as an NFL starting QB

I think you HAVE done that, many times over. And it's always the same thing.

[Mobtown]

Tedford's QB's haven't exactly lit the league on fire.

Trent Dilfer, David Carr, Akili Smith, A.J. Feeley and Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller and Aaron Rodgers.



Say what you want about the quality of play...but all of those guys, except Smith, have jobs in the NFL.

Name one other school/coach that has 6 QBs currently playing pro ball.



I just don't want to let this guy leave without giving him another shot.


Agree Greg....I still think that Boller has a future in the NFL.

[Greg]

Maybe I cannot afford the Sunday ticket as I am retired and living on a fixed income? Do you honestly think I would not watch the game if I had any kind of opportunity to do so?
Might I suggest a local sports bar that has the ticket.

Please, as noted, we have read your dissertation and 10 pages was just the introduction. Unfortunately after .3 pages the rest of the thesis is the same old thing ad nauseum. And if you ask, no, I don't read a lot of your takes. That one I just quoted, the part quoted is as far as I got.

[knots]

and if a bar does't work for you, might I suggest swapping your ISP for direct ticket...you'll see every game and...you can figure out the rest....

I seem to remember you touting about how great a QB Ramsey was going to be (might have been interspersed with the Suggs is a bust threads)....more proof of your "football" knowledge....Boller is more than just a back-up and he'll prove that here or somewhere else .....

football is a 3d game that is best viewed in person and not through a little 2d box in your room...

[Mista T]

incompetent Boller has been

:rolling:

That makes me laugh! The biggest passing offense we've seen since .............. Boller's last game! Meanwhile, we've got a $33 million bust who can't make a simple fade pass, insufficient arm strenth to zip beyond 20 yards, who has fumbled & stumbled repeatedly and now has 8 INTs.

Now who the term "incomptent" more closely describe?:229031_confused2:

:T2:

[Mista T]

be prepared when the rain comes down on your boy

My boy? :T2: I don't have a "boy". We have one underachieving 4th year guy who still is developing and hopefully can get there as our home grown passer - but he's not there yet. And an over the hill & overpaid has-been.

You probably haven't been around these boards very much, Old Tex 19 whatever. I have been screaming for some cost effective vet help since 2003. To compete with and mentor Boller to see if he can be brought along, otherwise to hopefully win us a few games. e.g. Delhomme could have been had relatively cheaply three years ago, but Bilick didn't want to hurt Kyles' poor little ego by having to compete. Instead, in 2006, the Front Office shot their wad, wrecking our salary cap by overpaying for a guy who is closer to over the hill than he is to being co-MVP.

:T2:

[Heap86]

My boy? I don't have a "boy". We have one underachieving 4th year guy who still is developing and hopefully can get there as our home grown passer - but he's not there yet. And an over the hill & overpaid has-been.


The "Over the hill and overpaid has-been" led us to 4 straight wins, has our 4th year underachieving guy ever done that?

Its funny how a few miracle tipped passes can change someones perception of a player so fast, could you imagine if Clayton did not play that game, what would have happened?

Oh and another thing, did you guys happen to notice that once again Mason dissapeared when Boller was behind center? Atleast McNair spreads the ball out, while Boller sticks with Heap and Clayton.

[StingerNLG]

The "Over the hill and overpaid has-been" led us to 4 straight wins, has our 4th year underachieving guy ever done that?

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO and for the last time.....NO HE HASN'T!!

He's had a couple of last minute heroics to help Matt Stover bail their asses out in Cleveland, and a nice throw to Heap to pull the Chargers game out. He didn't LEAD us to anything in Tampa Bay since the defense allowed oh.......ZERO points. And Oakland?? The offense couldn't score a touchdown except by accident. Remember that tipped ball off Heap's hands that Mason ran over and grabbed to keep that 2 minuted drive alive? I mean, if we're talking about luck and fluke and miracle plays.


Oh and another thing, did you guys happen to notice that once again Mason dissapeared when Boller was behind center? Atleast McNair spreads the ball out, while Boller sticks with Heap and Clayton.

How many touchdowns did Mason have before Boller came in in game 6? Oh yeah, the answer is ZERO. Zero for the year. I'd say Mason hasn't been a big factor all year long.

And spreading the ball out is not something McNair has been doing, unless you count throwing the ball right to opponents too.

It's amazing how before it was "how can you make excuses for Boller", and now the same lot are making a ton of excuses for McNair. I predicted this to perfection, and it's happening.

Led us to 4 wins, and with a QB rating of 67. If this was Boller, it would be that the defense, Matt Stover, everyone else was responsible for 4-2 because just look at Boller's STATS. Now because it's McNair, it's just about wins and losses. I don't remember anyone saying Boller led this team to it's 7-3 start in 2004. Unbelieveable.

Actually, no, totally believable.

[Greg]

Oh and another thing, did you guys happen to notice that once again Mason dissapeared when Boller was behind center?
Mason had over 1000 yards last year and Boller sent him the ball plenty.

On Sunday, Mason was thrown at twice where he could have made a play. On the TD pass, Neuheisel said he could have done a better job of losing his man and that the ball was very well thrown. Did you miss the hot read that Boller threw that hit him in stride? He wasn't looking for the ball so Boller gets an incomplete on it. And on the pick, Boller is trying to get him the ball.

[crazyraven]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO and for the last time.....NO HE HASN'T!!

He's had a couple of last minute heroics to help Matt Stover bail their asses out in Cleveland, and a nice throw to Heap to pull the Chargers game out. He didn't LEAD us to anything in Tampa Bay since the defense allowed oh.......ZERO points. And Oakland?? The offense couldn't score a touchdown except by accident. Remember that tipped ball off Heap's hands that Mason ran over and grabbed to keep that 2 minuted drive alive? I mean, if we're talking about luck and fluke and miracle plays

You really know how to work yourself up into a tizzy. Its fun to watch. I'm wondering if you will call for a mod to lock down this thread too. BTW 4-1 is better than 0-1
...Carry on, Carry on.



http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

[StingerNLG]

This message is hidden because crazyraven is on your ignore list.

EDIT: I had to look. I was right. As usual CR you add nothing. That's why I stopped respecting your opinion.

This message is hidden because Tex Ritter is on your ignore list.

EDIT: I didn't even bother to read.

I've sort of finished wasting my time on the two of you, even though others here feel like they have to waste theirs. But carry on.....carry on. ;)

[highwater]

You really know how to work yourself up into a tizzy. Its fun to watch.

LOL -- talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Your meltdowns are much more amusing.

[crazyraven]

I had to look. I was right. As usual CR you add nothing. That's why I stopped respecting your opinion.

The funny thing is that Sting said he loved me in another thread.


Your meltdowns are much more amusing.

I agree.

[highwater]

The Boller lovers are so desparate CrazyRaven, that they no doubt are hoping Boller never has to play the rest of the season

Stop right there, in mid-sentence -- you're saying that the "Boller lovers" are so desperate that they hope that Boller doesn't play the rest of the season? Do you really not understand how thoroughly and totally ridiculous that statement is?

Real Ravens fans want the team to win, not obsess over the players they don't like.