View Full Version : Let's Face Facts All Of Us
ravens138
11-26-2007, 01:02 PM
It's time to blow up this team and start another way of thinking for the Baltimore Ravens. People always want to jump back to our defense and say we are a good team. We folks as much as a lot of fans will jump on me we are not that good of a team. Many of the current players should go and we start to rebuild. We are the worst offense in the NFL. Our defense can no longer do what we use to do. We all have our favorite players but we shouldn't let that stand in our way to get rid of some of the players.
We still don't have a QB, the running game is about the same when Jamal was here. You might even say it's not as good Jamal has scored more TD's then Willis. The OL is real bad and I'm not impressed with Yanda at all. The LB's missed a lot of pass plays yesterday and in other games. I would not resign Suggs as he is going to want way too much money to keep him.
Now the coaching no leadership at all. Doesn't manage the clock right and has just lost control of this team.
Time to put the hammer down on this team :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:
Sorry folks just saying the way it is.
It's time to blow up this team and start another way of thinking for the Baltimore Ravens.
No way, not necessary. Nobody does this anymore. Not any successful team, anyway. We have some solid youth on this team, a lot of good veterans in the middle of their careers as well as a cast of older guys.
It is an ongoing process. One good draft and a key FA or two and this is a very good team again.
highwater
11-26-2007, 01:13 PM
Calm down, bucky. This is obviously a disappointing season, but we are not the "worst offense in the NFL." Maybe you should get out and watch some more games, or at least read about them.
A lot of us are spoiled, plain and simple. This isn't the season we wanted or expected, but get some perspective.
I have a friend who is a Dolphins fan -- when I meet him for lunch, I don't spend a lot of time complaining about the Ravens.
festivus
11-26-2007, 01:16 PM
My 2c on our major needs, in no particular order:
DE, QB, CB, OT, WR
That's not blowing up the team, but it's a lot to hope for in one off season. We can run, and we can stop the run. But we have problems in the air on both sides of the ball.
I would love a new OC, but assuming we get one he'll need some of these pieces in place before he can succeed.
RavenTD
11-26-2007, 01:22 PM
I have a friend who is a Dolphins fan -- when I meet him for lunch, I don't spend a lot of time complaining about the Ravens.
Now that is a gutted team. No foundation,no structure.No front office a mixed up owner. At least they will now have Ricky Williams toting the rock.I can see the smoke trail on sweeps.
We are bad right now,but not that bad.
BlackSunday
11-26-2007, 03:35 PM
Now that is a gutted team. No foundation,no structure.No front office a mixed up owner. At least they will now have Ricky Williams toting the rock.I can see the smoke trail on sweeps.
We are bad right now,but not that bad.
Clever strategy by the Phish - nobody will want to tackle him b/c the contact high might cause them to fail a drug test.
Clever? Dare I say ...
http://images.usatoday.com/money/_photos/2004/03/08/guiness-inside.jpg
Brilliant!
BS
WxKevin
11-26-2007, 04:06 PM
Blowing up the team is not necessary at all. There are a lot of good young pieces to work with.
I don't understand the comment about Yanda. Everybody and their mother says that it takes an O-Lineman 2 or more years to really adjust from college to the NFL. Yanda is a rookie and has already taken over RT from Terry.
Our O-Line is horrible right now but a good O-Line can be built around Brown, Grubbs and Yanda. The problem with O-Line is that one bad piece makes the whole O-Line look bad. Flynn has always been vulnerable at the middle and JO looks like he mentally retired last year. Fill in those 2 spots and we have an O-Line for many years.
Until you have an O-Line you can't really even talk about a running game. The only reason McGahee got the yards he did against the Chargers is because he is pretty good. Of course you could replace him with a draft pick but unless McFadden drops to the Ravens, that is not happening.
We need a QB. End of story.
Clayton and Williams are decent WRs. We need a big time #1 though. Mason is amazing but he is getting up there in age and can only do some much.
We are set at FB with McClain.
We need a couple of good pass rushers on the D-Line.
Ngata is awesome...as long as he doesn't punch someone in the face.
We need corners.
We are set a both Safety positions. You could upgrade for Landry but we have bigger needs.
LBs is the tricky part. Ray still plays the run just as good as any LB in the league and he is a great motivator. He still has a good 3 years in him. That being said, you need to start looking to replace him in the near future.
Johnson is a nice player. The guy just plays football. You could upgrade their but there are bigger needs.
Suggs is a good pass rushing LB. Is he as good as the money that he is going to command and will get from somebody? Probably not. I would still like to keep him.
We do need to get younger at certain positions. Some positions though we have youth but they are caught behind the Vets that have been here for a while...and maybe too long.
crpravens
11-26-2007, 04:10 PM
Personally we need to get the selfish players out of the locker room and build a "team".. That is what New England did..
purplepoe
11-26-2007, 04:41 PM
Personally we need to get the selfish players out of the locker room and build a "team".. That is what New England did..
How about we get better players.
It's time for people to admit we don't have players that are good enough to lead this team to the promise land.
There are selfish players on every god damn team in the league. Just like there are selfish people at every office in this country.
We need better players.
Period.
PP
flraven
11-26-2007, 04:43 PM
Now that is a gutted team. No foundation,no structure.No front office a mixed up owner. At least they will now have Ricky Williams toting the rock.I can see the smoke trail on sweeps.
We are bad right now,but not that bad.
RavenTD, love the avatar.
Don't you mean Ricky will be "toking on" the rock? :laugh:
Like Greg said above, a good draft and a FA pickup and the team will be good to go. No need to gut the whole team.
I have a friend who is a Dolphins fan -- when I meet him for lunch, I don't spend a lot of time complaining about the Ravens.
We are bad and everytime I start thinking about "blowing up the team" I say wait a second at least were not Miami.
HoustonRaven
11-26-2007, 09:25 PM
No way, not necessary. Nobody does this anymore. Not any successful team, anyway. We have some solid youth on this team, a lot of good veterans in the middle of their careers as well as a cast of older guys.
It is an ongoing process. One good draft and a key FA or two and this is a very good team again.
Amen!!!! :iagree:
Rayvens52
11-26-2007, 09:27 PM
How about we get better players.
It's time for people to admit we don't have players that are good enough to lead this team to the promise land.
There are selfish players on every god damn team in the league. Just like there are selfish people at every office in this country.
We need better players.
Period.
PP
yea and all the bad players are on O, our D is and will be just fine when healthy, but seriously enough with this selfish shit, who cares if they are selfish that is not why we suck and if you think for one second that is why or is even part of the reason you know absoulty nothing about football.
Mista T
11-26-2007, 09:31 PM
Our O-Line is horrible right now but a good O-Line can be built around Brown, Grubbs and Yanda. The problem with O-Line is that one bad piece makes the whole O-Line look bad. Flynn has always been vulnerable at the middle and JO looks like he mentally retired last year. Fill in those 2 spots and we have an O-Line for many years.
I hope that you are right ... but I have my doubts. The OL built around Ogden, Mulitalo, Flynn, Pashos had weaknesses, esp opening holes for Jamal, but it was light years better than the current crew of klunkers when it comes to pass protection. These guys are horrible, and I'm starting to think it's all of them are just average to below average athletes. They are being pushed around by the bottom-feeder DLs of the league.
After focusing the past 3 - 4 games the on the OL's poor play, my opinion of what needs to be addressed in the draft and FA has changed to place the OL as the greatest need, in order:
OL - 1 to 5 of them
CBs - starter & nickel
DE
QB
LB depth
WR burner
That's a good 2 to 3 years worth of rebuilding.:(
UKRaven
11-27-2007, 04:46 AM
"That's a good 2 to 3 years worth of rebuilding.""
Well said - we have no effective cap room to bring in quick fix FA's - which is not the right route anyway.
No matter how good Ozzie it at finding gems, our next draft will be 'thin' as we have a lot fewer picks than we would have wanted - Buffalo will be laughing all the way with the picks they got from us!
It's pain time for now and for the next two years!!!!
Rochardrik
11-27-2007, 08:32 AM
Clever strategy by the Phish - nobody will want to tackle him b/c the contact high might cause them to fail a drug test.
Clever? Dare I say ...
http://images.usatoday.com/money/_photos/2004/03/08/guiness-inside.jpg
Brilliant!
BSMaybe, but this post is boorish!
Rayvens52
11-27-2007, 11:55 AM
"That's a good 2 to 3 years worth of rebuilding.""
Well said - we have no effective cap room to bring in quick fix FA's - which is not the right route anyway.
No matter how good Ozzie it at finding gems, our next draft will be 'thin' as we have a lot fewer picks than we would have wanted - Buffalo will be laughing all the way with the picks they got from us!
It's pain time for now and for the next two years!!!!
That is not true, this is the year of the new cap and I can not recall the change but is large. We will have more than enough cap room for FA, and 2-3 years is only if we do not make a change at QB. We are just 2 to 3 peices away from what we need to be back in the playoffs, stop making this out to be worse than it is.
metro
11-27-2007, 01:22 PM
No way, not necessary. Nobody does this anymore. Not any successful team, anyway. We have some solid youth on this team, a lot of good veterans in the middle of their careers as well as a cast of older guys.
It is an ongoing process. One good draft and a key FA or two and this is a very good team again.
I agree. The Ravens have some promising young players on offense (MaGahee, McClain, Terry, Brown, Chester, Grubbs, Yanda, Clayton) and defense (Ngata, Barnes, Martin). I would like to see a new offensive line coach. I haven't been impressed with Foester (as OL coach) since he's been here. To me, it seems that the line has too many breakdowns. Maybe someone that is more knowledgeable about offensive line play can comment on this.
The Ravens need playmakers on offense and defense. The Ravens needs going into the offseason are QB, WR (a true #1 WR that can stretch the field), TE depth, RB depth, OL depth, DE, DL depth, LB, CB and SS.
A good draft next year will go a long way toward building a foundation for continued success. The goal is to build a championship team. It will take a few good drafts to build that team. The past two drafts were promising. The Ravens just need to keep building on those drafts.
camdenyard
11-27-2007, 01:45 PM
I think this team needs changes in three areas.
1. Players - We need a QB who hasn't been poisoned by this pathetic offensive system, a cover CB, and a DE who can pressure the passer. More LB depth would be nice too.
2. A new offensive system. Not just a new OC, a whole new approach to come with him. If Billick is to stay on, this is an absolute. Every player should take his 8,000 play playbook to Owings Mills on December 31, pile them up out back, and Bisciotti dump gasoline on them and light them up. I do not want Billick to design plays, create offensive gameplans or call plays. Ever. Again.
3. A new attitude. There are too many "me" players. They are undisciplined, and they lack the killer instinct that they had in 2006.
RustonRifle
11-27-2007, 01:51 PM
I think this team needs changes in three areas.
1. Players - We need a QB who hasn't been poisoned by this pathetic offensive system, a cover CB, and a DE who can pressure the passer. More LB depth would be nice too.
2. A new offensive system. Not just a new OC, a whole new approach to come with him. If Billick is to stay on, this is an absolute. Every player should take his 8,000 play playbook to Owings Mills on December 31, pile them up out back, and Bisciotti dump gasoline on them and light them up. I do not want Billick to design plays, create offensive gameplans or call plays. Ever. Again.
3. A new attitude. There are too many "me" players. They are undisciplined, and they lack the killer instinct that they had in 2006.
Hey :thumbup: Great post. .
RavenTD
11-27-2007, 03:11 PM
RavenTD, love the avatar.
I saw the pic,and was feeling sick to my stomach after watching the Charger game.So spliced the two together with my new sig line.
Don't you mean Ricky will be "toking on" the rock?
Yes that was the punchline I was looking forward. I hear Ricky Weedillams is now out for the season.Maybe POT will help take the pain away.
Sports Steve
11-27-2007, 05:33 PM
Do know if the word blow up is correct. However there are several changes that have to be made in the off season. The secondary is weak and we should look for a real shut down CB in the draft. The OL is also a big question JO will be gone for sure. We need to get much stronger. Ravens should look for another good lineman around the 4th pick. They also need a coach to run the offense as Billick just can't. It certainly will be real interesting in the off season.
:jester: :jester:
Dont Know
11-27-2007, 06:37 PM
2. A new offensive system. Not just a new OC, a whole new approach to come with him. If Billick is to stay on, this is an absolute. Every player should take his 8,000 play playbook to Owings Mills on December 31, pile them up out back, and Bisciotti dump gasoline on them and light them up. I do not want Billick to design plays, create offensive gameplans or call plays. Ever. Again.
I think you will get your wish, at least my interpretation of Billick speak. :nerd:
B-more Ravor
11-28-2007, 02:30 PM
That is not true, this is the year of the new cap and I can not recall the change but is large. We will have more than enough cap room for FA, and 2-3 years is only if we do not make a change at QB. We are just 2 to 3 peices away from what we need to be back in the playoffs, stop making this out to be worse than it is.
The Cap will go up $7M from $109M to $116M.
The Ravens, as presently assembled, will not have a lot of cap room - and certainly not enough to sign any major FAs.
http://www.profootball24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=46&id=1989&view=archive
B-more Ravor
11-28-2007, 02:33 PM
"No matter how good Ozzie it at finding gems, our next draft will be 'thin' as we have a lot fewer picks than we would have wanted - Buffalo will be laughing all the way with the picks they got from us!
We should still have 9 draft picks. We had 7, less a 3rd (McGahee) and 5th (Gaither), but we should pick up 4 comp. picks for the FA losses of AD, Pashos, Mughelli and Franklin (we signed no UFAs of any consequence).
festivus
11-28-2007, 02:43 PM
Ravor, while we are lucky enough to have your attention, the article linked gives $4m as the cap figure for cutting/releasing McNair. Is that correct? I thought I read a report that the number was lower.
Good to hear from you.
B-more Ravor
11-28-2007, 02:53 PM
Ravor, while we are lucky enough to have your attention, the article linked gives $4m as the cap figure for cutting/releasing McNair. Is that correct? I thought I read a report that the number was lower.
Good to hear from you.
The $4M is his base salary for 2008. If he is cut, that amount won't have to be paid to him, but from a cap perspective, that "savings" will get eaten up by the acceleration of the unaccounted for bonus money (essentially 3/5ths of the $12M in bonus money he's gotten over the last 2 years).
His present 2008 cap number is $6.45M. So, if he cut before June 1, that bonus acceleration will actually cost them $900K more, since that figure is $7.35M. That is the amount that will count against the cap if he is released prior to June 1.
If he is released after June 1, then they will save the $4M in cap space, with only $2.45M counting against the 2008 cap (which is the 2008 pro-rata share of the bonus money), but will get hit with $4.9M in dead money against the 2009 cap (which represents the final 2 portions of pro-rata bonus money).
festivus
11-28-2007, 04:49 PM
Thanks Ravor. Seems like a lot of money. *groan*
I personally don't think the team needs to be "blown up", but there are some holes that need to be plugged. DE, CB, QB, and maybe a new blocking TE are my thoughts for spots that need to be filled. I don't expect much for next year, but I'll keep my head up.....
B-more Ravor
11-30-2007, 11:18 AM
Thanks Ravor. Seems like a lot of money. *groan*
Yes, it is. I'm still not convinced that he won't be back in 2008. After all, with not a lot of cap space, how are they going to bring in another QB (if they aren't going for a major overhaul of the roster). But, I do see the logic of cutting ties with him now and totally wiping him off of the books for 2009 and beyond - even if it costs them an extra $900K this year.
Another option would be to pursue a paycut with him - especially if he is going to be the back-up (as the Skins did with Brunell this past year). That would allow them to lower his 2008 cap number and get one more year's worth of pro-ration out of the way. Then they could cut him after June of 2009 and take cap hits of $2.45M in 2009 and 2010.
Dont Know
12-01-2007, 02:05 AM
I wasn't too pessimistic at first, but after reading this article (http://enterprise.southofboston.com/articles/2007/12/01/news/sports/sports02.txt) The Crazy Newshound found I am not too optimistic anymore.
“Quarterback, defensive back, linebacker,” DeCosta answered when asked his team's biggest needs. “If (Arkansas running back Darren) McFadden's there when we pick, we'll take him, I promise you that. We have a lot of needs.”
And even more troubling
We played four games without our starting cornerbacks (Chris McAlister and Samari Rolle) and I guess I didn't do a good job of bringing in younger guys because they haven't played well. I take the blame for that.”
OriAl
12-01-2007, 07:11 PM
A good offensive line makes a QB better, even Boller. Assuming we have the pieces of a decent OL, we're in greater need of a shutdown corner and linemen who can pressure QBs than we are of a QB.
RavenLisa
12-02-2007, 11:01 AM
Blow up I don't know if that is the right move. However we are not as good as we think we are.
ExiledRaven
12-02-2007, 11:20 AM
First: the offensive line flat out needs to play better, it is embarrassing period.
Once that gets fixed, I think the offense does really well. Problem with the team is that the lineman aren't spaced out in age....suddenly there is a whole line of first year guys or a geriatric line of guys who can't play anymore.
See if the line can get things together and learn to be more effective. Will the team lose Jason Brown to a monster contract based on all this money getting thrown at guards? (Man would that hurt). Figures the weakest spots on the line are the most important: Tackle and Center.