Boller vs. McNair: Road Statistics [Archive] - Baltimore Ravens Forums and Message Boards

darb72

11-03-2006, 11:14 PM

Wow. Great find FTB. Way to pick and choose stats.

So just to be clear on the hypocrisy, when a "Hugger" picks and chooses games it's because they're trying to make Boller look good.

When one of you... people... do it it's to show the truth?

It order to be fair, why don't you bother showing us the entire seasons stats. That is unless of course you can't find them.

Oh wait a minute. I forgot that you... people... refuse to admit that there is something either wrong with this system or that we have had the worst QBs in the NFL for the last seven or eight years.

Why don't you try posting Boller and McNairs last four games in a Ravens uniform?
Care to show us McNairs stats for the year?

Yeah that's kind of what I expected from y'all.

crazyraven

11-04-2006, 06:50 AM

Wow. Great find FTB. Way to pick and choose stats.
This is coming from the guy who went out of his way to include AW into a "combined" stat total with Kyle Boller. Given the fact that he hates "RADIO", well lets just say its real easy to see that Darb is the one Picking and Choosing stats to fit his argument.

Oh wait a minute. I forgot that you... people... refuse to admit that there is something either wrong with this system or that we have had the worst QBs in the NFL for the last seven or eight years.

Why don't you try posting Boller and McNairs last four games in a Ravens uniform?
Care to show us McNairs stats for the year?

Yeah that's kind of what I expected from y'all.
The system regardless of how bad it is, it was capable enough to be part of a superbowl team and go to 3 playoffs with 3 different QBs. Maybe you're right but when we have a QB like Mcnair I'd like to give it a little more time to develop. If we were 2-5 You'd be on the money with your analysis but at this point we are 5-2 and there seems to be a change in the way the offense is playing.

This a road game comparison thread. The stats have been posted. Debate them or admire them. Talking down to us doesnt change the road numbers it only enforces them.

the silence (aside from darbs melt) is deafening

RavenDavey

11-04-2006, 06:56 AM

Hey FTB...........Please include the defensive stats for those same games.

How many yards allowed?
How many points scored against us?

Please include the big picture to put this into perspective.

Tspot-D-Ravenator

11-04-2006, 07:05 AM

Can you give me a "Dropped Pass" stat???

crazyraven

11-04-2006, 09:08 AM

Please include the defensive stats for those same games.

My Question is why do we need to see what the Ravens defense did? In Raod games for Boller the Defense allowed 20, 12, 30, 42. For Mc they allowed 0, 14, 13 and 22. Our Defense didnt make Boller or Mac throw an INT, TD or Help their Completion percentage and QB ratings. The stats and record tell the story for road games. For example Kyle threw for 3 tds against the bengals. You'd think that was pretty good and it is but you still have to consider his 2 int thatled to Bengals TD by Chad Johnson and Chris Henry which cost the ravens 14 points. The ball was given to the Bengals on the Ravens 45 and 27 (in both int situations) and you want to blame the Ravens Defense...Sorry buddy...NO CAN DO..thats on the QB.

The Ravens Defense has nothing to do with the QBs indivual qb stats. We are comparing QB stats in a QB forum. Lets stay on point.

FadeToBlack

11-04-2006, 11:23 AM

Wow. Great find FTB. Way to pick and choose stats.

I didn't pick these stats, they picked themselves. McNair has only played in 4 road games so far. Now if I picked the last 3, well then I'd see your point.

McNair has only had 2 full home games too, which is not an adaquate sample size to compare with Boller, although Boller would have the edge if you compared their last 2 home games.

It order to be fair, why don't you bother showing us the entire seasons stats. That is unless of course you can't find them.

So you're suggesting I compare all of McNair's stats to Boller's ONE GAME vs. Carolina (which included 2 quirky TDs)? LOL. Yeah, that's totally better than comparing 4 against 4. My bad.

Oh wait a minute. I forgot that you... people... refuse to admit that there is something either wrong with this system or that we have had the worst QBs in the NFL for the last seven or eight years.

I never said the system wasn't a problem, just that "the system" is used as an excuse to justify poor QB play of lesser QBs.

Why don't you try posting Boller and McNairs last four games in a Ravens uniform?
Care to show us McNairs stats for the year?
Let's be serious for a second. Boller had 2 of his best games at the tail end of last year...at home. Then he did the usual Boller stuff at Cleveland.

FadeToBlack

11-04-2006, 11:33 AM

I think the point that is being lost in all of this is:

Getting good to decent quarterback play ON THE ROAD is more valuable than getting good to decent quarterback play AT HOME.

We tend to cover our tracks better at home.

You only need to look at Boller's interceptions in those stats I provided to figure out why we didn't win on the road, and why we weren't in the playoff hunt.

darb72

11-04-2006, 03:00 PM

So you're suggesting I compare all of McNair's stats to Boller's ONE GAME vs. Carolina (which included 2 quirky TDs)? LOL. Yeah, that's totally better than comparing 4 against 4. My bad.
No, I want you to post McNairs season stats.

They look exactly like Bollers from last year.

crazyraven

11-05-2006, 05:10 AM

Good point CR, but not only that, a defense has the tendacy to naturally play soft once they get a big lead which is normal. We saw it last week with the Ravens defense against the Saints. Brees elevated his stats when the game was essentially out of reach and thus for that game most of his postive stats were meaningless. Of course they help Brees' fantasy standing or his season stats and ratings but when the game was still undecided Brees was throwing picks and looked like crap except for the one TD pass early.

Exactly, and if you look at the first half stats from last years cinny game alone you will be surprised to see (actually you and I wont) that Bollers numbers are ridiculously ridiculous. He had an 8 QB Rating and While Some people will call for the defensive numbers and try to make them the scapegoats for boller downfall or Mcnairs success, 4 complete passes for 37 yards speaks volumes given the fact the Ravens and Bengals offensive unit both touched the ball the same amount of times in the same half (32).
ATT CMP YDS TD LG IN RT
K.Boller 12 4 37 0 14 1 8.0

darb72

11-05-2006, 01:22 PM

Simply wow. You people would nut all over yourselves, and actually have I'm sure, if McNair could put up 29 points in a half.

Boller sucked that first half and everybody admitted it. Of course not one of you... people... have yet to admit the games that McNair has sucked in.

How about the entire Denver game, the first 58 minutes of the Browns/Chargers? That's what I thought.

First half against the Browns McNair was 5 of 12 for 64 yards.
First half against the Chargers McNair was 5 of 12 with an INT for 22 yards.

Now we wound up winning those two games, but exactly how many points did the Ravens defense give up?

Man slapping you people around is easy.

Mobtown

11-05-2006, 04:28 PM

have yet to admit the games that McNair has sucked in

I will admit it, are you willing to do the same where Boller is concerned?

darb72

11-06-2006, 12:44 AM

I will admit it, are you willing to do the same where Boller is concerned?

I've admitted it more than once.

I've never said Boller would/is a great QB. I've said we don't know how good/bad he is because all QBs put up the exact same stats in this system.

Think about it. Before the last two games, how else do you explain Wright, Boller, Dilfer, Grbac, McNair, Blake and Redman put up the same numbers?

The last two games Billick has done wonders with the talent on this team. We've seen things that have not been in the Ravens playbook in the past and it's showing up in the stats.

Now I'm to jaded to jump on the band-wagon just yet because we've seen back-to-back games of offensive output before but I like what I've seen.

crazyraven

11-06-2006, 07:16 AM

Think about it. Before the last two games, how else do you explain Wright, Boller, Dilfer, Grbac, McNair, Blake and Redman put up the same numbers?

We are 6-2 and the team believes in Mcnair they simply didnt with guys of bollers kind.

It looks like Mcnair is catching on and he is totally comfortable in the systemand he did it in a short amount of time.

Mcnairs career was never built on two games like Boller's. The results of the last two games was the reason why we made a change and paid good money for his services. Why lump him in with a bum who's claim to fame is the GB and Minn games.

We are 6-2 and you are still not convinced? WTF :thumbdown:

Now I'm to jaded to jump on the band-wagon just yet because we've seen back-to-back games of offensive output before but I like what I've seen.

Get on the wagon darb, enough with this crapola already. You Too T.

darb72

11-06-2006, 05:38 PM

We are 6-2 and the team believes in Mcnair they simply didnt with guys of bollers kind.

Stats. All of those QBs posted the same STATS.

It looks like Mcnair is catching on and he is totally comfortable in the systemand he did it in a short amount of time.

Oh my God. You actually believe that the only difference between the offense from the past two weeks and the past seven years is McNair getting comfortable in the system?

For a long time I just thought you were stubborn, but now it's pretty obvious that you don't really understand the technicalities of football.

The offense we've seen the last two weeks looks nothing like what we're used to, and I don't mean the players. The plays have changed. Designed roll-outs. Play-action (which we've always had but now we're actually trying to run the ball which makes the PA much more effective). Fake reverses.

Why do you think the offensive line has "improved"? Do you think they just magically stopped sucking? The game planning has improved a great deal.

The results of the last two games was the reason why we made a change and paid good money for his services. Why lump him in with a bum who's claim to fame is the GB and Minn games.

And here is my major problem with you... people... I compared every QB under Billick, with the exception of the '99 group and Cunningham. You decided to make it a comparison between Boller and McNair. Why?

I realize you... people... have the attention span of an 8 year old hyped up on Coke and Oreos but some of us can remember back past the last game.

Not once under Billick (discounting Banks last 8 games of '99) have we had a QB post over a 76 QB rating. That started before Boller and McNair.

There are four former Pro-Bowl QBs in that group that I listed. Why don't you compare McNair to the other three? Or Wright? Or Redman?
It's actually quite simple. You have an irrational hatred for Boller. I don't know why and honestly couldn't care less.

We are 6-2 and you are still not convinced?
About this offense? Are you nut... never mind that question.
Unlike some people in this thread I wasn't proclaiming this offense healed after the Vikings game last year. I don't jump to rash conclusions. I'll wait and see if things continue like they have been.

StingerNLG

11-06-2006, 06:06 PM

Stats. All of those QBs posted the same STATS.

Repeat after me Darb. Stats only mattered when Boller was the QB. They mattered when Boller was 7-3 in 2004. But now that we're 6-2 with McNair, stats simply don't matter.

The quicker you realize that's how the arguement is changed, the easier it will be to understand.

The offense we've seen the last two weeks looks nothing like what we're used to, and I don't mean the players. The plays have changed. Designed roll-outs. Play-action (which we've always had but now we're actually trying to run the ball which makes the PA much more effective). Fake reverses.

Add to that waggles and direct snaps.

But remember, McNair couldn't do any of these things until game 7 because he was "learning the system".

Why do you think the offensive line has "improved"? Do you think they just magically stopped sucking?

Well, Flynn is still knocking QB's over (well unless he steps on Boller's foot and then it's Boller's fault. But for McNair, it's all Flynn. Another point to remember Darb). So there is still a hair bit of work left to do. That said, they seem to have caught a little fire after sucking for 7 years and 7 weeks. Hopefully this isn't the exception like last year, and the year before, and the year before, and the year before, and the year before, and the year before.

darb72

11-06-2006, 06:11 PM

Stats only matter when Boller is the QB.
Stats only matter when Boller is the QB.
Stats only matter when Boller is the QB.
Stats only matter when Boller is the QB.
Stats only matter when Boller is the QB.

Now I've made myself stupid.

crazyraven

11-06-2006, 10:22 PM

Stats. All of those QBs posted the same STATS.

I know this is wrong but to hell with the stats. If we can win that is the bottom line. Darb you played the game at a high level. are you going to ball out the QB you were protecting because he didnt have a 300 yard game but you still had a winning record? Of course you wouldnt. Why do it with mac, Thats why nobody says a bad thing about dilfer and his numbers sucked. The difference is that the guys respected him and didnt with guys like Boller Banks and Wright

Oh my God. You actually believe that the only difference between the offense from the past two weeks and the past seven years is McNair getting comfortable in the system?
Compared to Boller who took 3 years to get it and were still not really sure that he is comfortable with the system. You were the one saying the system sucks not me. I've have always been an advocate of execution which was always poor under boller.

And here is my major problem with you... people... I compared every QB under Billick, with the exception of the '99 group and Cunningham. You decided to make it a comparison between Boller and McNair. Why?

Boller is the back up to this team. Trust me if Boller was someone elses problem you wouldnt hear a thing about him from me. Another reason is you said Boller could do the very same thing that mcnair is doing and since the ravens have never been at 6-2 in the history of this franchise I find it hard to believe given our history with Boller that he could do the same.

I realize you... people... have the attention span of an 8 year old hyped up on Coke and Oreos but some of us can remember back past the last game.
Why do you have to insult me. Insult the idea fine but now your getting personal. You guys do this all the time and get people banned yet you guys are the main culprits of this stuff. Its truly unbelievable. You want to talk smack during a PM thats fine with me weve done that but please tone it down here.

Not once under Billick (discounting Banks last 8 games of '99) have we had a QB post over a 76 QB rating. That started before Boller and McNair.

i know you like to say show me stats but Mcnairs what mcnair brings to this team doesnt show up in the stats. Sorry my eyes see a major difference between the leadership of the past regardless of what the stats say. there is hope.

It's actually quite simple. You have an irrational hatred for Boller. I don't know why and honestly couldn't care less

Thats your opinon and I guess your intial to it but its simply not true. I have talked with boller and even wish him luck in the future but I just dont think he is right for this team right now. He may be at some point but right now he is not. Thats all ive ever said.

About this offense? Are you nut... never mind that question.
Unlike some people in this thread I wasn't proclaiming this offense healed after the Vikings game last year. I don't jump to rash conclusions. I'll wait and see if things continue like they have been.

we are 8 games in and we are at 6-2. we have beaten some pretty good teams so far and we are a top of our division. I dont thinks its jumping to a rash conclusions when we have the same amount of wins at our 1/2 way point as we did at the end of our season last year. Come on now who is really being the nut? I'm sure I'll be the one reprimanded for calling you a nut.

FadeToBlack

11-07-2006, 12:27 AM

Darb, was Dan Marino a better quarterback than Joe Montana?

Certainly his statistics were better.

I'll sit back and let you answer.

darb72

11-07-2006, 12:49 AM

I know this is wrong but to hell with the stats. If we can win that is the bottom line. Darb you played the game at a high level. are you going to ball out the QB you were protecting because he didnt have a 300 yard game but you still had a winning record? Of course you wouldnt. Why do it with mac
Are you saying that when Boller had a terrible game and we won, you never threw up his stats and said he was the worst QB in the league? I know what your answer will be, but the truth is that you have.
Nobody is complaining about the wins, but McNair was given $33 million in order to improve this offense. Until the last two weeks it has actually looked worse.
The defense has won us four games, the team as a total won two, the offense lost us one game and the defense lost us one game.

Thats why nobody says a bad thing about dilfer and his numbers sucked.
Yes they did. That's why we went out and got Grbac the next year. Remember how well he did coming off of a ProBowl year?

The difference is that the guys respected him and didnt with guys like Boller Banks and Wright
So the defense is playing lights out because of McNair?
You're going to have to prove that one, which of course you can't.

Compared to Boller who took 3 years to get it and were still not really sure that he is comfortable with the system. You were the one saying the system sucks not me.
This is not the same system. Repeat that phrase over and over until you have it memorized.
The last two weeks with Billick calling the plays, there has been a change. Those of us who understand the game recognize what is happening. Moving the pocket? Play-action on first down? We're actually mixing up the plays which is something that hasn't happened in the last seven years.

Another reason is you said Boller could do the very same thing that mcnair is doing and since the ravens have never been at 6-2 in the history of this franchise I find it hard to believe given our history with Boller that he could do the same.
I've proven that Boller and Wright could do what McNair has done. Care for me to bring up last years stats, yet again, showing the winning percentage of this team when the defense only gives up 15 points? You will of course ignore them yet again.

Why do you have to insult me. Insult the idea fine but now your getting personal. You guys do this all the time and get people banned yet you guys are the main culprits of this stuff. Its truly unbelievable. You want to talk smack during a PM thats fine with me weve done that but please tone it down here.
I was insulting y'alls glaring inability to focus on the history of this team. Everyone of you blame the entire offenses ineptitude on Boller.

i know you like to say show me stats but Mcnairs what mcnair brings to this team doesnt show up in the stats. Sorry my eyes see a major difference between the leadership of the past regardless of what the stats say. there is hope.
So you can't post facts yet you wonder why I have such an easy time slapping down your arguments?

I just dont think he is right for this team right now. He may be at some point but right now he is not. Thats all ive ever said.
Bull. You've called Boller a bust among other things.

we are 8 games in and we are at 6-2. we have beaten some pretty good teams so far
Really? We've beaten some good teams? We're 1-1 against teams with a winning record. Hmmm....

StingerNLG

11-07-2006, 01:03 AM

Darb, was Dan Marino a better quarterback than Joe Montana?

Certainly his statistics were better.

I'll sit back and let you answer.

There is an inherent problem with your comparison:

Marino played 2 more years and 50 more games than Montana. So by rule, he SHOULD have more yards and completions than Montana. Just like McNair having 8 years on Boller, so you HOPE he has better numbers by now.

HOWEVER

Montana was also in 8 Pro-Bowls, Marino in 9. Marino's YPA was 7.3, Montana's was 7.5. Their TD/INT ratio and their completion percentage were very close. Both are HOF QB's.

We're not talking about 2 QB's that are exactly that far apart.

darb72

11-07-2006, 01:11 AM

Darb, was Dan Marino a better quarterback than Joe Montana?

Certainly his statistics were better.

I'll sit back and let you answer.

Marinos statistics were better? This is a perfect example of why you should never, ever challange me.

Joe played 14 years (in the league for 16 but was injured for one and only played in one game in another)

His career rating is 92.3
He threw an INT every 38.7 pass attempts.
He threw a TD every 19.7 pass attempts.
His career completion percentage is 63.2

Marino played 17 years

His career rating is 86.4
He threw an INT every 33 pass attempts.
He threw a TD every 19.9 pass attempts.
His career completion percentage is 59.4

Dan averaged about 700 more yards a year than Montana and he attempted an average of 106 more passes. Considering both QB averaged a little over 7 yards per attempt for their career, you figure out how many yards Joe would have thrown for.

Now do be a peach and get your facts straight before calling me out again. Thanks bunches.

For the record I would rather have Montana.:thumbup:

FadeToBlack

11-07-2006, 01:14 AM

I can assure you that if posted their per season averages, Dan Marino would have significantly more touchdowns and more yards than Joe Montana. So the question becomes, do his stats make him a better quarterback? Yes or no?

In case you're missing my point, I'll tell you what it is. While statististics can be useful, there are things called "intangibles" which don't show up the stat sheet. For example, one of Montana's "intangibles" was his ability to make all his teammates calm in stressful situations. Do you agree that we can't quantify this skill?

P.S. I may not be able to challenge you Darb, but gravity can.

darb72

11-07-2006, 01:23 AM

In case you were missing my point, which it's fairly obvious that you are, every QB for the Ravens has sucked. Now the law of averages say we should have had at least one decent one correct?

Let's try it another way. Grbac was a ProBowl QB the year before he got here correct?
Anthony Wright is a career backup correct?
So why did they post the same stats?

Look at Redman and Blake. Two different types of QBs, yet in the same year they posted the same stats.

crazyraven

11-07-2006, 12:06 PM

Are you saying that when Boller had a terrible game and we won, you never threw up his stats and said he was the worst QB in the league?

I never did it when he was 7-3 but I also knew that the defense won alot of those games. I never thought for a second that Boller was a superstar that some make him out to be. I thought he was serviceable guy who wouldnt f it up ala dilfer

Nobody is complaining about the wins, but McNair was given $33 million in order to improve this offense.

No your not complaining your just JADED, by what?...who knows? we have a 6-2 recorded and your Jaded. we are winning and you are Jaded. your a ravens fan right?

WTF

Yes they did. That's why we went out and got Grbac the next year. Remember how well he did coming off of a ProBowl year?
Yea and old man hill billy Terry Allen

You're going to have to prove that one, which of course you can't.
The only thing that I can say is that we almost lost ray this year. People were hating on him because he was doing all kinds of unexplainable shit then magically Mcnair is signed and all of a sudden everything changed in a moment. Ray is now handing out game balls to Billick of all people. Not a stat just an observation.

The last two weeks with Billick calling the plays, there has been a change. Those of us who understand the game recognize what is happening. Moving the pocket? Play-action on first down? We're actually mixing up the plays which is something that hasn't happened in the last seven years.
Hmm I wonder why we are able to do that now? Could it be because Mcnair knows what he is doing and the other qbs who were worth a nothing and have become nothing didnt?

Care for me to bring up last years stats, yet again, showing the winning percentage of this team when the defense only gives up 15 points?
yea sure the defense is a main reason we win alot of game...what else is new. Your kidding me right. I've never backed down to that in fact but what i did refuted was that when the defense allows more than 20 or more points boller record has been horrible because he isnt able to answer the other team when they score points. So far Mcnair has been able to double bollers win output in just a matter of 2 games. Can you fucking believe at of all the games Boller has played when the defense allows 20 or more points we have only come away with one win. Thats disgraceful.

Last time I brought that up I was cursed at and you said I was going on your ignore list....and of NGL boasted about doing hte same.

I was insulting y'alls glaring inability to focus on the history of this team. Everyone of you blame the entire offenses ineptitude on Boller

yea by calling me an 8 year old. Good job. Interesting that I can do this with out insulting you. Maybe its because I wont stoop to your level.

I got to give you credit though, its amazing that you dont have that little red dot next to your name and many others do. I'm sure the buttering up machine will be on 100% when some of the mods hit Tenn this weekend :p

crazyraven

11-07-2006, 12:13 PM

FadeToBlack

11-07-2006, 02:11 PM

darb72

11-07-2006, 07:05 PM

I never did it when he was 7-3 but I also knew that the defense won alot of those games. I never thought for a second that Boller was a superstar that some make him out to be. I thought he was serviceable guy who wouldnt f it up ala dilfer
Which is exactly how McNair managed to win four of our games.
So if Boller can go 7-3 with crap stats, why is it you were cheering when he got hurt, but are blowing smoke up McNairs kiester for doing the exact same thing? Intresting to say the least.

No your not complaining your just JADED, by what?...who knows? we have a 6-2 recorded and your Jaded. we are winning and you are Jaded.
Seven years of the same terrible offense I reserve the right to be jaded. Remember last year when Boller had two good games in a row you and the rest of your cable said you were waiting to see if Bolelr had turned the corner? Remember what I said then?

The only thing that I can say is that we almost lost ray this year. People were hating on him because he was doing all kinds of unexplainable shit then magically Mcnair is signed and all of a sudden everything changed in a moment. Ray is now handing out game balls to Billick of all people. Not a stat just an observation.
So you can't prove it?
Rest assured that every player on that field is playing as hard as they can regardless of the QB.

Hmm I wonder why we are able to do that now? Could it be because Mcnair knows what he is doing and the other qbs who were worth a nothing and have become nothing didnt?
Yeah, and Billick calling the plays has had nothing to do with it. Why didn't we do it the first six games of the season. I already know what your excuse will be but go ahead and spew it out anyway.

Can you fucking believe at of all the games Boller has played when the defense allows 20 or more points we have only come away with one win. Thats disgraceful.
I'm actually going to give you a chance to sack up and take a bet. If I can prove you're wrong you disappear and never come back. If I can't I'll leave. How about it?

yea by calling me an 8 year old. Good job. Interesting that I can do this with out insulting you. Maybe its because I wont stoop to your level.
Show me where I called you an 8 year old. Oh wait a minute, you don't actually have to have facts when you make a claim. I keep forgetting you... people... change the rules whenever you start getting smacked down.

Now for someone who actually attempts intellectual discourse.

If your point is the system brings our QBs down, I agree. But I would disagree that McNair and Boller are interchangeable.
Finally. One of the Haters finally admits what I've been saying is true. I honestly didn't think it would be Fade, but I'll take it.

I'll agree with you that McNair is a better QB than Boller right now. Everybody agrees with that.

Now for another point. If the system, "brings our QBs down", isn't it possible that Boller isn't as bad as he has looked?

crazyraven

11-07-2006, 08:20 PM

Which is exactly how McNair managed to win four of our games.
So if Boller can go 7-3 with crap stats, why is it you were cheering when he got hurt, but are blowing smoke up McNairs kiester for doing the exact same thing? Intresting to say the least.

The Defense and the offense have been winning this time around. You're just too jaded to see that. I still dont get why your jaded in 2006 about shit that happened in the past. But its your life you seem to be happy being bitter or jaded. SB moved past the the past so should you and it looks like Billick is doing a good job at keeping his job. We moved forward with a pro bowl qb life should be good. Well it is for me.

I'm actually going to give you a chance to sack up and take a bet. If I can prove you're wrong you disappear and never come back. If I can't I'll leave. How about it?

HA. nice spot but since I have been talking about it beforeI'll stand by this post that I made on 10-16-2006, 09:54 PM post #32 in this thread. http://www.profootball24x7.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1378&page=2 Boller is actually 2-8 in those situations. His record is so bad I forgot to check back on the stats that I orginally posted but I will admit my mistake in this thread. its true boller and mcnair have same amount of wins in those situations but boller has 8 more losses. I've talked about it before but you glossed over it. Dude you ducked me the first time about this and now your trying to make bets to get rid of me which you know I know the answer too. Man oh man

darb72

11-08-2006, 12:07 AM

The Defense and the offense have been winning this time around.
Yeah, the past two weeks. Congrats on your ability to focus on the very short term.

I still dont get why your jaded in 2006 about shit that happened in the past.
You're kidding me right? The past is the reason you become jaded.
If a hot girl comes up to you and a party and ask if you want to make out you'd say yes. Y'all go to a nice quite bedroom where she promptly turns around and kicks you in the balls.
Now a week later you're at another party and the same chick ask you if you want to make out. Do you say yes and follow her to the bedroom, or do you cover your nuts and scream for help?
That's what being jaded is. Of course the fact that I actually have to explain to someone how you become jaded makes me feel very, very sad.

Didnt want to call anyone a weasel so i took it back by saying man oh man
You do realize we can all read this right?

I'm still waiting for you to show me where I called you an 8 year old. Now you either bring proof that I called you an 8 year old or admit that you lied.

crazyraven

11-08-2006, 02:57 PM

That's what being jaded is. Of course the fact that I actually have to explain to someone how you become jaded makes me feel very, very sad.
Actually dont feel sad, because I am and thats only because you wont answer my question. Look I dont understand how Mcnair makes you feel like youve been kicked in the nuts. Now if your talking Boller/wright then I completely agree they have done that.

You cant think that all girls would kick you in the nuts just because one has kicked you in the nuts a few times. You could have been with a wacko or choosen the wrong type of girl to be with. There are some nice women out there darb.

I have Proven that Mcnair has out match Boller in a matter of 8 games. The system is starting to change and he did that in only a few months, but you choose to twist the definition of the term jaded to evade my stats. your choose to twist things around by going off on tangents about getting kicked in the nuts by women. The fact is boller is 2-8 (excluding games he didnt finish) when the defense fails to hold teams to 20 or more points. So far Mac is 2-0 when the defense allows more than 20 points and he is 4-1 when the defense holds teams below or at 15 points

Bottom line Things have been progressing with Mcnair. Boller should learn plenty behind Mcnair. Maybe Hes got one more chance I think in Baltimore but in the meantime lets enjoy this ride with Mc9

darb72

11-08-2006, 06:41 PM

I honestly don't know how anybody can be this dense.

I'm going to try to explain this one more time then I'll just have to turn it over to FTB and pray he can use smaller words for you.

-For seven years this offense has sucked.
-Every year we have a two game explosion on offense.
-Every year people start jumping around saying the problem is over.
-Every year our offense returns to form.

Now there is a chance, albeit slight, that you're avoiding the point on purpose. Quick bit of advice; it would help if you'd ever had an intelligent conversation if you're going for the whole, "I'm acting dumber than I really am to tick people off", routine. Otherwise people are just going to continue thinking you're slow.

Since you love posting your little stat line, let's see if I can't smack you around with it.

So Boller, as a Ravens QB, is 2-8 when the defense fails to hold the defense under 20 points.
You did do enough research to know that prior to Boller getting here the Ravens won 10 out of 29 games where the defense allowed more than 20 points right?
So once again everything just started going bad when Boller got here right?

Want to know some more fun facts using your little "20 points" point?
Prior to Boller getting here, the Ravens, under Billick, scored 20 or more points 30 times in 64 games.

In Bollers 32 games that he's started and finished, the Ravens have scored 20 or more points in 19 of 32 games. I'll go ahead and tell you that if you double 19 it comes out a heck of a lot closer to 40 than to 30.

Other fun facts? Last year was the year that brought Bollers average way, way down.
In 2003 we scored 20 or more points in 6 of 8 games with him starting and finishing.
Int 2004 we scored 20 or more points 10 times. That's more than any other year under Billick.

Man, Bollers better than I thought.

EDIT: I'm still waiting for you to show me where I called you an eight year old. Either prove it or admit to being a liar.

RavenDavey

11-08-2006, 07:32 PM

:iagree:
Thanks Darb72...............ENOUGH SAID!!!!!!!!

crazyraven

11-08-2006, 08:39 PM

-For seven years this offense has sucked.
-Every year we have a two game explosion on offense.
-Every year people start jumping around saying the problem is over.
-Every year our offense returns to form
Excuse me but we havent been 6-2 every year with a QB of Mcnairs caliber. We've had scrubs at the helm. I think thats the point to all of this

You did do enough research to know that prior to Boller getting here the Ravens won 10 out of 29 games where the defense allowed more than 20 points right?
This is where I stop reading, but i should have stop sooner with all the personal insults. The reason why I stop is because who ever was at the helm before is no longer with us. Away is the garbage of the past, aside from boller. I wanted to concentrate on the player we have. You're going back real far to prove your point . But I'll go back too and say that even with some of those bums we were able to get to a superbowl and a few playoff game in that same time span. We havent with boller, I will admit Im jaded when it come to him even starting because he has proven time and time again that he doesnt have what it takes, at least not since he's been here. Again we have gone to the playoffs with somewhat similar talent at QB but boller hasnt been able to guide us anywhere near a playoff game.

You keep saying that the system suck, perhaps it did but that system is changing and Mcnair is the reason why we are where we are. Billick has changed things around and people are noticing around the league. Again we are 6-2 and you have every right to be Jaded and thats Fine, but really look at who has been kicking you in the balls. It hasnt been Steve Mcnair.

I'm still waiting for you to show me where I called you an eight year old. Either prove it or admit to being a liar.
You say "you people "when you wrote the 8 year old line and then you say "prove I called you an eight year old" well Considering that you quoted me when you said it and hardly anyone else has contributed to this thread its pretty likely you were talking about me but ya know you dont know how anybody can be this dense soooo....

Other fun facts? Last year was the year that brought Bollers average way, way down.
In 2003 we scored 20 or more points in 6 of 8 games with him starting and finishing.
Int 2004 we scored 20 or more points 10 times. That's more than any other year under Billick.

Man, Bollers better than I thought.

I'm out for now. We are going in circles. Your fun facts didnt do a damn thing in the standing. My fun fact say we are 6-2 with Mcnair and life is good in the AFC north.

but go on dont let me stop you, have a good time with your fun facts. :thumbup:

darb72

11-08-2006, 09:44 PM

You keep saying that the system suck, perhaps it did but that system is changing and Mcnair is the reason why we are where we are.
So the defense has had nothing to do with any of this huh?

You say "you people "when you wrote the 8 year old line and then you say "prove I called you an eight year old" well Considering that you quoted me when you said it and hardly anyone else has contributed to this thread its pretty likely you were talking about me but ya know you dont know how anybody can be this dense soooo....
So you can't prove it?

Post the quote where I called you an 8 year old. Oh wait, there I am expecting you to actually have facts again. Silly little me. Well, I guess you are a liar and since I can actually prove it by showing I never called you an 8 year old you can't be crying about personal insults. You are a liar.

As for you avoiding my post, I'm really not surprised. You deftly avoid any proof that Boller isn't as bad as you wish.

crazyraven

11-09-2006, 08:37 AM

So the defense has had nothing to do with any of this huh?
Oui Vey, We were talking about the offensive system not the Defense.
I've said that the defense has helped a million time. The defense is the backbone to this team. The differnce now is that they are getting help from the offense.

I wanted to clear that up before I completely left the topic. thanks

darb72

11-09-2006, 06:34 PM

Did you know that when ever the defense fails to hold an opposing offense under 20 points in that same time period bollers record is 2-8.
I can't believed I missed this part.

You do realize that two of those 8 games you love to mention Boller either didn't finish or didn't start.
The Colts game Boller left at the half.
Now the Panthers game that you said yourself that was Bollers fault. We lost by two points. That INT that McNair threw was turned into a FG by the Panthers.
Let's see here. McNair hands the Panthers three points in a game we lose by two. Hmmm... yet CrazyRaven says that that loss was all Bollers fault.
Bye-Bye liar.

I'd love to tell you it's been fun, but this little show has gotten repetitive.

You post half stats to "prove" that Boller is a terrible QB.
I post the rest of those stats to prove that Boller sucks the exact same way every other QB under Billick has.
You start crying about personal insults while making up lies about what I said and complaining about the mods though you can't prove that I insulted you.
I sit back and laugh at yet another feeble attempt by you to finally beat me.

Of course CR, being the kind of person that he is, will avoid this post. Can't say I'm surprised.

crazyraven

11-09-2006, 08:36 PM

You do realize that two of those 8 games you love to mention Boller either didn't finish or didn't start.
The Colts game Boller left at the half.
Thats correct Thats why I didnt include them I would have included them but I didnt think it was fair. go ahead and check you'll see its actually 12 games.

i know your think im a lair but if you look at post number 38 this is what I wrote

I have Proven that Mcnair has out match Boller in a matter of 8 games. The system is starting to change and he did that in only a few months, but you choose to twist the definition of the term jaded to evade my stats. your choose to twist things around by going off on tangents about getting kicked in the nuts by women. The fact is boller is 2-8 (excluding games he didnt finish) when the defense fails to hold teams to 20 or more points

The Colts game Boller left at the half.
excuse me lair you mean 3rd quarter right?

Now the Panthers game that you said yourself that was Bollers fault. We lost by two points. That INT that McNair threw was turned into a FG by the Panthers.
Blame mcnair? havent Ive said we are 6-2? Good grief

Of course CR, being the kind of person that he is, will avoid this post. Can't say I'm surprised
You wont let me leave. Your making it too easy for me to stick around

You start crying about personal insults while making up lies about what I said and complaining about the mods though you can't prove that I insulted you

Honestly Idont care if you insult me or not. Water off my back. I dont go to the mods like some of the weasels on this board. I will call a spade a spade though

darb72

11-09-2006, 10:07 PM

Crazy, you really should have stayed away.

Your original 2-8 mark was from the Pats game in 2004.

do you realize that when boller has been behind center he has been 6-10 since the NE Game in 2004. Thats 16 consecutive games. Now it took two years to get there but by golly we are finally there....oh shit my bad he didnt start the panthers game but fuck it he played long enough so he eats it. Thats a .375 winning percentage

Did you know that when ever the defense fails to hold an opposing offense under 20 points in that same time period bollers record is 2-8.
The only way you can come up with 10 games is if you add in the Colts last year and the Panthers this year.

Now wait a minute because it's about to get really fun. Now you've changed your statement to...

Thats correct Thats why I didnt include them I would have included them but I didnt think it was fair. go ahead and check you'll see its actually 12 games.
So either you did include them, or you didn't. Which is it?

You can't even keep up with what you write. Disappear Crazy. I've embarrassed you badly in this thread and it's becoming sad.

You were correct about Boller leaving in the third quarter. I was wrong.

Of course you realize the reason that you are a liar is that you have yet to prove where I called you an 8 year old. You've said it twice in this thread but can't prove it.

crazyraven

11-10-2006, 12:00 AM

Of course you realize the reason that you are a liar is that you have yet to prove where I called you an 8 year old. You've said it twice in this thread but can't prove it

Dont need proof. you said it. go check the thread. own up to what you said. Your lying to yourself, it doesnt bother me. its like this, If I called you..people...pussies, Id take credit for it. Seriously I would. Cause If i said it its what I believed. If you questioned me If I thought you were a pussy Id give you my honest answer, Not challenge you that I ever said it. maybe thats the difference between me and you. I'm truthful and you well, you are not.

I'm just going to have to say i was wrong and that you didnt call me an 8 year old even though you said it in this thread but fail to classify who those people were. Its not that much of a mystery to me to figure out. Your right I lied :eyes:

On to football....

Your original 2-8 mark was from the Pats game in 2004.
Thats true and I provided a link to an orginal statement then but then I refined it and I even told you i did.

The only way you can come up with 10 games is if you add in the Colts last year and the Panthers this year.

Now wait a minute because it's about to get really fun. Now you've changed your statement to...

I added the colts game and the panthers game in this example back in october beginning from October. That is true.

In this thread I excluded the Panthers, Rams and the colts game and only concentrated on games Boller startered and completed through out his career.

Either way its the same thing. From the Patriot game if you include the colts game and the panthers game. games he played the ravens are 2-8 when the defense allows 20 or more points. if you look at his career as a whole (excluding games he didnt start or finish) he is 2-8.

Is that clear. No matter how you slice it. He has sucked when the defense allows 20 or more points. He cant score points and we lose.

You can't even keep up with what you write. Disappear Crazy. I've embarrassed you badly in this thread and it's becoming sad.
Youve done nothing of the kind. You think your cute with this and you cant punch holes but I'll try to make you understand no matter how much of a resistance you put up.

Greg

11-10-2006, 12:36 PM

Okay boys, let's try and relax on the attacks of each other.

I will say the guys in this thread have kept it between themselves, which is a good thing.

Mobtown

11-10-2006, 04:41 PM

I will say the guys in this thread have kept it between themselves, which is a good thing.

Only because no one else wants to touch this steamer.

darb72

11-10-2006, 05:28 PM

Dont need proof. you said it. go check the thread. own up to what you said.
You're starting to border on libel CR. Either prove that I said it, admit you lied, or we can talk to the Mods. Your choice.

I'm truthful and you well, you are not.
Uh-huh. Given your history, you don't really expect people to believe that do you?

And of course here goes the liar attempting football talk again. It's really quite cute.

The fact is boller is 2-8 (excluding games he didnt finish) when the defense fails to hold teams to 20 or more points

do you realize that when boller has been behind center he has been 6-10 since the NE Game in 2004. Thats 16 consecutive games. Now it took two years to get there but by golly we are finally there....oh shit my bad he didnt start the panthers game but fuck it he played long enough so he eats it. Thats a .375 winning percentage

Did you know that when ever the defense fails to hold an opposing offense under 20 points in that same time period bollers record is 2-8.

Of course you have skirted the fact that the Ravens, prior to Boller coming in, are 10 of 29 when the defense failed to hold a team under 20 points. That's roughly 1 of 3. Now Boller is 1 of 4 in the worst of the stats. 1-3 in games started and finished after his rookie year. Not really that much of a difference is there?

crazyraven

11-10-2006, 10:32 PM

You're starting to border on libel CR. Either prove that I said it, admit you lied, or we can talk to the Mods. Your choice.

I think weve done all three of those things and I still cant get you to shut up about it. I proved it and you still didn't shut up. I called myself a lair or said I lied just to shut you up and even greg stepped in (on his own, I hope you didn't bring him into this) yet you are going on about it. Yea...Lets got to court cause its libel...I think a simple "a-duh" (and I add the hyphen for added emphasis) should suffice in this case.

Of course you have skirted the fact that the Ravens, prior to Boller coming in, are 10 of 29 when the defense failed to hold a team under 20 points. That's roughly 1 of 3. Now Boller is 1 of 4 in the worst of the stats. 1-3 in games started and finished after his rookie year. Not really that much of a difference is there?
Again you are off topic. This is about Boller and Mcnairs stats. Lets stay on point. Start a thread about this topic and I will be happy to talk to you about this with you.

Now if you think that 2 wins in three years is something to crow about or as you say not really much of a difference I honestly don't have the endurance to continue with you about this. Mac so far has matched Bollers output when the defense gives up more than 20 points with 2 wins under his belt in a matter of a few games. He has also put up the same win and losses when the defense holds the team to 15 and under in points. (well actually you added AW into that otherwise Mac has already surpassed Boller). Our record is 6-2. Sorry but there is no trend. We are better with Mcnair. Nuff said.

OUT.

darb72

11-10-2006, 11:07 PM

I think weve done all three of those things and I still cant get you to shut up about it.
No, we haven't. You have proven nothing and I want an apology.

Again you are off topic. This is about Boller and Mcnairs stats. Lets stay on point. Start a thread about this topic and I will be happy to talk to you about this with you.
Pointing out a trend is hardly off-topic. My point of contention has always been that the system sucks. It has. Your point has been that Boller is the only thing that has ever been wrong with this offense.

He has also put up the same win and losses when the defense holds the team to 15 and under in points. (well actually you added AW into that otherwise Mac has already surpassed Boller).
No kidding? I did that? Wow, I guess I was pointing out that with a journeyman and a (your words) bust, putting up the exact same record as McNair, ol' Stevie didn't do that much.

We are better with Mcnair
Really? You have a truly great football mind there Buck-O. Show me where anyone has said Boller should be starting over McNair if McNair is healthy?