This O-Line REALLY SUCKS!

[ravenjoe]

Yea, I know the penalties/turnovers and injuries have really crippled this team this year (no I'm not going to jump on the fire BB bandwagon just yet). Before I do that, I want to see that O-line actually execute for a change! Come on, as much as I would love to see Troy Smith start (and I still want that to happen), Kyle Boller was manhandled (again) yesterday! It burns me to no end to see our QB lying on the turf, and our O-lineman standing over him, extending a hand to pick him up - for cripe sakes, guys, BLOCK SOMEBODY!!! This unit really SUCKS! If you want to fire anybody, why not start with Forrester, the line coach. How this unit was able to handle the Pats is beyond me?! If this is the line of the future, we better get prepared for many more frustrating and disappointing seasons.

[ladyraven127]

:rolling:

Offensive line has been the biggest weakness of this team for years. You're just noticing this?

[ravenjoe]

I believe the O-line performed just fine last year, or was that 13-3 record and fewest allowed sacks in quite some time just my imagination?

[highwater]

I believe the O-line performed just fine last year, or was that 13-3 record and fewest allowed sacks in quite some time just my imagination?

This is not the same O-line that we had last year -- several of these guys are very young and inexperienced and may become very good at some point, but right now they are getting our QBs clobbered.

[ladyraven127]

It's just your imagination :D

[ravenjoe]

This is not the same O-line that we had last year -- several of these guys are very young and inexperienced and may become very good at some point, but right now they are getting our QBs clobbered.

I realize that. I was simply responding to the previous post which stated that our "Offensive line has been the biggest weakness of this team for years", when in fact our line performed quite well last year. The main point here is that if this line can not perform any better than it has this year, someone really dropped the ball in regards to evaluating the talent of this bunch.

[highwater]

The main point here is that if this line can not perform any better than it has this year, someone really dropped the ball in regards to evaluating the talent of this bunch.

Could be -- I'm holding out hope that the rookies will improve and that this playing time will pay off in the long run, but I'm beginning to wonder about Adam Terry. Didn't we trade up to get this guy? I know he's dinged up but overall, he seems to have underacheived so far.

[StingerNLG]

Could be -- I'm holding out hope that the rookies will improve and that this playing time will pay off in the long run, but I'm beginning to wonder about Adam Terry. Didn't we trade up to get this guy? I know he's dinged up but overall, he seems to have underacheived so far.

Because he can't get back on the field as long as Ogden is holding his position hostage. Adam Terry did just fine earlier this year at LT. He is not a prototypical RT and thus struggled there.

Once Terry can play LT again, I think he'll be just fine.

[ravenjoe]

I've actually been wondering about Adam Terry myself. He seems to get dinged up alot (ala Heap), and does not appear to be very tough....just my opinion.

[Fiesty Ravens Chic]

Yea, I know the penalties/turnovers and injuries have really crippled this team this year (no I'm not going to jump on the fire BB bandwagon just yet). Before I do that, I want to see that O-line actually execute for a change! Come on, as much as I would love to see Troy Smith start (and I still want that to happen), Kyle Boller was manhandled (again) yesterday! It burns me to no end to see our QB lying on the turf, and our O-lineman standing over him, extending a hand to pick him up - for cripe sakes, guys, BLOCK SOMEBODY!!! This unit really SUCKS! If you want to fire anybody, why not start with Forrester, the line coach. How this unit was able to handle the Pats is beyond me?! If this is the line of the future, we better get prepared for many more frustrating and disappointing seasons.

O-line has seemed a bit off but if Kyle freakin' Boller did not hold on to the ball for 20 secs each pass he may not have ended up on his back time after time. Did you notice the play where it "appeared" that Troy was being sacked but then out of no where he apears out of the pocket and passes the ball. Kyle just seems to give up when there is pressure in his face. O-line will not be able to stop every single rush package a defense can send the rest is up to the QB to get rid of the ball or tuck it in and run. JMO :p

[ravenwoman]

The "O" line is still young and they have been switching positions way too much. Once JO and Flynn retire, you will see some stability. We also need Ben Grubbs to play guard.

Fiesty Chick is right. You need to move around and step up in the pocket when things collapse around you. It is called pocket presence. All good QBs have it, but Kyle has very little of it. Troy Smith definitely has it and he has the wheels to run, which is an asset in this league.

Play Troy Smith and see where we are QB wise. We may not have to draft a QB in the off season and will be able to address other needs. We need 2 or 3 CBs, that's for sure.

[highwater]

O-line has seemed a bit off but if Kyle freakin' Boller did not hold on to the ball for 20 secs each pass he may not have ended up on his back time after time.

While I agree that Boller sometimes hangs onto the ball too long, you can't blame the beating he took on Sunday on that. Did you see the game? Did you see the play where Jason Taylor, probably Miami's best defensive player, sacked Boller without even being touched? Seriously, he had a straight run at the QB and no one even TOUCHED HIM! How do you ignore the other team's best defensive player like that?

I think there is something wrong with our pass protection other than the inexperience of the OL. You just can't let the other team's best rusher get a free shot at your QB.

It's a good thing we've only got two games left, because otherwise we might see Clayton at QB. He'd be the only one left.

[Mikerobe]

With possibly the exception of Grubbs none of theoffensive linemen has shown me much. Ogden still plays well, but he'll never be 100% again and will most likely retire.

Jason Brown who I keep reading about having such a stellar year, has let more blitzers past him untouched then anyone on the line. I've seen Yanda get beat on the outside, but Brown gets knocked backward by linebackers, and far too often. Chris Chester doesn't have the bulk to be a good center, and he gets pushed backwards a lot as well.

The only O-lineman I haven't seen get pushed around is Jarret Gaither. The team may want to try him at right tackle in training camp. And oh yeah, O- line coach Foerster's zone blocking scheme hasn't worked. Could somebody please tell him!

[StingerNLG]

This is something I don't get. Some people will just go either way to skewer Boller.

First he doesn't hold onto the ball long enough for receivers to run routes and stares down.

NOW he holds onto the ball too long??

Is 3 seconds now considered too long for a Ravens QB? Because he wasn't getting even that on Sunday.

I want to see Troy Smith too. But let's stop making ways to beat up on Boller even if it means altering the critique from one side to the other.

[bmore finest]

The O-line is young and yes some if not all the schemes needs changing. Everything starts in the trenches. I still have faith that it will work out as the o-line of the future. It has been a rough season for those guys.

Terry i think will move back at RT next year. Jared Gaither is most likely to replace J.O. next season. I'm thinking

Gaither
Brown or Chester
flynn, if retire, Chester. but i would love for us to draft a true center this yr.
Grubbs
Terry or Yanda i wouldn't be shock if Yanda beats him out in camp.

I really would like to draft a true center maybe a Jonathan Luigs(ark) or Drew Miller(florida) in the late rounds.

[jonboy79]

I think Terry on the left and Gaither on the right would be better, though I still think Yanda can play RT, and I still want to see Chester for a length of time at C before we push him aside.

[Dont Know]

I can't see Billick (assuming he is staying) putting in a rookie at center. Not the way he talks about the importance of the center position for pass protection calls.

Terry - Grubbs - Brown - Yanda - Gaither/draftee would be my guess, with Chester and Gaither/draftee as backups.

[bmore finest]

Sorry about the RT and LT. I dont see yanda beating Gaither out, And Chester could play center but a least a true rookie center to push him for the spot. I just think if jo retires, Gaithers will start if only because of his size. I'm a fan of his so i hope he pulls through 4 the ravens.

[OriAl]

Boller can't win. If he forces a pass to a covered receiver and it's picked off, he's an idiot. If he holds the ball in that situation and takes a sack, he's an idiot.

IF HE GOT CONSISTENT PASS PROTECTION, HE'D GET THE JOB DONE! Cleo freaking Lemon torched us because he usually had six seconds or more to throw (yes, I timed it.) Offense starts with the offensive line, be it pass or run.

[ClericBlackDave]

I would like this for next years oline:

LT Terry
LG Grubbs
C J. Brown
RG M. Yanda
RT J. Gaither


I think that could be very effective, and shore up the center.


Right now i'm not sure if Yanda will be able to handle elite DE's. We need a new center, I'd like to see J. Brown try that out.


We really miss Pashos at right tackle. Why didn't we re-sign him again?

[highwater]

We really miss Pashos at right tackle. Why didn't we re-sign him again?

$$$$$ -- as I recall, Jacksonville (I think it was the Jags) signed him to a pretty sweet deal.

I like your proposed OL for next year. I think (and hope) Terry will do well at LT, better than he has performed at RT. Gaither looked good in his limited time so he could be good at RT. Yanda has seemed in over his head at times but could get better, and Grubbs has looked good.

This line is young -- we may as well get them some playing time now.

[metro]

We really miss Pashos at right tackle. Why didn't we re-sign him again?

The Ravens didn't have the cap room to sign Pashos. He got a sweet deal from Jacksonville. Personally, I would rather Pashos than Jarrett Johnson or Bart Scott. It is easier to replace a LB than a quality OT.

[4G63]

You guys do realize that Ben Roethlisberger has more sacks than Boller and McNair combined?!?

Could you experts explain to me why this is?

[purplepoe]

I would like this for next years oline:

LT Terry
LG Grubbs
C J. Brown
RG M. Yanda
RT J. Gaither


I think that could be very effective, and shore up the center.


Right now i'm not sure if Yanda will be able to handle elite DE's. We need a new center, I'd like to see J. Brown try that out.


We really miss Pashos at right tackle. Why didn't we re-sign him again?

LOL.

So you're you bailing on Yanda already?

Again, how can you post stuff like that after one bad game when you stick by a certain player no matter how poor his play is?

Yanda was going up against the reigning DPOY and you want to ship him to guard because he got beat?

BTW, much of the problem on Sunday was the blocking scheme.

So let me get this straight. You've already bailed on Chester as the future center. And you've now bailed on Yanda as the future RT after 14 games into his rookie season. Mind you, he hasn't played in every game and he wasn't slated to even start this season. He's performed admirably this season.

I also assume you don't know that Gaither was moved to RT in college and struggled mightily. How can you say you with a straight face that he'd be better than Yanda?

As for Pashos.

We didn't have nearly cap room to sign him.

I thought you knew everything about this team Dave.

Seems some of us "average" fans knew the Pashos situation pretty well.

PP

[ravenjoe]

You guys do realize that Ben Roethlisberger has more sacks than Boller and McNair combined?!?

Could you experts explain to me why this is?

Very interesting....that's a hard one to believe?! I thought Pitts O-line was pretty solid?!

[StingerNLG]

You guys do realize that Ben Roethlisberger has more sacks than Boller and McNair combined?!?

Could you experts explain to me why this is?

And with the exception of 2 games, every game where Roth was sacked more than 3 times, the Steelers LOST.

And in that stat you also don't know if those sacks were the only hits or hurries Ben had. You don't know the pass vs. run ratio.

There are many more variables in that equation than just how many sacks the QB took.

Otherwise, you could make the arguement that McNair and Boller had more pocket presence than Ben Rothlisberger because they were sacked less.

See how that works? ;)

[StingerNLG]

And what's up with all the Marshal Yanda hate? The pressure on the QB isn't really coming from that side. It's coming from the left and center of the line. You know, Ogden and Flynn's spots?

[highwater]

You guys do realize that Ben Roethlisberger has more sacks than Boller and McNair combined?!?

Could you experts explain to me why this is?

Could you possibly be a little more condescending, because I'm not sure I'm totally understanding your sniveling cheap shot question.

[4G63]

Could you possibly be a little more condescending, because I'm not sure I'm totally understanding your sniveling cheap shot question.

Yeah, I can be more condescending! ;) Yet, you really can't answer my question can you?

Everyone on this board says our O-line is atrocious and it kills our QB, yet Big Ben has more sacks. How can his O-line be better than ours. Does Boller have better pocket presence or does Big Ben?

Maybe our line isn't so bad after all. McGahee is 4th or 5th (can't remember) in the league in yards (he's better than Jamal Lewis!) and has worked hard for every one of them.

All I'm saying is that its all relative. QB's with good pocket presence make good decisions on where to go and I'm sure Big Ben has run into a few sacks because of his mobility.

I guess here's my question to all of you: Do you think Benny Boy would have more or less sacks if he played with our O-line, knowing how he can move?

[RavenScallywag]

I think one thing that's tough to swallow about the situation is we're actually in a spot where our OL needs to play bad before it can get better...

Jason Brown seems to be the only player really gelling to a level where he looks like a complete OL performer. Chester is only in his first year as a starter, and he's not at his natural C position. Grubbs is just a rookie, but looks to be learning in leaps and bounds. Yanda as well, but add to that he's moving to T from G. Gaither is so young he would only have been eligible to declare for the draft this upcoming year, as a junior.

Basically, we need to let these youngsters cut their teeth before we can make a final decision on whether they are right or wrong for us. If you're someone that wants a quick fix, then you basically would need to look for better players at LT, C, and RT (we're assuming Jason Brown and Grubbs are set as the Guards). C, maybe you go with Chris Chester, though it's still a tough transition, with C calling out the blocking changes. But you would look for LT in Round 1, have Terry start at LT until they can supplant him, and either get a RT in FA or the draft to supplant Yanda and Gaither.

My future line, as it stands right now:

Gaither (Terry starts next year, until Gaither is good enough to supplant him)
Brown
Chester
Grubbs
Yanda

There will be some cringy moments, but after a year or so, you will see this line turn the corner and start to make us feel comfortable. I'm not opposed to drafting LT in Round 1, but I think Gaither has the physical ability and upside to be JO's replacement.

[bmore finest]

At least i like the players we got to make a line. Now, where they all go , i don't quite know. But i love the upside of them and maybe a year or two it shows. But i would love to draft a true center, just in case. But as was said, this line should get better. I love the ideal of starting a young line. Get you battle tested for the years to come. I can see some promise in these guys. rough year for them but they are trying and thats all i can ask for.