Grade Troy Smith

[Dade]

I give his performance a C+. He wasn't great nor was he bad. Of course the 79 yard completion to Mason helped his stats. But the 2 sacks and lost fumbles hurt. He has great arm strength and can get away from the rush. He'll need that playing behind this OL. He has potential but I fear he will go down in flames like every other QB in this offense has.

[StingerNLG]

I don't think we can grade him. This was a losing situation for him. No QB would have been able to face down these odds. He had two balls that were should-have-been-picks, but other than that he was getting jobbed by his receivers and his OL.

A grade would be unfair.

[UKRavenStockers]

C+ from me too.

Positives:
- Good agility avoiding the rush.
- Able to get outside the pocket away from the rush to open up new passing lanes.
- Good enough arm on deep throws.
- Good composure in the hurry up.
- Made a series of good plays on 3rd and 4th downs thoroughout the game.
- Never really looked flustered.

Negatives:
- Too many low throws, far too many times the receivers were picking (or trying to) passes off their boot laces.
- We only scored 1 touchdown
- Forced some throws.
- Some off target throws.
- Fortunate to have a stone cold INT and a borderline stone cold INT dropped.
- Muffed handoff, not sure what went on there, both at fault.
- Fumble, can't be hanging the ball out there.


All in all I think it's something positive to take forward but nothing to be wetting ourselves with excitement about just yet. Considering the circumstances (rain, cold, hostile atmosphere) it's not too bad, but it's not what maybe people were hoping for to provide the silver lining to our season.......

[festivus]

I'll give him a C. Much better than Kyle's inaugural game. Doesn't deserve any better than that though, for the reason's stated.

Glad to watch him play, for sure.

[Sephy]

16/33, 199 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT (luckily).
With this O-line.
Without McGahee.
With a 3rd and 4th string TE.
Without a legitimate deep threat.
In those conditions.
With that crowd.
With that defense.

Is pretty damned good. B- from me. Would have been a B without the gimme INTs that were dropped.

[ravenwoman]

This game was not representative of our first string starters. In fact it looked worse than a pre-season game. I also don't think we are designing plays that play to his strengh, which is to roll out and throw the ball. The whole team looked horrible today and I was embarrassed to be a fan today.

[HoustonRaven]

C ..... considering the line he had to work with and the dropped passes.

I agree with Stocker points. He needs to tuck that ball away.

[festivus]

16/33, 199 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT (luckily).
With this O-line.
Without McGahee.
With a 3rd and 4th string TE.
Without a legitimate deep threat.
In those conditions.
With that crowd.
With that defense.

Is pretty damned good. B- from me. Would have been a B without the gimme INTs that were dropped.

Meh. That's the state of our entire offense more or less for the last few years, with the exception of last year when we had a decent set of receivers and OL who were healthy.

Heck if I'm giving him any credit I didn't give Kyle, but I readily agree with you most of those were legitimate hurdles for him to overcome.

[StingerNLG]

This is why I can't grade him. There is nothing Troy could have done to make any impact on the outcome of this game. There is nothing Tom Brady could have done to affect the outcome of this game.

There was no way to get into any kind of rhythm on offense, so of course some of his throws are going to be off. He made a couple bad throws, but all QB's do. The rest was simply the team around him not doing their job.

And just like we've seen with Kyle Boller, Steve McNair, and I'm not even bothering to list them all again, you just can't succeed at the QB position if the players around you can't play at an NFL level.

So Troy Smith still gets a total pass N/A from me tonight.

[Dade]

This is why I can't grade him. There is nothing Troy could have done to make any impact on the outcome of this game. There is nothing Tom Brady could have done to affect the outcome of this game.


I understand your point but it's not like the coaching staff won't evaluate him cause of the conditions he had to face.

[StingerNLG]

I understand your point but it's not like the coaching staff won't evaluate him cause of the conditions he had to face.

If that is the case, then it won't be a good evaluation. He did throw two balls into the hands of Seahawks, and fumbled the ball. They never operated in the redzone, and had one good throw for a touchdown. The entire offense generated 6 points, and couldn't even cross the 50 yard line until almost halftime.

I'm giving him a pass because of the conditions. Otherwise it's unfair.

[Heap86]

I give him a D.

He is not NFL starter material, has a good arm and mobility, but is very inaccurate. His best play was in garbage time, he did nothing in the game in the other 3 quarters.

The posters on the YBR board are drooling over him, he is a 5th round pick and possibly a future back-up with this team or some other team.

[crazyraven]

Look we lost this game by alot. But still there are some bright spots. The good thing is that the game seemed be easier for him in the second half. I did like the long TD and I did like that on occasion he was able to move around and try to make something happen. having no INT was nice for a change.
For the first game on the road with nothing much to play for, I will have to give Troy a B+ for effort but a C- on overall play. Things will get better with more reps

[Baltoman07]

I agree Troy didn't have a fair chance.....but I have to agree with Billick when he said Boller gives us our best chance to win.

[Heap86]

I agree Troy didn't have a fair chance.....but I have to agree with Billick when he said Boller gives us our best chance to win.

There isn't a QB on our roster who gives us the best chance to win.

That QB is not on this team yet.

[StingerNLG]

I give him a D.

He is not NFL starter material, has a good arm and mobility, but is very inaccurate. His best play was in garbage time, he did nothing in the game in the other 3 quarters.

The posters on the YBR board are drooling over him, he is a 5th round pick and possibly a future back-up with this team or some other team.

They're drooling because there is vast hypocrisy on that forum. But whatever.

That said, exactly what did you expect him to do with what he had to work with today? There was no way for him to win or even compete in this game. You can't place that on him.

[crazyraven]

Is anyone drooling? I havent seen high grades here.

Keep in mind we are talking about a 3rd string rookie (5TH ROUND PICK) qb who is being asked play without half the team. I think most are objective.

[Raven Domination]

JaMarcus Russell had a worse game for Oakland today...does that mean he's not NFL material? Scratch that...can you SERIOUSLY judge the worth of a rookie QB based on ONE game? No...you can't and it's idiotic to do so.

[OriAl]

No QB can play well without consistent pass protection. Smith had lousy pass protection, and, surprise, didn't play well. He has talent, but didn't have the chance to show it.

If anyone expected him to be a savior behind this line, they were unrealistic.

[UKRavenStockers]

JaMarcus Russell had a worse game for Oakland today...does that mean he's not NFL material? Scratch that...can you SERIOUSLY judge the worth of a rookie QB based on ONE game? No...you can't and it's idiotic to do so.

To the best of my knowledge no-one here is judging him on one performance. We're grading this one performance.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

B-, given the circumstances, losing our only true playmaker on offense early, tough place to play on the road, first start as a rookie. I thought he did some good things, and some not so good things, but certainly deserves an extended look.

[camdenyard]

I would love to have seen Smith play behind the Pats' OL, and Brady play behind ours. That would be fun to watch.

[Raven Domination]

Fact is...Troy Smith would have had to throw for well over 300 yards and 3 TDs to win that game by himself...without a running game. To expect that from a rookie QB in his first start against a playoff-bound team is beyond unrealistic. Like Stinger said, there's no possible way Troy Smith was going to win that game (especially after Willis went down)...period.

[StingerNLG]

Preston checked in with his score:


Quarterback: C-

Rookie quarterback Troy Smith did OK for his first start. He was erratic at times and fortunate not to have two or three passes picked off. He'll be sore Monday morning from the beating he took.

[ClericBlackDave]

Any grade is unfair to Troy Smith, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt JUST like I give that to Boller. I've seen Boller perform when he gets protection and WRs catch the ball, and I'm sure Troy can do the same if he gets support.


Honestly, this team's offensive woes aren't on Billick, and not on the QB, whatever his name may be.


Our O-line and WRs are inconsistent at blocking and catching. Our RBs couldn't pick up a blitz to save our lives BEFORE Willis McGahee. Willis has been a tough runner but, more importantly, adept at picking up the blitz. We don't have our probowl TE, who might be a bit soft.


And our defense is injured. We're starting our Junior Varisty team, other than Ed Reed.


Suggs and Scott are a dissapointment to me at this point. Overrated. We miss Ray, miss AD, miss Pryce.


This team needs to get healthy, draft well, and gel on the o-line.

[Mista T]

I can't believe some of what I'm reading above. He basically sucked until Seattle relaxed at the end of the game.

"D" until the bomb to Mason raised it to "D+"

[festivus]

T, those purple colored glasses some of our friends wear will end up betraying them in the end. :thumbup:

[RavenScallywag]

Considering this was his first full game in the NFL, I'd give him a C-...He sucked, but he looked about the same as any QB we've fielded this year, and he's only a rookie! I don't think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I'd give him a few more shots to work out the kinks.

[Big Bird]

BULLSHIT!!!

Although Troy is merely a rookie and has had minimal practice with the team, I think he did well. Consider the TD pass: Which of our QBs have shown that kind of accuracy. He put the ball right into the receivers hands.

Playing behind a young, makeshift O-line the kid did great. Remember, this was his first NFL game. I remember Unitas' 1st game - AWFUL!!!!

When this kid learns more about the offense, whats its like in the NFL (as opposed to college), and gets injured players healthy again in front of him, and an improved offensive line, he will look very good in my opinion.

Thats my story and I'm sticking with it. No matter how short he is...

:jester:

:usa:

[4G63]

I personally give him a C+.

When you consider he was on the road, had crappy protection, and it was generally "shitty" weather AND its his first NFL start......

Good job Troy! Lets put in a solid game next week and heres to you giving the coach's son a run for his money next preseason!!

[festivus]

I personally give him a C+.

When you consider he was on the road, had crappy protection, and it was generally "shitty" weather AND its his first NFL start......

Good job Troy! Lets put in a solid game next week and heres to you giving the coach's son a run for his money next preseason!!

I'm all for playing him, by the way. I don't think he did anything impressive, but what the hell, why not play him. It's not like Atlanta years ago, playing some goobers while Brett Favre sat on the bench.

I am once again surprised at the suggestion that Boller is 'the coach's son', you'd think after how bad McNair stunk it up, with Boller on the bench, people would see how wrong that claim is. Nevertheless it persists. . .

[crazyraven]

Although Troy is merely a rookie and has had minimal practice with the team, I think he did well. Consider the TD pass: Which of our QBs have shown that kind of accuracy. He put the ball right into the receivers hands.

Exactly right, That TD was a glimmer of hope. Things will get better with time and repetition for troy. Hey, Maybe it wont but it sure is fun seeing him move around and trying. We all know that other positions need to be upgraded next season with some new blood mixed in.

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

My grade for Troy? :thumbdown: But that is also for any QB that plays behind this Offensive line:grbac:
In retrospect, Troy deserves a C ;)

[danzor123]

BULLSHIT!!!

Although Troy is merely a rookie and has had minimal practice with the team, I think he did well. Consider the TD pass: Which of our QBs have shown that kind of accuracy. He put the ball right into the receivers hands.

Playing behind a young, makeshift O-line the kid did great. Remember, this was his first NFL game. I remember Unitas' 1st game - AWFUL!!!!

When this kid learns more about the offense, whats its like in the NFL (as opposed to college), and gets injured players healthy again in front of him, and an improved offensive line, he will look very good in my opinion.

Thats my story and I'm sticking with it. No matter how short he is...

:jester:

:usa:

Well, I have seen Troy play in the shoe a few times and believe me he can play this game. I totally agree with Jester. Build a team around him and let him play. Trust me, you wont be sorry. Ask Lloyd Carr. I am surprised by some of the lame statements from "football" fans? LMAO look up Dan Marino, Elway, or any other rookie quarterback's first game, great job Troy! Boller had 13 games to show what he has, he fails miserably F- to Kyle.

[ravenjoe]

B+ This guy exudes confidence; displays pocket presence; has a cannon for an arm; feels pressure in the pocket (which you definitely need playing behind this line); and is a winner! Start him next game, and beyond! You won't be sorry!

[danzor123]

I wish he was starting against LSU come Jan. 7th lol :laugh: Redemption!

Troy is a winner.... always has been, always will be. But I don;t think they will start him next week again. YAWNS! :bag:

[Greg]

Although Troy is merely a rookie and has had minimal practice with the team, I think he did well. Consider the TD pass: Which of our QBs have shown that kind of accuracy. He put the ball right into the receivers hands.
Oh please, I can give you a number of times Boller has thrown equally beautiful passes including the gem to Darling for a TD against NE. For the most part I saw a QB running for his life that threw very few good passes. He also tended to hold the ball too long just like Boller, which for our OL is about as long as it takes you to drop back and say "Oh Sh" before you get nailed.

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

Oh please, I can give you a number of times Boller has thrown equally beautiful passes including the gem to Darling for a TD against NE. For the most part I saw a QB running for his life that threw very few good passes. He also tended to hold the ball too long just like Boller, which for our OL is about as long as it takes you to drop back and say "Oh Sh" before you get nailed.

:iagree: You nailed it Greg:worthy:

[Greg]

LMAO look up Dan Marino, Elway, or any other rookie quarterback's first game, great job Troy!
Marino had a 117 rating in his first game and threw for 2 TDs and no picks. Maybe you should hold off on being "surprised by some of the lame statements from "football" fans."

[danzor123]

Marino had a 117 rating in his first game and threw for 2 TDs and no picks. Maybe you should hold off on being "surprised by some of the lame statements from "football" fans."

what is so stellar about 2 TD's? Stick with Kyle have at it, I'll become a lions fan, they lost less in a row than the Ravens. :rolling:

[StingerNLG]

Billick has a son?


And while I am thinking about it while people are talking about how much pocket presense Troy has, the fumble has been mysteriously forgotten. While we are talking about how much of a winner Troy is over Boller, the offense scored 6 points yesterday, and other than the TD throw never even touched the redzone.

And while I blame the OL and receivers for yesterday, some of you out there would have skewered Boller for the same game.

Its the hypocrisy I can never really figure out from some.

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

B+ This guy exudes confidence; displays pocket presence; has a cannon for an arm; feels pressure in the pocket (which you definitely need playing behind this line); and is a winner! Start him next game, and beyond! You won't be sorry!

Unlike Boller, Troy hasn't been injured behind our offensive offensive line yet:179421: ...Let him get a blown out knee in his first year and we'll see how comfortable he will feel in that pocket:thumbup:

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

what is so stellar about 2 TD's? Stick with Kyle have at it, I'll become a lions fan, they lost less in a row than the Ravens. :rolling:

We don't need fans like you anyway...Go and be well with your new team the Detroit Lions:thumbup:

[ravenjoe]

Unlike Boller, Troy hasn't been injured behind our offensive offensive line either:179421: ...Let him get a blown out knee in his first year and we'll see how comfortable he will be in the pocket:thumbup:
Injuries, or not, Troy has the intangibles that makes him a playmaker, and a winner! We do not need to draft a QB in this year's draft; we have more pressing needs! I would start Troy the last game, and let him battle Kyle for next year's start!

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

Injuries, or not, Troy has the intangibles that makes him a playmaker, and a winner! We do not need to draft a QB in this year's draft; we have more pressing needs! I would start Troy the last game, and let him battle Kyle for next year's start!

I have nothing against Troy...But what about the main intangible....The Offensive line??:229031_confused2: We've already had 2 QB's go down this year and I'm just waiting for Troy's turn...Maybe next week we'll have to plug in Cullen Finnerty half way into the game...I was very concerned for Troy yesterday...That O-line has NO stability, NONE!:grbac:

[Raven Domination]

Marino had a 117 rating in his first game and threw for 2 TDs and no picks. Maybe you should hold off on being "surprised by some of the lame statements from "football" fans."


Year CMP ATT YDS CMP% TD INT QB Rating
Tom Brady 2001 13 23 168 56.5 0 0 79.6
Donovan Mcnabb 2000 16 28 130 57.1 1 2 51.2
Peyton Manning 2000 22 32 273 68.8 1 1 92.3
Michael Vick 2001 12 30 176 40 0 1 46
B. Roethlisberger 2004 12 22 163 54.5 1 1 82.5

Troy Smith 2007 16 33 199 48.5 1 0 79.6

MOST rookie QB's don't look too good in their first games...even the future HOFer's. Point is...judging Smith on his first game is simply asinine and dumb. WTF were you expecting him to do? Throw 3 TDs?

[Greg]

Injuries, or not, Troy has the intangibles that makes him a playmaker, and a winner!
BWAH! I can recall (probably from some of these same posters) the very same things said ABOUT Boller when so many were clamoring for him to start ahead of Redman. It is a shame those boards aren't archived somewhere.


MOST rookie QB's don't look too good in their first games...even the future HOFer's. Point is...judging Smith on his first game is simply asinine and dumb. WTF were you expecting him to do? Throw 3 TDs?
I am not judging him at all, except to say he looks eerily similar to Boller behind our OL and most QBs would. But this guy comes on here insulting other "football fans" and then says Marino didn't have a very good first game when I knew damn well he had.

Then he drops this gem:

what is so stellar about 2 TD's? Stick with Kyle have at it, I'll become a lions fan, they lost less in a row than the Ravens.
2 TDs, no picks and a 117 rating is stellar.

If he needs bus fare to Detroit I am sure we can scrape it together for him.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Nothing he did yesterday changed my opinion of him and his upside.

He can play in this league, but I'm sorry, I don't think he will end up any better than say...Jeff Blake...minus the 'tude and major chip on his shoulder.

We still need a QB IMHO

[purplepoe]

Billick has a son?


And while I am thinking about it while people are talking about how much pocket presense Troy has, the fumble has been mysteriously forgotten. While we are talking about how much of a winner Troy is over Boller, the offense scored 6 points yesterday, and other than the TD throw never even touched the redzone.

And while I blame the OL and receivers for yesterday, some of you out there would have skewered Boller for the same game.

Its the hypocrisy I can never really figure out from some.

Say what?

I certainly wouldn't expect a 5 year vet who was a 1st round pick to play a game like a 5th round rookie would play.

You're damn right I'd skewer Boller if he had a game like Smith had.

Are you saying that Boller should not get more criticism than Smith at this point in their careers?

Cmon Sting.

PP

[danzor123]

BWAH! I can recall (probably from some of these same posters) the very same things said ABOUT Boller when so many were clamoring for him to start ahead of Redman. It is a shame those boards aren't archived somewhere.


I am not judging him at all, except to say he looks eerily similar to Boller behind our OL and most QBs would. But this guy comes on here insulting other "football fans" and then says Marino didn't have a very good first game when I knew damn well he had.

Then he drops this gem:

2 TDs, no picks and a 117 rating is stellar.

If he needs bus fare to Detroit I am sure we can scrape it together for him.

Naw I'll stick around thx, I'm a Troy fan, always have been. My point is people want to bash or grade or whatever a player that has sat on the sidelines and see his team lose week after week. Finally gets a shot and you armchair QB's trash him after 1 game? LMAO Let me think here, oh yeah, 3 wins over Michigan, Notre Dame totally thrashed, um oh yeah not to mention Killing Texas at their home field. Stick to the topic, grade Troy Smith I'd say C+.
Give the guy another start and I hope for the future of the Ravens, you are all wrong about Troy. " Fame away " :141847_bdmoon:

[StingerNLG]

You are damn right that is what I am saying PP.

Look me in the monitor and with a straight face and no fingers crossed that the offense looked ANY different yesterday than it has with Boller in there. Tell me the offense played any better with Smith in there.

That is the hypocrisy I am talking about. This offense is incapable of sustaining good QB play no matter who it is. And in 5 years with the way this offense is currently constructed and put out on the field Troy Smith would have the same marginal progress every year and lack of success.

Anything else is a simple double standard. And I think deep down you agree with me, but just don't like Boller enough to not look at the entire picture.

[btownraven]

Year CMP ATT YDS CMP% TD INT QB Rating
Peyton Manning 1998 21 37 302 56.8 1 3 58.6

Troy Smith 2007 16 33 199 48.5 1 0 79.6

MOST rookie QB's don't look too good in their first games...even the future HOFer's. Point is...judging Smith on his first game is simply asinine and dumb. WTF were you expecting him to do? Throw 3 TDs?
Peyton Manning's first game was in 1998. He went 21-37 with 302 yds, 1 TD, 3 INT's and a 58.6 rating (corrected above). In fact, he did not have even a 70 QB rating in a game until Week 7 and followed that performance with 3 straight sub-70 ratings. He played much better after about 10 games and ended up with a 71.3 rating for the year.

[purplepoe]

You are damn right that is what I am saying PP.

Look me in the monitor and with a straight face and no fingers crossed that the offense looked ANY different yesterday than it has with Boller in there. Tell me the offense played any better with Smith in there.

That is the hypocrisy I am talking about. This offense is incapable of sustaining good QB play no matter who it is. And in 5 years with the way this offense is currently constructed and put out on the field Troy Smith would have the same marginal progress every year and lack of success.

Anything else is a simple double standard. And I think deep down you agree with me, but just don't like Boller enough to not look at the entire picture.

No, it didn't look any different. In fact, IMO it looked worse.

And that's a major problem.

The QB play has SUCKED.

I fall on the side that we haven't hand very good QBs Stinger.

Do you really think our "system" is that much different than many other "systems" in the NFL? You can blame the system for all the woes. Me? I think we've had shitty QBs and bad OL play. Period.

You don't think a 5 year vet that was a first round pick shouldn't be able to perform better than a 5th round rookie making his first start on the road?

It's not about "disliking" Boller. Im calling a spade a spade. The guy isn't good. Never has been good. And I've seen 5 years of it.

I've seen ONE start from Troy Smith.

Of course the offense didn't look any better with Smith. I didn't say it did.

What I said was I wouldn't expect it to. However, I would expect Boller, at this stage in his career, to play better than Smith did yesterday.

And I think he would've to be honest.

Im a little confused at your response.

My point is this.

Boller, as a 5 year vet, should absolutely be able to perform better than Smith at this point. I certainly don't think Smith performed better than what Boller would've done.

PP

[OriAl]

Ozzie has built offensive lines to run block, not pass block. As a result, our QBs struggle, as would whatever poor sap we draft to replace the current crop (which is why we shouldn't draft one - we have bigger needs.) Improve our offenSIEVE line, and we'll improve our QB, be he Smith, Boller, or someone else.

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

Ozzie has built offensive lines to run block, not pass block. As a result, our QBs struggle, as would whatever poor sap we draft to replace the current crop (which is why we shouldn't draft one - we have bigger needs.) Improve our offenSIEVE line, and we'll improve our QB, be he Smith, Boller, or someone else.

:iagree: :worthy: :iagree: :worthy: :iagree: :worthy: :iagree: :worthy: :iagree: :worthy: :iagree: :worthy: :iagree: :worthy: :iagree::worthy::iagree::worthy:

[darb72]

First off, I didn't see the game. We had Christmas at my moms and I honestly didn't feel like paying DirectTV 50 bucks to watch the Ravens get blasted. Made that mistake earlier this year.

Secondly, it went off about like I figured it would. From what I've read here Smith looked bad just like every other QB we've had come down the pike, with the exception of two games every year where we look unstoppable. Smith may wind up being a HOF QB for all we know, but it won't happen in Baltimore.

"Do you really think our "system" is that much different than many other "systems" in the NFL? You can blame the system for all the woes. Me? I think we've had shitty QBs and bad OL play. Period."

List? Everybody loves list!

-Tony Banks
-Trent Dilfer
-The kid from "Friday Night Lights" Texas (can't remember his name, but he beat Atlanta in '99)
-The Water Buffalo
-Elvis Grbac
-Randall Cunningham
-Steve McNair
-Jeff Blake
-Chris Redman
-Kyle Boller
-Anthony Wright
-Troy Smith

I forget anybody who's started for the Ravens during Billicks tenure?

That's 12 starting QBs we've had. Cunningham is the only one to put up an 80 or higher QB rating and that was only for two games. Odds are that eventually we'd find a decent one. I'm not talking Pro-Bowl material here, I just mean one that can put up a mid-80s QB rating over six games.

Would Boller have played better than Smith? Meh, probably given he's played longer, but not enough to win the game. All Ravens QBs, and I do mean all of them, play much worse on the road. I've done the research to prove it and most people on this forum have seen it.

It's the system. Flat out, it's the SYSTEM. Would having Brady or Manning make a difference? Sure it would because they are two of the greatest QBs in NFL history. Would either of them be going to Pro-Bowls on a consistant basis or be considered one of the best in the league? Pro-Bowls I can see because their talent is undeniable but they wouldn't be the best in the league.

Put one of the second tier QBs on our roster and they would become borderline starters like Jon Kitna. ToothlessBurger, Hasselbeck and Brees never sniff the Pro-Bowl in a Ravens uniform. Don't believe me, just look at McNair and Grbac.

Einstein once said that insanity is repeating the same actions over and over, but expecting different results. Pretty good example of what we have here.

-Banks and Dilfer suck, let's bring in a Pro-Bowl QB and change nothing else.
-Grbac sucks, let's put in the home-grown talent we've let learn on the sidelines but change nothing else.
-Redman sucks, so let's go with the strong armed Blake but change nothing else.
-Blake and Redman suck so let's draft a strong-armed rookie and toss him in the fire but change nothing else.
-Boller sucks so let's get a former NFL-MVP but change nothing else.
-McNair sucks so let's go back to Boller after letting him learn but change nothing else.
-Boller and McNair suck so let's put in a fifth round rookie who won the Heisman last year but change nothing else.
-Troy Smith comes in and..... you guessed it, he sucked.

We can do the same thing with OCs if you want, but I really hope my point has been made.

The reason I didn't bash Boller is the same reason I'm not going to bash Smith. This system is a QB killer. Bollers stats suck just like Troys do. Just like (fill in any QB we've had). If nothing else changes, in five years the same people who were saying Boller would be our savior but now hate him and think Smith is going to be our savior (CrazyRaven, PurplePoe, Evade, etc...) are going to hate Troy Smith.

Because we changed nothing else.

[Dont Know]

:iagree:

[purplepoe]

First off, I didn't see the game. We had Christmas at my moms and I honestly didn't feel like paying DirectTV 50 bucks to watch the Ravens get blasted. Made that mistake earlier this year.

Secondly, it went off about like I figured it would. From what I've read here Smith looked bad just like every other QB we've had come down the pike, with the exception of two games every year where we look unstoppable. Smith may wind up being a HOF QB for all we know, but it won't happen in Baltimore.

"Do you really think our "system" is that much different than many other "systems" in the NFL? You can blame the system for all the woes. Me? I think we've had shitty QBs and bad OL play. Period."

List? Everybody loves list!

-Tony Banks
-Trent Dilfer
-The kid from "Friday Night Lights" Texas (can't remember his name, but he beat Atlanta in '99)
-The Water Buffalo
-Elvis Grbac
-Randall Cunningham
-Steve McNair
-Jeff Blake
-Chris Redman
-Kyle Boller
-Anthony Wright
-Troy Smith

I forget anybody who's started for the Ravens during Billicks tenure?

That's 12 starting QBs we've had. Cunningham is the only one to put up an 80 or higher QB rating and that was only for two games. Odds are that eventually we'd find a decent one. I'm not talking Pro-Bowl material here, I just mean one that can put up a mid-80s QB rating over six games.

Would Boller have played better than Smith? Meh, probably given he's played longer, but not enough to win the game. All Ravens QBs, and I do mean all of them, play much worse on the road. I've done the research to prove it and most people on this forum have seen it.

It's the system. Flat out, it's the SYSTEM. Would having Brady or Manning make a difference? Sure it would because they are two of the greatest QBs in NFL history. Would either of them be going to Pro-Bowls on a consistant basis or be considered one of the best in the league? Pro-Bowls I can see because their talent is undeniable but they wouldn't be the best in the league.

Put one of the second tier QBs on our roster and they would become borderline starters like Jon Kitna. ToothlessBurger, Hasselbeck and Brees never sniff the Pro-Bowl in a Ravens uniform. Don't believe me, just look at McNair and Grbac.

Einstein once said that insanity is repeating the same actions over and over, but expecting different results. Pretty good example of what we have here.

-Banks and Dilfer suck, let's bring in a Pro-Bowl QB and change nothing else.
-Grbac sucks, let's put in the home-grown talent we've let learn on the sidelines but change nothing else.
-Redman sucks, so let's go with the strong armed Blake but change nothing else.
-Blake and Redman suck so let's draft a strong-armed rookie and toss him in the fire but change nothing else.
-Boller sucks so let's get a former NFL-MVP but change nothing else.
-McNair sucks so let's go back to Boller after letting him learn but change nothing else.
-Boller and McNair suck so let's put in a fifth round rookie who won the Heisman last year but change nothing else.
-Troy Smith comes in and..... you guessed it, he sucked.

We can do the same thing with OCs if you want, but I really hope my point has been made.

The reason I didn't bash Boller is the same reason I'm not going to bash Smith. This system is a QB killer. Bollers stats suck just like Troys do. Just like (fill in any QB we've had). If nothing else changes, in five years the same people who were saying Boller would be our savior but now hate him and think Smith is going to be our savior (CrazyRaven, PurplePoe, Evade, etc...) are going to hate Troy Smith.

Because we changed nothing else.

First of all, regarding Smith. I didn't think the guy even earned the right to make the team.

So you can save your "savior" stuff for someone else.

My sole point was that I would expect a 5 year vet to perform better than a rookie 5th round pick in his first start. Is that really such a crazy thought? Again, Im pretty stunned that people are saying "Smith sucks too" because his first start was crappy. 1 start compared to 40? Cmon.

Stoney Case is the guy you forgot on your list.

I still stand by the fact that we haven't had a great QB on this roster since Billick came here.

And I will absolutely put much of that blame on Ozzie Newsome. That along with the fact that he continually ignored pretty much the entire offensive side of the ball until recently has led us to where we are now.

This thread is about Troy Smith, right?

Of course he stunk yesterday. Hell, I would've expected him to suck with a full set of offensive players. On the road in Seattle? Good lord.

PP

[btownraven]

First off, I didn't see the game. We had Christmas at my moms and I honestly didn't feel like paying DirectTV 50 bucks to watch the Ravens get blasted. Made that mistake earlier this year.

Secondly, it went off about like I figured it would. From what I've read here Smith looked bad just like every other QB we've had come down the pike, with the exception of two games every year where we look unstoppable. Smith may wind up being a HOF QB for all we know, but it won't happen in Baltimore.

"Do you really think our "system" is that much different than many other "systems" in the NFL? You can blame the system for all the woes. Me? I think we've had shitty QBs and bad OL play. Period."

List? Everybody loves list!

-Tony Banks
-Trent Dilfer
-The kid from "Friday Night Lights" Texas (can't remember his name, but he beat Atlanta in '99)
-The Water Buffalo
-Elvis Grbac
-Randall Cunningham
-Steve McNair
-Jeff Blake
-Chris Redman
-Kyle Boller
-Anthony Wright
-Troy Smith

I forget anybody who's started for the Ravens during Billicks tenure?

That's 12 starting QBs we've had. Cunningham is the only one to put up an 80 or higher QB rating and that was only for two games. Odds are that eventually we'd find a decent one. I'm not talking Pro-Bowl material here, I just mean one that can put up a mid-80s QB rating over six games.

Would Boller have played better than Smith? Meh, probably given he's played longer, but not enough to win the game. All Ravens QBs, and I do mean all of them, play much worse on the road. I've done the research to prove it and most people on this forum have seen it.

It's the system. Flat out, it's the SYSTEM. Would having Brady or Manning make a difference? Sure it would because they are two of the greatest QBs in NFL history. Would either of them be going to Pro-Bowls on a consistant basis or be considered one of the best in the league? Pro-Bowls I can see because their talent is undeniable but they wouldn't be the best in the league.

Put one of the second tier QBs on our roster and they would become borderline starters like Jon Kitna. ToothlessBurger, Hasselbeck and Brees never sniff the Pro-Bowl in a Ravens uniform. Don't believe me, just look at McNair and Grbac.

Einstein once said that insanity is repeating the same actions over and over, but expecting different results. Pretty good example of what we have here.

-Banks and Dilfer suck, let's bring in a Pro-Bowl QB and change nothing else.
-Grbac sucks, let's put in the home-grown talent we've let learn on the sidelines but change nothing else.
-Redman sucks, so let's go with the strong armed Blake but change nothing else.
-Blake and Redman suck so let's draft a strong-armed rookie and toss him in the fire but change nothing else.
-Boller sucks so let's get a former NFL-MVP but change nothing else.
-McNair sucks so let's go back to Boller after letting him learn but change nothing else.
-Boller and McNair suck so let's put in a fifth round rookie who won the Heisman last year but change nothing else.
-Troy Smith comes in and..... you guessed it, he sucked.

We can do the same thing with OCs if you want, but I really hope my point has been made.

The reason I didn't bash Boller is the same reason I'm not going to bash Smith. This system is a QB killer. Bollers stats suck just like Troys do. Just like (fill in any QB we've had). If nothing else changes, in five years the same people who were saying Boller would be our savior but now hate him and think Smith is going to be our savior (CrazyRaven, PurplePoe, Evade, etc...) are going to hate Troy Smith.

Because we changed nothing else.

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[StingerNLG]

Darb pretty much took my point and expanded on it more than I thought about doing. Even Mike Preston summed up my feelings about this.

I don't understand how you cannot correllate QB play to the play of the rest of the offense, especially when the evidence reaches out and smackes you in the back of the head repeatedly. It goes like this:

- Offensive line does its job, receivers get open and catch passes, running game is productive, QB plays well.

- Offensive line cannot block, running game not allowed to be productive, receivers drop passes, QB plays poorly.

Those who think the QB makes the OL play better need to come up with an excuse why Troy Smith couldn't make the OL look better Sunday.

The answer is simple. Its not the QB that is the issue. Troy Smith wasn't exactly that "breath of fresh air" was he?

Troy Smith didn't magically create a pocket that hasn't been there for the last 11 QB's before him.

Troy Smith didn't make JO and Mike Flynn make all of a sudden make blocks he hasn't made all year.

Troy Smith didn't magically make Willis McGahee run better and stop him from getting hit constantly behind the LOS.

Troy Smith didn't magically stop us from being in several 3rd and long situations.

Troy Smith didn't stop us from throwing a 3 yard pass on 3rd down with 7 yards to go.

PP, trying to say you can't compare a 5 year vet to a rookie is missing the point entirely. That 5 year vet has played in the same broken down, non-working system that the rookie was thrown into. And so the results are the same because despite the talents of both QB's, the offensive system is not built to take any advantage of their strengths.

No, instead we shoehorn every QB into the same system and then tell that QB to just manage the game and try not to lose.


The shame of it is that the mindset is that every QB we have had since Billick has been here sucked. Not the system, or the pieces around them. No, all our past QB's sucked.

Forget that three of them have been to pro-bowls prior to coming here.

Forget that one draft pick set NCAA passing records and was publically endorsed by Johnny Unitas.

Forget that one QB threw for over 4000 yards the very year before we picked him up.

No, they all sucked and QB play has nothing to do with the pieces around him.

Sorry, but there is zero evidence anyone can bring up and show right now to prove that too me.


Troy Smith is 0-1 right now. And he should never have been in that position to begin with. If he starts next week he'll be 0-2 and it will be totally unfair.

[purplepoe]

Darb pretty much took my point and expanded on it more than I thought about doing. Even Mike Preston summed up my feelings about this.

I don't understand how you cannot correllate QB play to the play of the rest of the offense, especially when the evidence reaches out and smackes you in the back of the head repeatedly. It goes like this:

- Offensive line does its job, receivers get open and catch passes, running game is productive, QB plays well.

- Offensive line cannot block, running game not allowed to be productive, receivers drop passes, QB plays poorly.

Those who think the QB makes the OL play better need to come up with an excuse why Troy Smith couldn't make the OL look better Sunday.

The answer is simple. Its not the QB that is the issue. Troy Smith wasn't exactly that "breath of fresh air" was he?

Troy Smith didn't magically create a pocket that hasn't been there for the last 11 QB's before him.

Troy Smith didn't make JO and Mike Flynn make all of a sudden make blocks he hasn't made all year.

Troy Smith didn't magically make Willis McGahee run better and stop him from getting hit constantly behind the LOS.

Troy Smith didn't magically stop us from being in several 3rd and long situations.

Troy Smith didn't stop us from throwing a 3 yard pass on 3rd down with 7 yards to go.

PP, trying to say you can't compare a 5 year vet to a rookie is missing the point entirely. That 5 year vet has played in the same broken down, non-working system that the rookie was thrown into. And so the results are the same because despite the talents of both QB's, the offensive system is not built to take any advantage of their strengths.

No, instead we shoehorn every QB into the same system and then tell that QB to just manage the game and try not to lose.


The shame of it is that the mindset is that every QB we have had since Billick has been here sucked. Not the system, or the pieces around them. No, all our past QB's sucked.

Forget that three of them have been to pro-bowls prior to coming here.

Forget that one draft pick set NCAA passing records and was publically endorsed by Johnny Unitas.

Forget that one QB threw for over 4000 yards the very year before we picked him up.

No, they all sucked and QB play has nothing to do with the pieces around him.

Sorry, but there is zero evidence anyone can bring up and show right now to prove that too me.


Troy Smith is 0-1 right now. And he should never have been in that position to begin with. If he starts next week he'll be 0-2 and it will be totally unfair.

Good lord.

I say that I would expect and 5th year QB (no matter what "system" he's been in) to perform a little better than 5th round rookie making his first start on the road vs playoff team and it turns into this.

I get labled as someone who thinks Smith is the savior (when I've been clear that I don't think he should have made the team). And really, I don't need you insinuating that I can't see our offensive woes (i.e. smacked in the back of the head repeatedly). Spare me.

I've never said a good QB is some magic bullet. But a good QB would damn sure help this team.

Some of you can act like that's a crazy thought.

Me? I think it's perfectly reasonable.

PP

[Dade]

Darb pretty much took my point and expanded on it more than I thought about doing. Even Mike Preston summed up my feelings about this.

I don't understand how you cannot correllate QB play to the play of the rest of the offense, especially when the evidence reaches out and smackes you in the back of the head repeatedly. It goes like this:

- Offensive line does its job, receivers get open and catch passes, running game is productive, QB plays well.

- Offensive line cannot block, running game not allowed to be productive, receivers drop passes, QB plays poorly.

Those who think the QB makes the OL play better need to come up with an excuse why Troy Smith couldn't make the OL look better Sunday.

The answer is simple. Its not the QB that is the issue. Troy Smith wasn't exactly that "breath of fresh air" was he?

Troy Smith didn't magically create a pocket that hasn't been there for the last 11 QB's before him.

Troy Smith didn't make JO and Mike Flynn make all of a sudden make blocks he hasn't made all year.

Troy Smith didn't magically make Willis McGahee run better and stop him from getting hit constantly behind the LOS.

Troy Smith didn't magically stop us from being in several 3rd and long situations.

Troy Smith didn't stop us from throwing a 3 yard pass on 3rd down with 7 yards to go.

PP, trying to say you can't compare a 5 year vet to a rookie is missing the point entirely. That 5 year vet has played in the same broken down, non-working system that the rookie was thrown into. And so the results are the same because despite the talents of both QB's, the offensive system is not built to take any advantage of their strengths.

No, instead we shoehorn every QB into the same system and then tell that QB to just manage the game and try not to lose.


The shame of it is that the mindset is that every QB we have had since Billick has been here sucked. Not the system, or the pieces around them. No, all our past QB's sucked.

Forget that three of them have been to pro-bowls prior to coming here.

Forget that one draft pick set NCAA passing records and was publically endorsed by Johnny Unitas.

Forget that one QB threw for over 4000 yards the very year before we picked him up.

No, they all sucked and QB play has nothing to do with the pieces around him.

Sorry, but there is zero evidence anyone can bring up and show right now to prove that too me.


Troy Smith is 0-1 right now. And he should never have been in that position to begin with. If he starts next week he'll be 0-2 and it will be totally unfair.

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

BB is too stubborn to change the offense scheme to play to a QB strengthes. I still believe Boller would have have turned into a starter if BB would have built a O line that could protect him. When faced with pressure Boller does get happy feet and makes quick bad decisions. But when given time he's pretty damn good.

Same applies to Troy. Instead of 1st down run, 2nd down run, 3rd down seven step drop pass; how about more play action pass or roll outs. Troy is fast and can make more plays on the run than from the pocket. Until he learns how to play from the pocket don't expect him to be a pure pocket passer, i.e. Donovan McNabb.

No one is saying that one game made or broke Troy's NFL career. I think its okay to give a fair assessment of his proformance regardless of the conditions he faced. I hope he starts against Shitsburgh, and hopefully he learned from the mistakes he made Sunday, like holding onto the ball like it's a loaf of bread. He seems like a smart kid and has alot of upside. After watching him play I no longer think we need to draft a QB first round. We need depth at CB, a pass rushing DE, or a home run hitter in a WR.

[Dade]

Good lord.

I say that I would expect and 5th year QB (no matter what "system" he's been in) to perform a little better than 5th round rookie making his first start on the road vs playoff team and it turns into this.

I get labled as someone who thinks Smith is the savior (when I've been clear that I don't think he should have made the team). And really, I don't need you insinuating that I can't see our offensive woes (i.e. smacked in the back of the head repeatedly). Spare me.

I've never said a good QB is some magic bullet. But a good QB would damn sure help this team.

Some of you can act like that's a crazy thought.

Me? I think it's perfectly reasonable.

PP


Yes a good QB would help this team, but it's just painfully obivious that any QB, be it Peyton or Brady, will find little success in this system.

[ravenjoe]

Troy Smith wasn't exactly that "breath of fresh air" was he?

Imo, I think Troy Smith WAS a Breath of Fresh Air! I saw someone who looked 'comfortable' in the pocket (i.e. no 'happy' feet); sensed pressure; reacted instinctively; throws a 'nice' ball; and has a hell of a strong arm. Granted he made some mistakes; but, come on, this was his FIRST professional start against a playoff team. Yes, to me, Troy Smith demonstrated qualities that Steve McNair exhibited during most of last year.

[darb72]

"I say that I would expect and 5th year QB (no matter what "system" he's been in) to perform a little better than 5th round rookie making his first start on the road vs playoff team and it turns into this."

Actually I was going on the whole, "we haven't had a good QB" quote of yours. We haven't even had decent QB play from the 12 QBs and Stinger was wrong when he said three of them went to the Pro-Bowl. Five or six of them have gone to the Pro-Bowl. Dilfer, Grbac, Cunningham, Blake, McNair and I think Banks went before he got here though I may be wrong about that one.

Troy was going to make this team. Did he deserve it? Not sure to be honest, but we knew he would. The fact that he did and he looked exactly like every other QB we've started speaks volumes though. This system makes every QB look the same. They post the same stats, and they have the same problems.

[purplepoe]

Yes a good QB would help this team, but it's just painfully obivious that any QB, be it Peyton or Brady, will find little success in this system.

Really?

Have we had ANYTHING close to a QB like that?

Brian Billick did coordinate an offense that will hold the league record for points for about another week didn't he?

I remember a little "crystal ball" controversy that went on here for years.

Seems like now the shoe is on the other foot.

System or lack of good players?

Both?

Most likely.

So am I to believe from some of you that getting a new offense here is gonna make the players we have on offense better? Gonna stop the stupid penalties at crucial times? Gonna stop the piss poor decision making? Gonna stop shitty throws or bad drops?

You all wanna beat the system drum. That's fine.

I'll be in the drum section that believes we haven't had nearly enough talent on the offensive side of the ball. And haven't had it for years.

Just 3 months ago all I was hearing was how the WRs were open and our QB was a wussy and checked down. And how a QB with the stronger arm would make us explosive.

Now?

Not so much.

PP

[purplepoe]

"I say that I would expect and 5th year QB (no matter what "system" he's been in) to perform a little better than 5th round rookie making his first start on the road vs playoff team and it turns into this."

Actually I was going on the whole, "we haven't had a good QB" quote of yours. We haven't even had decent QB play from the 12 QBs and Stinger was wrong when he said three of them went to the Pro-Bowl. Five or six of them have gone to the Pro-Bowl. Dilfer, Grbac, Cunningham, Blake, McNair and I think Banks went before he got here though I may be wrong about that one.

Troy was going to make this team. Did he deserve it? Not sure to be honest, but we knew he would. The fact that he did and he looked exactly like every other QB we've started speaks volumes though. This system makes every QB look the same. They post the same stats, and they have the same problems.


Jonathan Ogden is going to the Pro Bowl this season.

You and I both know that using the Pro Bowl argument can be picked apart like a nice MD blue crab.

Banks never made it.

Blake made it once in 1995. 7 before coming here. And our 2002 team was GUTTED. Again, I go back to the talent on offense that Ozzie Newsome has given us.

Once again, Im not sure what you all expected from Smith on Sunday.

PP

[purplepoe]

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

BB is too stubborn to change the offense scheme to play to a QB strengthes. I still believe Boller would have have turned into a starter if BB would have built a O line that could protect him. When faced with pressure Boller does get happy feet and makes quick bad decisions. But when given time he's pretty damn good.

This is EXACTLY my point.

It's not Brian Billick's job to build an OL.

That's the job of Ozzie Newsome. Period.

He has the final say in all personel decisions.

I've grown tired of Billick for various reasons.

But it drives me nuts when people sit here and blame him for our personel.

When does Ozzie get some blame?

PP

[darb72]

Merry Christmas Poe.

I didn't think Boller being put in would make us more explosive. I just wanted a QB who could actually throw the ball 15 yards down field.

To me Boller and Smith are interchangeable, just like every other QB we've had here. Check the stats if you want to. You say it's because of the lack of talent on the offensive side, and I'm going to say that's a problem with the system. The Ravens have never put a high priority on the offensive line and that kills the QB. That is a part of the, "system".

Another part is that we play not to lose on the offensive side. You know that as well as I do. Our game plan is always, "(Random QBs Name) don't do anything stupid and hope our defense gets us in field-goal range." That is a part of the, "system".

Ok, I think I'm gonna go grab Christmas dinner. Merry Christmas folks.

[purplepoe]

Merry Christmas Poe.

I didn't think Boller being put in would make us more explosive. I just wanted a QB who could actually throw the ball 15 yards down field.

To me Boller and Smith are interchangeable, just like every other QB we've had here. Check the stats if you want to. You say it's because of the lack of talent on the offensive side, and I'm going to say that's a problem with the system. The Ravens have never put a high priority on the offensive line and that kills the QB. That is a part of the, "system".

Another part is that we play not to lose on the offensive side. You know that as well as I do. Our game plan is always, "(Random QBs Name) don't do anything stupid and hope our defense gets us in field-goal range." That is a part of the, "system".

Ok, I think I'm gonna go grab Christmas dinner. Merry Christmas folks.

Merry Christmas to you as well.

Lack of talent on the offensive side is part of the system to you?

Who do you blame for that?

PP

[darb72]

"Once again, Im not sure what you all expected from Smith on Sunday."

Same thing I expected when we signed McNair, drafted Boller, etc... That he would post sucky stats.

I think we're not in complete agreement about what the, "system", means. I think our inability to draft decent players on the offensive side of the ball is part of the system. You don't get an offense as terrible as ours from just one problem. The FO doesn't draft great talent, the play-calling is questionable at best, and the whole attitude of letting the defense win the games are all part of the system and huge parts of the problem.

[darb72]

I blame the entire organization for the lack of talent drafted on the offensive side of the ball. To this day I don't know why we drafted Travis Taylor. You never, ever, EVER draft Florida WRs. They suck.

I wasn't a huge fan of drafting Jamal either since we had Priest Holmes at that time. He wound up being decent but Priest was a better all around RB in my opinion. And yes, I said that at the time we drafted Jamal.

Ozzie gets the majority of the blame for drafting because that's his job. Still part of the system.

[purplepoe]

I blame the entire organization for the lack of talent drafted on the offensive side of the ball. To this day I don't know why we drafted Travis Taylor. You never, ever, EVER draft Florida WRs. They suck.

I wasn't a huge fan of drafting Jamal either since we had Priest Holmes at that time. He wound up being decent but Priest was a better all around RB in my opinion. And yes, I said that at the time we drafted Jamal.

Ozzie gets the majority of the blame for drafting because that's his job. Still part of the system.
Im gonna respond to both of your posts on this one.

First and foremost I expected Troy Smith to struggle because it was his first start and he's a 5th round rookie. That coupled with it being a road game, at possibly the hardest stadium for a road to play in, along with the fact that our best receiving threat was sidelined again all add up to a no win situation.

But my point is Ozzie really doesn't get much blame.

Examples of that can be found on this very thread and throughout every Ravens messageboard and on every radio show etc...

You get the "Billick drafted Boller" stuff yet Ozzie gets credit for drafting Ed Reed.

Billick gets roasted for Taylor (not by you) and Ozzie gets praise for Suggs.

I think you are right in that we have a different view of our "system". I basically take it (because it seems like it's this way on the board) as our offense on the field. Meaning Billick's offense. You are encompassing the whole organization as the system. Understood now.

We all want this offense to be better.

Im of the belief that it's much more a talent issue than an issue of the offensive system.

Seems like that's a ridiculous notion to some.

But I'll stand by my statement that you need the horses to run the race. And this team has not had nearly enough good horses.

PP

[HoustonRaven]

Getting back on topic, I just watched the game recap on iTunes.

Troy has pretty strong fundamentals in the pocket. His drop and delivery is very smooth. The ball is always high (sometimes higher than his shoulder) and he thankfully doesnt have a huge wind up like some QB's have.

I didnt see anything spectacular from this kid for his first start, but seeing confidence behind center is refreshing. Now will someone PLEASE draft linemen to protect the kid!

[purplepoe]

Getting back on topic, I just watched the game recap on iTunes.

Troy has pretty strong fundamentals in the pocket. His drop and delivery is very smooth. The ball is always high (sometimes higher than his shoulder) and he thankfully doesnt have a huge wind up like some QB's have.

I didnt see anything spectacular from this kid for his first start, but seeing confidence behind center is refreshing. Now will someone PLEASE draft linemen to protect the kid!

I got news for ya.

We've already got most of the OL for the future already on the team.

What position do you want us to draft on the OL?

I could see us drafting later in the draft for depth, but I seriously doubt you'll see an OLineman taken before the 4th round.

JMO.

PP

[StingerNLG]

Imo, I think Troy Smith WAS a Breath of Fresh Air! I saw someone who looked 'comfortable' in the pocket (i.e. no 'happy' feet); sensed pressure; reacted instinctively; throws a 'nice' ball; and has a hell of a strong arm. Granted he made some mistakes; but, come on, this was his FIRST professional start against a playoff team. Yes, to me, Troy Smith demonstrated qualities that Steve McNair exhibited during most of last year.

6 points Joe. Six points, two should-have-been-picks, one fumble, one fumble exchange.

Six points.

Offense never ran a single play in the redzone.

Offense took almost an entire half to cross the 50 yard line.

That is some stenchy fresh air.

[StingerNLG]

Good lord.

I say that I would expect and 5th year QB (no matter what "system" he's been in) to perform a little better than 5th round rookie making his first start on the road vs playoff team and it turns into this.

Yes, it turns into this. Because you are making the same rediculous and unrealistic claim that the problem is the QB.

Most people who are looking at this from the big picture angle seem to be in total agreement. You seem to be somewhere else on this.



I get labled as someone who thinks Smith is the savior (when I've been clear that I don't think he should have made the team). And really, I don't need you insinuating that I can't see our offensive woes (i.e. smacked in the back of the head repeatedly). Spare me.

Except yes.....I do. Because you don't see it or understand it. And if the difference between 12 QB's playing in this system and the team not really going anywhere doesn't show you, then nothing will.

To you, let's just draft another QB. Sure, that's the answer. Just getting another QB seems to have worked all this time, hasn't it?

Why don't you spare me this time PP? In fact you can save that "Good Lord", and "Spare me" bullshit you roll out everytime someone doesn't lockstep agree with everything you say. I never claimed you said Smith was the savior.



I've never said a good QB is some magic bullet. But a good QB would damn sure help this team.

Some of you can act like that's a crazy thought.

No, you are wrong. The thought that we haven't had a good QB here is crazy.

But you will continue to believe that some Brady/Manning QB here would be the answer.

Sorry, but no part of the last 9 years would even begin to convince me that is true.



BTW, our offensive line is FAR from set for the future. Adam Terry seems to be a question mark now, and so is Chris Chester. And that doesn't even matter because no one knows if JO is really going to retire yet, and Mike Flynn seems to want to come back another year. This OL hasn't been "set" all year, and it's still in flux until the old men step off the field and let the young guys play. And it doesn't appear our "line of the future" is going to play this Sunday either, as they haven't the last few weeks.

[highwater]

I got news for ya. We've already got most of the OL for the future already on the team.

I agree. I think the attitude of the FO is probably "Hey, we've actually spent some high draft picks on offensive linemen, so now it's time to get them some experience and let them grow up." And if they do think that, they have a point -- they ignored the OL for several straight years, at least through the draft, but recently they have tried to address it. Now, whether or not these guys work out remains to be seen, but I would be very surprised if they drafted an OL guy on Day One.

Besides, we have needs at other positions too. And while the pass protection has been dismal this year, I'm not ready to say that it's because the players all suck. A lot of them are backups, they're inexperienced, and could get better. SHOULD get better.

And Merry Christmas, everyone.

[festivus]

No, you are wrong. The thought that we haven't had a good QB here is crazy.

I agree! We've *had* a good QB! Coincidentally (or not), it was the same year we had an effective passing attack, and won a playoff game!

It's no coincidence we had a decent passing attack with some quarterbacks (Grbac, for some time with McNair), and not with others.

I am a big fan of the men who have played QB here, with the exception of Jeff Blake, who was a jackass, but only a couple have been here with the right personnel set to be effective. Others have not had the tools to compensate for deficiencies on the OL, or in the receiving corps, or both. Or the deficiencies were so overwhelming *no* quarterback could have overcome them.

This is actually exactly why I don't blame Billick - at least, exclusively - for our offensive futility over the years. Because there *have* been times when we had a decent offense, when we had the tools in place. But that's a story for another thread.

[danzor123]

Smith goes 22/36 315 yds 3TD's 0 INT 6 carries 72 yds 1TD, Ravens win
31-14 everyone will be posting in the Troy Smith Hero thread! :187734:

[festivus]

Smith goes 22/36 315 yds 3TD's 0 INT 6 carries 72 yds 1TD, Ravens win
31-14 everyone will be posting in the Troy Smith Hero thread! :187734:

WTF indeed, Danzor.

Nobody is judging him besides you. We are being patient and grading on a performance by performance basis, hoping for the best all the time.

I hope your confidence in him is well placed.

[darb72]

Anybody else remember the Blake fan from the crayon forum? The one who became a Cardinals fan and shouted to the rooftops they would be in the Super Bowl after they signed him? Danzor reminds me a lot of that guy.

Not a fan of the team but of one player.

[crazyraven]

The system won a super bowl. I'm not about to throw the system under the bus when we have questionable talent at the qb over the course of Billick tenure here. Kyle Boller and Troy Smith right now these guys are so wet behind the ears its not even funny, we are a joke at QB, to deny this and blame the system, I feel, is ridiculous after coming off a 13-3 season with a QB who once was a league Co-MVP.

Mcnair was OK in my book last year and did what needed to be done, sure I was pissed after the that playoff game, but some of you need to stop pretending that last year didn't happen. The system was just fine last year up until the playoff game where everyone was crushed for weeks, heck some still haven't gotten over that game.


Is it all on the QB, heck no. The obvious has been stated over and over, there are certain things that still need to be fix. Even still we need a Qb our 2nd and 3rd string wont make anything happen if mcnair is out for a long period of time, and its unfortunate that we dont have depth at that position.

If this was game 2 of the year, you can bet your sweet ass that I would insist on Boller to start if Mcnair wasn't able to go, not Troy. But at this moment, Troy is what I want to see because this season is a mess. I still say he should have started against Miami, he moved the ball well when he was in. He did OK in Seattle as well, I didnt expect much, I hope you didn't. This has nothing to do with me not liking boller, its just getting to see Troy while we have the chance.

Its not gonna get any better for Troy considering that he will still be with out the services of Willis Mcgahee. At least the other two qbs had his services of a 1st string RB.

Darb is right when he says the FO has spent too many picks on one side of the ball. The defense was great for so many years and we always felt confident in them, well at least I did. The thing is the players that were on Offense had the tools to win if mistakes were kept to a minimum and our QB controlled the game establishing a running game early. I understand most don't like this approach but it IS what wins ball games. Billick has an impressive record with a 14 point lead, its something like 50-1. Is the system bad when this is the case?

I hope everyone is having a merry Christmas, I know I am. Christmas cheers to all the board members. :beer:

[festivus]

Crazy that is the best post you ever wrote.

Who are you, and what have you done with Crazy? ;)

[purplepoe]

Yes, it turns into this. Because you are making the same rediculous and unrealistic claim that the problem is the QB.

Most people who are looking at this from the big picture angle seem to be in total agreement. You seem to be somewhere else on this.




Except yes.....I do. Because you don't see it or understand it. And if the difference between 12 QB's playing in this system and the team not really going anywhere doesn't show you, then nothing will.

To you, let's just draft another QB. Sure, that's the answer. Just getting another QB seems to have worked all this time, hasn't it?

Why don't you spare me this time PP? In fact you can save that "Good Lord", and "Spare me" bullshit you roll out everytime someone doesn't lockstep agree with everything you say. I never claimed you said Smith was the savior.




No, you are wrong. The thought that we haven't had a good QB here is crazy.

But you will continue to believe that some Brady/Manning QB here would be the answer.

Sorry, but no part of the last 9 years would even begin to convince me that is true.



BTW, our offensive line is FAR from set for the future. Adam Terry seems to be a question mark now, and so is Chris Chester. And that doesn't even matter because no one knows if JO is really going to retire yet, and Mike Flynn seems to want to come back another year. This OL hasn't been "set" all year, and it's still in flux until the old men step off the field and let the young guys play. And it doesn't appear our "line of the future" is going to play this Sunday either, as they haven't the last few weeks.

Most people huh?

I could give a shit what "most" people think. If I went on what "most" people think from reading boards and listening to radio then Ray would've been gone 2 years ago, we'd have Baxter instead of McAlister, and Todd Heap should be traded or cut.

I don't care if you think it's an unrealistic claim that our QBs stink Stinger. I sat here for years while you defended Boller while it was "obvious to everyone" that he sucked. You pulled out every excuse and every reason why his own play wasn't his fault. HIS OWN PLAY.

And someone did claim that I thought Smith was the savior in this thread. I didn't say it was you. I pointed out that because I think a 5th year QB should outperform a 5th round rookie in his first start and it got you into a frenzy about our whole system. Throw systems out the window dude. A 5th year QB should outperform a 5th round rookie making his first start. AND I SAID BOLLER WOULD'VE. What gives dude? I think Boller would've performed better than Smith on Sunday. And if he did perform like Smith I'd criticize him more. Because he SHOULD be able to outplay Smith.

So yea, spare me. I don't need you spouting off how I can't see this and can't see that. I stated my opinion. I didn't say you need to be smacked in the back of the head repeatedly so that you agree with me.

Where did I say Brady or Manning is the answer Stinger? Show me.

I said I believe we need a better QB. I even stated that I know it's not a magic bullet. I've stated repeatedly that Ozzie has failed in providing solid offensive talent for this team. And QB is at the forefront of that IMO.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I don't care if everyone agrees with me.

As for your comment about the OL.

I was referring to Houston pleading with the FO to draft OL.

I don't think we'll see an OLineman drafted before the 4th. We've spent numerous picks in the 3rd round and higher over the last 3 years. So the line might not be "set" in the sense that we know who will be playing where next year, but it's set in the fact that most of the future starters are already on the team. IMO of course.

PP

[purplepoe]

6 points Joe. Six points, two should-have-been-picks, one fumble, one fumble exchange.

You do remember how you would lambaste someone for saying the same thing almost verbatim about Boller don't you?

How you couldn't believe a Raven fan would talk about could'ves and would'ves with regards to turnovers that actually didn't happen.

Surely you remember.

I do.

PP

[4G63]

Most people huh?

I could give a shit what "most" people think. If I went on what "most" people think from reading boards and listening to radio then Ray would've been gone 2 years ago, we'd have Baxter instead of McAlister, and Todd Heap should be traded or cut.

I don't care if you think it's an unrealistic claim that our QBs stink Stinger. I sat here for years while you defended Boller while it was "obvious to everyone" that he sucked. You pulled out every excuse and every reason why his own play wasn't his fault. HIS OWN PLAY.

And someone did claim that I thought Smith was the savior in this thread. I didn't say it was you. I pointed out that because I think a 5th year QB should outperform a 5th round rookie in his first start and it got you into a frenzy about our whole system. Throw systems out the window dude. A 5th year QB should outperform a 5th round rookie making his first start. AND I SAID BOLLER WOULD'VE. What gives dude? I think Boller would've performed better than Smith on Sunday. And if he did perform like Smith I'd criticize him more. Because he SHOULD be able to outplay Smith.

So yea, spare me. I don't need you spouting off how I can't see this and can't see that. I stated my opinion. I didn't say you need to be smacked in the back of the head repeatedly so that you agree with me.

Where did I say Brady or Manning is the answer Stinger? Show me.

I said I believe we need a better QB. I even stated that I know it's not a magic bullet. I've stated repeatedly that Ozzie has failed in providing solid offensive talent for this team. And QB is at the forefront of that IMO.

I agree Poe. I stated the same thing in the game thread to Stinger and he dry-jammed me for it!

Lets take the "system" out of it for a second and answer this for me Sting- Who do you think would do better in a road game, a 5th year, 1st round draft choice QB with the same team or a rookie 5th round draft choice making his first NFL start? (Oh, and you don't know WHO the QB's are)

Do you see PP's point now, Sting?

[festivus]

If he starts next week he'll be 0-2 and it will be totally unfair.

:watching:

I have not followed this thread closely. Without having read it all, I will say Darb is probably right, because he normally is, not because I read his post. :)

This quote from Stinger, though, struck a bit of a chord because the natural response is a movie quote:

"Deserve's got nothing to do with it."

With all our woes this year on both sides of the ball, the only quarterback who could really have helped would have been someone with the ability to make something out of nothing. A young Steve McNair, or a Brett Favre type. A tough, mobile, strong armed gunslinger. And there aren't many of those around.

Any other QB, particularly the 3 we have on our roster, is like those little circles of dough at Krispy Kreme, riding up and down the elevators in the oven. They are going into the fryer, and there's nothing they can do about it.

[highwater]

This quote from Stinger, though, struck a bit of a chord because the natural response is a movie quote:

"Deserve's got nothing to do with it."

Nicely done. But when I think about what our QBs have had to put up with this season, I think of another quote from an Eastwood movie:

"Dying ain't much of a living, boy."

Seriously, our pass protection has been getting our QBs clobbered. As I've said in other threads, the OL are young and hopefully will get better, but as it stands right now, being the Ravens QB is not a healthy job.

[festivus]

Yes but the right quarterback - we don't have this kind, but they do exist - might have had success this year anyway. After all:

"A man who will keep his head and not get rattled under fire, like as not, he'll kill ya."
Sticking with the same movie. Sheriff Little Bill, the Gene Hackman character, of course.

[highwater]

But when a QB is running for his life behind poor pass protection, whether it's because of the players or the scheme, it's like being in a gunfight without having a gun that works. In other words --

"Well, he should have armed himself!"

(I'm clearly starting to strectch now, but I'm having fun with the Eastwood quotes).

[festivus]

The only real stretch there was the exclamation mark. Because no Clint Eastwood quote should *ever* have an exclamation mark.

I bow to your superior quotography, sir. Enjoyed it very much.

[highwater]

The only real stretch there was the exclamation mark. Because no Clint Eastwood quote should *ever* have an exclamation mark.

That's a valid point, but my recollection of that particular line is that was delivered with some energy, at least by Clint's standards. It's all relative -- a line delivered with some energy by Clint would be considered a whisper by Stephen A. Smith standards. I was considering the context.

Well, that was a pleasant diversion -- exchanges of relevant Clint Eastwood movie quotes as it relates to the Ravens offense. Thanks for starting it, festivus! :thumbup:

[festivus]

Glad to help, Highwater.

It remains my life goal to keep this board from getting too heavy. :thumbup:

[Greg]

Smith goes 22/36 315 yds 3TD's 0 INT 6 carries 72 yds 1TD, Ravens win
31-14 everyone will be posting in the Troy Smith Hero thread!
Somebody got a new bong and a mess of good weed for Christmas.

We need better QB play. Finding a great QB is VERY hard, building a very good OL is easier, which is what the Clowns have done. Very good OLs will make everybody better. We need to start there. We have a lot of young guys so I don't know how many new players we need there or how much more seasoning and gelling we need, but we NEED that.

We should draft a QB next year and keep drafting one until we find a stud. We don't have one now, but at least Boller is competent when he has time, we can improve the time and improve our passing game immensely. I imagine Smith would look competent behind a very good OL as well.

But hey, if all else fails maybe we can schedule all of those teams Smith beat in college the guy with the man-crush keeps posting about.

[purplepoe]

But hey, if all else fails maybe we can schedule all of those teams Smith beat in college the guy with the man-crush keeps posting about.

Ha.

This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine.

People bringing up college games as basis for an argument for a player they like. Many QBs who beat great teams in college stink in the NFL and vice versa. Hell, take a look at Heisman winning QBs from the 90s until now. The majority of them didn't or haven't done squat in the NFL.

And let's be honest. On the biggest stage of them all, Mr. Smith looked lost and outclassed.

There are only a few exceptions to the rule.

Vince Young's 2 Rose Bowl wins come to mind.

PP

[Greg]

Smith didn't have a lot to work with and I can cut him slack there, the same people giving him a break don't give Boller one. That is my pet peeve. If you give Boller plenty of time he is capable. I want more than capable but frankly, only about 6-8 teams TOPS have more than capable.

Boller is still ranked around 17 this year even with our OL, a 3rd string TE and no real deep threat. His best weapons were Mason and DARLING!

Anyway, finding that Brady is elusive, even a high pick for a guy like Manning or Palmer can lead to a Leaf, Smith, Couch, etc. We should keep picking QBs who are rated NFL capable and tossing them against the wall until one sticks as a stud. Might have to go through another dozen. In the meantime, we need some pass blocking.

[purplepoe]

Smith didn't have a lot to work with and I can cut him slack there, the same people giving him a break don't give Boller one. That is my pet peeve. If you give Boller plenty of time he is capable. I want more than capable but frankly, only about 6-8 teams TOPS have more than capable.

Boller is still ranked around 17 this year even with our OL, a 3rd string TE and no real deep threat. His best weapons were Mason and DARLING!

Anyway, finding that Brady is elusive, even a high pick for a guy like Manning or Palmer can lead to a Leaf, Smith, Couch, etc. We should keep picking QBs who are rated NFL capable and tossing them against the wall until one sticks as a stud. Might have to go through another dozen. In the meantime, we need some pass blocking.

I'll only say this.

My point (for what seems like the 20th time) is that cutting a guy like Smith for his FIRST NFL start isn't exactly earth shattering. Do you think if Boller had started that we should expect him to play better than Smith? I do. And I think he would've. That's all. Nothing more. Im still dumbfounded how much flack that one statement created. It wasn't an indictment of either player really.

Again, Ozzie has gotten a free pass over and over for the lack of offensive weapons on this team. Whether it be QB, OL, or Receivers.

Im of the belief that we need better play from pretty much everyone. And IMO a new QB is at the forefront of that.

It's really amazing that having that opinion can garner so much angst on this board.

PP

[Mwjergs]

We need health. Injuries aren't an excuse it's the truth. Name any other NFL team that loses it's QB, LT, top reciever, top pass rusher, and top corner and still competes. -13 in the turnover diff. What more explanation do you need? Protect the ball, strip the ball. They were best at this in 06'.

QB. Smith showed some nice things last week. He showed one thing that Boller hasn't ever shown and that's pocket presence. He also matched that big arm that we all want in a QB. All things considered facing a D with 5 Pro Bowlers. The big question is what to do with McNair? Is he done and do you draft a QB in the first round? Making Kyle the vet out a young threesome smells of rebuilding. Maybe it's what we need?

OL. Ogden retires. Flynn retires. The line gets younger and more athletic. The one thing a line needs is consistency and time to gel. They haven't had any of that this season. They will be improved next year. Terry will be ok at LT but Ogden a HOF, so cut him some slack we've been spoiled.

Receivers. Mason was a very good possesion reciever. Clayton, Heap, and DWill were injury plagued. Clayton's performance was most disappointing. If healthy you have a good group. Even Darling showed some flashes and hell, Figurs is fast.

The D.
Ray will be back again. Ray had some excellent games this year and hasn't looked slowed by age at all. Ngata and Gregg have been pro bowl caliber, esp. the Big Samoan. Trouble on the edges - No Pryce and Suggs was way down. Bart Scott was in pass coverage most of the year. This all leads to no rush. No rush leads to no sacks. No sacks led to no turnovers. I last checked I think the D ended up with half of their totals from 2006.
Many are quick to blame the depleated secondary but, if you give any QB 6 seconds to scan the field, it's over.

Coaching. Billick. I'll give this guy one more season to clean up the mess. He's earned it from me. Just watch the new 2000 playoffs DVD and see why he's earned it. I've heard a lot of media types from the Ravens Uncensored to the Sun call for his head. This guy is responsible for helping make this team a contender in the NFL. His brashness and arrogance were needed to make the next step.
He's by no means been perfect. He's made some questionable calls and moves and he hasn't coached his best this year. But, he's earned one last shot to right the ship and if he can't let him go.
Rex Ryan. I want the fat Rex, not the slim, "I want to be a head coach" Rex. He's one guy that has seemingly escaped everyone's wrath. Exotic blitzes. Ngata in the secondary. How ruthlessly absurd. Just line up and let them have at it. Don't pull a LaRussa and outhink yourself. Also, Rex nice move pulling Gaston last week. Pick on the rook. If his safety help were there like it should have been it would have been a non-issue. But, we can't sit Reed or any other defender that underachieved, so I'm sending a message. It's an empty one. Fix the D for next season.

Beating the Steelers would help make things a little happier. You never know.

[Greg]

Do you think if Boller had started that we should expect him to play better than Smith?
Absolutely.


He showed one thing that Boller hasn't ever shown and that's pocket presence.
Oh bullcrap, first he got the ball knocked loose and lost a fumble while in the pocket, which isn't displaying some mystical pocket presence. Second, Boller at times has shown it and at others not, just like Smith.

Unless McNair's arm magically gains zip there is little to no benefit to bringing him back next year. We can make that decision in training camp. We MUST DRAFT ANOTHER QB. If McNair shows some arm we can keep him and trade Boller for something (he is worth something, Atlanta probably would have given a mid rounder for him this pre-season after the Vick thing went down). If McNair has no arm left he is not better than Boller and only marginally better than Smith based solely on experience.


Receivers. Mason was a very good possesion reciever. Clayton, Heap, and DWill were injury plagued. Clayton's performance was most disappointing. If healthy you have a good group. Even Darling showed some flashes and hell, Figurs is fast.
Two things will make our QBs better right off the bat, more time and a real threat down the field like a Moss, Owens or even Braylon "cement hands" Edwards. He drops more than he should but he is a legitimate deep threat on each and every down as opposed to D Williams who is a third guy. Darling is a 5th WR, maybe 4. He shouldn't be counted on for anything. If Sams comes back Figurs is gone.

[ravenjoe]

Beating the Steelers would "make my day", and, year, as far as that goes!

[crazyraven]

Oh bullcrap, first he got the ball knocked loose and lost a fumble while in the pocket, which isn't displaying some mystical pocket presence. Second, Boller at times has shown it and at others not, just like Smith.
God damn greg, why dont you give Smith some slack. He aint nothing but a 5th round pick, 3rd string qb. Comparing him to boo-ller is almost impossible because there is hardly any game data. Sorry but The guy had one turnover, thats not the end of the world at this point in his career. I like what I saw considering the score and circumstance.

Those who are not grading him sure are being tough on him, keep in mind that thats all in the name of being fair to Troy. Thats bullcrap. Some of you are steamrolling over this guy after one game, and its all to protect the good name of Kyle Boo-ller. And the thing is nobody really cares if he starts or not at this point.

Some of you guys do this with every qb not named Boo-ller. Mcnair was fine last year. Even when we were winning some of you were yearning for Kyle. Why? Nobody knows. The guy hasnt won a road game in YEARS. Where are the people who say Boo-ller is a top 5 back up now? I'll grant you that he may be a good start against a team like the Jets at home but after that I'm scared to death of whats going to happen. YOU ARE TOO.

THIS YEAR MCNAIR WAS INJURED FROM THE GET GO. We had success with him last year. The system was fine last year when you were waving those white raven towels in playoff game last season. If he is able to go, we use him Period.

This season sucks because we have two incompetent QBs, the thing is one of them only started one game. Yea sure there are injuries to alot of positions but the focus is always squarely on the QB, Thats just the way it goes. Not even Kyle boo-ller would make excuses yet most on this board invent ways to protect him.

Let the kid play for godsakes.

[Greg]

. . . why dont you give Smith some slack. He aint nothing but a 5th round pick, 3rd string qb.
And I wasn't picking on him, I was pointing out that he didn't perform in some magical fashion beyond what the rest of the guys coming through here have done.


Comparing him to boo-ller is almost impossible because there is hardly any game data.
Granted, BUT I WAS RESPONDING TO A COMPARISON.

I am not trying to protect Boller, the deal is we need three things to improve our offense and one of them is better QB play. We can get that with any of the guys we have with better pass protection and a real deep threat. I also support drafting a QB and bringing McNair back next training camp and seeing what we have.

If McNair gets his arm back, and I doubt it but who knows, he is worth keeping. If not, Boller is our next best option to win games with Smith backing him up. We at least have found out Smith can competently play the position at this point, so we aren't desperate for competent QBing at either the starting or backup position. We need to draft a guy, and as I posted above, KEEP DRAFTING QBs until we finally get our stud QB. I have posted this since 2000. We should keep drafting QBs where we think there is value, whether that be in round 1, 3 or 6, until we finally hit pay dirt in a big way.

Oh, and who knows, maybe Smith blows up and becomes that guy, but as a team the Ravens should not count on that. Until somebody PROVES they are THE MAN we should draft QB every single year.

[4G63]

I am not trying to protect Boller, the deal is we need three things to improve our offense and one of them is better QB play. We can get that with any of the guys we have with better pass protection and a real deep threat. I also support drafting a QB and bringing McNair back next training camp and seeing what we have.

If McNair gets his arm back, and I doubt it but who knows, he is worth keeping. If not, Boller is our next best option to win games with Smith backing him up. We at least have found out Smith can competently play the position at this point, so we aren't desperate for competent QBing at either the starting or backup position. We need to draft a guy, and as I posted above, KEEP DRAFTING QBs until we finally get our stud QB. I have posted this since 2000. We should keep drafting QBs where we think there is value, whether that be in round 1, 3 or 6, until we finally hit pay dirt in a big way.

Oh, and who knows, maybe Smith blows up and becomes that guy, but as a team the Ravens should not count on that. Until somebody PROVES they are THE MAN we should draft QB every single year.

Good post Greg! I usually don't agree with anything you type but what you said really makes sense in the long run, as long as there isn't a better option in the 4th, 5th, or 6th round. You never know when you might get the next Tom Brady in the 5th or 6th round......

[crazyraven]

If McNair gets his arm back, and I doubt it but who knows, he is worth keeping. If not, Boller is our next best option to win games with Smith backing him up.
If Mcnair is back and injury free, I suspect Boller is a goner. I really cant see this continuing for Kyle, the organization, and the fans. Its just not working out. If we know the situation of Mcnair in March, Hopefully the ravens will make an informed decision and bring in a prove FA QB who can learn the system and come in ASAP to help. If the FO waits till june we will be in the same situation as we are in every year and have to rely on Kyle if things go south. We've been there and done that, and its been a rocky road to say the least.


Good post Greg! I usually don't agree with anything you type but what you said really makes sense in the long run, as long as there isn't a better option in the 4th, 5th, or 6th round. You never know when you might get the next Tom Brady in the 5th or 6th round......

I'm curious, With this type of thinking, why are you so quick to find someone else. The ravens just picked up troy in the 5th round, have you dismissed him before he even gets a chance? Do you not think he will pan out? If a qb is picked up in next years draft and gets he gets a shot at another playoff bound team (like the hawks) and has a horrible outing are you going back to the drawing board again? It doesn't make sense.

[Greg]

We should keep picking QBs until we hit gold. McNair or Boller won't be here next year and there isn't some answer out in FA that is going to be any better considering what we have to work with.

McNair/Boller, Smith and a draftee should be how we go into 2008.

And if somebody doesn't grab the position by the balls you get rid of McNair/Boller (whoever it is you had in 2008) or Smith, keep your 2008 draftee and go get another pick in 2009.

You can't just wait and see on Smith without having somebody else in the pipeline behind him. If Smith bombs then what? Another aging vet?

[4G63]

I'm curious, With this type of thinking, why are you so quick to find someone else. The ravens just picked up troy in the 5th round, have you dismissed him before he even gets a chance? Do you not think he will pan out? If a qb is picked up in next years draft and gets he gets a shot at another playoff bound team (like the hawks) and has a horrible outing are you going back to the drawing board again? It doesn't make sense.

No, I haven't given up on Troy, I was just agreeing with Greg that we should get a QB every draft as long as there aren't better players available that would fill a need.......

I honestly would like to see a 3 way QB contest in the preseason as long as we don't pick a QB in the first. If we pick one in the first, I foresee McNair being gone next year.....

I'm rooting for Troy to play well, I just wish McGahee was in the backfield for him!!

[ravenjoe]

Smith possesses the 'pocket presence' that I have NEVER seen in Boller, and that's not a knock on Boller. Smith is much more relaxed in the pocket, and seems to possess 'true' leadership skills out there. You take Boller, Greg, and I'll take Smith, and we'll see which team benefits in the long run! Of course, if both play behind this pathetic line, neither will end up in the red.

[Rayvens52]

And I wasn't picking on him, I was pointing out that he didn't perform in some magical fashion beyond what the rest of the guys coming through here have done.


Granted, BUT I WAS RESPONDING TO A COMPARISON.

I am not trying to protect Boller, the deal is we need three things to improve our offense and one of them is better QB play. We can get that with any of the guys we have with better pass protection and a real deep threat. I also support drafting a QB and bringing McNair back next training camp and seeing what we have.

If McNair gets his arm back, and I doubt it but who knows, he is worth keeping. If not, Boller is our next best option to win games with Smith backing him up. We at least have found out Smith can competently play the position at this point, so we aren't desperate for competent QBing at either the starting or backup position. We need to draft a guy, and as I posted above, KEEP DRAFTING QBs until we finally get our stud QB. I have posted this since 2000. We should keep drafting QBs where we think there is value, whether that be in round 1, 3 or 6, until we finally hit pay dirt in a big way.

Oh, and who knows, maybe Smith blows up and becomes that guy, but as a team the Ravens should not count on that. Until somebody PROVES they are THE MAN we should draft QB every single year.


A couple of weeks ago I would have agreed with you, but it is very clear this is all because of the OL. They have played like shit all year, and you could give me brady and peyton and we would still be 4-11 right now. I don't know if Troy is the future yet, i hope so, but i def can not se he is not when he has to line up behind the shitty line. If we do not pick up a couple of OL in the draft and FA it does not matter who is back there we will have another real bad year IMO.

[xmradiodave]

I thought that his 1st NFL start was decent. Rookie mistakes were made, his accuracy was off, but he stuck in there and showed excellent leadership. With more starts, he would have time to overcome those mistakes (hopefully). Now, granted the O-Line continues to be a bane, he still showed impressive awareness. Now.. he needs to learn how to protect the ball when the protection breaks down. That is just something that every football player learns beginning in Pop Warner football.

I give the guy a C for his first performance.

[Greg]

Smith possesses the 'pocket presence' that I have NEVER seen in Boller, . . .
See, I think this is a bit of fantasy. He has played about 5-6 quarters, let's see after at least that many games. As for Boller, he showed incredible pocket presence against New England so please don't tell me you have NEVER seen it from Boller.

[crazyraven]

See, I think this is a bit of fantasy. He has played about 5-6 quarters, let's see after at least that many games. As for Boller, he showed incredible pocket presence against New England so please don't tell me you have NEVER seen it from Boller.
I watch that game last night on NFL network, It was the first time I watched it on TV, I got that sick feeling out of my stomach, thank you NFLN for replaying it so soon--now i got it back.

...anyway I have to admit Kyle did look good in the pocket in that game for a few quarters. The thing is he really blew that game for us. Aside from his biggest blunder, the INT--which I still cant forgive. The guy couldnt get a first down when we needed one and he had two series to get one. I'm not asking anyone to answer this question but Was boller the only one in the staduim that didnt know what was at stake? my point is that was probably the most meaningful game he ever played in and he blew it, for himself, his coaches and his fans. YES YES YES, the defense melted but if boller and the offense make these first downs at the end of the game this game is in the books for the ravens.

And its even funnier (actually sad) to hear the annoucners scream the same sentiment. One line was something like Boller is "reverting back to his old self".


Thing is, it took a big game for Boller to show up, Troy was playing in a crappy game and showed some big heart in the pocket. Most are saying they were comfortable with his pocket presense because thats how they feel and what they saw, it not a fantasy if many people feel the same way.

[Greg]

The guy couldnt get a first down when we needed one and he had two series to get one.
Did you also note the holding on the pass to Sypniewski? He threw a nice pass that would have gotten us a first down on one of those series but Sypniewski was held as he came out of his break and the ball was thrown.

[crazyraven]

I will go back and check. I did TiVo it. even so there was one play were we need 2 yards and he threw for 1. Its just typical.

Thing is, With all that pocket presence and protection Boller still made the biggest blunder of his life by throwing that football in to a sea of white uniforms. That play literally lost us the game. It sucked the air right out of the staduim. Some can debate it but for the most part that play took us out of the game. The ball was no where near our receiver and the kicker is he was wide open. Sorry but someone with pocket presensce makes that play.

Had he won that game he'd have a free pass into next season...

[StingerNLG]

IIRC our 30 million dollar running back couldn't get us a first down when we needed it either.

Or was that Boller's fault too?

Sigh. Is the season over with yet?

[crazyraven]

*Sigh* - *Hiccup *

IIRC we were talking about pocket presence not the running game. There goes stingy playing the blame game--AGAIN. we are so tired of it Stingy. The running game was kind of strong that night, actually it has been the biggest part of the offense for as long as I been a fan of this team. Cant say the same about Boller and his watch as Ravens QB, but I'm sure you think he has been :eyes:

*Sigh* - *Fart* and a big *Burp*

[Greg]

I will go back and check. I did TiVo it. even so there was one play were we need 2 yards and he threw for 1.
Then you need to bitch about the receiver, there is no way a QB can take time to look at the sticks to make sure a receiver has gotten the last yard he needs. That is the receiver's responsibility and blaming Boller shows a bias in ability to judge.

[crazyraven]

I just watched it greg, Boller took something off the ball and it hung up in the air. In other words, no zip was on the ball by the time he caught the ball he had two defenders all over him. Also he should have thrown it to the outside, since he threw it to the inside willlis had to do a 360 to catchup to the ball. its a first down if the ball is placed properly. But ok lets blame Willis, im with you on that.:eyes:

[ravenjoe]

As for Boller, he showed incredible pocket presence against New England so please don't tell me you have NEVER seen it from Boller.
I have seen Kyle, on rare occasions, survey the field and pass to the open receiver. More often than not, though, I watch him have 'tunnel vision', and get locked in on one receiver. It has been five years now that he has been doing this, and that is simply Not acceptable!

[HoustonRaven]

I have seen Kyle, on rare occasions, survey the field and pass to the open receiver. More often than not, though, I watch him have 'tunnel vision', and get locked in on one receiver. It has been five years now that he has been doing this, and that is simply Not acceptable!

Agreed.

Im bored with some who pick out one game out of every 10 where Boller has displayed some sort of level of play above mediocrity and that's "proof" he's a great QB.

Boller has NEVER had consistency. Boller has NEVER been mobile. Yes, he has played great against the Pats and last few seasons against teams like Seattle, Packers and Vikings. But that's the whole problem right there -- NO CONSISTENCY!

[Dade]

Thought this thread was about Troy.

[highwater]

Thought this thread was about Troy.

That's how it started, but surprisingly, the conversation somehow turned to Boller. Imagine that.

[ladyraven127]

Chris Redman is our future :D