I've Hit The Proverbial Wall

[ravenjoe]

I don't know about the rest of RavenNation, but I simply CAN NOT TAKE IT ANY MORE! I can't watch this s--t anymore; it makes me sick! I've been watching football for longer than I can remember, and this is the most pathetic team I've ever followed, and that includes the Colts of the early 80s, with Bullet Bob Irsay at the helm. To think we pay good money to watch this group makes my head spin! Penalties, turnovers, the worst O-line play I've ever witnessed makes me long for the end of the season, now! Next week I have to go and do battle with those Pittsburgh fans who think M&T is their home away from home. Regardless of our teams pathetic performance, I refuse to let them get in my face; thus, I have that to look forward to next week. Playoffs and bowl games can't come soon enough for me! Btw, I'm Excluding the following from this tirade - Derrick Mason (he can play on my team anyday!); Ray Lewis (we see what his presence and leadership means to this team); Willis McGahee (Jamal would not be doing what he is currently doing with the Browns behind this pathetic O-line of ours); Kelly Gregg and Ngata; and, of course, Ed Reed.

[WxKevin]

I am glad you got that out of your system. Now it is time to calm down and jump back on the Ravens Love Wagon.

[crazyraven]

Excellent melt. Thank you and merry Christmas :laugh:

[JonG316]

Sell me your PSLs if you have them, since you know....you don't like this team anymore.

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

I don't know about the rest of RavenNation, but I simply CAN NOT TAKE IT ANY MORE! I can't watch this s--t anymore; it makes me sick! I've been watching football for longer than I can remember, and this is the most pathetic team I've ever followed, and that includes the Colts of the early 80s, with Bullet Bob Irsay at the helm. To think we pay good money to watch this group makes my head spin! Penalties, turnovers, the worst O-line play I've ever witnessed makes me long for the end of the season, now! Next week I have to go and do battle with those Pittsburgh fans who think M&T is their home away from home. Regardless of our teams pathetic performance, I refuse to let them get in my face; thus, I have that to look forward to next week. Playoffs and bowl games can't come soon enough for me! Btw, I'm Excluding the following from this tirade - Derrick Mason (he can play on my team anyday!); Ray Lewis (we see what his presence and leadership means to this team); Willis McGahee (Jamal would not be doing what he is currently doing with the Browns behind this pathetic O-line of ours); Kelly Gregg and Ngata; and, of course, Ed Reed.


Did really expect us to win yesterday? After the injuries in the beginning of the year, I thought we would bad.....Really bad:bag:

[ravenjoe]

I have no intention of selling my PSLs - I am, and have been at every home game, including the Rain soaked embarrassment at the hands of the Dolts. I fully expected us to lose yesterday; but I would like to see some improvement week-to-week. After all, this team is supposedly playing their hearts out out there. At least make it somewhat enjoyable; maybe you can sit and watch this s--t, but it pains me to sit through this embarrassment week-to-week. Btw, the 'skins have been racked with injuries this year. They also have some QB who has not started in 10 years leading them into the playoffs, and (possibly) beyond - they are my 'dark horse' this year! Why have they Not folded like a cheap suit, ala the Ravens?! So, we'll get to watch both the 'skins and the steelers in the playoffs this year; maybe I'll just watch my DVD from the 2000 year, and try and rewind my clock back to the time when the Ravens fielded a respectable team!

[camdenyard]

Some people need to understand that you can't win every year.

Injuries have killed this team. Youth and the lack of continuity have killed whatever potential the offense had.

Turnovers (best to worst plus/minus margin in one year) have killed this team.

When McNair all of a sudden didn't have it, that killed this team.

In short, it's been a perfect storm of sh*t that has killed this team in 2007. You accept it, say "well, it's just not our year", and move on.

This team is not far away from the playoffs. Get key guys healthy, plug a few holes, let the OL mature, get a new OC/offense and a decent (not great) QB and we are right back in the mix.

[ravenjoe]

Get key guys healthy, plug a few holes, let the OL mature, get a new OC/offense and a decent (not great) QB and we are right back in the mix.
Troy Smith will do just fine!

[RAVENOUS52]

Dudes, I continue to travel to games (on a military paycheck, no less!) to see this team, ummm "play" simply because I love them and I know they won't be this bad forever!

How soon we forget how the Mayflower moving trucks took our team from us and we had NOTHING to do each season...Even a down year is preferable to that HELL!

[ravenjoe]

How soon we forget how the Mayflower moving trucks took our team from us and we had NOTHING to do each season...Even a down year is preferable to that HELL!

I was at the last Colts game ever played at Memorial stadium. I have not forgotten; but I will not stay silent regarding the pathetic state of this year's Ravens. Btw, I will be at the Pittsburgh game, and I will support my team, and I will NOT tolerate any Pittsburgh loudmouth denegrating My team!

[Beerracuda]

This has certainly been the most painful year to watch a Ravens' team. After the 2000 season, all of us had high hopes for the team for the 2001 season, only to see it get wiped out in preseason when Jamal went down for the year. 2002 was a rebuilding year, so expectations were low. I thought it couldn't get worse than it did in 2005. 2006 was a strange season. Yes, we went 13-3, but we had quite a few games where the breaks went our way, and we stayed healthy throughout the season. I think 9-7 or 10-6 is a more realistic gauge on the 2006 season, cuz there were at least 3 games we should've lost.

Of course, after a 13-3 season, we all had high hopes for this season. The way we played in the preseason this year was exactly how we played during the regular season. And of course, that first game with Cincy to start the season showed us what kind of year this was going to be. Everything that could go wrong, went wrong. This whole year has been that way - everything that could go wrong went wrong.

The good part about a season like this: It shows you where you really need help, unlike previous seasons when one part of the team could compensate for the shortcomings of the other parts. We know we need to improve the OL, and we know we need to get depth in our secondary. I didn't realize just how thin we were on defense until our starters went out with injuries. If we can improve in those two areas in the offseason, along with getting a real OC in here with a totally different offensive system, then we just might be competitive sooner than you think.

Well, I'm trying to be optimistic anyway, but I certainly feel your pain, Ravenjoe!

EDIT: Oh and by the way, remind those Squealer scumbags of their record last year, and the drummings they received from the Ravens. Prove to them how quickly things can change.

[WxKevin]

Btw, the 'skins have been racked with injuries this year. They also have some QB who has not started in 10 years leading them into the playoffs, and (possibly) beyond - they are my 'dark horse' this year!

It is not the number of injuries this year, it is WHO has been injured. We could fill out half a Probowl roster with our injuries.

Everyone knows, especially me, that injuries are part of the game and not an excuse. I am not using it as an excuse, just as reality. How many other teams would survive with their 2 starting CBs out for most of the season? Not many.

[The Fanatic]

This year is what it is unfortunately.
Wouldn't be the first time a good team from one year went into the tank the next, and more then most likely won't be the last.

Of higher concern to me is our ability or lack there of to recover and field a better more competitive product next year.

Way too much work to be done here in the off season for me to be able to take a positive outlook at this point for next year.
If it was just a hole or two it wouldn't be that bad, but we got some real question marks heading into the off-season and too many of them to boot.

[Greg]

I disagree.

Let's look at what we do have when healthy.
1 shutdown CB, that is 1 more than most teams have
A good RB
A good TE, when healthy
The best safety in the game
The best MLB (after seeing this team with and without him who can doubt?)
A very good run-stuffing DL
A young and talented if yet to gel OL (I think they are better than we have seen)
Some very good possession WRs.

We need better QB play, whether we can get that from the guys we have with a better OL is unknown but when Boller has time he looks a whole lot better. I am sure Smith would as well.

We need CB depth. Our S depth seems good but we are WOEFULLY short at CB.

We need a homerun hitting WR. This is the biggest need we have on offense, one guy who just scares the living crap out of the opposing DBs. This will allow Mason and Clayton to work the under and mid-range stuff, open Heap up and allow Williams to get some more one-on-one shots downfield. This has been a much ignored hole on this team for a long time.

We need some LB depth in the middle.

Finally, we need a pass rushing DE like Pryce, doesn't have to be as good as Pryce but a big guy who can play DL and still get to the QB regularly.

Some of these pieces will be available reasonably in FA if we shop wisely, like we did in getting Pryce.

In the draft we need to get that burner WR, a QB, some CB depth and some ILB depth. Hopefully the first day sets up for us to get the WR and QB in the first 2 rounds.

[plesiosaur]

Something happened to McNair befor the sucky Colts playoff game last year. He started looking stale and just kept it up when he was playing this seaon.

[HoustonRaven]

If I hear someone bring up "at least we have a team" or "just remember the Mayflower trucks" in response to people venting I seriouisly may go kick the neighbors cat square in the face.

So we lost a team in a crappy manner and because of such we cant vent about a bad season? Or we've had a bad season but have to keep our traps shuts and be thankful we have a team?

Im glad none of you who say that are going to have interaction with my kids when I have some. By your logic, I wont be able to have an opinion when when my kid is messing up in school -- I'll just be happy to have a kid, high expectations be damned and if I bitch to much, a big green moving truck will take the tyke away!

Yeah, that's pretty solid logic.

[The Fanatic]

I knew you would disagree Greg. Hehehehe

You're awful optimistic about what you have seen, I'll give you that.

Both McCallister and Rolle are getting a little long in the tooth right now.

Mccallister probably still has a couple years in the tank left, but Rolle I'm not too sure about.
The Rolle question will be answered soon I'd imagine.

Watching this defense without Ray Lewis should scare the crap out of everyone.

They look completely different without him regardless of how many steps he may or may not have lost.

At some point we need to find somebody to step in and take his place.

Doesn't have to be now, but it ain't something you want to put off too far.

Ogden is probably done, and so is Flynn.

There is nothing about these young guys showing me any promise that they'll be able to step up and improve to the level they need to be to keep our QB upright and comfortable to play.

Terry has showed some signs but he hasn't been playing.
Yanda IMO is not big enough to play RT and stop the elite pass rushers that most teams seem to be bringing in or already have.

Chris Chester hasn't really shown much in his limited time in and both Brown and Grubbs I'd rate as adequate.
They certainly aren't in the class of a Hutchinson or Faneca type.

To me, you at least have to have one or two elite types on your offensive line to help hide the deficiences(sp?) of the less talented ones up there with them.

(Kind of like Pittsburgh did with Kedrick Vincent.)

We have nobody of that stature on that line.

Trevor Pryce is also getting long in the tooth, so I agree we need another true pass rushing DE at minimum for depth if not to start.

Our receivers and QB play pretty much speak for themselves.

Neither is really any good.

Possesion type receivers at best with Williams being the only real deep threat with some size and speed.


Suppose we draft a QB in round 1 or 2 as you suggest we should/might?

That dude is a project at best that won't see the field until 2009 at the earliest unless he has to step in dude to injury like we saw yesterday.

We don't have a 3rd round pick unless we get one as a compensation pick which I doubt.

We don't exactly have a great track record with getting starting type players in the mid to later rounds.

Our current cap situation doesn't permit us to hit the free agent market with a bang to grab somebody like an Asante Samual or somebody of that ilk that can step in immediately and fill a role we need or very well might need next season.

As we've all seen, our depth in most areas has alot to be desired.

That's an awful lot of holes to fill IMO in one off season my friend, with a limited cap situation and a bargain shopping GM.

Hell, even when we draft offensive lineman we have to groom them and develop them for 2-3 years before they're deemed ready to play.

That right there is our biggest problem IMO.

The game begins and ends with the line play, and we tend to either ignore the offensive line or try and get by with marginal talent.

Been that way for years and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

With that type of phylosiphy, a run down QB like Mcnair, a rookie like Smith or a draftee or a shattered dude like Boiller will still stand no chance.

Certainly we have some good players in various places, but definitely not enough to have this one off season cure enough problems to get us where we need to be to at least compete with the big boys much less over take them.

I don't know, but we'll see soon enough.

[highwater]

If I hear someone bring up "at least we have a team" or "just remember the Mayflower trucks" in response to people venting I seriouisly may go kick the neighbors cat square in the face.

Well, there's nothing wrong with that -- kicking your neighbor's cat square in the face, that is.

As far as the venting goes, I am also not a fan of the "at least we have a team so don't complain" school of thought. Venting is not necessarily unhealthy, depending on what you're complaining about. I am very weary of the personal attacks on Billick and Boller, but there is nothing wrong with a dedicated fan questioning playcalling or draft selections. That's part of sports. As long as they aren't not petty, personal cheap shots, it should be fair game.

[festivus]

The Fanatic and Greg are both right. We have some strengths going into the years to come but I am inclined to agree with The Fanatic, who wins on all close calls anyway because of the photo, because a lot of the mess we've seen this year *is* our youth, and I am not so optimistic as others that they have championship-level talent.

:2c:

[UKRavenStockers]

Just on the offensive line it needs to be pointed out that every single fanbase around the league overrates their skill position players (OK, we can't do that, we know half of them suck) and underrate their offensive line, and we are just the same with respect to our guys.

On the offensive line, we have the talent there, it just needs time to gel and I think it needs a veteran presence too, if we lose Ogden and Flynn then our most experienced lineman will be Jason Brown, who has about 25 NFL starts (I think) after this season, that to me isn't enough to be the veteran leader of the line. That said, let's break the line down position by position:

LT - Ogden is pretty much done and I think that right now he's not a great deal better if any than Terry. Ogden's got not much leg drive left and he can't drop his hips and respond to inside moves, he's really really struggling out there and I think that quite frankly he should have retired before this season. Terry is adequate and means we shouldn't need to bring in a part time vet in, though it probably would be the spot to bring a vet in at if possible for the short term. Then for the long term, we have the high ceiling rookie with Gaither. I'm a Terps fan and if Gaither can re-find his form from his freshman season, we've got another gem. His freshman season at UMD he was the best tackle in all of college football (with guys like D'Brickashaw Ferguson in their senior seasons), he didn't yield a sack, pressure or hit in his final 8 games to guys like Daryl Tapp who are now good starters in the NFL. That's the sort of talent we've got that will hopefully develop in the NFL (I'm confident and hopeful that he will develop).

LG - Jason Brown, well folks up top said he was not on the level of Hutchinson (he's not) and Faneca, well probably not (though Faneca isn't close to the force he was and I'd rather have Brown now) but he is on the level below and he is a very good starter when compared to guys across the league. He's a very good run blocker, with good drive and he's got good technique and athleticism in pass pro. He also has that nasty streak playing to the whistle and a bit beyond. On a good team last year he was getting plaudits from guys at SI.com (forget who it was, I think it was Prisco) for being an outside shot at an all pro at guard, this year on a bad team he won't get those same plaudits but he should. I don't have a full analysis of every game this year from us, but when I do, I'm confident that he will consistently grade out as our best offensive lineman and one of the better guards throughout the league.

C - Flynn hasn't been heckled anywhere near as much this year and that's warranted because he is solid, nothing more, nothing less, he's solid. We need someone to come through and depose him, but there's clearly something with Chris Chester's development that is keeping him from taking over here. Perhaps it well could be the fact that if we depose Flynn, we have no veteran presence on the line, I don't know, but there must be a decent reason.

RG - Grubbs - He's looked like a rookie, any time I've paid close attention to him this year I've seen him make some really good blocks and then make some fundamental errors, it's what you have to accept with playing rookies. Give him time and he should develop, with playing next to Flynn and Yanda for a few weeks now we should be seeing some improvement.

RT - Yanda - Considering he's a rookie, undersized and stepping out to tackle having played guard in college, he's had the struggles I'd have expected. This IMO isn't the year to judge him on, next year is. Give him next year to show whether this year is proving that he is only a guard in the NFL, or whether this year was a learning experience and he does have the capabilities to take what he's learning this year and develop into a viable NFL starter at RT.


The o-line to me is simply a case of gelling, we've got some nice talent there, it just needs some direction and some time. What I think we have to do this off-season if we lose Ogden is:

- Get a new line coach, nothing would please me more, I was never a fan of hiring Foerster in the first place and nothing I've seen from the O-line has filled me with confidence that he's the right guy for the job now. We need a better line coach here IMO.

- Get a veteran presence in at LT or RT. If Flynn stays then we need another vet presence on the line somewhere. Someone who can come in and just be a stable presence for the younger, talented guys to take some stability and leadership from.


Get stability on the line and I think the rest of the offence can follow, we saw that last year as proof positive. What I think we need more than anything on offence is a big bodied receiver. By this I don't mean another lanky Clarence Moore prospect, I mean a big receiver, 6'4 220 sort of range, he's doesn't have to be speedy but we need someone to compliment Heap on short passing situations. Without Heap we've had no-one who can fight for quick slant patterns. Mason will always punch above his weight and fight for balls he has no business getting to, but we need someone who has that size advantage for quick passes, that's something we've dearly missed this year with Heap out IMO.