View Full Version : TLT vs Moore...who's the #5 WR?
RavenScallywag
08-21-2006, 02:49 PM
Ok, please be honest and objective...
I don't get much of a chance to watch the pre-season games or practices, I just go by what I read...
Our top 3 spots are locked up, with Mason, Clayton, and Williams. Based on his performance so far, DVD is #4.
So, assuming we only carry 5, what's going to happen? Based on the camp reports and game performances, we're looking at a battle between Moore and Travis LaTenderesse.
Moore gives us some obvious physical tools, in that he's 6'6" and sometimes has great hands. But he's had major problems hanging onto the ball, and he's been hurt.
TLT has far outperformed his undrafted counterparts. I can't say I've seen or heard him making big catches, but he's definitley giving it his all out there.
So who do you think should make the team? Or will Moore be PUP/IR'd and TLT will get his shot until Moore gets back?
Ravenatic20
08-21-2006, 02:55 PM
At the very least, I think TLT gets onto the practice squad. However, I don't see him making the final 53, unless we carry 6 WR's, which is unlikely. TLT has done some good things in camp, but he's still unproven.
Moore on the other hand is a proven WR. We know what he did vs the NY teams his rookie year. Yes, he did not look good last year, in the few chances he had. But that does not take away what he's capable of.
This is how I see the depth at WR:
Mason
Clayton
Williams
Darling
Moore
Moore on the other hand is a proven WR. We know what he did vs the NY teams his rookie year. Yes, he did not look good last year, in the few chances he had. But that does not take away what he's capable of.
If Moore doesn't prove to me he can catch a ball over the middle before the pre-season is over I think he should be gone.
Raineman
08-21-2006, 03:00 PM
I'd say TLT. I liked what I saw from him at camp. Even though he is not a very big guy, I saw quick and fearless over the middle. That was good enough for me given the choice of either him or Moore.
I am done with the Clarence Moore experiment.
No Moore Clarence! Do we have clearance Clarence?
Losac
08-21-2006, 03:06 PM
I am done with the Clarence Moore experiment.
I second that. Stubborn Billick seems to have a never-ending fascination with him because of his height.
highwater
08-21-2006, 03:17 PM
Moore on the other hand is a proven WR.
:laugh:
Ravenatic20
08-21-2006, 03:21 PM
I'm not saying I like Moore, it's just I don't see this un-drafted rookie beating him out. Yeah, I want Moore out of here, but we don't exactly have anyone to replace him.
BaltimoreRon
08-21-2006, 03:27 PM
Moore doesn't play on special teams. If you see TLT playing special teams (I have to admit I have not specifically looked for him), this might spell the end for #84.
I'll make an effort to look for him next game.
DrUnk
08-21-2006, 03:27 PM
I like TLT, he's kind of like Stokely. I also agree with the Billick part. IF, we used him only in the end zone, and threw the ball 10 feet in the air (like the only catches he has made), then I would say great. Billick, however, has a hard on for making him into a regular receiver, and you know he will never admit to being wrong.:grbac:
crazyraven
08-21-2006, 03:28 PM
If Moore doesn't prove to me he can catch a ball over the middle before the pre-season is over I think he should be gone.
Exactly.
In the past He has dropped too many balls that could have helped this team.
TLT should get that last spot as long things stay the same
DrUnk
08-21-2006, 03:29 PM
wrong thread, sorry.
Raineman
08-21-2006, 03:44 PM
Unk--I used the same comparison before we found our new home here ( or maybe after also, I can't remember)on this board.
"Stokely-ish" was the best I could come up with then.
I think if we are keeping DVD and DWill, it is time to cut the experiment loose. One day at camp watching him (TLT) run the middle of the field was good enough, dude was fearless. Especially w/ McNair's ability to place the ball for YAC. Ed McAfferey (sp) would be a good comparison as well for TLT.
crazyraven
08-21-2006, 04:00 PM
Ask Mike Holmgren about leaving a game in the refs hands.
Did you mean to post this here or are you really drunk?
Art-Florida
08-21-2006, 04:03 PM
Let's all keep our fingers crossed that BB will for once, change his mind. Clarence has proved conclusively that he is testicularly-challenged.
As has been pointed out here, TLT goes over the middle nicely (as do Mason and Clayton) and he seems to have glue hands. His size and speed are not ideal (just like Mason and Clayton) but the guy seems fearless. I'd far rather rely on a short wideout with balls than a tall guy with a vagina.
Then too, you toss devastating blocker Q-Tip into the mix, clearing lanes for these three warriors, and you have a good scenario for those numerous third and seven situations we are likely to see all year.
Hola, TLT, adios, Clarence.
PurpleRulz
08-21-2006, 04:18 PM
I would give the nod to TLT (Ten Dresses). We have plenty of huge redzone targets in Q-Sip, 6'6, Heap, 6'5, and Demetrius Williams, 6'3.
The WR corp I believe will be, Mason, Clayton, Williams, Darling (who still needs one more good game before I call him DVD again), and Ten Dresses.
Ravens0587
08-21-2006, 04:41 PM
No Moore Clarence! Do we have clearance Clarence?
“We have clearance, Clarence.” Roger, Roger.” “What’s our vector, Victor?”
B-more Ravor
08-21-2006, 07:54 PM
Stubborn Billick seems to have a never-ending fascination with him because of his height.
Let's all keep our fingers crossed that BB will for once, change his mind..
Really? Are you guys talking about the same Billick who benched Moore after the 1st game of last year and then had him on the inactive list for the last 12 games ?!?!?!?? :confused:
DrUnk
08-21-2006, 08:09 PM
Really? Are you guys talking about the same Billick who benched Moore after the 1st game of last year and then had him on the inactive list for the last 12 games ?!?!?!?? :confused:
Yeah the same guy that continually benched Hymes, even though all he did was...ummm, catch the ball.:grbac:
Ravenatic20
08-21-2006, 08:15 PM
Yeah the same guy that continually benched Hymes, even though all he did was...ummm, catch the ball.:grbac: 11 times, in the 16 games he saw action last year.
B-more Ravor
08-21-2006, 08:33 PM
Yeah the same guy that continually benched Hymes, even though all he did was...ummm, catch the ball.:grbac:
Fair enough, I like Hymes too, but let's be honest about it, teams weren't exactly knocking each other over to sign him when he became a FA, were they?
But, again, as far as Moore goes, I'm still not seeing this alleged bias toward him on Billick's part. Seems to me that he, like most the rest of us, had seen enough of Moore after the 1st game last year.
PurpleRulz
08-21-2006, 08:49 PM
Randy Hymes is also a WR that is not mentioned amongst the other talented receivers the Jags currently have.
I think we overvalued Hymes for one reason. He caught the ball while other WRs were dropping passes as if the ball had the boogey touch.
We ignored how Hymes ran routes and other intangibles, of which Hymes had none, that make a good/great receiver.
DrUnk
08-21-2006, 08:56 PM
I'm not gonna try to change your mind, but you haven't noticed BB favoring a player? Yeah, people weren't knocking down the door for Hymes, but he made some great catches. With the exception of a few leap balls in the end zone, Moore has done nothing, though they keep trying to thread him passes over the middle, and he keeps dropping them. I'm not bashing Billick, but c'mon, once he supports someone, there is NO WAY in hell he'll admit fault. Case in point; Scott Mitchell, Grbac, Boller, etc.
camdenyard
08-21-2006, 09:00 PM
TLT is the classic training camp overachiever. As such, he may go to PS but no way does he make the team.
Where was he in the first 2 preseason games again?
B-more Ravor
08-21-2006, 09:05 PM
I'm not gonna try to change your mind, but you haven't noticed BB favoring a player? ........ I'm not bashing Billick, but c'mon, once he supports someone, there is NO WAY in hell he'll admit fault.
Well, no, he's never going to say it publicly - he'll always show public support for all of this players (although, perhaps that does given him a convenient excuse not to have to accept fault).
That said, as far as Moore goes, I think benching Moore one game into the season and then leaving him inactive for the last 12 pretty much said that he/they had given up on Moore. I'm not sure how anyone could see that as anything but giving up on him (whether there needs to be a mea culpa as well, I don't know....)
And, the team drafting Williams pretty much said the same - or at least that Moore was going to have to produce or risk being shown the door.
Case in point; Scott Mitchell,
Started 2 games and was replaced by Case in the second one and never saw the field again.
DrUnk
08-21-2006, 09:24 PM
I was talking about the leap of faith comment.
bassgtrst
08-21-2006, 09:28 PM
Moore on the other hand is a proven WR.
Proven to suck.
Moore has had his chance. ANyone can catch jump balls when your 6'6. He was drafted in the 6th round, its not like we spent a high pick on him. SHow him the door IMO.
B-more Ravor
08-21-2006, 09:32 PM
I was talking about the leap of faith comment.
Well, that was the classic rookie HC talking out of his a$$ move right there. :bag:
Personally, I'll give him a break on that one. I think even he now realizes how over the top that statement was. :grbac:
DrUnk
08-21-2006, 09:34 PM
Well we agree on something.:thumbup:
I jus get a little bent with his stubborness. Like blaming the refs instead of our poor clock management, but that's another thread.
B-more Ravor
08-21-2006, 09:42 PM
I jus get a little bent with his stubborness. Like blaming the refs instead of our poor clock management.......
Totally understood. :beer1:
Mista T
08-22-2006, 01:52 AM
I would like to see the rookie make the team, but he won't. Has Billick ever had two rookie WRs?
:mrt:
skimmy
08-22-2006, 04:27 AM
No Moore Clarence! Do we have clearance Clarence?
Roger, Roger
:34853_lolpoint:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b110/ValrieAlexis/6c2e1211.jpg
:rolling:
Brandon
08-22-2006, 05:00 AM
I think it's a very likely possibility that we may carry 4 WRs and 4 RBs this year instead of 5WRs and 3RBs. Moore would be the odd one out, and could either be put on Injured Reserve depending on how he plays within the next few games and how the after effects of the hernia operation hold up.
Moore really isn't a special teams player, and from what I have heard and read, the RAVENS do like P.J. Daniels. Afterall, they did draft the guy in the 4th round, and thinking he will last on the practice squad is a pipe dream. If the RAVENS can use P.J. Daniels on Special teams, he becomes more valuable to them then Clarence Moore, IMO who in effect will be inactive every week because he's the 5th WR, and he doesn't play Special Teams. How often do we have all 5 WRs active on game day anyways?
As far as Travis LaTendersse goes? I only see him as a practice squad player this year at best. He won't be making this team this year.
B-more Ravor
08-22-2006, 07:01 AM
I would like to see the rookie make the team, but he won't. Has Billick ever had two rookie WRs?
2002: Ron Johnson, Javin Hunter and Randy Hymes
2004: Devard Darling (for first couple of games before going on IR) and Clarence Moore
Ravensarge
08-22-2006, 07:57 AM
TLT is the classic training camp overachiever. As such, he may go to PS but no way does he make the team.
Where was he in the first 2 preseason games again?
He was waiting for Olsen to throw to him:laugh: :laugh:
RavenScallywag
08-22-2006, 08:04 AM
TLT had two catches against the Giants...and we only had 3 or 4 receivers catching against the Eagles.
I think from an objective standpoint, TLT makes the squad IF AND ONLY IF
1. More is PUP/IR
and 2. There's no vet option to sign to replace him.
That said, I don't think he'll make the team, but we'll attempt the P Sq (which means he'll be a Brown by Week 4). Pat Johnson will be our #5 WR, at least until Moore can come off the PUP. (PJ is not signed by the team, but I'd almost be willing to wager BB decides to sign him because he got a new haircut which will make him fly down the field faster).
Mobtown
08-22-2006, 08:16 AM
I haven't seen enough of TLT to think that he should make the final 53, but I certainly have seen enough of Moore to know that he shouldn't.
jonboy79
08-22-2006, 11:05 AM
We ignored how Hymes ran routes and other intangibles, of which Hymes had none, that make a good/great receiver.
I like WR's that can outrun DE's too. I bet Hymes ran like a 4.8 40. I've never seen a slower wideout.
Bez513
08-22-2006, 11:13 AM
TLT = Brandon Stokley or Phil McConkey
Give him a shot. :thumbup:
Brandon
08-22-2006, 12:47 PM
Speaking of Randy Hymes? I doubt he makes the Jaguars roster. I saw he didn't even play the last preseason game the Jags had. He is down on the depth chart behind Fred Stamps who was on our practice squad last year.
WinRavensWin
08-22-2006, 06:58 PM
I would like to see TLT get the chance to play with the starters on Friday night or next week...
Just like I would like to see Clarence Moore in a route over the middel, catch the ball and hold on to it for a key first down...
before final cuts.
Time will tell... I believe that both have that dangerous word "Potential". TLT with guts, quickness and what seems to be fly-paper for hands - and Moore standing 6'8" something that you can not teach or obtain. I am trying to give Moore the benefit of the doubt, supposedly he played somewhat hurt last year with the hernia. If true, you could see how taken a hit may be on his mind. If he is still hurting from the surgery, put him on PUP. However, if he is healed send his tall ass over the middle - if his arms (and testicles) shrink again - bye, bye Clarence and hello TLT! :thumbup:
RavinDonnie
08-22-2006, 07:18 PM
I'd like to see Moore play with McNair. Boller and Wright both throw some serious hospital passes.
I am glad Derek Mason is still walking after last year.
Tspot-D-Ravenator
08-22-2006, 07:36 PM
I second that. Stubborn Billick seems to have a never-ending fascination with him because of his height.
How in the world do you know?? Have you talked to anyone in the Ravens organization??? :insane:
RavenFanatic2k6
08-22-2006, 08:23 PM
I don't see the fascination with TLT. He made a couple good catches in a SCRIMMAGE! Not saying Moore is any better, but Moore has performed at the NFL level in real live games. Having said that I don't think either of them deserves to be on the roster as of right now, but if I had to guess, I'd say it will be Moore.
Brandon
08-23-2006, 05:16 AM
I also don't really see the fascination with Travis LaTenderess. I think comparing him to Brandon Stokely is kind of a stretch.
I think Travis could be a good practice squad player for us this year and then see what happens next preseason. He hasn't exactly lit the world on fire, and if he isn't a good special teams player, he definitely won't be on the team.
Moore wouldn't even complete his route against the Irsays in 2004, that's all I needed to see. Was he hurt then? He allowed a very well thrown ball get intercepted because his balls were still in the locker room. He has cringed from going over the middle since we have had him here. His only catches are down the side line and in the end zone.
I don't know if TLT makes the team but I do know Moore will shrink every time he has a chance to take a pop. We will see how much action both of them get and how they respond over the next 2 games. If TLT runs some nice routes, gets open and catches the ball he can displace Moore. If Moore catches a ball over the middle and takes a hit and then holds onto the ball, he will make the team unless he later starts cowering in fear again.
RavenScallywag
08-23-2006, 11:01 AM
The consensus I'm seeing is that TLT should make the P Sq, while we're not to confident in Moore doing anything big. This leads me to think we might try to bring in a vet receiver that gets cut from somewhere else. Perhaps Charles Rogers from Detroit?
Sports Steve
08-23-2006, 12:23 PM
Before we talk about cutting Moore remember who was throwing to him. McNair will be more accurate then Boller. When we won in New York against the Jets two (2) years ago remember who saved us it was Moore catching 2 TD's. Keeping Moore #5 will help this team in the long run. TLT needs to be on the practice squad this year. If it doesn't work out then the Ravens can still get rid of Moore and bring in TLT.
:jester: :jester: :jester: :happy:
Before we talk about cutting Moore remember who was throwing to him.
The dude quit on a route for a perfectly thrown ball that was not going to require him to stretch or expose his ribs. He made the turn then STOPPED. The ball was thrown just as he stopped, he didn't stop in anticipation of a hit on a ball he would have to stretch for, he just stopped. If you watch the guy enough he is terrified to go over the middle. I don't blame him, I would be too, but I am not collecting game checks for being a pansy.
gooselovechild
08-23-2006, 10:06 PM
we might try to bring in a vet receiver that gets cut from somewhere else. Perhaps Charles Rogers from Detroit?
I would think that if we bring in a vet WR, it would be someone who is multi-faceted...can return kicks, isn't afraid to block, etc.
One other point...how many vets with any real talent are going to sign to be the #5 WR anyway?
You're probably looking more at a Dez White/Justin Gage type for that 5th spot...someone who will only be activated if someone else gets hurt.