Brian Billick employed again ???

[ravenmad71]

With the expected hiring of Mike Smith as head coach for the Atlanta Falcons could Brian Billick look to his brother -in -law who is Mike Smith for a new job? Brian gave him (Mike Smith ) a shot while here with the Ravens.. Mind you Brian is getting paid a hefty sum to relax and sip lemonade for the next few years.. but if nothing else its something to ponder.........

[purplepoe]

No chance IMO.

PP

[highwater]

Billick has been a head coach for nine years, won a Super Bowl and took his team to the playoffs numerous times -- I would be very surprised if he took a coordinator job anywhere next year. If I were him, I'd take the year off and try to make the five million coming to him offset the fact that Bisciotti stabbed him in the back after telling him that he'd be returning as HC.

If he's employed next year, it will probably be with a network, not as an assistant coach somewhere.

[Losac]

No one in his right mind would hire Billick as an OC or assistant. He hasn't proven he can manage a game, call plays or run a 2-minute drill in 9 years. Outside of Bmore, Billick is thought of as the arrogant offensive "genius" who never lived up to that label.

[highwater]

He hasn't proven he can manage a game, call plays or run a 2-minute drill in 9 years.

Wow, then he must have been the luckiest guy in the world to win more games than he lost during those nine years, seeing how he's such a moron. :eyes:

[AZRAVEN]

Man, Losac, such hatred. I would say the 13-3 record last year proves he can still do those things. Couple that with his offenses at Minnesota and I think your assessment is both harsh and off target.

[purplepoe]

No one in his right mind would hire Billick as an OC or assistant. He hasn't proven he can manage a game, call plays or run a 2-minute drill in 9 years. Outside of Bmore, Billick is thought of as the arrogant offensive "genius" who never lived up to that label.

Im wondering what your expectations are for Harbaugh.

PP

[Greg]

Billick isn't a good game manager, but he has managed just the offense successfully. I think he is a better HC candidate than an OC candidate because he is a better planner than manager during a game.

That said, if he only has to concentrate on offense instead of the whole team plus logistics he could probably game plan his ass off.

Whatever some people think, he will get plenty of looks and another HC job when/if he is ready.

Around the league people think Billick has won games and has a lot of players who love the guy. The media as a whole might not like him but the actual people in the league are high on the guy.

He'll cash his Bisciotti checks and do some network gig that is 10% the work being an NFL HC is. And he will do it well, he will be prepared and informative.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

I don't think theres any way you see Billick coach this year or next. Why? IMO no reason to, you are making 5 mil a year to do nothing. Why put yourself back into the grind of being a HC in the NFL?

[Greg]

I don't think theres any way you see Billick coach this year or next. Why? IMO no reason to, you are making 5 mil a year to do nothing. Why put yourself back into the grind of being a HC in the NFL?
He will miss the competition. I would bet he would get back in. That said, I wouldn't be shocked if he did the network gig for a year and really liked it he might stay with that.

[HoustonRaven]

No chance ...

That would mean he would take a step backward AND lose his fat Ravens paycheck to sit around and do nothing.

He will be on TV next season. Mark my words.

[Rayvens52]

No chance ...

That would mean he would take a step backward AND lose his fat Ravens paycheck to sit around and do nothing.

He will be on TV next season. Mark my words.

you are absoutly right. There is no chance he coaches next year because he would not come close to 5 million a year anywhere else. He may coach again but i would bet not for atleast 2 years.

[UKRavenStockers]

If he takes another coaching job doesn't Bisciotti have to pick up the difference between his new contract and the $5mill? So that Billick picks up the combined £5mill.

[highwater]

If he takes another coaching job doesn't Bisciotti have to pick up the difference between his new contract and the $5mill? So that Billick picks up the combined £5mill.

That is exactly how most of these contracts are drawn up, but it still means that if Billick took a job next year as a coordinator, for instance, he'd basically be working for free, because the Ravens will pay him his $5 million whether he gets another coaching gig or not.

I'd be surprised if he coaches next year. I think he'll pull a Cowher and sit out for a year or two, and then maybe get back in the game.

[Heap86]

Wow, then he must have been the luckiest guy in the world to win more games than he lost during those nine years, seeing how he's such a moron.

He won alot of games with a Great Defense.

He is an Offensive Coach and our Offense has been among the leagues worst ever since he has been here.

I give the Defensive coaches more credit for assembling his record, just like I would give the Offensive coaches in Cinci more credit for assembling a great Offense than Marvin Lewis.

[purplepoe]

Wow, then he must have been the luckiest guy in the world to win more games than he lost during those nine years, seeing how he's such a moron.

He won alot of games with a Great Defense.

He is an Offensive Coach and our Offense has been among the leagues worst ever since he has been here.

I give the Defensive coaches more credit for assembling his record, just like I would give the Offensive coaches in Cinci more credit for assembling a great Offense than Marvin Lewis.

Im sorry.

Remind me again what the point of playing these games is?

I seem to remember it's to win them.

Do you think the fact that the talent on offense this team has had is among the worst in the league has anything to do with it's struggles?

What do you expect the Harbaugh/Cameron combo to do with this offense?

Do you think it's gonna be much improved even though it looks like the major components are gonna be the same?

It's amazing how some people wanna take away wins from a former coach who won a SB and had an overall winning record during a 9 year run.

I wonder what's gonna happen if we don't go 12-4 and win the division next season.

I bet some will still be blaming Billick.

Heaven forbid the players take some responsibility for their actual play on the field.

PP

[AZRAVEN]

He's gone, who cares? Don't we have enough to think about with the Ravens without continuing to beat up the guy that's gone? The level of hostility directed towards Billick is unbelievable.

[purplepoe]

He's gone, who cares? Don't we have enough to think about with the Ravens without continuing to beat up the guy that's gone? The level of hostility directed towards Billick is unbelievable.

Just wait and see what happens if Harbaugh doesn't set the world on fire from the get go.

The "Anybody but Billick" crowd is in for a rude awakening come next September when we trot what looks to be almost the same offensive personnel out there that we did last year.

PP

[highwater]

[I give the Defensive coaches more credit for assembling his record, just like I would give the Offensive coaches in Cinci more credit for assembling a great Offense than Marvin Lewis.

You can obviously give credit to whoever you want, but I think that's a seriously flawed point of view. Billick was the head coach, not just an offensive coach. The defense sucked before he got here. He got them to play like a team. He worked with three different DCs while here, and the defense was always good. People who whine about how it's all Billick's fault that the offense sucks but act like he's had nothing to do with the defense are just plain wrong.

[evade6317]

If he did, you know the Ravens could trade Boller to the Falcons for a high draft pick.

[Rayvens52]

Just wait and see what happens if Harbaugh doesn't set the world on fire from the get go.

The "Anybody but Billick" crowd is in for a rude awakening come next September when we trot what looks to be almost the same offensive personnel out there that we did last year.

PP

I agree. I am not expecting any miracles here. I am just hoping that somenew blood on the coaching front will change players attitudes. I'm thankful for Billick, he did get us a ring, but I was also happy to see him leave as it was time. This is going to be a great year as we will find out if we just needed a change at the top, or if we need to start to rebuild. If we need to rebuild fine, we get to see some new faces through FA and the draft, if not we get to watch our players change the way the look at the game. Either way this should be fun! :happyanim

[B-more Ravor]

I too think he'll sit out this year, but......if there is one guy who could get him back, it's possible that it's his brother-in-law (assuming they are still close, as was always reported when they were both here).

[darb72]

Im sorry.

Remind me again what the point of playing these games is?

I seem to remember it's to win them.

Do you think the fact that the talent on offense this team has had is among the worst in the league has anything to do with it's struggles?

What do you expect the Harbaugh/Cameron combo to do with this offense?

Do you think it's gonna be much improved even though it looks like the major components are gonna be the same?

It's amazing how some people wanna take away wins from a former coach who won a SB and had an overall winning record during a 9 year run.

I wonder what's gonna happen if we don't go 12-4 and win the division next season.

I bet some will still be blaming Billick.

Heaven forbid the players take some responsibility for their actual play on the field.

PP

I'm wanting to see our offense play to win. Are we going to match the Patriots or Colts? Nope. Can we actually not give up in the red-zone and stop settleing for FGs? That I'm hopeful for.

New coach, new attitude. Hopefully more wins.

[Heap86]

Do you think the fact that the talent on offense this team has had is among the worst in the league has anything to do with it's struggles?


Well, the talent at QB that Billick picked were all failures

Boller, Grbac, Case, Mitchell etc., all guys hand picked by Billick, not to mention the QB who took us to the Superbowl was later dumped by Billick and an up and coming superstar who is now in Cleveland was cut by Billick.

Just about all of his personnel decisions involving Quarterbacks have been horrible.

Don't go and make excuses that the Offensive talent he was given was crap.

The only good decision Billick made in his coaching tenure was to bench Tony Banks in favor of Trent Dilfer.

[purplepoe]

Do you think the fact that the talent on offense this team has had is among the worst in the league has anything to do with it's struggles?


Well, the talent at QB that Billick picked were all failures

Boller, Grbac, Case, Mitchell etc., all guys hand picked by Billick, not to mention the QB who took us to the Superbowl was later dumped by Billick and an up and coming superstar who is now in Cleveland was cut by Billick.

Just about all of his personnel decisions involving Quarterbacks have been horrible.

Don't go and make excuses that the Offensive talent he was given was crap.

The only good decision Billick made in his coaching tenure was to bench Tony Banks in favor of Trent Dilfer.

Wow, Billick was not only the coach but the GM as well?

Geez, he was underpaid at $5 million a year if he was pulling double duty.

PP

[Losac]

Wow, Billick was not only the coach but the GM as well?

Geez, he was underpaid at $5 million a year if he was pulling double duty.

PP
I'm sorry, Billick was not the GM, but he most certainly had a hand in picking Boller, trading for Mitchell, and signing Grbac/dumping Dilfer. At least it was his decision to start Boller as a rookie and put him right into the fire.

[HoustonRaven]

Wow, Billick was not only the coach but the GM as well?

Geez, he was underpaid at $5 million a year if he was pulling double duty.

PP

Oh stop. You know what he meant.

Billick loved the Pac-10 and was very into Boller's future when he was at Cal. That's not some big secret. Ngata was "hand picked" by Billick too -- meaning he pushed for him to get signed.

[festivus]

I'm sorry, Billick was not the GM, but he most certainly had a hand in picking Boller, trading for Mitchell, and signing Grbac/dumping Dilfer. At least it was his decision to start Boller as a rookie and put him right into the fire.

Yes, starting him instead of Chris freakin' Redman. We would have won the goddamned Super Bowl with Chris "I wasn't ready to play" Redman!

Whatever Billick's contributions behind closed doors, he was *not* the gm, and personnel is the gm's responsibility. Blaming Billick for personnel decisions is like blaming the Vice President for stuff the President does.

I should probably let you guys hate unreasonably on Billick, now that he's gone and getting paid for sitting on his front porch, but it's irritating. Oh well, carry on.

[highwater]

Billick loved the Pac-10 and was very into Boller's future when he was at Cal.

Then why did the Ravens try to trade up with the Vikings to draft Leftwich? If the Vikings answer the phone and get things done in a timely manner, Boller doesn't even get drafted by the Ravens.

Of course Billick had some input into some of these decisions, but stop turning him into the personnel guy. He wasn't.

[Losac]

Yes, starting him instead of Chris freakin' Redman. We would have won the goddamned Super Bowl with Chris "I wasn't ready to play" Redman!


Who needs him when you have a green rookie who can throw the ball through the goal posts from his knees!

[RAVENOUS52]

**AHEM!!**

I'll take the time to step away from you cats bickering like a bunch of old hags at Bingo Night in South Baltimore and get back to the actual (gasp!) TOPIC of this thread.

I don't think Billick will step back into the shark tank as anything less than a HC and not unless the situation fits his specific parameters <--(Billick-speak).

Also, I feel it's too soon for him to do so and that he'll need a couple of years to lick his wounds and collect his money, all while raising the IQ of whichever NFL program he decides to let employ him...

I know I'll be watching attentively with pen and pad whenever he's on...:thumbup:

[RavensNTerps]

If the Ravens had drafted Leftwich and he didn't pan out, as he hasn't panned out, then I bet our "fans" would be saying that Leftwich was Billick's boy but Ozzie wanted Boller.

[festivus]

Who needs him when you have a green rookie who can throw the ball through the goal posts from his knees!

Losac, to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, you play NFL football with the team you have, not the team you want.

I really hadn't pegged you for one of the ones who thought Redman should have been starting, and was evilly ruined by Brian Billick. It's not like Redman *ever* did anything to make me wonder, but perhaps the fact that Redman was once again on an NFL team this year is justification in your mind for second guessing that decision made six years ago.

Color me wrong, I guess.

If you *are* one of those folks then I don't care to discuss it anymore, no offense.

[HoustonRaven]

Then why did the Ravens try to trade up with the Vikings to draft Leftwich? If the Vikings answer the phone and get things done in a timely manner, Boller doesn't even get drafted by the Ravens.

Of course Billick had some input into some of these decisions, but stop turning him into the personnel guy. He wasn't.

No team focuses on ONE player. They didnt target Leftwich and nobody else. Billick has a long track record with pac-10 schools. Boller had is eye.

When did I say he is the personnel guy??? Just because he doesnt make the final decision doesnt mean his input ranks low. He was the chef (as is Harbaugh now) and has the biggest say on what ingrediants he wants.

[festivus]

No team focuses on ONE player. They didnt target Leftwich and nobody else. Billick has a long track record with pac-10 schools. Boller had is eye.

When did I say he is the personnel guy??? Just because he doesnt make the final decision doesnt mean his input ranks low. He was the chef (as is Harbaugh now) and has the biggest say on what ingrediants he wants.

No.

No no no no no no.

No.

Houston stating things as fact does not make them so.

Sorry.

Billick did *not* have responsibility for drafting when he was here as head coach.

Nevermind that we were literally desperate for a quarterback, because of the early departure of Grbac, and we needed somebody who could take snaps. We got someone at pick 19 who is still in the league, five years later. Other teams have done worse at qb with better picks.

Boller was *Ozzie's* pick. However much Billick may have liked him or disliked him, he was Ozzie's pick. It is not the Vice President who signs a bill into law.

:brickwall:

[HoustonRaven]

No.

No no no no no no.

No.

Houston stating things as fact does not make them so.

Sorry.

Billick did *not* have responsibility for drafting when he was here as head coach.

Uhh ... I never said he did.


Nevermind that we were literally desperate for a quarterback, because of the early departure of Grbac, and we needed somebody who could take snaps. We got someone at pick 19 who is still in the league, five years later. Other teams have done worse at qb with better picks.

Boller was *Ozzie's* pick. However much Billick may have liked him or disliked him, he was Ozzie's pick. It is not the Vice President who signs a bill into law.

:brickwall:

I agree. Arent we saying the same thing? Yes, of course, its not Billick alone. I've said that and will always say it. But his input is much larger then you give him credit for. Teams do not become succesful with GM's who are in the coaches way -- see down 95 with the Maryland Redskins.

Are you saying that Billick simply got players handed to him and was told to make due with what he got?

That's not very realistic and if Next Man Up is accurate, that's not a realistic assumption on your part.

[festivus]

Houston you are saying Ozzie was gm, and Billick had some responsibility for the selection of Kyle Boller because of Billick's influence over the decision making process.

What I am saying is, Ozzie was gm, and Ozzie took the input of coaches at all levels, including position coaches, and of course the recommendations of his own staff, before he and he alone took responsibility for making draft selections. Brian's voice was one of many in Ozzie's ear.

Houston don't wave Next Man Up at me. I read it. Did you?

[HoustonRaven]

Houston you are saying Ozzie was gm, and Billick had some responsibility for the selection of Kyle Boller because of Billick's influence over the decision making process.

Of course not. I do say he (and now Harbaugh) has strong input. If he or Harbaugh go to Ozzie and says they want Joe Schmo, Ozzie will do what he can to make it happen. Why else was every head coach at the senior games this past weekend?


What I am saying is, Ozzie was gm, and Ozzie took the input of coaches at all levels, including position coaches, and of course the recommendations of his own staff, before he and he alone took responsibility for making draft selections. Brian's voice was one of many in Ozzie's ear.

Houston don't wave Next Man Up at me. I read it. Did you?

Yeah. Read it twice. And it's quite detailed how beholdened Billick was to Boller. I dont doubt Ozzie liked him too. Yes, Billick was one of many voices. But I think it's clear, based on local and national media combined with inside reports like Next Man Up, that Billick had more then just a one-voice say in who we drafted.

Yes, Ozzie has final say. That's the job of the GM. But he doesnt ship people to the coach that the coach doesnt want either.

[highwater]

He was the chef (as is Harbaugh now) and has the biggest say on what ingrediants he wants.

Wrong again -- of course Billick had some input, as any HC should, but he did not have the "biggest say." That would belong to Ozzie.

And yes, I read "Next Man Up" too. We seem to be interpreting it differently.

[festivus]

Of course not. I do say he (and now Harbaugh) has strong input. If he or Harbaugh go to Ozzie and says they want Joe Schmo, Ozzie will do what he can to make it happen. Why else was every head coach at the senior games this past weekend?

You keep making it sound like Ozzie is some kind of waiter taking orders from his coaches.

That's just wrong. Coaches can voice their opinions just as my kids can voice their opinions at family dinner, and the Vice President can voice his opinion about whether a bill becomes a law.

If you were right, why would the scouts not work for the coaching staff, instead of for the gm?

Number of times read Next Man Up =/= Number of times understood Next Man Up

You remain obstinately wrong on a simple point, and I no longer am interested in persuading you.

Cheers!

[HoustonRaven]

You keep making it sound like Ozzie is some kind of waiter taking orders from his coaches.

No. I didnt even suggest that. It's not an either / or proposition. Yes, Billick is the coach and has input. Yes, Ozzzie has the final say. ALL NFL teams rely on a coaches input on selecting people -- Im not saying nothing more or nothing less.


That's just wrong. Coaches can voice their opinions just as my kids can voice their opinions at family dinner, and the Vice President can voice his opinion about whether a bill becomes a law.

If you were right, why would the scouts not work for the coaching staff, instead of for the gm?

Number of times read Next Man Up =/= Number of times understood Next Man Up

You remain obstinately wrong on a simple point, and I no longer am interested in persuading you.

Cheers!

And to quote you, just because you state it as fact, doesnt make it so. Slam the book, the media, me, etc all you want but every NFL uses their coaches input on making personnel desicisons. These player picks do not happen in a vacuum.

I never said scouts work for the coach. Not sure why you keep reading into my posts on this. Scouts work for the GM. (???)

[HoustonRaven]

Wrong again -- of course Billick had some input, as any HC should, but he did not have the "biggest say." That would belong to Ozzie.

And yes, I read "Next Man Up" too. We seem to be interpreting it differently.

I guess we're defining "biggest say" differently.

If Harbaugh walked into Ozzie's office tomorrow and said he wanted ... oh, I dont know .... Colt McCoy really badly, Ozzie would find a way to make it happen. (Before anyone else says it, I know he isnt coming out. Im using his name as an example since he's on my TV right now).

Now, because of that, I do not for one second suggest that Ozzie doesnt have a say, make the final decision, etc.

What I am saying is that the process, like almsot everything in coaching is a partnership.

Yes, there are players that Ozzies wants and Ozzie gets, more times then we probably know. But if Harbaugh says a certain player gives them the best chance to win, Ozzie is smart enough to not get in the way (unless he thinks the guy is not good for the team).

But I do not agree, based on a huge amount of reports, major parts of a book, local sports reporters, etc, that tell me the coach gets far more say in the decisions than some here give him credit for.

[Losac]

Losac, to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, you play NFL football with the team you have, not the team you want.

I really hadn't pegged you for one of the ones who thought Redman should have been starting, and was evilly ruined by Brian Billick. It's not like Redman *ever* did anything to make me wonder, but perhaps the fact that Redman was once again on an NFL team this year is justification in your mind for second guessing that decision made six years ago.

Color me wrong, I guess.

If you *are* one of those folks then I don't care to discuss it anymore, no offense.

If you draft a QB and plan to develop him as your franchise QB, it's never a good decision to start him right away as a rookie. Sure, it works once in awhile (Worthlessberger), but usually it hurts the development more than it helps. In the long term, it was more "prudent" (if you like Billick speak) to let Boller sit for at least a year to let the game sink in.

Redman should have been cut, but I do seem to remember going to the playoffs that year behind Anthony Wright.

I think most people universally admit one of Billick's main mistakes was to start Boller right out of the gate, but apparently there are a few who think it was a good decision.

[festivus]

Losac we can agree starting Boller as a rookie was terrible for Boller, for sure. But somebody has to start, for the team. That conversation is water under the bridge, as far as I'm concerned.

Houston you have successfully backed off your point, so I don't think we disagree anymore. Billick has input, like all coaches do. GM's do the drafting, which is why the scouts work for *them*. The coaches can request things of the gms just as anyone supervised can request something of the supervisor.

Sounds good to me!

[HoustonRaven]

Houston you have successfully backed off your point, so I don't think we disagree anymore. Billick has input, like all coaches do. GM's do the drafting, which is why the scouts work for *them*. The coaches can request things of the gms just as anyone supervised can request something of the supervisor.

I didnt back off of anything. Go back and re-read my posts since getting to these boards and I have said the same thing.

Three straight responses and you've succesfully read into all three.

:laugh:

[purplepoe]

If Harbaugh walked into Ozzie's office tomorrow and said he wanted ... oh, I dont know .... Colt McCoy really badly, Ozzie would find a way to make it happen. (Before anyone else says it, I know he isnt coming out. Im using his name as an example since he's on my TV right now).


Uh, I couldn't disagree more.

There's a reason every team has scouts. They are the ones who provide Ozzie with the most detailed info about the players available in the draft.

As far as Next Man Up.

It's amazing that you can come away thinking the coach has as much impact on who is drafted as you think.

If anything, I would say that book reinforced that Ozzie has COMPLETE control of who gets drafted on this team.

As far as the rest of this thread.

Why in the hell is Billick getting blamed for starting Boller when, as ridiculous as it sounds, he was the best option.

The teflon GM is gonna start walking on water soon.

Amazing.

That's OK though. Im sure this offense is gonna make leaps and bounds this year with virtually the same personnel.

Who gets the blame then?

It can't be the players, can it?

PP

[HoustonRaven]

Uh, I couldn't disagree more.

There's a reason every team has scouts. They are the ones who provide Ozzie with the most detailed info about the players available in the draft.

As far as Next Man Up.

It's amazing that you can come away thinking the coach has as much impact on who is drafted as you think.

If anything, I would say that book reinforced that Ozzie has COMPLETE control of who gets drafted on this team.

As far as the rest of this thread.

Why in the hell is Billick getting blamed for starting Boller when, as ridiculous as it sounds, he was the best option.

The teflon GM is gonna start walking on water soon.

Amazing.

That's OK though. Im sure this offense is gonna make leaps and bounds this year with virtually the same personnel.

Who gets the blame then?

It can't be the players, can it?

PP

Im agreeing with you. I never said Ozzie doesnt have complete control (is that a double negative sentence?).

Ozzie DEFINITELY deserves some blame if players perform like baffoons. The ONLY point I take excpetion with Festivus is the head coach's influence (or lack thereof) regarding picking players.

Im 100% on your side with the Boller discussion though.

[purplepoe]

Im agreeing with you. I never said Ozzie doesnt have complete control (is that a double negative sentence?).

Ozzie DEFINITELY deserves some blame if players perform like baffoons. The ONLY point I take excpetion with Festivus is the head coach's influence (or lack thereof) regarding picking players.

Im 100% on your side with the Boller discussion though.

Here's my issue with what you are saying Houston.

You seem to think that if the HC goes to Ozzie and asks for a player that Ozzie is gonna do whatever he can to get that player.

I totally disagree with that.

IMO he takes that under advisement and that's it.

He will sit down with his personnel guys and go over every player they have an interest in and set the board.

The HC of a NFL team spends the majority of his time concentrating on coaching the team etc...

All that time he's doing that, the scouts and Ozzie are scouring over hours of film determining what guys they wanna target.

Ozzie isn't gonna throw that out the window just because the HC or any other coach says he wants a particular player.

PP

[HoustonRaven]

Here's my issue with what you are saying Houston.

You seem to think that if the HC goes to Ozzie and asks for a player that Ozzie is gonna do whatever he can to get that player.

I totally disagree with that.

IMO he takes that under advisement and that's it.

He will sit down with his personnel guys and go over every player they have an interest in and set the board.

The HC of a NFL team spends the majority of his time concentrating on coaching the team etc...

All that time he's doing that, the scouts and Ozzie are scouring over hours of film determining what guys they wanna target.

Ozzie isn't gonna throw that out the window just because the HC or any other coach says he wants a particular player.

PP

OK, I see your point now and I think we do agree actually.

I was taking it as an assumption all the film viewing, reports, etc were taken for granted in our discussion. I guess it parcing words, but I dont think Ozzie would say the actual words "I will take it under advisement". That smacks of a lack of a partnership between the GM and the coach, which I dont think happened with Oz and Billick.

I agree with you 100% (for once)!

[highwater]

I guess it parcing words, but I dont think Ozzie would say the actual words "I will take it under advisement". That smacks of a lack of a partnership between the GM and the coach, which I dont think happened with Oz and Billick.

This debate really has turned into a wordsmithing exercise. I think we all agree that Billick had input, and that he and Ozzie worked well together, but that Billick did not have "the biggest say" as you (Houston) said earlier in the thread. Yes, Billick had input, but not the final word.

Let's put this issue to bed and find something else to politely bicker about.

[HoustonRaven]

This debate really has turned into a wordsmithing exercise. I think we all agree that Billick had input, and that he and Ozzie worked well together, but that Billick did not have "the biggest say" as you (Houston) said earlier in the thread. Yes, Billick had input, but not the final word.

Let's put this issue to bed and find something else to politely bicker about.

:iagree: :beer1:

[festivus]

I didnt back off of anything. Go back and re-read my posts since getting to these boards and I have said the same thing.

Sure thing! I will.

I read this:

Billick loved the Pac-10 and was very into Boller's future when he was at Cal. That's not some big secret. Ngata was "hand picked" by Billick too -- meaning he pushed for him to get signed.

and this:

Of course not. I do say he (and now Harbaugh) has strong input. If he or Harbaugh go to Ozzie and says they want Joe Schmo, Ozzie will do what he can to make it happen. (emphasis added by me)

and in the same post


Yes, Ozzie has final say. That's the job of the GM. But he doesnt ship people to the coach that the coach doesnt want either.

which is why I responded


You keep making it sound like Ozzie is some kind of waiter taking orders from his coaches.

To which you restated your position thusly:


No. I didnt even suggest that. It's not an either / or proposition. Yes, Billick is the coach and has input. Yes, Ozzzie has the final say. ALL NFL teams rely on a coaches input on selecting people -- Im not saying nothing more or nothing less.

Ok, now I read them together, and so has everyone else. Readers can draw their own conclusions.

There was a time I was much less combative on this forum. I miss those days. *sigh*

[HoustonRaven]

Sure thing! I will.

I read this:


and this:
(emphasis added by me)

and in the same post



which is why I responded



To which you restated your position thusly:



Ok, now I read them together, and so has everyone else. Readers can draw their own conclusions.

There was a time I was much less combative on this forum. I miss those days. *sigh*

Decaf. Really. :grbac:

[highwater]

There was a time I was much less combative on this forum. I miss those days. *sigh*

Sack up, festivus! You are not being combative! Besides, a little debate is healthy, and neither you nor Houston has gone out of bounds (so far).

Houston (can I call you Houston?), your position on this topic has been a bit of a moving target to my eyes, but as I said before, I think we are splitting hairs with our choice of words. I think we're actually all pretty much on the same page, so enough of :girlfight

[festivus]

Decaf. Really. :grbac:

Oh I am SO sorry to disappoint you Houston.

For your information, this is what we call an ad hominem attack. Which means you are changing the subject from our debate to *me*.

Fine, fine. As I said, the readers can decide for themselves. I was just reading posts, like you suggested.

[HoustonRaven]

Oh I am SO sorry to disappoint you Houston.

For your information, this is what we call an ad hominem attack. Which means you are changing the subject from our debate to *me*.

Fine, fine. As I said, the readers can decide for themselves. I was just reading posts, like you suggested.

yeah decaf .... read what HW said. Nothing personal in anything I've said.

Relax.

[darb72]

We know dang well I don't have any input, or we'd have the best offensive line in the NFL!

Ok, y'all go back to arguing.

[festivus]

yeah decaf .... read what HW said. Nothing personal in anything I've said.

Relax.

I didn't take anything personally, and I *did* read what Highwater said. Once again we read the same thing and interpreted it differently.

I am relaxed, thanks for your concern. I'm just not giving in. It's different.

[flraven]

I understand it that Billick gets the whole $15 mil unless he gets a HC gig. If he gets a network gig, he still gets the $15 mil.

that's going to be one hell of a country house he's building in St. Michaels!