OT/ Same old Angelos

[Losac]

The Sun has an article today about the Bedard-to-Seattle trade stalling, and the reason? You guessed it....Angelos. Seems the King Midget has yet to sign off on the deal. MacPhail has exactly as much authority as Flanagan, Duquette and Beattie did, which is none. Angelos will continue to hold up the process, and veto deals he doesn't like instead of letting his baseball people do what they are paid to do.

Can he please just die already?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.orioles29jan29,0,4465915.story

[Greg]

Does that short little nimrod understand that Bedard is gone in 10 months anyway? Why would he want to stay here? The only thing that can stop the trade, King Pete, is the very thing that makes players bolt when they hit FA.

What a complete douche.

[purplepoe]

Does that short little nimrod understand that Bedard is gone in 10 months anyway? Why would he want to stay here? The only thing that can stop the trade, King Pete, is the very thing that makes players bolt when they hit FA.

What a complete douche.

Bedard is signed through 09.

That said, they need to move him now.

I went over to the Orioles Scout board.

The Angelos apologists are hilarious.

One guy claims the only thing Angelos has done over the past 10 years that has negatively affected the team was the Mussina debacle.

Unreal.

PP

[TheExtraPoint]

Not like I think it will have a tangible affect, but people should boycott opening day if this is true.

Empty seats on that one day would speak volumes.

[festivus]

I am fascinated by the Orioles organization the same way I am fascinated at the outtakes in a Jackie Chan movie, when they show stunts going spectacularly wrong over the closing credits.

That man is always finding new ways to set himself on fire, just like Jackie Chan.

[purplepoe]

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=251&f=2023#s=251&f=2023&t=1932531

Read this thread and you'll see some delusional thinking.

Hilarious.

PP

[HoustonRaven]

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=251&f=2023#s=251&f=2023&t=1932531

Read this thread and you'll see some delusional thinking.

Hilarious.

PP

:grbac:

Holy Jesus. Im convinced some of those idiots are writing from the O's FO and not fans.

[Losac]

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=251&f=2023#s=251&f=2023&t=1932531

Read this thread and you'll see some delusional thinking.

Hilarious.

PP

Purplepoe - almost as bad as the boobs over at Orioles Hangout. Probably the same bunch of Angelos apologists.

I too, was excited about McPhail. I thought just maybe Angelos would butt out and let the baseball people do their jobs. But this article speaks volumes as to who is still running the show.

It's not even his meddling that's necessarily the problem here. It's that he's a bottleneck in the process. It's been documented that potential trades have sat on his desk waiting for him to sign off for days or even weeks, either because he's too busy or out of town, or whatever. It's frustrating. Then teams get cold feet and pull out because they're sick of playing the waiting game. Teams hate dealing with the Orioles for this reason.

[purplepoe]

Now the rumor is Jones has a degenerative hip condition.

I heard that on NST @ 1 when I was getting lunch.

I still cannot believe that one dude said, with a straight face, that the only thing Angelos has done to negatively affect the team was the Mussina debacle.

I fell into the trap of providing him some other examples of Angelos fucking up the organization.

Needless to say it wasn't a hard list to compile.

PP

[pyite32]

Can he please just die already?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.orioles29jan29,0,4465915.story

Although I agree this would make the world a better place, his son is poised to take over and I've heard that he is even worse.

[Greg]

One of his sons is an incredible a**hole.

[highwater]

I'm holding out hope that this is all premature, and that Angelos isn't going to micro-manage this trade into oblivion. But if this turns out to true, is it possible, or even likely, that McPhail will quit? He doesn't need to put up with this crap from a no-nothing owner, just like Pat Gillick didn't.

[ExiledRaven]

Maybe someday i can make a fortune on class-action asbestos and mismanage a once-proud franchise into the ground. I am universally mocked, by CUBS FANS...for the Orioles. It really hurts.

edit: oh as far as the trade. Should have traded Tejada two years ago. Bedard does need to be moved, and for prime prospects. Then again, hearing some of the things about players traded here from houston is downright funny.

[HoustonRaven]

I cant even be a Stros fan now since Miggy made his way here. Such a sad day for baseball in general.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

It's good he did, the trade would have been horrible.

And Bedard has never said he doesn't want to play here. In fact, he said a few days ago that if things were right he would be open to staying.

But Angelos and his famous "hometown discounts" will prevent that from ever happening.

[ravensfan1996]

Stan the fan (ok stop laughing), said on 1300 his source said that jones came back from venezuala a few weeks ago to take a physical and they had found that condition(deg hip). So thats why the O's wanted one too but not unheard of for most trades to go thru for any player really. I heard because of this possible condition they wanted more players to make the deal. SOO, if this rumor comes true and thats the only reason it was held up, ill give angelos the benefit of th doubt. The whole albert belle thing im sure has him a bit worried. (although i think he had an insurance policy to pay alberts salary)

Just my 2 cents, its easy to blame sneaky pete, im going to wait this one out, if its all him for no reason but pete wanting to keep him for some reason, then its shame. If it turns out he does have this condition, then its not big pete, its the organization saying, no.

[mr_tweaker]

It's mean-spirited but I can't help but laugh at this Angelos loss: http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-bz.superblock31jan31,0,7984057.story

If it was anybody else, I might have agreed but he has earned my scorn.

[flraven]

Hey, I don't like Angeloser either, but there's a new story at the Sun that says Angelos didn't nix the deal and the hip problem is unsubstantiated.
Angelos didn't nix deal (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.orioles31jan31,0,1385709.story)

FWIW, read the Roch around the Clock blog. Roch Kubatko seems to be pretty fair in his reporting.

[awalt]

Not that Angelos hasn't done a ton to run down the franchise, but consider a couple of points:

1. The OP who said that as fact Angelos slowed down this deal was a ridiculaous interpretation of the story. If you read it closely, the writer suggested that as a possible theory.

2. This morning's paper, Andy McPhail said as fact that the issue is not Angelos. With a guy like McPhail running things, I think you'll see pretty quickly if/when Angelos meddles - McPhail will be gone, he doesn't need this.

3. McPhail and Angelos have history, which is why AM came here. He said at the time that he would not have come unless he has complete authority over the baseball operations of the team. Hence #2 if Angelos interferes.

By the way, the best most informed Os forum is Orioles Hangout at http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Check out the stats, they have tons more people online and messages posted than all the top Ravens forums combined! It's unreal.

But my reason for posting, was to correct the absurd statement of fact of the OP - Angelos has done a lot of stuff that has hurt the team, but you need to read the article again.

[RavensNTerps]

The way I see it, if the worst thing that happens out of this is Bedard re-upping for 5 years, then I just dont' see how it's a bad thing.

Why trade a proven commodity for 4 unproven commodities? There aren't sure things in baseball...

[HoustonRaven]

Lets count the number of talented pitchers we groom and then let walk out the door ....

Curt Shilling
Mike Mussina
David Wells
Kevin Brown

.... I know Im leaving a bunch out but Im depressed already.

[HoustonRaven]

Ken Rosenthal was just on OTL on ESPN.

His was talking about the Bedard trade and added that he thinks Roberts will be gone as well. He then made an odd comment, IMO ....

He said all this gutting will make the Orioles BETTER then when they had Miggy, Bedard and Roberts all on the same team.

Am I the only person that thinks he is nuts???

[Fcowher]

Well the only problem is the O's sucked with those guys. So maybe with some talented youth, some return to fundamentally strong baseball, some pitching, and some hustle the O's could be the slightest bit better.

[Greg]

Lets count the number of talented pitchers we groom and then let walk out the door ....

Curt Shilling
Mike Mussina
David Wells
Kevin Brown

Shilling was traded with CF Finley and pitcher Harnish for Glenn Davis. A terrible, horrible trade but they didn't just leave for more money.

We didn't groom Wells, we got him well into his career and Brown was also gotten after he had began to establish himself.

Mussina is the only one mentioned that was groomed and then left here with nothing in return.

[festivus]

I don't claim to be an O's guy, but:

Ben McDonald
Scott Erickson
Jamie Moyer

Erickson if I remember correctly we gave a big extension to right before his arm disintegrated. Not sure.

Greg?

[Rochardrik]

Ken Rosenthal was just on OTL on ESPN.

His was talking about the Bedard trade and added that he thinks Roberts will be gone as well. He then made an odd comment, IMO ....

He said all this gutting will make the Orioles BETTER then when they had Miggy, Bedard and Roberts all on the same team.

Am I the only person that thinks he is nuts???

This is NOT nuts.. WE had Roberts, Miggy and Bedard.... and who else? Jay waste Gibbons as a clean-up hitter? Huff ? Atrocious middle relief. Mora's best seasons were 3 years ago...Daniel Cabrera? Need I go on?

[Greg]

Ben McDonald
Scott Erickson
Jamie Moyer
Erickson did indeed meltdown with injuries about halfway through his extension. Ben McDonald was an adequate at best starter for a few years after leaving here, we failed to develop him. Moyer wasn't groomed here, he was established before arriving. We shouldn't have let Moyer get away, however, he started to blossom toward the end of his time here and was very good for Seattle for years after.

[HoustonRaven]

Greg is indeed a wealth of O's knowledge ...

I forgot about Scotty E. That's one dark dude. He used to hang out in Canton a lot and if the dude had one peice of clothing that wasnt black, I'd be shocked.

He loved his vodka, too!

[highwater]

Lets count the number of talented pitchers we groom and then let walk out the door ....

Curt Shilling
Mike Mussina
David Wells
Kevin Brown

While I don't disagree with the general mood of this thread, I have to say these examples don't advance the argument -- we didn't "groom" David Wells or Kevin Brown, who came here as free agents from other teams. I'll agree about Mussina, which was a classic Angelos screwup, and I semi-agree about Schilling, although he came from the Red Sox, not from our farm system.

Syd Twit's midseason trades from a few years back bugged me the most -- we got NOTHING from the B.J. Surhoff trade. Nothing but stiffs that never amounted to anything.

[HoustonRaven]

While I don't disagree with the general mood of this thread, I have to say these examples don't advance the argument -- we didn't "groom" David Wells or Kevin Brown, who came here as free agents from other teams. I'll agree about Mussina, which was a classic Angelos screwup, and I semi-agree about Schilling, although he came from the Red Sox, not from our farm system.

Syd Twit's midseason trades from a few years back bugged me the most -- we got NOTHING from the B.J. Surhoff trade. Nothing but stiffs that never amounted to anything.

I guess groom was the bad word to use ... more so reflecting on the talent we had at pitching and *poof* its gone.

[purplepoe]

How about John Maine.

He's up in NY pitching well and was a freakin throw in in the the Julio/Benson deal.

As Greg stated above, many SPs listed on this thread were FA pickups that went on to greener pastures. We now have a stud lefty who wants out and a suitor in Seattle who is willing to give up some good talent for him. Remember, we're gonna get what will be on parfor Bedard what the Twins got for Santana who is the best pitcher in baseball. I've heard some people compare Bedard and Santana. What a joke. Bedard has never thrown 200 innings in a year. Does he have nasty stuff? Absolutely. But remember, it's not like he's a 24 or 25 year old guy. He'll be 29 in a month. Take a look at Santana's past 4 seasons. It's mind boggling in this day of the HR.

Bedard and Roberts need to be dealt. We are losing 90-100 games with or without them and they are both gonna bolt after the 09 season.

This whole talk about extending Bedard is just that. Talk.

Angelos hates giving SPs long deals (see Erickson) and Bedard isn't signing one here unless that offer is so outlandish that he'd be foolish not to sign. Im talking 5 years at 100 million plus. And that certainly isn't happening.

This team is gonna stink for the next 2-3 years with or without these 2 guys. We need to get value now for them and McPhail knows it. Hell, everyone does.

The hole has been dug. And dug some more. And dug some more.

It's gonna take many years and many solid moves to get out of it.

PP

[highwater]

I've heard some people compare Bedard and Santana. What a joke.

I don't know who those people are, but if they aren't close friends or relatives of Bedard, then they're a little crazy. Bedard's good but he's not in Santana's league -- has Bedard even won 15 games in a season?

And maybe this shoudn't matter, but Bedard appears to be a prick. Maybe he's not, maybe his teammates like him, but he comes across as a thouroughly unlikeable guy.

If they can pick up some quality young talent for him, I wish they would pull the trigger and make a deal. I don't even care if they suck next year, at least we would have some reason to have hope for the future.

[purplepoe]

I don't know who those people are, but if they aren't close friends or relatives of Bedard, then they're a little crazy. Bedard's good but he's not in Santana's league -- has Bedard even won 15 games in a season?

And maybe this shoudn't matter, but Bedard appears to be a prick. Maybe he's not, maybe his teammates like him, but he comes across as a thouroughly unlikeable guy.

If they can pick up some quality young talent for him, I wish they would pull the trigger and make a deal. I don't even care if they suck next year, at least we would have some reason to have hope for the future.

I heard it on the radio today. The comparisons that is.

Nobody is in Santana's league.

And yes, Bedard is a prick. Pretty much every reporter acknowledges it.

Now, he might just be introverted and not like dealing with the media. But whatever it is, it comes off badly.

Not winning doesn't help. There are a lot of surly guys in that locker room.

You don't have to worry about them sucking next year. They are gonna be very bad no matter what moves they make.

They will be looking up at TB in the standings at the end of the year.

And if they do indeed move Bedard and Roberts, I'd say 100+ losses isn't out of the question.

PP