Ravens Draft 08: Which way is up ?

[ravenmad71]

Given the early look at the possible draft options for the Ravens holding the 8th selection in the 1st round, unless there is a player the Ravens really covet to trade up into the top 5 it seems as if there right on the outside of the players would warrant/worthy of there current selection at #8. Ryan, Long, Ellis, Gholston, Dorsey. With good CB/DE are in abundance the option to fall back is worth considering. What would you say is the best way to go????

A. Trade up

B. Stay and make selection at #8

C. Trade down between 10-15 selection of the 1st round and acquire a addtional pick(s)

[Dade]

I think we should stay with the number 8 pick. But my gut thinks we just might trade down to mid 1st round and pick up some additional picks.

[UKRavenStockers]

I'd prefer to trade back to the 10-15 range but don't see any viable suitors at present. Wouldn't want to trade up unless Chris Long falls all the way to five or something ridiculous like that, but there's no need to trade up for any of the talents, we don't need any of them that much that you give up our 2nd round pick as well.

I think we'll stick at #8 tbh.

[TheExtraPoint]

I've felt from the day that I saw the draft order that barring someone taking an unforeseen slide (Glenn Dorsey is not out of the question here), the Ravens are moving off the 8th pick.

In my mind, if Matt Ryan gets passed on by the Falcons, and the Ravens can get a reasonable offer from the Raiders to leapfrog the Chiefs, we're going to make that move. He's too good a performer at a position that has simply killed us for so long to not pursue him seriously, especially in such close striking distance.

I have an uninformed feeling Eric Decosta loves this kid. And remember, the Raiders might find it appealing to keep a player they don't need but whom many like, out of the hands of the division-rival, quarterback starved Chiefs. That might shrink the price-tag for a small jump up the board.

Otherwise, I expect we'll take advantage of a draft that looks to be deepest in the middle rounds by moving down and stockpiling picks. Especially considering the desperate need for improving the young depth on this roster.

In the P.T.I. style of oddsmaking, I'd say 65% chance we pick somewhere other than #8 on draft day. I think the Ravens know they need to be efficiently aggressive this off-season, and I think they will be, both in the draft and in free agency. I'm pumped.

[HoustonRaven]

NO cap room to move up. Period.

We are staying put unless someone comes to us with an absurd request.

[jonboy79]

TEP, I have to agree. All of that seems reasonable. I think, if need be, Bal would be happy to walk away with Ryan at 4, and moving on to day 2. I could imagine that OAK could feel pretty safe to have their pick of Clady and Ellis at 8. It makes sense.

Houston, Ryan at 4 is about the same cap room as Brohm at 8 and Mario Manningham at 39... or insert whomever you would like.

[HoustonRaven]

Houston, Ryan at 4 is about the same cap room as Brohm at 8 and Mario Manningham at 39... or insert whomever you would like.

IMO, all signs point to us making room for one big signing without moving up in the draft. We simply dont have the cap room this year to make a Snyder-like splash in the FA market. SB has said publicly he believes we have a solid core of players right now so I dont think we're going to make any huge moves.

That leaves us with the draft. How can you say "its the same cap room" when we dont even know who we will sign or for how much?

To deal up to 4 would mostly likely mean giving up future draft picks. No thanks. I dont think SB wants that and is trying to mimic teams like the Steelers, Pats, Colts, etc when it comes to cap mamagement. Just because we can do something, doesnt mean we will do it. Moving up is the perfect example.

We will take the best player available at 8 unless we get a good deal from another team.

[Gabrosin]

I don't see us moving in front of KC to get Ryan if he falls past Atlanta (which I don't see happening anyway). We would sit tight at 8 and hope he makes it the rest of the way. The biggest obstacle would be if a team swaps with NE at 7 to come up and get Ryan at that point (Chicago and Carolina would seem the likeliest contenders).

We do seem to be just outside the elite prospect range. I count Chris Long, Jake Long, Matt Ryan, Vernon Gholston, Darren McFadden, Glenn Dorsey, and Sedrick Ellis, as it stands right now. While it's not out of the question that one of these seven could make it to eight, it would be a surprise. Plus, one of them (McFadden) would probably only induce us to trade down with another team that wants a RB. I don't think our team would really be helped by drafting Dorsey or Ellis, given the talents of Gregg and Ngata on the D-line, but if we had a talented big man in line behind Trevor Pryce it can't hurt.

What's more likely to happen is for us to have our pick of the CBs. Leodis McKelvin, Aqib Talib, Mike Jenkins, and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie would all be in the discussion. We all saw what happened when our aging corners were out last year and we can't afford for our defense to fall apart if one of them gets injured again. Samari Rolle won't be with us for too much longer and none of our young guys have shown well enough to take his place. Maybe Harbaugh and the new coaching staff will turn one or more of them into a capable NFL player, but I seem to remember us signing a practice-squad guy and immediately thrusting him in as a starter... what does THAT say about the confidence level Rex Ryan has in these young guys?

If we take a CB in round one we'll probably draft a QB in round two. It's possible Ryan will be the only QB taken in the first round. Brohm, Woodson, Flacco, Henne... all have question marks on them. If they're deemed to high to be taken by Chicago or Carolina, they would likely begin a freefall towards the second round. One of the QB-needy teams, including Baltimore, might look to deal up into the bottom of the first to get their choice, but after dealing back into the first to get Boller a few years ago I don't know that we'd be anxious to repeat that maneuver.

I think we have two ideal draft scenarios. One is that Matt Ryan falls to #8, we take him and grab the best available CB or OT in round two... both positions seem very deep in this draft. The second is that we take our choice of the CB class in round one and then pick up Brian Brohm in the second without having to move up. I think Brohm is being heavily devalued right now and would be a great addition to the Ravens. He is accurate and smart with the football... we don't need another big arm with accuracy issues (I'm looking at you, Andre Woodson and Joe Flacco). I'm concerned about Brohm's injury history but to get someone like him at the top of the second or even the bottom of the first would be a steal.

[ExiledRaven]

I think the Ravens stand pat unless someone falls in love with Mendenhall or McFadden falls and no one wants to trade with NE.

I think NE is going to hose us here: they'll want the same type of player, and they will also be in position to trade around before the Ravens if someone drops.

Anyhow, there are the players that seem to be options at 8

Brian Brohm (I don't like him at 8)
Leodis McKelvin
DRC (is he too raw to take this high?)
Mike Jenkins
Ryan Clady
Vernon Gholston
Derrick Harvey
Sedrick Ellis


I'm not sure who I like at the moment. As far as the second round, if Mario Manningham is there, I don't see how the team can avoid taking him. From the looks of things, it's probably going to be CB or pass-rush for the first round. Second round, don't automatically pencil in QB again, I could easily see a later round guy or Johnson in the third.

Time will tell

[factmeister]

I've got a feeling that Coach John has been talking to coach Jim about about a certain QB with supposed Donavon McNabb potential.
I know that the talent at the East West shrine game is way below the Senior Bowl,but he completely dominated the game.
He was like a man playing with boys in winning the MVP award.
Furthermore,his 4.45 speed is off the charts.
As far as his frame is concerned,he will fill out as he gets older (and hits the weights as Tom Brady did).
I believe that he is close to 6-3.
If,as Billy Beane said "you build for championships",then you can forget Troy Smith.
The odds are just too long that he will become the first short QB ever to win it all.
As Donavon McNabb made Andy Reid,so this kid may make John Harbaugh.
The interesting fact is that John really knows.
I purposely didn't mention his name because I didn't want to jinx it.
I hope that John or Jim are as evasive as possible until after the draft.
I could be way off base,but you never know.

[bmore finest]

I for one only hopes, Gholston drops to 8. The only player i hope is left there. Otherwise, Trade down to still get a corner in the first round. Gholston is a beast, And would love for him to be a raven.

But i would only draft a corner in the first round anyway. At eight or below. If Gholston is gone. Rolle and CMac needs help. We were the top team to throw deep on last season.

I wouldn't draft a QB second round. I would have to get a CB or DE here. We need both so i'm guessing first two picks on D. Maybe a WR if Cam thinks he need another. But wait to the 4th round for a QB. Let Troy get a shot this season. Ride this season out, And go after next year's draft top QB. Much more Cap to make a move.

Overall, I would love to be able to trade down in the first round.

[The Fanatic]

I've got a feeling that Coach John has been talking to coach Jim about about a certain QB with supposed Donavon McNabb potential.
I know that the talent at the East West shrine game is way below the Senior Bowl,but he completely dominated the game.
He was like a man playing with boys in winning the MVP award.
Furthermore,his 4.45 speed is off the charts.
As far as his frame is concerned,he will fill out as he gets older (and hits the weights as Tom Brady did).
I believe that he is close to 6-3.
If,as Billy Beane said "you build for championships",then you can forget Troy Smith.
The odds are just too long that he will become the first short QB ever to win it all.
As Donavon McNabb made Andy Reid,so this kid may make John Harbaugh.
The interesting fact is that John really knows.
I purposely didn't mention his name because I didn't want to jinx it.
I hope that John or Jim are as evasive as possible until after the draft.
I could be way off base,but you never know.

Little back round on your boy here.
Regardless of what division or level you play in at college, this is some impressive stuff.

"Finished his career as the Toreros' all-time leader with a 176.68 passing efficiency rating... Completed 724-of-1,065 passes (.680) for 9,699 yards and 113 touchdowns (with just 15 picks)...Finished with 1,864 yards rushing on 307 attempts (6.1 avg.) with 19 career rushing scores. As a three-year starter for the Toreros he was 30-4 and led San Diego to two Mid-Major Sports Network championships and three PFL conference titles. He finished with 11,563 yards of total offense."

Have no idea how good of an NFL calibre QB he'd be, but if he's got the smarts, he's definitely got the physical skills to be an absolute nightmare to opposing defenses.

Intersting prospect to say the least.

I'm personally from the school of trading down this year if the right suiter presents itself.

No freakin' way we move up regardless of what is happening.
I'd be shocked if we did.
It would be real nice if one or two of the top guys fell a little prompting somebody to want to move up.

Dropping back a little in the first to still be able to grab one of the corners, and maybe gain an additional 2nd round or gain a third rounder would be ideal for us.

Not too sure how they feel about the next level of QBs after Ryan, but I get the feeling they view the majority of them as similar as far as value is concerned.
If one of these guys is around when they make the round 2 pick it wouldn't surprise me to see them pull the trigger not wanting their guy to get taken before they pick in round 3 if they can acquire that pick via a trade down.

Seems to me that the majority of the Ravens drafts in past years we always end up with a guy that was never really linked to us in all the pre-draft speculation.

Your theory on the Ravens being hush hush only lends itself to maybe actually eye balling the QB in discussion here.
When you look at all the pre-draft stuff the dude is never really mentioned by anybody which is rather surprising given he has pretty good size at 6'3", and has extremely impressive numbers to boot.

Can't wait to see this all unfiold!!:thumbup:

[ExiledRaven]

I'd be inclined to give the kid a big shot.

His 1 interception this past year....bounced off his TE's chest. Can't do much about that one.

I'd love to see Johnson be a Raven, but, unfortunately, there is no high third to use on him. This might be where some trading happens if they really want to line him up.

Also, and better, Johnson worked from under center and in the gun in college, so he's all ready to go from a basic fundamentals of a system approach as compared with so many of the zone-read or shotgun spread QBs.

The harbaugh connection is huge.

Also, some other connections of interest
FL defensive coordinator/line coach is our Lb guy - ....Harvey is coming out and might be selected #8
Michigan offensive line coach - Jake long won't reach the Ravens...but Chad Henne, Mario Manningham, and Mike Hart are all quality guys he's had experience coaching.

[ravenwoman]

Unless someone is truly outstanding at 8, I would try to trade down and gather picks. I look for New England to trade down at 7 as well. That's how they replenish their team every year and not pay the big contracts, except to a very few select players.

[Gabrosin]

But if there's no one outstanding left at eight, we're not going to have anyone interested in trading up. Our best hope would be that McFadden drops to eight and some team like the Cowboys offers a king's ransom to go up and get him from us. Then we could pick up extra picks this year and/or next year and still grab a first-round CB, or take our QB of choice near the end of the first rather than the beginning.

[shaslers]

Brian Brohm (I don't like him at 8)
Leodis McKelvin
DRC (is he too raw to take this high?)
Mike Jenkins
Ryan Clady
Vernon Gholston
Derrick Harvey
Sedrick Ellis



Gholsten is a no-brainer on that list. You take him.

If Gholsten is gone, Clady is probably the pick, but I have him going to KC at five.

Ellis doesn't fit the scheme. With the Bengals set to pick behind the Ravens, and seeing how they just got snookered by the Browns in their attempt to address the D Line, the Ravens could be in a good spot to lure someone else up to eight, ahead of the Bengals, to pick Ellis.

That, and McFadden, would be the two scenarios for trading back. But slim.

I do think there is a small chance Ryan falls to the Ravens because I don't see Miami taking him, and I think Atlanta may be picking too high to "risk" taking Ryan. You can imagine Jake Long, Glenn Dorsey, and Chris Long going 1-2-3. If that happens, Ryan falls to the Ravens.

If Ryan, Gholsten, and Clady are all gone, and no one offers value to trade up, than Talib is the pick -- or whatever corner they rate the highest.

[highwater]

But if there's no one outstanding left at eight, we're not going to have anyone interested in trading up.

This is exactly what I think too -- it's not that easy to trade out of the top ten. I'd like to trade down and collect some extra picks, but I don't think it will happen. Unless a player that is high on some team's board happens to still be available at eight, no one will trade up.

BTW, I can't imagine McFadden still being on the board, and I can't see the Falcons passing on Ryan.

[shaslers]

I can't see the Falcons passing on Ryan.

But with Mike Smith as the new coach there is less urgency to fix everything at once. He's a defensive line guy. With Long or Dorsey there at three probably it may be too much of a sure thing for the Falcons to pass up the chance to anchor their front seven.

[HoustonRaven]

Ryan will not fall to us. No sense even thinking about that. :insane:

[Rxdoxx]

This is exactly what I think too -- it's not that easy to trade out of the top ten. I'd like to trade down and collect some extra picks, but I don't think it will happen. Unless a player that is high on some team's board happens to still be available at eight, no one will trade up.


I don't think we are moving either.
McFadden is the only possibility that we could get a decent offer for, but won't know that until we are on the clock.

I DO think we will have trade down offers, but they will come from teams somewhere in the 20's, and not sure we want to drop that far down (unless maybe there is a #1 next year involved), just seems to be another drop off happening in the draft when the 20's are reached.

I also have seen too many "feeding frenzys" happen... a position (like CB or WR) is ignored for what seems like a too-long while, and then bang, 4 or 5 are taken almost in a row. I expect to see this happen with CB in this draft.
And I also am guessing at a NE move. They now need a CB, and with the pool, I can see them willing to move down to mid-range, so I have no guess as to who will leapfrog up past us, but I know we will miss whoever appears to be dropping into our lap with this scenario, and I consider it a likely thing to happen.

Again, only trade-able pick I see falling to us is McFadden, and even then I'm not sure we wouldn't just take him as "by far the best player left on the board" - remember Anderson is gone and Musa is now in limbo land, so while it is not a big 'need' we do have a use for a 2nd quality back. Not that I particularily want to see that, but I can see it being done with the drafting philosophy from the past.