Preston on the 1st and 2nd rounds

[Mista T]

In a nutshell (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-preston321,0,4662368.column):

- there isn't a Chris McAlister type CB at #8, and QB Matt Ryan and OTs Jake Long or Ryan Clady may not fall to #8

- "Fans in Baltimore want a quarterback they can call their own. After numerous failures, the Ravens could have one more chance to right a long-standing wrong." Flacco, Henne, or Brohm


Preston doesn't predict what we'll do with the #8 pick, but his piece makes a good argument for the position that I would like to see Oz take on draft day: if there's a decent trade to be made, trade down.

[jonboy79]

I have no issue with that. Assuming that Chris Long, Glenn Dorsey and Matt Ryan are all gone at 8, by all means pursue a trade down. If value is poor and McKelvin is still on the board, I can imagine they will select him. Eric DeCosta is very high on him, and seems to rank him as the top corner this year, especially in terms of Man coverage and return abilities.

[RavenScallywag]

Given that there seems to be 4 highly touted CB prospects (Talib, Cromartie, McKelvin, Jenkins) available in the middle of Round 1, trading down would be awesome. Leodis is definitley our #1 choice at CB, but I'd be happy with any of the 4. And then target Flacco or Brohm in round 2. One will be there or I will eat my hat.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Trading down would be without question the best option here.

There are reallly only 3 players I would take without hesitation at 8...Jake and Chris Long and Matt Ryan.

Other than those guys, while there are other players that are worth the 8 slot, I don't think most are significantly better than guys you can get there later on in the draft.

I think getting an extra 2 and or 3 and another second day pick or 2 would be brilliant...this is a deep draft but only 3 players who are truly elite IMO...The 2 Longs and McFadden.

[Purpleguy]

Trading down is a great idea, however if a team with as many holes as the Ravens have can't find value at #8 what makes anyone think another team would want to pay up for the pick. The only way the Ravens are going to get good value for a trade is if one of those coveted players are still on the board and we decide to pass on them.

[duffybr]

A team may trade up just like Cle and san fran last year. A quality player that fits a need. I think that NE will get the trade up action before we do. They do need a corner and may see trading exactly like we do.

[jburns]

It is a full moon tonight- that is the only explanation for my agreement with everyone on this thread and even freaking Mike Preston. Weird:187734: :beer1: :iagree: :ire:

[AZRAVEN]

:confused: Ok, stupid question... Is there a set formula for what you get for trading up/down in the draft or is it whatever the trading partner is willing to pay?

[The Fanatic]

:confused: Ok, stupid question... Is there a set formula for what you get for trading up/down in the draft or is it whatever the trading partner is willing to pay?

Yes and yes.

There is a Point Value System (http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/draft_point_value_chart.htm) used by the NFL to determine draft pick value, but that doesn't always mean they'll stick by it.
Some definitely will, while others may be willing to give more or take less depending on how bad a team covets a player they may be targeting.

To me, trading down is the best option here.
I said the same thing a couple months ago as well.

Problem here as Purpleguy said is hoping some other team is willing to trade up.
There is no way either of the Longs or Ryan fall to #8.
After that, is Dorsey or Cedric Ellis which are both great players, but I think we have bigger needs then what those two fill.
We need a true DE, CB, QB and OT.
I'm not too sure a DT or a hybrid type LB/DE would be the way to go at #8 if one were to fall there, but if Ozzie sticks to the BPA, then one of those two might be a Raven.

With out a doubt this draft for us is going to be real interesting to watch.

I think they really like Flacco, but I'm not too sure he's there in round 2 when we pick.

[jonboy79]

I'm thinking this concept is gaining steam, as it gains in realism. The 5-10 picks are fleshing themselves out, and are placing themselves at a premium over the players in the 11=20 area, as was not previously seen. IN the last 2 months we have seen a significant rise from Ryan, Gholseten, Ellis and McKelivin. This has increased the value of our #8 pick, as at least one of the above will be available.

[Rxdoxx]

There is a Point Value System (http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/draft_point_value_chart.htm) used by the NFL to determine draft pick value, but that doesn't always mean they'll stick by it.
Some definitely will, while others may be willing to give more or take less depending on how bad a team covets a player they may be targeting.

To me, trading down is the best option here.


The only thing I have trouble with in the Point Value System, is how do you figure in a next year's pick? Any thoughts on how to factor this?

Would we take a 2 & 3 and a #1 next year?? No way to really know the value of a next year pick since the position is a guess.
Sporting News just had an article on how hard it is becoming to trade down from a high pick due to the amount of cap committment which can cripple a team if it is a wrong guess.
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=373217


Trades are a unique thing in the first round anymore because of the cost of the top 10 picks financially," says Colts president Bill Polian. "To take on that cost, and then give up something to do it, is almost counterintuitive. And that's clearly not what the draft was designed to be. The draft was designed to either allow the weakest teams based on record to choose the best players, or if they choose not to take a particular player, to gather a bunch of picks to further accelerate their growth and competitiveness. That's been skewed completely by the cost of the top 15 picks.

"If I'm after the first pick and I have to pay $30 million for it, how much do I want to give up in addition to that? And if you fail with that pick, your franchise is saddled with an albatross that you can't get rid of for who knows how long."


So, I'm not holding much hope for us trading down

[jonboy79]

Typically a future pick is "valued" at HALF of what the value is of your idea of their expected finish. Thus, last year, when CLE traded their firs this year for Brady Quinn, conventional wisdom would say they traded a pick half as valuable as a top 5 pick.

[HoustonRaven]

The reason we're agreeing with Preston is because many of those same thoughts in his column are the very same things we have been saying for the past month on these very boards. Preston is a hack.

No way we trade up. No cap room and not enough high end talent to warrant such a move. We will get quality and value at 8. I agree with those how say we are looking at Flacco.

[Mikerobe]

I'm definitely if favor of seeing the team trade down. There are too many holes to fill and overall team depth needs to be upgraded. The more picks to accomplish that goal the better.

http://mvn.com/nfl-ravens/

[ravenwoman]

Trading down is a nice thought. However, you have to find a compatable trading partner. I gather we would want to move up in the second round, in order to get Joe Flacco, or move back in the first round, and get Joe Flacco. Unless Matt Ryan falls to 8, which most experts (like Mel Kiper) are saying won't happen, then who at 8 is really worth it? What happens if we are stuck and can't move out of 8? I don't think any of the CB's are worthy of the eighth slot in the draft.

[highwater]

Preston is a hack.

Simply stated and totally accurate. Preston sucks -- I stopped reading his crap a long time ago, and the only reason I'm paying any attention to this thread is because it's the offseason and we are bored out of our skulls.

But as bored as I am, and as hungry as I am for news about the Ravens, I still didn't read Preston's column. The guy just sucks.

[Purpleguy]

I think they really like Flacco, but I'm not too sure he's there in round 2 when we pick.

I really like Flacco as well, but there is no way i would touch him before the second round. The kid is a beast, but he is also a project. With our current o-line and receivers I wouldn't expect much better results than what Boller has given us. We currently don't have a receiver that can utilize his arm strength. You also have to keep in mind that the kid only threw one TD against Towson. Like Boller, Flacco has tons of raw talent, and Like boller he is going to need the tools to realize that talent in the NFL.

[duffybr]

Grubbs is good but certainly not the best guard in the NFL and Clady hasn't played a down in NFL so I say slow down on the hall of fame plans,

Clady scored pretty low on the wonderlic and I think maybe the LT needs to be pretty smart. I know JO is extremely smart.
I thought Gaither was supposed to be a natural LT and alot of posts put him at RT.
I also thought Terry would be starting LT if JO retires and alot of posts have him backing up.
Wouldn't drafting a RT be less expensive and allow us to use the personnel we have more effectively.
I am assuming aa good RT would be available later in the draft, would sign for less and would be more likely to start sooner than a drafted LT?

[UKRavenStockers]

Gaither played both LT and RT at Maryland and played both fairly well when he had his head screwed on, it's just a matter of concentration an application with Gaither. If you get him to get his head down and concentrate then he's got all the physical attributes to be an absolute monster at left tackle. He combined with Terry being more than decent as a left tackle is the reason why I'm not really up on the idea of taking a guy like Clady at #8, it doesn't strike me as an especially pressing need.

I'm not a Matt Ryan fan but if he was to fall to us at #8 then a good first three rounds for me would be:

1) Matt Ryan - Can we pass on him? I personally don't think he's worth the hype but we'll see.
2) Gosder Cherilus - Slot in straight away at right tackle, slide Yanda inside.
3) Charles Godfrey - Hoping for a comp pick here for Adalius' departure, Godfrey is a tremendously versatile player and played corner and safety at Iowa as well as being an excellent contributor on special teams. Adds more depth at corner and gives Harbaugh more weapons on ST coverage.

Now that's not my ideal day one (well, old day one), but if we were to get Ryan (not my first choice) then I wouldn't be upset with that outcome from the first 3 rounds.

[camdenyard]

HARB already said he will have a big, tough and physical line. A line of Clady, Grubbs, Chester, Brown and Gaither would be it.

Chester - big, tough and physical? Are you kidding?

[jonboy79]

I'm warming up to drafting an OT, sliding Yanda inside and moving Brown. It has to be all at once though, before this season starts. I think Yanda is a capable RT, but could be even better as a guard/ Securing a guy liek Cherlius would certainly allow us to make this move.
Starting
Terry, Grubbs, Brown, Yanda, Cherilus would be nice
Gaither, Chester.................., Gaither
Cherilus, ............................, Yanda is good depth as well.
Add one more interior guy to the mix, could be Rimpf, Ndukwe, or a guy like Crummey, and I think we have the makings of a deep solid line for years to come.