C-Mac & Ravens --What would you do ???

[ravenmad71]

This sitation with C-Mac and Harbaugh has caught all Ravens fans interest to say the least. It looks as though Chris has ran a foul with JH be it in his play or attitude pure speculation but the truth is in here somewhere ) Assuming things stay luke warm at best between him and the organzation, the Ravens and McAlsiter COULD part ways this summer, or for the sake of this thread. If so are the Ravens best option be to:

A. Trade McAlister for a player ex McAlister for Boldin (Assuming $$ worked out

B. Trade for draft pick(s).. Depending up whether to accept a high single pick or lower multiple picks.

C. Everyone gives hugs and Ravens and C-Mac break bread for another season.

[Mwjergs]

This is the second part to hiring a new coach.

You allow that coach to get his "guys' in place. McAlister has had issues in the past and he is clearly on the downside of his career and makes plenty of money. If the Ravens current corners can do a nice job he could be moved for picks or a top WR.

I am expecting to see more moves over the next season to be rid of some of the undisciplined actions of players on and off the field and new players being brought in.

[Fanman]

Did anyone hear the full story about why he was benched?

Something on NST this AM led me to believe he was out partying the night before the game.

I would trade him for draft picks or a #1 WR if possible. I highly doubt AZ would make that trade unless it included cash and a draft pick from us.

FM

[Losac]

Hey, if that story is true (partying the night before the game), then Harbs has balls of steel for benching him like that. I mean, C-Mac is by far better than Frank Walker, and to bench the better player in favor of Walker takes guts. I do wonder, however, if he would have made the same decision if Miami had a top receiver like Ocho Stinko or Marvin Harrison.

As for what to do, Harbs is going to have to get "his guys" in place, as has been mentioned. If C-Mac is not going to get onboard his program, then the team should try to trade him. Plenty of teams would give up a decent amount (picks or even a top player) in exchange for a good corner like C-Mac.

[Gwaihir]

How can we possibly answer this without knowing what C-Mac did? Without knowing the facts of the situation, it seems pretty silly say what we would do?

I have to hand it to Harbaugh, though. Do you think Billick would have been able to keep everybody in the dark this long? Frankly, I'm amazed nothing has come to light as of yet except the company line! It shows me Harbs has total control of the team, even more than I thought he had!

[HoustonRaven]

Agreed about Harbs and his balls of steel.

He needs to get his guys on the team -- players who will mold to his style, not the other way around. It's encouraging to see players like Ray have been able to adapt. It's a shame that CMac, at least on the surface, hasnt been able to adapt.

Oh well and be gone with ya if you dont want to get on board with Harbs' new direction.

[underwriter]

I just think it was based on his lack of practice and his performance in the INDY game. This is what i love about Harbaugh....he is not going to play favorites. I personally think CMAC will play this week and should have a big game.

:word

UW:laugh:

[Lee Van Cleef]

Without knowing more about what's going on I'm not sure about this kind of speculation. That said according to the resident cap expert on the Scout forum, if McAllister was released next year he would generate an $8mill space in the salary cap, the biggest such amount on the team.

IF things did go down that road. I'm not saying they will.

[purplepoe]

McAlister isn't gonna fetch a top notch WR in a trade.

He will fetch a pick or two but nothing very high.

PP

[camdenyard]

I think we have to get through the year, see how Harbaugh's system of discipline works and go from there. If you will recall, Billick went through a similar phase with CMac and he straightened up. This could be no more than a guy testing the limits and getting burned.

[Jeremiah W]

I love the fact that Harbs has told us all basically nothing, about anything but team. team and more team. If he puts a guy on the feild it is a team first move. Best 11 guys, for that given situation. Over 30 club unscheduled day off.

Not as fancy as proverbs parameters and profiles, but I like it.

We can just keep guessing, but I think it has to do with the fact than C-Mac got scorched by Indy. He was not playing the way I would think they told him to.

He is still having an all pro type season so far. 1 HOF wr had a good game with 2 tdson his watch, but he has 3 picks and a fumble recovery, and has shut down the other Wrs he faced for the most part.

If he goes out and plays well this week and the rest of the year, I doubt anyone will remember to ask why he did not play much in a win.

[Fanman]

Not a bad read.....somebody isn't coming clean here:

http://ravens24x7.blogspot.com/2008/10/ravens-v-mcalister-whos-lying-now.html

FM

[purplepoe]

Cmac insisting at every chance possible that his knee is fine is his way of putting the screws to Harbaugh. It just fuels the fire.

Basically you've got a guy who wants to do whatever he wants butting heads with a new coach who isn't gonna tolerate it.

PP

[StingerNLG]

Not a bad read.....somebody isn't coming clean here:

http://ravens24x7.blogspot.com/2008/10/ravens-v-mcalister-whos-lying-now.html

FM

You don't keep C-Mac off the field unless there is something wrong, physical or otherwise. You just don't bench your best cornerback, and arguably one of the premier cornerbacks in the league, unless there is something we don't know.

These defensive players have an awful hard time admitting they are hurt. McAlister isn't setting precident here with this.

[RAVENOUS52]

I would just send C-Mac to bed without any supper and take away his television privileges.

[TTRaven]

A. Trade McAlister for a player ex McAlister for Boldin (Assuming $$ worked out

The Ravens would have to add at least a first round pick along with Cmac to even get the Cardinals talking. No team is going to trade much for a CB on the downside of his career.

[Losac]

We can just keep guessing, but I think it has to do with the fact than C-Mac got scorched by Indy. He was not playing the way I would think they told him to.

He is still having an all pro type season so far. 1 HOF wr had a good game with 2 tdson his watch, but he has 3 picks and a fumble recovery, and has shut down the other Wrs he faced for the most part.


God you make no sense. So he's having an "all-Pro type" season, yet has one bad game against a Hall of Fame receiver and suddenly you're going to bench your #1 corner in the middle of this "all Pro type" season because of this one bad showing?

There's more to this than Harbs is telling. Maybe our man on the inside, Mike Preston, can enlighten us since he has always liked airing out the team's dirty laundry in years past.

[Jeremiah W]

God you make no sense. So he's having an "all-Pro type" season, yet has one bad game against a Hall of Fame receiver and suddenly you're going to bench your #1 corner in the middle of this "all Pro type" season because of this one bad showing?

There's more to this than Harbs is telling. Maybe our man on the inside, Mike Preston, can enlighten us since he has always liked airing out the team's dirty laundry in years past.

Perhaps Harbs did not think C Mac was responding in a team first way to the coaching he got after the Indy game. I am just guessing as to why you would bench a guy who is having an all pro season and says he is healthy.

I think he is trying to send a message without saying exactly what it is. Team.

[purplepoe]

Some people still think this was a result of the Indy game?

Seriously?

PP

[POPSinPA]

Untill our super secret coach decides to tell us wtf is going on, how the hell can anyone speculate.
One thing I am pretty certain of, he wasn't benched for on field performance. If he was, then our new coach is an idiot.

[Mista T]

I expect to see McAlister back on the field this week.

[The Fanatic]

If you listened to Drew and Nestor at all today, you pretty much know this issue has virtually nothing to do with Mcallisters play on the field at Indy.

Harbaugh is not going to throw C-mac under the bus by calling him out in public, and exposing his dirty laundry.
What it appears Harbaugh is doing is stretching the truth to a certain extent.

When Harbaugh says something to the effect that they are putting out the best 11 guys, that doesn't necessarily mean at their positions.
It very well could mean the best 11 in his mind that have bought into his approach and team concept.

Apparently the riff between C-mac and Harbaugh started way back in the beginning of Harbaughs tenure here.

How far back, I don't know, but at least back to the beginning of training camp.
Apparently C-mac doesn't like the old school style of camp that Harbaugh employed this year and made no bones about making his feelings known.

Per drew yesterday, a certain ex Raven player who was a special teams standout here and was in camp this year but no longer plays for this team (I think he's talking about Stills)told Drew that C-mac said something to this effect referring to Harbaugh...
"Can we get this guy fired too because I'm not gonna be running around like this"

Apparently this didn't sit real well with Harbaugh, and the twos relationship hasn't been comfy cozy since.

Apparently something did happen in Indy but I don't think it was his play on the field.
Supposingly he missed some type of mandatory team meeting or function which raised the level of Harbaughs anger.
Unknown as to where he was, or what happened, but I suppose it very well may have affected his play on the field depending on where he was at and what he was doing.

Since day one Harbaugh has preached nothing but team, team, team ...... and has said that these road games are to be treated as business trips.

Apparently C-mac didn't get the messege real well, and came struttin' throughthe team hotel Sunday morning with 3 women in front of everybody including coorporate sponsors and many higher ups related to this organization that were all there on this trip.

No details were given, but you can only speculate what type of women these were at 9:00 in the morning on game day.

Listening to Nestor, this wasn't exactly the type of scene you want top team officials, corporate sponsors, etc. seeing from a member of the team that's suposed to be down there on a business trip.

Apparently many fans saw this as well and were texting Drew that they couldn't believe what they were seeing.

I say again, no details were given, but one can only assume and use their imagination.


Drew seems to think that this will be C-macs last year here.


I know alot of people don't like Nestor, WNST, etc. but they usually have their thumbs on what is Really going on over there and aren't afraid to tell the truth to the fullest extent they can without getting themselves in hot water with the team and their contacts.

Like I said earlier in this post, none of this is speculation on my part, I'm just putting out what these guys were saying since there seems to be folks still here that believe this benching is mainly due to his knee andb poor performance in Indy.

Something definitely ain't kosher over there at 1 winning drive right now and it's a real freakin' shame.

[GreenWave52]

If you listened to Drew and Nestor at all today, you pretty much know this issue has virtually nothing to do with Mcallisters play on the field at Indy.

Harbaugh is not going to throw C-mac under the bus by calling him out in public, and exposing his dirty laundry.
What it appears Harbaugh is doing is stretching the truth to a certain extent.

When Harbaugh says something to the effect that they are putting out the best 11 guys, that doesn't necessarily mean at their positions.
It very well could mean the best 11 in his mind that have bought into his approach and team concept.

Apparently the riff between C-mac and Harbaugh started way back in the beginning of Harbaughs tenure here.

How far back, I don't know, but at least back to the beginning of training camp.
Apparently C-mac doesn't like the old school style of camp that Harbaugh employed this year and made no bones about making his feelings known.

Per drew yesterday, a certain ex Raven player who was a special teams standout here and was in camp this year but no longer plays for this team (I think he's talking about Stills)told Drew that C-mac said something to this effect referring to Harbaugh...
"Can we get this guy fired too because I'm not gonna be running around like this"

Apparently this didn't sit real well with Harbaugh, and the twos relationship hasn't been comfy cozy since.

Apparently something did happen in Indy but I don't think it was his play on the field.
Supposingly he missed some type of mandatory team meeting or function which raised the level of Harbaughs anger.
Unknown as to where he was, or what happened, but I suppose it very well may have affected his play on the field depending on where he was at and what he was doing.

Since day one Harbaugh has preached nothing but team, team, team ...... and has said that these road games are to be treated as business trips.

Apparently C-mac didn't get the messege real well, and came struttin' throughthe team hotel Sunday morning with 3 women in front of everybody including coorporate sponsors and many higher ups related to this organization that were all there on this trip.

No details were given, but you can only speculate what type of women these were at 9:00 in the morning on game day.

Listening to Nestor, this wasn't exactly the type of scene you want top team officials, corporate sponsors, etc. seeing from a member of the team that's suposed to be down there on a business trip.

Apparently many fans saw this as well and were texting Drew that they couldn't believe what they were seeing.

I say again, no details were given, but one can only assume and use their imagination.


Drew seems to think that this will be C-macs last year here.


I know alot of people don't like Nestor, WNST, etc. but they usually have their thumbs on what is Really going on over there and aren't afraid to tell the truth to the fullest extent they can without getting themselves in hot water with the team and their contacts.

Like I said earlier in this post, none of this is speculation on my part, I'm just putting out what these guys were saying since there seems to be folks still here that believe this benching is mainly due to his knee andb poor performance in Indy.

Something definitely ain't kosher over there at 1 winning drive right now and it's a real freakin' shame.

Thanks for the post; that was good stuff. I don't totally trust local radio when it comes to these sorts of things. Their need to fill time with endless speculation and created witch hunts (the Ray Lewis witch hunt in particular infuriated me) hurts their credibility, but it looks like they are building an argument in this case.

Bottom line: if C-mac doesn't want to be here or isn't on board with the new staff then it is time for him to go. I really enjoyed his time here and I would wish him the best wherever he goes (provided it is out of the division). But we can't keep people like that no matter who they are.

Fortunately there is a silver lining in cutting/trading our #1 corner. McAlister is still good, but he is no longer a true #1 and is clearly on the downside of his career. The cap savings for unloading him would be $8MM and that would give us plenty of room to sign Ray and Suggs. I also think we should cut Rolle and save $4MM. Probably should cut Walker too and I think Ivy is a FA. Fabian Washington is the only one I would absolutely keep. I would sign some solid FA corners and draft 2 corners, one first day and one early second day. We need to rebuild that position from the ground up. What we have right now is too old, too injury prone, too short, too slow, or simply not good enough.

[highwater]

I think we have to get through the year, see how Harbaugh's system of discipline works and go from there. If you will recall, Billick went through a similar phase with CMac and he straightened up. This could be no more than a guy testing the limits and getting burned.

I totally agree with what camdenyard said -- this has happened before, and Billick put the hammer down on CMac and sent him home for a game in San Diego a few years back. Harbaugh is likely doing the same thing, only he's trying to keep it quiet. Which isn't going to work, since everyone is obviously wondering why CMac didn't start.

It will likely come out eventually, but for now they are trying to keep it in house, which is okay with me.

[RayRayHOF]

I can't believe everyone coming down on Harbs side of this issue. Too many people looking to say goodbye to C-Mac prematurely IMO.
The guy is still a top 5 CB in the league and has always played against the run like a LB.
No doubt he gets caught looking into the backfield and bites too often on a double move, but half the time when he gets burned he should have had safety help over the top (our corners have paid more than a few times for Reed's gambling & playmaking nature)
I'm hoping this matter gets resolved and that C-Mac finishes his career as a Raven and takes his place in the ring of honor.

[HoustonRaven]

Who is saying good bye to him????

It was a lesson, nothing more, from Harbs. Everyone here recognizes the talent in Cmac.

[POPSinPA]

"But Harbaugh said the reduction in playing time had nothing to do with conduct."

So our coach flat out lied to the media?

[elland]

I blame Irsay!

C-mac was not ready vs. Colts.. I think the fact he missed a team meeting up to that game.. (and why was that? and he did play!) did it. Then maybe maybe combined with some other things like C-Macs attittude and resting those knees. Other things than that is pure speculation.

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

Hey, if that story is true (partying the night before the game), then Harbs has balls of steel for benching him like that. I mean, C-Mac is by far better than Frank Walker, and to bench the better player in favor of Walker takes guts. I do wonder, however, if he would have made the same decision if Miami had a top receiver like Ocho Stinko or Marvin Harrison.

As for what to do, Harbs is going to have to get "his guys" in place, as has been mentioned. If C-Mac is not going to get onboard his program, then the team should try to trade him. Plenty of teams would give up a decent amount (picks or even a top player) in exchange for a good corner like C-Mac.

He didn't get benched for Frank(Stank) Walker...He got benched for Fabian Washington:eyes: Walker could even hold or cover C-Mac's jock:laugh:

[baltimore_hokie]

The Carroll County Times reports that Ravens CB Chris McAlister's benching Sunday was the result of a violation of team dress code.
McAlister had on a T-shirt and shorts in the team hotel's lobby before Sunday's game while his teammates were decked out in suits. Ravens coach John Harbaugh insists that the team was moving forward after the issue had already been addressed.

Looks like a decent to excuse for Harbaugh to flex his nuts to one of the older guys on the team...

[ravens138]

I'm at the point that I'm sick and tired of C'Mac's act. He walks around like he's king of the hill and he really isn't a shut down corner anymore. I just hope that he picked his shoes up before he left Indy because he got smoked right out of his shoes. I want to start to look for another cornerback and send him on his way. :bag:

[underwriter]

The Carroll County Times reports that Ravens CB Chris McAlister's benching Sunday was the result of a violation of team dress code.
McAlister had on a T-shirt and shorts in the team hotel's lobby before Sunday's game while his teammates were decked out in suits. Ravens coach John Harbaugh insists that the team was moving forward after the issue had already been addressed.

Looks like a decent to excuse for Harbaugh to flex his nuts to one of the older guys on the team...

Not to mention the three women he had with him. Whatever...i like Harbaugh and how he is handling every situation. We need this type of leader with this team...otherwise this team would chew him up and spit him out....

UW:girlfight

[Losac]

"But Harbaugh said the reduction in playing time had nothing to do with conduct."

So our coach flat out lied to the media?

Shocking! :261695:

Happens all the time. This is an issue that should be kept in-house and Harbs is showing class by doing so. Mentioning the real reason for the benching in the media would only start a media war of words between the two, which accomplishes nothing.

Part of being an NFL head coach is knowing how to spin bullshit. If you think any coach is always 100% honest about team issues with the media then I have a nice bridge to sell you.

[Jeremiah W]

Shocking! :261695:

Happens all the time. This is an issue that should be kept in-house and Harbs is showing class by doing so. Mentioning the real reason for the benching in the media would only start a media war of words between the two, which accomplishes nothing.

Part of being an NFL head coach is knowing how to spin bullshit. If you think any coach is always 100% honest about team issues with the media then I have a nice bridge to sell you.

Exactly. If a HC can not BS the media, he can not sell his message to the team either. His job is to keep the fans and media on a need to know basis enough to avoid getting fined. The guy should be trying to provide disinformation and spin for the competiive advantage. Just do not rely on any NFL info for accuracy. Entertaiment purposes only.

[POPSinPA]

I don't expect a man to stand there and bold face lie , unless ofcourse he is a politician.

[Jeremiah W]

I don't expect a man to stand there and bold face lie , unless ofcourse he is a politician.

How many times did Billck stand up there with a straight face and say I belive in Kyle? He did not really think Kyle was any good, he just did not have a better option at the time.

[Lee Van Cleef]

Is Asomugha gonna hit the market next off-season?

[purplepoe]

I just don't understand why Harbaugh just didn't say McAlister violated some unspecified team rule and be done with it.

The whole thing it could've been squashed Sunday morning.

Instead he's tiptoed around this thing and let it simmer.

PP

[StingerNLG]

"But Harbaugh said the reduction in playing time had nothing to do with conduct."

So our coach flat out lied to the media?


It's not the first time (cough cough preseason QB situation cough cough).

[purplepoe]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-mcalister1022,0,944104.story

Harbs and Cmac aren't exactly seeing eye to eye are they.

PP

[Dade]

Wow. CMac seemed real bitter. There's clearly alot going on behind the scenes.

[purplepoe]

Wow. CMac seemed real bitter. There's clearly alot going on behind the scenes.

Yup.

Which is why I cannot understand Harbaugh's hard line stance about this being about putting the best 11 players on the field.

Just say he was disciplined and be done with it.

PP

[Khaine]

Perhaps the best 11 is more than just the best 'players at the time' and the best 11 guys to make a team work...
If he felt CMac wasn't on board with the teams needed 11 then there is no lie involved.

Would I be a little pissed if I were CMac, yeah. But I'd be more concerned about rectifying the situation and trying to win football games.

[Mr OC]

Yup.

Which is why I cannot understand Harbaugh's hard line stance about this being about putting the best 11 players on the field.

Just say he was disciplined and be done with it.

PP

I agree. The Coach can tell the truth about a rule being broken and that it was handled in house and is over. That way he can be honest and still not air dirty laundry in public.

That being said, the only other reason for CMac not being on the field is that he is hurt and doesn't at present give us the best chance to win. But why dance around that if that's the case? Competitive advantage?

[purplepoe]

Here's the way I see it. McAlister isn't on board with Harbaugh and hasn't been since the start. His attitude and practice habits have probably shown that to be clear. It's obvious that last week it came to a head and Harbaugh had enough and decided to sit him. He flaunted 3 women at the hotel. He was dressed in shorts and a T-shirt while the rest of the team was following the dress code and dressed in suits. He embarrassed some important people, including Harbaugh.

When asked about the situation, Harbaugh decided to steer clear of any disciplinary stuff. He mentioned the knee but then backtracked because there was no mention of the knee on the injury report. He's now hell bent on saying he puts the best 11 out there etc..... when it was clear there was much more to it than that.

Now you've got McAlister talking to the media and putting pressure back on Harbaugh......in other words just testing him some more. Just read the Hensley interview. It's pretty clear that he was disciplined and is furious that it's being spun that he was benched due to on the field stuff.

IMO this thing would've been squashed if Harbaugh just made a simple statement to the effect that McAlister broke a team rule or whatever and that was it. He doesn't have to go into details. Just a simple statement and that it's an in house matter etc.... Instead we've now got McAlister coming out and playing these games and pushing the issue even more. If it were announced that he was punished for breaking a rule then it would be behind us for the most part. Instead we've got Cmac talking to the media saying this stuff because he knows it was disciplinary but the coach won't say it.

PP

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

Unless someone here has some inside info, nobody knows what the deal is with C-Mac! For all we know, he could still be fighting a knee injury and still wanted to play, BUT the coaches feel that Chris isn't capable of playing to his full extent! You all can say what is wrong with C-Mac, but you don't know...I don't think that this is a discipline issue:eyes: If it was, then he wouldn't have been suited up and have gotten into the game for a few plays:nerd:

[Khaine]

Until I hear differently I'm behins Harbs on this. I like CMac, always have. He is a great corner. But stop talking to the public. Talk to Harbs, see exactly what you did wrong and how to make it better.

When the media mentions anything use the usual NFL "right now I'm focusing on the Raiders - bla bla bla" Don't push the coach more. Because I'm willing to bet he got himself in the current position by pushing the coach...

And if Harbs doesn't want to make the gory details public good for him. There is a lot of crap out in the air in years past that shouldn't have been. And we all know that is true.

[ravenwoman]

I totally agree with Purple Poe. This thing has turned into a wildfire, when it could have been stomped out like a cigarette.

My one complaint about Harbaugh is that he doesn't have the media saavy or command the way Billick did. Billick was always smooth and prepared in his remarks. He didn't flounder or backtrack on his words. You could never back him into a corner. He needs to take some media relation pointers from Kevin Burne.

[Losac]

IMO this thing would've been squashed if Harbaugh just made a simple statement to the effect that McAlister broke a team rule or whatever and that was it. He doesn't have to go into details. Just a simple statement and that it's an in house matter etc.... Instead we've now got McAlister coming out and playing these games and pushing the issue even more. If it were announced that he was punished for breaking a rule then it would be behind us for the most part. Instead we've got Cmac talking to the media saying this stuff because he knows it was disciplinary but the coach won't say it.

PP

Keep in mind Harbs is still a rookie HC. He's learning about all the politics of coaching (including addressing the media) as he goes. Could have been handled better, but he's a smart guy and I'm sure will learn from this.

[purplepoe]

Keep in mind Harbs is still a rookie HC. He's learning about all the politics of coaching (including addressing the media) as he goes. Could have been handled better, but he's a smart guy and I'm sure will learn from this.

Agreed.

Things like this were inevitable considering the make up of the team and the different style that Harbaugh brings.

I think Harbaugh was 100% right in sitting McAlister down. I just wish he'd of nipped it in the bud when he could've.

PP

[Ravenswarrior19]

Agreed.

Things like this were inevitable considering the make up of the team and the different style that Harbaugh brings.

I think Harbaugh was 100% right in sitting McAlister down. I just wish he'd of nipped it in the bud when he could've.

PP

Yep. Since day 1, Harbs has had a rough go with the media - not nearly as well versed in controlling the media like Billick was.

I'm wondering why Kevin Byrne doesn't give him a briefing before every interview (kinda like the President). I would think Byrne's advice on this one woulda been "violation of unspecified team rule" - the end.

[Jeremiah W]

No matter what he said, benching C Mac was going to be a controversy. I don't mind that I do not know what is really going on between them.

To me, it looked like C Mac did not show up in Indy, and Harbs did something about it. I am not going to be critical until or unless this backfires. So far it seems like he is just taking control of his team, even if he is not as smooth as Billick with the media, I think he may be much more effective in the long run.

[Rayvens52]

Personally I like what Harbs has done here, I like the fact that he has Cmac all pissed off maybe he will actually play like a corner again and stop acting as if he is the best corner to ever play. I have never been a big fan of him and if he does not like what is going on here we should trade him ASAP. The reason he is pissed is because Billick is no longer here sucking up to the vets and now cmac has no idea what to do. He needs to shut up come to work and do his job and act like a vet and maybe he wouldn't get benched...enough with babying these guys!!!

[Fanman]

Bub-bye C-mac...after this season.

Trade him or let him go. The guy has been grossly over-rated for years. Nobody gets burned by Marvin Harrsion anymore...give me a break.

FM

[POPSinPA]

Bub-bye C-mac...after this season.

Trade him or let him go. The guy has been grossly over-rated for years. Nobody gets burned by Marvin Harrsion anymore...give me a break.

FM

Sure, pro bowl shutdown corners grow on trees just like pro bowl linebackers do.
Dump Sizzle and Cmac, they are obviously easily replaceable.

:eyes:

[The Fanatic]

I'm in total agreement with PP here.
No need to lie or attempt to bullshit everybody here.
All you had to do was just say that C-mac was in violation of some team policys or rules and leave it at that.

Certainly there would be speculation on what he did, but nowhere near the full blown story that this has now become.

Reading that interview from Jameson Hemsley doesn't do that conversation justice.

You need to actually hear it to really get the full effect from C-mac.

No doubt about it you can tell C-mac is not a happy camper right now.

[bmorebirds_24]

Bub-bye C-mac...after this season.

Trade him or let him go. The guy has been grossly over-rated for years. Nobody gets burned by Marvin Harrsion anymore...give me a break.

FM

i totally disagree here.C-mac overrated?what makes you think that?

[the duke]

Bub-bye C-mac...after this season.

Trade him or let him go. The guy has been grossly over-rated for years. Nobody gets burned by Marvin Harrsion anymore...give me a break.

FM

Time out on the field.:ref: I used to think Cmac was overrated. Then this funny thing happened last year when Cmac and Rolle went down. We could not cover anyone. Teams threw all over us. As much as I thought we did not need him after last year I realized how much we did need him.

I will say I do not condone him testing the coaching staff. If he is having off the field issues which are detrimental to the team than he does need to take a seat. Football is the ultimate team sport and if everyone is not on board with the team agenda than you are setting up for failure. All 11 guys depend on the next man to give 100% so the team succeeds.

So if he straightens up then keep him and if not get rid of him. It is about the team not one individual.

[RavensFanIAm]

McAlister isn't gonna fetch a top notch WR in a trade.

He will fetch a pick or two but nothing very high.

PP

Thank you! he will not go for a top WR straight up. he is old (in football years) and on the downside of his career. We would have to add draft picks and/or $$ along with C Mac to get a receiver

[Fanman]

I am not saying Cmac sucks...he's good, but he is not an elite CB IMO.
If you need anymore proof look at the Browns game last year when Edwards burned him deep and the Colts game this year when Harrsion made him look silly. A shutdown corner takes a #1 WR out of the game and Cmac does this occasionallly....not week in and week out.

And I never mentioned anything about Suggs.

FM

[Jeremiah W]

I am not saying Cmac sucks...he's good, but he is not an elite CB IMO.
If you need anymore proof look at the Browns game last year when Edwards burned him deep and the Colts game this year when Harrsion made him look silly. A shutdown corner takes a #1 WR out of the game and Cmac does this occasionallly....not week in and week out.

And I never mentioned anything about Suggs.

FM

Who is an "elite" CB if C Mac is not? They all get beat occasionally, it is about how often, and C Mac has not had many bad games in his carreer.

[Fanman]

OK..I get even elite CBs get beat now and then. I just think Cmac has never been as good as he thinks he is. And how many stupid penalties has he been flagged for? Could we do worse....of course.

But I won't miss him if he is gone next year. If he is not on board w/ the new regime then see ya!!

FM

[Jeremiah W]

OK..I get even elite CBs get beat now and then. I just think Cmac has never been as good as he thinks he is. And how many stupid penalties has he been flagged for? Could we do worse....of course.

But I won't miss him if he is gone next year. If he is not on board w/ the new regime then see ya!!

FM

Sometimes you do not miss what you have until it is gone. When C Mac has been out of the lineup, we can't cover anyone. Find me one game where the defense shut down a passing attack without C-Mac.

I am not sasying he should be able to practice when he wants or break team rules, but there is no CB in the NFL I would rather have on gameday if his mind and body are right anyway.

I have no problem witht he fans getting upset at whatever he did to get benched, or what ever Sizzle said to piss people off, but don't get it twisted into thinking they are not great players, and would set us back if we did not have them on board.

It is easy to point out CB mistakes, even though we don't always know if they were supposed to get help that was not there, but when youwatch any CB in the NFL for a couple games, you will see them burnt.

The only guy I never saw scorched at least a few times was Prime Time, but he is arguably, actually there is not much argument, that he was the best cover corner ever, at least until he was @34 or so.

[jonboy79]

wow, agreeing with Jeremiah? It can't be.

If you think CMac isn't that great, follow another team for a month and observe their corner's closely, like they are your own. THEY ALL get beat. THEY ALL get stupid penalties. We would NOT be better off with a Rookie Malcom Jenkins and Fabian Washington Next year, with Derrick Martin as our top backup then we are this year.
That was for the let Rolle retire, Jetison Cmac, Walker and Ivy crowd.

[StingerNLG]

OK..I get even elite CBs get beat now and then. I just think Cmac has never been as good as he thinks he is. And how many stupid penalties has he been flagged for? Could we do worse....of course.

But I won't miss him if he is gone next year. If he is not on board w/ the new regime then see ya!!

FM

I agree that if he's not on board, then he's got to go. But the fact of the matter is that he is a top 5 CB in this league, even right now.

Name me 5 better cornerbacks than C-Mac performance-wise. Champ Bailey I'd give you.

Right now McAlister is sitting one interception back from the leaders in that category, and hes missed playing time.

I 100% agree that he either needs to straighten up and fly right, or he's got to find another team to play for. But I'm not ready to write off his abilities just yet.

[Gwaihir]

Without the knee issue -- agreed -- top 5!

With the knee issue -- not even close, probably not even top 15.

He is still a good corner, using his savvy, but not near as good as before he went down last year! He still hasn't fully recovered from that, and at 31, may never!!

[bmorebirds_24]

Without the knee issue -- agreed -- top 5!

With the knee issue -- not even close, probably not even top 15.

He is still a good corner, using his savvy, but not near as good as before he went down last year! He still hasn't fully recovered from that, and at 31, may never!!


not trying to call you out but i was wondering if you were to sit down right now and off the top of your head could you name 15 better?i am talking at this point in time.......


just a question,personally i think he is in top 3.

[StingerNLG]

Without the knee issue -- agreed -- top 5!

With the knee issue -- not even close, probably not even top 15.

He is still a good corner, using his savvy, but not near as good as before he went down last year! He still hasn't fully recovered from that, and at 31, may never!!

Personally? I am not even so sure there is a knee problem at this point.

[ravenjoe]

I really believe that Cmac is not buying into Rex's system, and is not demonstrating a Raven-like work ethic in practice. That's why he is warming the pines, and he should continue to do so until such time as he changes his attitude. Get with the program, Cmac!

[Gwaihir]

not trying to call you out but i was wondering if you were to sit down right now and off the top of your head could you name 15 better?i am talking at this point in time.......


just a question,personally i think he is in top 3.


Off the top of my head :

Asomugha, Nnamdi; Bailey, Champ; Barber, Ronde; Bly, Dre'; Hall, DeAngelo; Harris, Al; Lucas, Ken; Mathis, Rashean; McFadden, Bryant; O'Neal, Deltha; Rogers, Carlos; Samuel, Asante; Smoot, Fred; Springs, Shawn; Woodson, Charles; Wright, Eric.

If I can name this many players with no research, I guess you’re right, I need to re-think what I said, at this point in his career, C-Mac probably isn’t even a top 25 Corner!

C-Mac wouldn’t even start for Oakland, Aso & Hall are both playing way better than him! Why do you think we got Fabian so cheap?

Like I said, before the Knee problem maybe Top 5, now he can’t even keep up with Hines Ward’s blinding speed!

[UKRavenStockers]

not trying to call you out but i was wondering if you were to sit down right now and off the top of your head could you name 15 better?i am talking at this point in time.......


just a question,personally i think he is in top 3.

Top 3 corners in the league? You're kidding right? He hasn't played close to that level for the last year, even before the injury last season. He'd not crack my top 32 corners in the league right now, probably not even top 50, he's a shadow of a shadow of what he once was right now..

[jonboy79]

Off the top of my head :

Asomugha, Nnamdi; Bailey, Champ; Barber, Ronde; Bly, Dre'; Hall, DeAngelo; Harris, Al; Lucas, Ken; Mathis, Rashean; McFadden, Bryant; O'Neal, Deltha; Rogers, Carlos; Samuel, Asante; Smoot, Fred; Springs, Shawn; Woodson, Charles; Wright, Eric.

If I can name this many players with no research, I guess you’re right, I need to re-think what I said, at this point in his career, C-Mac probably isn’t even a top 25 Corner!

C-Mac wouldn’t even start for Oakland, Aso & Hall are both playing way better than him! Why do you think we got Fabian so cheap?

Like I said, before the Knee problem maybe Top 5, now he can’t even keep up with Hines Ward’s blinding speed!

DeAngelo Hall is gettign TORCHED on a WEEKLY basis. Dre Bly is a glorified nickle, Delta O'neal isn't nearly on his level, Smoot was never more hten a fair secondcorner, and Springs WAS better then CMAC IS now, but never at any point in their respective careers was he better at the time, and most of the rest are only marginably better, if at all.

[purplepoe]

DeAngelo Hall is gettign TORCHED on a WEEKLY basis. Dre Bly is a glorified nickle, Delta O'neal isn't nearly on his level, Smoot was never more hten a fair secondcorner, and Springs WAS better then CMAC IS now, but never at any point in their respective careers was he better at the time, and most of the rest are only marginably better, if at all.

Spot on.

Cmac might not be top 5 but he's better than those guys for sure.

For those who think Hall is better than Cmac.....find a Raiders fan Sunday at the stadium and ask them about Hall.

You'll find out real quickly what kind of CB that guy has been this season.

Deltha O'neal?

Wow.

Cmac and Rolle are still a one of the top tandems in the league and WAY too many people in this town take them for granted.

PP

[Gwaihir]

DeAngelo Hall is gettign TORCHED on a WEEKLY basis.

And C-Mac isn't? I didn't say any of these guys were better than C-Mac in his prime, but his prime was 2 years ago before the Knee Thing. Right now, I agree with UK, C-mac isn't a shadow of a shadow of his old self!

Plus you only mentioned like 4 guys on my "top of the Head" list, That still leaves a lot more than 2 Corners better than him!

[jonboy79]

Did I say he was the third best? NO.

I said, today right now, the shell of himself CMAC is better then about half your list.
I agree he was far better just a few years ago. Btu what most people don'
t realize, is that corner has gotten far harder to play the last few years as well, and the average corner SUCKS. Good corners don't get burned TOO often....

[Gwaihir]

Did I say he was the third best? NO.

I said, today right now, the shell of himself CMAC is better then about half your list.
I agree he was far better just a few years ago. Btu what most people don'
t realize, is that corner has gotten far harder to play the last few years as well, and the average corner SUCKS. Good corners don't get burned TOO often....

Sorry man, it was the other guy that said top 3, my apologies.

[bmorebirds_24]

Off the top of my head :

Asomugha, Nnamdi; Bailey, Champ; Barber, Ronde; Bly, Dre'; Hall, DeAngelo; Harris, Al; Lucas, Ken; Mathis, Rashean; McFadden, Bryant; O'Neal, Deltha; Rogers, Carlos; Samuel, Asante; Smoot, Fred; Springs, Shawn; Woodson, Charles; Wright, Eric.

If I can name this many players with no research, I guess you’re right, I need to re-think what I said, at this point in his career, C-Mac probably isn’t even a top 25 Corner!

C-Mac wouldn’t even start for Oakland, Aso & Hall are both playing way better than him! Why do you think we got Fabian so cheap?

Like I said, before the Knee problem maybe Top 5, now he can’t even keep up with Hines Ward’s blinding speed!



after reading this post i am taking it that you think i am calling you out in some way.but congrats fellow you just named 16 corners in the league.:ww:

but how do you judge who a better corner is?c-mac is fast,aggresive,good tackler,good in man coverage and zone.he is the total package,IMHO.every corner in this league gets beat the good ones and the bad ones.they all get beat at times.up until c-mac got hurt last year champ bailey had given up more big plays(deep touchdowns).it was said on espn.i think NFL live was the show.

im sure your a ravens fan first.with that said i am sure you see c-mac play more then any other corner in the league so when he gets beat you see that everytime.all the other corners you dont see play down after down.as for some of the corners you named im not so sure they are better.the first 3 games this year cmac played his ass off.he gets beat in indy runs his mouth then people talk about how bad he is.c-mac still matches up with the best WR's in the game.he shut down randy moss last year.braylon edwards was a non-factor against us this year.where was chad johnson when we played cincy this year?


as for your hines ward statement well you hit a nerve there.i HATE that mother f----ker.i cant stand his sorry ass.where did ward take it to c-mac?you talking about the monday night game this year when he had 2 catches?the long reception he had where he grabbed c-mac by the face mask to get by him...he can run and play with the best WR'S in the game still.i understand he is getting older and we can argue this point all day.i am just curious to how you judge the talent of corners.....when you probally watch c-mac more then any other in the league.

[Gwaihir]

I'm not trying to start any major crap with C-Mac here or anything. I used to think he was the key to our Defense, and he was! Key word WAS, he definitely isn't the same player he was in '06 and before! And definitely not a top 5, or even 10 CB anymore! I truly believe he is a middle of the road Corner these days!

Last year, when I said our season was over when he went down, I caught major flac from everyone about being a Chicken Little or some crap! Funny thing is, we didn't win another game last year until we played Pissburgh's backups the last game!

I believe that's the major reason for all the DB help the Ravens picked up in the off-season, and I'll be real surprised if we don't pick up more this year!

[purplepoe]

Chad Pennington threw for 295 yds on Sunday.

What do you think a legit passing offense will do with Walker as the starting CB?

Cmac is still the best CB on this team and we are much worse off with him out then in.

There are not 10 CBs that are better than Cmac.

I swear, some people either don't watch other CBs or just refuse to accept what they see.

Ask the 32 defensive coordinators if they'd trade their top CB for Cmac and you'd get a whole hell of alot who would do it in a heartbeat.

PP

[Gwaihir]

You act like Chad Pennington is some washed up, has been, QB. He may be one of the most accurate passers we face this year. I think that was the first game he was held under a 100 rating.

Rex made the decision to sit C-Mac, he said so himself, so he apparently thinks Walker working within his scheme, is better than C-Mac freelancing and playing his own game.

If C-Mac won't attend the meetings, and play the way Rex wants him to, He's not one of the best 11 to put on the field!

[purplepoe]

You act like Chad Pennington is some washed up, has been, QB. He may be one of the most accurate passers we face this year. I think that was the first game he was held under a 100 rating.

Rex made the decision to sit C-Mac, he said so himself, so he apparently thinks Walker working within his scheme, is better than C-Mac freelancing and playing his own game.

If C-Mac won't attend the meetings, and play the way Rex wants him to, He's not one of the best 11 to put on the field!

O please.

Keep believing that McAlister's situation has to do with schemes and packages. The guy is our best CB bar none and was benched for off the field reasons.

If you can't tell that by now then it's not worth even talking about it.

PP

[Dont Know]

Rex made the decision to sit C-Mac, he said so himself, so he apparently thinks Walker working within his scheme, is better than C-Mac freelancing and playing his own game.

Errr...that's not the impression I got listening to Rex. While he did emphatically state that he picks his starters on D, it really did not sound like C-Mac was available to be picked.

[Merlin]

Bottom line is that our defense is predicated on the success of the cornerbacks -- that was the case when it was Marvin Lewis' defense and even more so now with Rex Ryan.

Its unfortunate with CMac because I think the one thing we can all agree on is that the combination of team issues and his lower performance isn't worth his salary. And if the team is going to do well in the long term, that means a salary cap related change for next year.

Assume that Fabian will stay as one corner and we will really need a great rookie or a free agent. Who are the likely free agent CBs out there for next year.

[UKRavenStockers]

You guys will be watching the premier free agent corner in the league tomorrow when you see Nnamdi Asomugha. He was tagged this year and he's basically got some sort of clause this year that means that they pretty much can't tag him again and he apparently isn't interested in re-upping with the Raiders. He'll command a huge price tag, but he is legitimately a top 3 corner in the league.

Do I think we will or should sign him? No, personally I think your pass rush can make above average corners look great or great corners look below average, big investment goes into your D-line for my money. We need some fresh, good talent at corner but Asomugha would come at a huge price.

[Jeremiah W]

I can not understand how anyone who watches other teams than the Ravens can not see that C mac is better than the corners on almost every team in the NFL.

The list of top CBs in my book
Asmoughoa
McAlister
Bailey
Samuel
Cromartie
Barber

I have seen all of them scorched this season as often as C Mac. Go to NFL.com and just look at the highlights from one of the games those teams lost, they are right there chasing the Wr they were covering into the endzone. It happens. The key is how often.

How many TDs has C Mac allowed? Until the Colts game, the last thing everone brings up was a similar looking play to Braylon Edwards, about a year ago.

[Ravenswarrior19]

Yeah, I'm excited (in a way) to see Nnamdi play. Excited to see what all the fuss is about, cuz I've never really seen him before. Not excited cuz it's against us. And of course, I doubt we'll throw his way anyway.

Here is a quote from Harbaugh to the Oakland media:

Here's what Baltimore coach John Harbaugh said of Asoumgha during this morning's conference call (and by the way, he pronounced Asomugha correctly. You should here are the name gets butchered sometimes).

"I'm pretty sure there's not a better corner in the NFL than (Asomugha)," Harbaugh said. "...He does it all. He plays the run. He gets off blocks. He's always in position, zone or man, he's just a complete player."
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/raiders/archives/016328.html

The price to sign him will probably be off the charts. His deal will be bigger than the Nate Clemens deal 2 years ago. Nnamdi is still young, entering his prime, and is the consensus 2nd best CB in the league (behind Champ). Some would say he's the best overall.

If we continue to play Rex Ryan's defense, we will need young corners who can cover man-to-man. There aren't many of those out there, and it's real tough to get them without investing big $$$ and high draft picks. Sometimes you can hide average corners in Tampa 2 D, or protect them with a pass rush, but if you want to blitz frequently you need quality corners.

[Ravenswarrior19]

Well, Nnamdi was on the field. Can't really say how he did, unless you just assume his coverage was good. From a California newspaper:



Boring time: Another game, another throw against Asomugha - one, to be precise, and an incomplete pass at that.

Asomugha has now faced nine passes in six games with three completions. For the second straight game, he dabbled in the slot and shadowed receivers on both sides of the field instead of strictly playing the right sideline