Bills D, False 'Hut'?

[corvuscorax]

From the Sun, bottom of the Pittman article.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.ravensnotes03jan03,0,5476678.story?coll=bal-sports-football

False 'hut'
"Coach Brian Billick accused a Buffalo Bills defensive player of barking out the snap count and causing the Ravens to false start on three occasions in the team's 19-7 victory Sunday.

After quarterback Steve McNair called his first "hut" at the line of scrimmage, it is believed that Buffalo defensive tackle Larry Tripplett followed with a "hut" of his own and led the Ravens to shift before the ball was snapped, resulting in the false start penalties.

"You can't have a defensive lineman call out a snap count. That's illegal, and that's what they were doing. They did it three times," Billick said. "We will bring it to the officials' attention, but there's nothing you can do about it if they're not going to hear it." "

WTF, I have never even heard of any Defense doing this kind of crap. If it's true, Larry Tripplett should be fined, and so should the Bills organization.

[WxKevin]

I heard Billick mentioning that during his Tuesday show on WBAL. He was not happy about it at all. The reason it came up was somebody asked him if he was worried about the several false starts that occured during the Bills game. He said no because the Bills were illegally calling out the snap causing the players to jump.

[UKRavenStockers]

It is something that should be penalised and for the refs to miss it three times (if it happened) then they're either deaf or I should imagine it's pretty tough to separate a hut from Larry Tripplett from a hut from Steve McNair beneath the din being belted out by 70,000 Raven maniacs at the purple palace.

Also this isn't that uncommon, this sort of chatter does happen at the LOS from time to time, I've heard The Goose mention that in many games he used to call 'hot' to mimic the QB's 'hut' and try and draw offsides at times, fining isn't necessary but it does need the officiating crew to pick it up.

[corvuscorax]

they're either deaf or I should imagine it's pretty tough to separate a hut from Larry Tripplett from a hut from Steve McNair beneath the din being belted out by 70,000 Raven maniacs at the purple palace.

Well, the fans are supposed to be quiet while we have the ball, and though I wasn't there this week, I know in general this year the fans have been pretty good about that.
I just can't really see a DT getting away with that enough to cause 3 false starts. Maybe the refs are 1/2 deaf -- how would I know? :laugh:


I've heard The Goose mention that in many games he used to call 'hot' to mimic the QB's 'hut' and try and draw offsides at times
That's interesting, never heard that before. Knowing Goose's personality, it doesn't really surprise me though. Thanks UKRS.

Regardless of the reason, I sure as hell don't want to see near that many procedure penalties in the playoffs. Those drive-killers make us all crazy!

[PARavensJeff]

I heard Billick say this at his PC yesterday & his show last night. Yes, the stadium was quiet when we had the ball, & I was shocked at the # of false starts we had at home. Billick should address with the league. This still doesn't excuse our WR's who were called for these penalties, all they're supposed to do is watch the ball.

I have never heard Goose say that before, but knowing him, I believe it.

[UKRaven]

I definitely remember the interview with Goose - saying how he calls a shift called 'hot' and 'hot hot' - said it was worth a try a couple of times a game.

Maybe it was for UK television and not shown in the US?

[Sephy]

I definitely remember the interview with Goose - saying how he calls a shift called 'hot' and 'hot hot' - said it was worth a try a couple of times a game.

Maybe it was for UK television and not shown in the US?

It was definitely said here, if not in an interview, an article or a book or somewhere. I've seen it.

[UKRavenStockers]

Well, the fans are supposed to be quiet while we have the ball, and though I wasn't there this week, I know in general this year the fans have been pretty good about that.
I just can't really see a DT getting away with that enough to cause 3 false starts. Maybe the refs are 1/2 deaf -- how would I know? :laugh:

This is entirely true, the fans are supposed to be quiet when we have the ball, didn't think of that lol, I know we're not perfect but compared to what I heard on tv last year to what I experienced this year at the game against Oakland the fans as a whole have got a lot better at keeping quiet when we've got the ball.

[Mr OC]

Bruce Laird said a last night's radio show that this kind of thing happens all of the time; he's employed it himself when at the end of his career he was playing for George Allen. John Gerhig agreed and said that it's just part of football and the offense needs to deal with it.

[Ravens0587]

that does make a lot of sense now that I think about it, I remember a play where Heap got called for a false start but about 4-5 guys jumped, I thought maybe the center messed up the snapcount b?c it seemed like he was the only one that didn't move

[skaybaltimore]

Well, it's the "low road", to be sure. But I don't doubt it happens throughout the league. I can't say for sure, but I'd imagine it'd be exactly the kind of thing that Bellicheck might employ, because he's one crafty coach who's always looking for some kind of advantage. Hopefully, Billick will learn from this and figure out a way to keep our guys from getting sucked into the same trap again.

GO RAVENS!!! (41-0 when +2 in turnovers)

[Gabrosin]

It seems to me that this would be an easy problem to adjust around. If the opponent is mimicking the snap count, just switch up the words. Announce in the huddle that you're going on "snap" instead of "hut". You can still make it the second or third word called. You can just have a list of distinctive sounds that would serve as triggers for the snap. Obviously you wouldn't want to have to use this all the time, because it breaks the rhythm of the team going on a familiar word, and forces everyone to concentrate on one more thing before the snap, rather than their assignment or reading the defense. But if the defensive line is disrupting you illegally, you should at least have a plan; it's better than getting false starts and waiting for the refs to do something about it.

[Gabrosin]

A further thought: as frustrating as this must have been for Billick and the Ravens, there's no way they should have brought it up in a press conference before their season is over. Any playoff team who sees that we're susceptible to this is likely to have someone willing to try it. Don't expose a weakness to the media, coach!

[OwingsMillsAlex]

If you were at the game on Sunday you heard Heap say "are you kidding me?" over the Ref's mic when they called him for offsides. I don't understand how everyone but the Refs could hear this happening from the Bills.

[Ravens0587]

A further thought: as frustrating as this must have been for Billick and the Ravens, there's no way they should have brought it up in a press conference before their season is over. Any playoff team who sees that we're susceptible to this is likely to have someone willing to try it. Don't expose a weakness to the media, coach!

If you get caught I think it's a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty, and with it out in the open they might be looking specifically for it

[skaybaltimore]

I think Billick was sending a message to the refs and the league, which offsets any negative impact it might have by exposing a "weakness" to opposing teams, IMO.

GO RAVENS!!! (41-0 when +2 in turnovers)

[PARavensJeff]

This is all well & good, but what about the problem of WR's jumping. All they have to do is watch the ball. There is no excuse for a WR being called for false start.

[ravenwoman]

I think a player who is caught doing this should be ejected from the game. ITS JUST PLAIN CHEATING!!!

[Rochardrik]

If you get caught I think it's a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty, and with it out in the open they might be looking specifically for it

It IS an unsportsmanlike call, and I have seen it called 2 times this season. The Ref explained it :thusly: False start caused by illegal vocalizing by the defense. 15 yrd penalty!!!!:hammer:

[festivus]

It happens, it gets called every now and then, and now that Billick has called attention to it, opposing defensive linemen are probably less likely to try it.

The offense needs to deal with it for the same reason that the defense needs to deal with OL holding. Yes, it's against the rules, but it happens. Hope for a flag and be ready next time.

edited to add:
> there's no way they should have brought it up in a press conference
> before their season is over.
On the contrary, as Ravens0587 was implying, the whole *reason* to bring it up is to force officials and opposing teams to be prepared to see yellow laundry if it happens against us again. Old school Billick, in my humble opinion, another reason to tip my hat to the coach.

[RavensNTerps]

ha, I bet anything that Billick gets fined for these comments.

[skaybaltimore]

ha, I bet anything that Billick gets fined for these comments.
I bet if he does, he could care less.

GO RAVENS!!! (41-0 when +2 in turnovers)

[hurting]

"You can't have a defensive lineman call out a snap count. That's illegal, and that's what they were doing. They did it three times," Billick said. "We will bring it to the officials' attention, but there's nothing you can do about it if they're not going to hear it." "

If this is what Billick said he will not be fined for it. He is pointing out that something illegal occured and he will contact the officials. He did not criticize the officials. The fines come when a coach or player cliams a ref made a bad call. Not by pointing out that a call was not made. If the ref doesn't see or hear the foul they cannot call the foul. If you let them know to look out for it they usually will.

[Gabrosin]

As a point of concern for the Ravens, yes, Billick should bring it to the attention of the officials. He should speak to the head official and possibly the whole crew before the next game and ask them to stay alert for it. That's about the extent of what he can do. Bringing it out in front of the media doesn't gain anything extra for the Ravens. If anything, officials don't want to hear other people tell them how to do their jobs. A private word here would have gone a lot further than a public admonishment.

[festivus]

The private word does not notify the opposing teams' players and coaches that this particular trick has been identified and may be watched closely.

I would have said the quiet word, because that's my personality. But I think making it public, while less gentlemanly, does the job more thoroughly.

My 2c.

[OwingsMillsAlex]

Why couldn't Billick have called a Ref over durring a commercial break or time out and mention it to them to listen and watch for it. I've seen players do that durring games and the Refs eyes open up a bit more.