Not saying, but I'm just saying

[NCRAVEN]

Not saying the NFL is "out to get us" all I wanna know is do teams really commit no penalties against. Did the Vikings really never commit holding, illegal contact, pass interference or anything other than D off sides? Now I know no one is talking about officiating cause they won yesterday, but I always watch the trenches and constantly saw missed holding penalties, which I don't think there was one penalty for. Here is a list of penalty stats for each game, draw your own conclusions........ not saying that the Raven don't commit some or most of the penalties but are the other teams that much more disciplined????

Chiefs 3-15 Ravens 8-65
Chargers 4-32 Ravens 12-85
Browns 5-46 Ravens 8-84
Patriots 5-41 Ravens9-85
Bengals 7-39 Ravens 10-76
Vikings 3-15 Ravens 6-74
Broncos 6-35 Ravens 8-94

[RavenScallywag]

With the exception of the Tom Brady calls, every penalty called against us has been legit, but it's "ticky tacky"...penalties that could go either way, sometimes the refs overlook them, sometimes they call them. They are borderline, but mostly not phantom...

The thing is, because we react so poorly after the refs give us one of these ticky tack calls or miss one against us, the refs scrutinize us even more, looking for it, because we have this image of being the ref haters, saying everyone is out to get us...so we're bound to make more penalties...

To change this, we need to shut up about the penalties, stop blowing our cool, and just focus on playing football. Harbaugh has done a lot to get the discipline back on this team...the more we play level headed, smart football, the less the refs will look to call the penalties on us.

[NCRAVEN]

Scallywag, I get what your saying, but it's still wrong. To lean one way cause one team complains less or more than an other shouldn't matter. It's either a penalty or it isn't. Again i get what you're saying and it makes sense but doesn't mean it's right

[RavenScallywag]

But you're never going to be able to enforce it really...all you can do is continue sending the tapes off to the league and ask them to train the refs better.

It's not like you can assign a 5th ref as "QA Referee" that looks at the whole replay after each play and says "I think you interpreted this rule wrong" or "I think you missed this call"...The game would take 5-6 hours if you have a ref watching the replay after each play to check up on that.

And there are a decent amount of NFL rules that are not cut and dry...Intent factors in, degree can factor in, position on the field can be a factor...heck, intentional grounding can be a subjective penalty, since you have to decide if there was a receiver close enough to the ball to constitute a receiver in the area...

Until the NFL makes every rule COMPLETELY OBJECTIVE, you will not be able to avoid this, no matter how much you think it's not right.

[Filmstudy]

The key numbers there are the opponent penalties. Anyone might make the argument that the Ravens are prone to more penalties because they are more aggressive defensively or have a bad secondary or can't pass block (untrue).

I'm not going to take the time to do this, but one could do the following:

1. Take all opponent penalties and toss out delay of game, false start, and offsides, illegal shift, and a few of the others that are not typically debated.
2. Check the remaining penalties called on opponents and compare to the league average. The key calls here are all personal fouls, holding (O or D), PI, illegal contact, etc. Since the sample size won't be large, I'd say total yardage might be the best measure and I'd be tempted to call every PI worth 15 yards just so those don't skew the analysis.

[RockGod]

Not saying the NFL is "out to get us" all I wanna know is do teams really commit no penalties against. Did the Vikings really never commit holding, illegal contact, pass interference or anything other than D off sides? Now I know no one is talking about officiating cause they won yesterday, but I always watch the trenches and constantly saw missed holding penalties, which I don't think there was one penalty for. Here is a list of penalty stats for each game, draw your own conclusions........ not saying that the Raven don't commit some or most of the penalties but are the other teams that much more disciplined????

Chiefs 3-15 Ravens 8-65
Chargers 4-32 Ravens 12-85
Browns 5-46 Ravens 8-84
Patriots 5-41 Ravens9-85
Bengals 7-39 Ravens 10-76
Vikings 3-15 Ravens 6-74
Broncos 6-35 Ravens 8-94

OL holding are not being called anywhere. I watch games everyweek and see obvious OLmen holding and it doesn't get called. I know they'll allow holding inside the shoulders but there are some big time choke holds going uncalled. T. Price was being mugged a few weeks ago and it was never called.

[NCRAVEN]

But you're never going to be able to enforce it really...all you can do is continue sending the tapes off to the league and ask them to train the refs better.

It's not like you can assign a 5th ref as "QA Referee" that looks at the whole replay after each play and says "I think you interpreted this rule wrong" or "I think you missed this call"...The game would take 5-6 hours if you have a ref watching the replay after each play to check up on that.

And there are a decent amount of NFL rules that are not cut and dry...Intent factors in, degree can factor in, position on the field can be a factor...heck, intentional grounding can be a subjective penalty, since you have to decide if there was a receiver close enough to the ball to constitute a receiver in the area...

Until the NFL makes every rule COMPLETELY OBJECTIVE, you will not be able to avoid this, no matter how much you think it's not right.



I know calls are objective that there is no 100% clear cut every time it is a penalty. What you're saying is they are paying more attention to and are more strict on the Ravens cause they complain more. That what I was saying "was not right"

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

With the exception of the Tom Brady calls, every penalty called against us has been legit, but it's "ticky tacky"...penalties that could go either way, sometimes the refs overlook them, sometimes they call them. They are borderline, but mostly not phantom...

The thing is, because we react so poorly after the refs give us one of these ticky tack calls or miss one against us, the refs scrutinize us even more, looking for it, because we have this image of being the ref haters, saying everyone is out to get us...so we're bound to make more penalties...

To change this, we need to shut up about the penalties, stop blowing our cool, and just focus on playing football. Harbaugh has done a lot to get the discipline back on this team...the more we play level headed, smart football, the less the refs will look to call the penalties on us.

After a bogus penalty call that goes against us, I think we should just get up give the ball to the ref who called the bogus penalty, and say "THANK YOU SIR, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!! THANK YOU SIR, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!!" <CLICK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ):eyes:

[RavenScallywag]

I'm not saying it doesn't piss me off, but how often have you seen a player argue a flag and get the official to reverse it? It doesn't happen, so what's the point of screaming at the ref? I mean, I can understand losing your cool about it, your heart is out on that field and when this bs happens, it hurts.

But when you realize the number of boneheaded personal fouls we get because someone goes just a TAD over the edge...it just makes more sense to complain about the call to your teammates and let the fans boo the crap out of the refs.

[BmoreBrawla]

Its pretty clear to me that the Ravens have a bad rep and the city of Baltimore is not respected by the refs and the league. I cant say that this is unique to us, but I think it is there.

The Pats game was an absolute robbery by the refs from start to finish, probably by design.

Everyone needs to read the excerpts posted online from Donaghy's book to realize what goes on in pro sports.

[RavenScallywag]

The playclock hit 0 on us during the Titans playoff game, remember? The official explanation is that there is about 1 second of delay between the TV play clock and the game play clock, and then the ref has to see the 0 on the game clock, then look to see if the QB is snapping the ball, then throw the flag.

Basically, unless it's FLAGRANTLY ovver the 0 second mark, I don't think we can complain about playclock non-penalties because we got a HUGE break last year with one.

[NC Raven]

Hello there, other NC Raven! Where do you live?

Chiming in on this thread, I found this
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1512

It's got penalty data from 2006. I didn't have time to find 2009, but I'm sure someone can. Overall, it looks like in an average game, each team will get 6.5 penalties for 48 yards.

Interestingly, each of our opponents' penalties that you listed are below that average, both in number and in terms of yards. So ignoring the tendency to overcall penalties against us (which appears obvious) there is also a tendency to under-call penalties by our opponents. I don't know what the odds are of going 7 consecutive games where each opponent has penalties and penalty yards below the league average, but I bet it's pretty close to what a statistician would call "pretty frickin unlikely". We must be playing some damn sportsmanlike teams this year.

Especially given that the Ravens are one of the league's best teams on both offense and defense. It stands to reason that inferior opponents would commit more penalties in general against a superior opponent, to offset, you know, not being as good. Yet somehow even the teams we dominated didn't have a need to hold or commit PI to the level we did, in the ref's eyes anyway. It's only 7 games, but I do see what looks like a trend developing.

** correction, one team, Cincy, went over 6.5 penalties, with .... 7. But their yards were still below avg. So 13 of the 14 possible measures (pens, yards) are still below average.

[NCRAVEN]

Hello there, other NC Raven! Where do you live?

Chiming in on this thread, I found this
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1512

It's got penalty data from 2006. I didn't have time to find 2009, but I'm sure someone can. Overall, it looks like in an average game, each team will get 6.5 penalties for 48 yards.

Interestingly, each of our opponents' penalties that you listed are below that average, both in number and in terms of yards. So ignoring the tendency to overcall penalties against us (which appears obvious) there is also a tendency to under-call penalties by our opponents. I don't know what the odds are of going 7 consecutive games where each opponent has penalties and penalty yards below the league average, but I bet it's pretty close to what a statistician would call "pretty frickin unlikely". We must be playing some damn sportsmanlike teams this year.

Especially given that the Ravens are one of the league's best teams on both offense and defense. It stands to reason that inferior opponents would commit more penalties in general against a superior opponent, to offset, you know, not being as good. Yet somehow even the teams we dominated didn't have a need to hold or commit PI to the level we did, in the ref's eyes anyway. It's only 7 games, but I do see what looks like a trend developing.

** correction, one team, Cincy, went over 6.5 penalties, with .... 7. But their yards were still below avg. So 13 of the 14 possible measures (pens, yards) are still below average.



:word


Clayton, just outside Raleigh/Garner.

[Dave Lap]

OL holding are not being called anywhere. I watch games everyweek and see obvious OLmen holding and it doesn't get called. I know they'll allow holding inside the shoulders but there are some big time choke holds going uncalled. T. Price was being mugged a few weeks ago and it was never called.

Very true. I think everyone saw Price getting held.