Article: Ravens could have won 2 or 3 more Super Bowls with Dilfer

[Mista T]

From the Miami Herald (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/16614010.htm?source=rss&channel=miamiherald_football) article found by our "Crazy Newshound":


former teammates Rod Woodson, Shannon Sharpe and Brandon Stokley, all of whom said they wished he could have returned as quarterback.

''Those guys will go to their graves swearing to God that we would have won two, three Super Bowls if they would have kept me,'' Dilfer said. ``I'm not going to say that; I have no idea. But I sure would have liked the chance to face the challenge. I would have loved that opportunity.''

That may be a bit of a stretch; however, IMHO, dumping Dilfer was perhaps the worst move by our front office since waiving Vinnie. All Dilfer did was to do exactly what the coaching staff wanted: don't turn over the ball, control the clock, score when possible, let our Defense stifle the opposition.

Maybe Dilfer would have gotten into the playoffs in 2001, 2003, and 2006, and maybe not. IMHO, we haven't seen anyone control the ball better since, and the QB stats of Trent's successors have been nothing to write home about. Certainly not in the money ball games. Compare playoff Ravens QB game turnovers:

Dilfer 2000 - 4 games - one turnover
Grbac 2001 - 2 games - three turnovers
Wright 2003 - 1 game - two turnovers
McNair 2006 - 1 game - three turnovers

[Greg]

I think people remember Dilfer a litttle too fondly. Check out his stats. The defense carried him. His QB rating was about 70, he tossed 12 TDs but threw 11 picks. He was a very good team player and a great guy, but he couldn't have done as well in 2001 without Jamal as Grbac did.

I think he would have played better against the Irsays, however.

[darb72]

Grbac tossed 18 INTs to 15 TDs. His QB rating was about 70.

[RavensNTerps]

Dilfer was a turnover machine...stop saying otherwise.

And that was with Harry Swayne (much better than Vickers, fwiw), Jamal Lewis, AND Priest Holmes...

Hardly Brookins and Allen, huh?

I like Dilfer, the person, but there's a reason he's been on 3 different squads since he left here and hasn't started a full season on ANY of them (got benched for Charlie friggin Frye).

[F Angelos]

It's funny, we constantly criticize defending champs who stick with the status quo hoping to catch lightning in a bottle again. Yet, here are the Ravens trying desperately to upgrade one of their biggest weakness' in an attempt to repeat and we rip them for it!? If you want to question the choice of Grbac over B Johnson fine but to honestly think we could repeat with Rag-arm Dilfer even with Jamal is stupidly myopic! Kind of like expecting the 90 Orioles to repeat their magical 89 season with the same motley crue squad!

[B-more Ravor]

Maybe Dilfer would have gotten into the playoffs in 2001, 2003, and 2006, and maybe not. IMHO, we haven't seen anyone control the ball better since, and the QB stats of Trent's successors have been nothing to write home about.


T - You do realize that Dilfer turned the ball over more per pass attempt (or per game, if you'd like) than: Grbac (2001), Redman (2002), Boller (2003), Boller (2004) and McNair (2006)? He simply didn't control the ball better. He did, on the other hand, have a once-in-a-lifetime defense that made up for his mistakes.


Compare playoff Ravens QB game turnovers:

Dilfer 2000 - 4 games - one turnover
Grbac 2001 - 2 games - three turnovers
Wright 2003 - 1 game - two turnovers
McNair 2006 - 1 game - three turnovers

Well, while I would agree that those numbers aren't very good, that doesn't mean that Dilfer was much better. He completed less than 50% of his passes in the playoffs and had very poor games against Tenn and Oak. He was good enough, but that doesn't mean that he was very good in those games either.

[festivus]

He also threw a pick in the Super Bowl that was called back for a defensive penalty unrelated to the interception.

Far be it from me to judge, but he should be glad to have been the starting quarterback on a SB winning team. And that should be it.

[RavensNTerps]

Cunningham wuold have started more games if Dilfer had come back, that's about the only diff.

[OwingsMillsAlex]

Let's remember that Dillfer was the backup to Tony Banks and if Banks could have gotten the ball down field more AND the receivers could have held onto the ball this whole argument would be a non-issue.

[Mista T]

T - You do realize that Dilfer turned the ball over more per pass attempt (or per game, if you'd like) than: Grbac (2001), Redman (2002), Boller (2003), Boller (2004) and McNair (2006)? He simply didn't control the ball better. He did, on the other hand, have a once-in-a-lifetime defense that made up for his mistakes.

Well, while I would agree that those numbers aren't very good, that doesn't mean that Dilfer was much better. He completed less than 50% of his passes in the playoffs and had very poor games against Tenn and Oak. He was good enough, but that doesn't mean that he was very good in those games either.

Ravor: I was talking about Ravens QB playoff performances. (If you want to talk about Ravens regular season performances, we haven't had seen any Ravens QB's regular season performance that can be considered much above average from any Ravens starting QBs since Vinnie left after the '97 season, except for Tony Banks' 2nd half of the '99 season.)

Some QB's step it up for the playoffs, e.g. Dilfer did exactly what the coaching staff wanted by not turning over the ball. (Not by attempting to win the game with his "arm", but rather not to lose it). Instead of his regular season of average 1.5 turnovers per game, his playoff performance was 0.25 turnovers per game. Other Ravens QBs, instead of stepping it up, have gotten rattled by the playoffs and played poorly e.g. Grbac against Pittsburgh and McNair against the Colts.

[RavensNTerps]

Dilfer did not put us in a position to win that Titans game, but he put us in quite a few to lose it...

seems like a nice guy and all , but come on...he's been on 3 different teams since he left here, including 2 bottom feeders, and hasn't started for more than a handful of games at any stop.

[B-more Ravor]

Ravor: I was talking about Ravens QB playoff performances.

Well, that's fine, but I thought there should be some balance there. A couple of playoff games here and there don't make or break a QB, IMO. After all, you've got to win regular season games to make the playoffs and win the SB (which was your original post).


(If you want to talk about Ravens regular season performances, we haven't had seen any Ravens QB's regular season performance that can be considered much above average from any Ravens starting QBs since Vinnie left after the '97 season, except for Tony Banks' 2nd half of the '99 season.)

Well, I'll submit that after McNair got comfortable with the offense and his teammates, he put up a 90+ QB rating over the last 10 games. That is above average.


Some QB's step it up for the playoffs, e.g. Dilfer did exactly what the coaching staff wanted by not turning over the ball. (Not by attempting to win the game with his "arm", but rather not to lose it).

Or perhaps, the Ravens just took that ball out of his hands. He completed 9, 5, 9 and 12 passes in his 4 playoff games. That's only 35 completions (in 73 attempts) in 4 games. That's less than 10 a game. He completed only 48% of his passes. He averaged less than 150 yards per game and that included 3 completions of 58, 52 and 97. Otherwise, he bordered on horrendous.

Seems to me that they simply didn't trust him enough to throw it anymore than they had to. They were going to let the defense take care of things and not let Dilfer mess it up. Sure, he followed that plan and played adequately, but I think it had more to do with the game plan than anything Dilfer did, or did not, do. To put it more succiently, IMO, it was more about him doing what he was told and not screwing up than about him "stepping up" in any way.

[camdenyard]

Dilfer did exactly what the coaching staff wanted by not turning over the ball. (Not by attempting to win the game with his "arm", but rather not to lose it).

The reason they wanted him to just not turn the ball over is because they knew he wasn't capable of much more, and they didn't need much more.

Seriously, is this what you wanted in 2001? I sure as hell didn't. I wanted Johnson, but applauded the upgrade to Grbac. And he was an upgrade. To get to the 2nd round of the playoffs with Jason f*cking Brookins as your feature back was an accomplishment Dilfer would NEVER have matched.

Dilfer is just a whiny bitch. He hasn't done jack since 2000, and couldn't even cut it with the Clowns. What does that tell you? It tells me that the Ravens D gave him a SB ring on a silver platter.

[Mista T]

Well, I'll submit that after McNair got comfortable with the offense and his teammates, he put up a 90+ QB rating over the last 10 games. That is above average.

If your going to cherry-pick portions of the season, fine. But then break the season down into 3 parts:

1- Fasell OC - average
2 - Billick OC - above average
3 - playoff game - below average




To put it more succiently, IMO, it was more about him doing what he was told and not screwing up than about him "stepping up" in any way.

Can't disagree too much. But I was happy that he did what he was told, there was only one turnover, and we won. Hopefully, future Ravens playoffs QBs can do as well.:laugh:

[B-more Ravor]

If your going to cherry-pick portions of the season, fine. But then break the season down into 3 parts:

1- Fasell OC - average
2 - Billick OC - above average
3 - playoff game - below average

Well, I don't see it has cherry-picking when it geneally can be expected that a new QB will struggle with a new team - especially when you consider that he didn't arrive in Feb like most FAs, but June (after all of the OTAs). The Sun did a detailed story on new QBs with new teams right before the season started - most struggle early on. So, if there was no apparent reason for his early struggles, then I would agree with you about the cherry-picking, but since it was something that should have been expected, then I think it's a fair dividing point.

And, I would agree that he stunk it up in the playoffs - at one of the worst possible times to do so - it doesn't change the fact that every player can have a bad game. Given how well he had been playing down the stretch and given what he has done over his career, I see no reason to think that it was anything but a bad game at a bad time.