To Those Concerned With Losing AD

[PurpleRulz]

This is not an exact correlation, but when the Colts loss Ed James, folks thought their offense would not be the same. The Colts, however, drafted Josepf Addai and combined with Dominic Rhodes, their running game was just as good, if not better. Ed James, meanwhile, was not as impressive with the Cards. Addai is a different runner than James, but his different style gave the Colts a new look.

My point is that AD will be a loss, but AD is a product of our defensive system. AD will be good, but as great outside our defensive scheme. Meanwhile, we could draft someone to replace AD and our defense will still be the dominant crew it was last season. That drafted replacement may be different from AD, but maybe that's a good thing.

Bottomline, I don't think AD will thrive outside our defense, but he deserves to get his money somewhere else. Also, our defense, even without AD, will still be the best in the NFL next year because it is a perfect blend of young and veteran talent.

[HDDream]

I don't really recall too many people who thought the Colts offense would drop off much if at all after losing James.

As for AD, I have little doubt in my mind that there are a couple of places where he could end up and really thrive (San Francisco and New England are the two that really come to mind), but that if he ends up somewhere, he could struggle.

Assuming he leaves, I think rather than a true replacement for AD, you might start to see them feature Suggs more often, while working in the actual replacement. AD will be hard to replace, but I have confidence that Newsome will do a good job finding another player to fit in, and Ryan will find a way to make that player work.

[PurpleRulz]

I don't really recall too many people who thought the Colts offense would drop off much if at all after losing James.

As for AD, I have little doubt in my mind that there are a couple of places where he could end up and really thrive (San Francisco and New England are the two that really come to mind), but that if he ends up somewhere, he could struggle.

Assuming he leaves, I think rather than a true replacement for AD, you might start to see them feature Suggs more often, while working in the actual replacement. AD will be hard to replace, but I have confidence that Newsome will do a good job finding another player to fit in, and Ryan will find a way to make that player work.

There were question marks as would naturally occur considering they lost their star feature RB and replaced him with a rookie (Addai) and journeyman-career backup RB (Rhodes). That combo, however is more productive than just having the one guy in James.

The two RB combo is the future.

[festivus]

I'd be more worried if we lost Rex. As long as we have the mad scientist, we will scheme for changes in personnel.

Good post, PR.

[ExiledRaven]

I'm not as worried about AD leaving as I am about him leaving and us getting nothing in return.

NE would be a great spot, they've got mega cap room and tons of 1st day picks.

I'd kill to pick up #24 or a high second.

[LBoogy]

I'm not as worried about AD leaving as I am about him leaving and us getting nothing in return.

NE would be a great spot, they've got mega cap room and tons of 1st day picks.

I'd kill to pick up #24 or a high second.

Those are my sentiments exactly.

I can deal with losing AD. He's a one of a kind athlete and one of a kind man, but he's going to be 30 and he's somewhat of a system guy.

I think we can draft someone to replace him and get similar production out of a young gun for years to come. However, the key is to get SOMETHING for AD. He's (in my mind) by far the best OLB in the game right now.

If we could get a 2nd rounder for AD I'd be stoked. In fact, I think the Ravens would be much better off. We could trade AD and a likely high salary for someone like Rufus Alexander, Anthony Spencer, or someone similar. Hell, it may even enable us to grab a RB high or another needed position.

But you know what? It's a damn shame Dan Cody hasn't shown much promise. The guy is a great athlete, he's a MONSTER, and he was one of the best DE's coming out of college a few years back. I was thinking that with his development, he could match AD's production, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Without all of the injuries, Cody and Musa Smith would probably be starters next season, and would be among some of the better up-and-coming stars in the NFL. Injuries are a bitch.

[PurpleRulz]

Lboogy,

I would love for us to tag and trade AD, but WNST's Drew made it very clear that would be a tasteless and classless thing for the organization to do to AD. Drew stated that such a move would leave a bad taste in the mouth of current players and any future players, and we should give AD the right to chose his team and not have his next move dictated by us.

In theory, he is right as it seems the NFL really value that market time, but I am a shrewd person and would still think of the draft picks we could gain.

We will get compensatory picks in 2008 for AD (probably a 3rd rounder).

I wish AD the best in his future, but we must also think of our future.

[bassgtrst]

If you tag a player and then trade him, do you take any kind of cap hit?

Like PR said, that would be a pretty underhanded move unless AD gets to pick the team he is traded to.

[festivus]

If you tag a player and then trade him, do you take any kind of cap hit?

Like PR said, that would be a pretty underhanded move unless AD gets to pick the team he is traded to.

Not if the new team pays his salary.

I doubt that will happen. He's a good LB but for that kind of trade the new team would have to want him for the cap-unfriendly franchise salary, unless there was a *separate* deal with him to restructure immediately, at which point you are now talking about a pretty complicated trade: Ravens tag AD *on the condition that* another team is going to trade for him, *on the condition that* AD will agree to a cap-friendly contract.

I doubt it.

[The Fanatic]

If we were to "tag" AD, it would not be to try and trade him for draft picks.

No team will trade away 1st round draft picks (which is what it would cost them) for a 30 year old player regardless of how good he may be.

I agree with Tonys article on this subject, and Drews thoughts on WNST.

AD has earned his pay day, and it's time for him to go get it.

Tagging AD would certainly be a way to keep him, but at what price?

Number 1, I think you would seriously piss him off as it would further deminish his chances of getting a big pay day next year as he'll be even older.

Secondly, I think the move would piss off alot of members on the team.
Regardless of how close they may be, it's still a business to them in many aspects that they're trying to set themselves up for life in.
I don't think useing the tag on an individual like AD would set a good example to alot of players in that lockerroom.

I also think by letting him go, you open some eyes to other potential free agents down the road that we're willing to let a player reach his maximum potential in this business making this place an even more attractive destination for them.

The only way I see AD coming back is if he takes another home town discount.
The only way I see that happening is if other teams don't want to spend the type of $$ he is looking for on a 30 year old hybrid player.

Same approach we're basically taking I believe.

This is one of the parts of the NFL that truely sucks sometimes from a fans' perspective, and quite frankly I think it sucks from front offices' and teammates' perspective as well when it comes to certain players.

[RavensNTerps]

losing AD is much more like losing Peyton Manning than it would be to losing Edgerrin James. This much is unarguable. People love Ray but they don't realize that the defense literally RAN through AD last season.

[camdenyard]

I would love for us to tag and trade AD, but WNST's Drew made it very clear that would be a tasteless and classless thing for the organization to do to AD. Drew stated that such a move would leave a bad taste in the mouth of current players and any future players, and we should give AD the right to chose his team and not have his next move dictated by us.

I call bullshit on this.

When exactly did the franchise tag, which was agreed to by the Players Assoc., be tantamount to getting bent over and fisted? If AD is tagged, he will make the average of the top 5 at his position, and get millions more per year than he's gotten before. Excuse me if I'm not crying for "show me the money"'s predicament.

And anyone who thinks that he'll play down from his abilities if tagged is nuts.

[crowdog89]

I call bullshit on this.

When exactly did the franchise tag, which was agreed to by the Players Assoc., be tantamount to getting bent over and fisted? If AD is tagged, he will make the average of the top 5 at his position, and get millions more per year than he's gotten before. Excuse me if I'm not crying for "show me the money"'s predicament.

And anyone who thinks that he'll play down from his abilities if tagged is nuts.

I agree CY...didn't the Ravens tag CMac a couple of times?

[Big Meaty]

If AD were to be tagged and traded it would more than likely happen only with AD's prior approval to the team he is going to and having negotiated a new deal with that team. Nobody should overreact about that situation of being unfair. AD will be taken care of. Doing that kind of deal for draft picks is probablty not a viable scenario. The tag and trade definitely works if the Ravens can fill a position of need, like RB. There is a potential trading partner down the street. Rumor has it that Tony is working on an article about that option to see if it indeed makes sense. Can't wait to read it.

[bassgtrst]

Meaty,

If your reffering to the Redskins, maybe we can get a first out of them too!

Betts or Portis??

[festivus]

losing AD is much more like losing Peyton Manning than it would be to losing Edgerrin James. This much is unarguable. People love Ray but they don't realize that the defense literally RAN through AD last season.

Not only is this 'arguable,' it's just wrong. It didn't run "through" AD, it ran through Rex Ryan. The scheme will adjust when he's gone, and it won't have to adjust much. We like to talk about how he can play safety and corner, but the fact is, that hardly ever happened.

I'm not denigrating his considerable talents, I'm just saying, don't make him more then he is.



I agree CY...didn't the Ravens tag CMac a couple of times?

Yes. We could afford it then, and if you are referring to him saying he didn't mind the big franchise payday, he did say that. Now we can't afford it, and even if we could, as TL points out we're probably better as a team taking that same $$$ and investing it on the *other* side of the ball.

:2c:

[The Fanatic]

You can call foul all you want regarding players crying about the franchise tag because it was agreed upon by the CBA, but it's not going to change the way they feel.
Particurally to a 30 year old player.

The key here being his age.

C-mac was younger when he was tagged and still had plenty of opportunity to rake in a big contract after those years he was tagged.
C-mac still had alot of growing up to do as well, and I don't think the FO was willing to cough up major coin in a long committment to a guy they viewed as somewhat unstable.

It is also a hell of alot easier to replace a DE/linebacker in our system then it is a good corner.
Quite frankly, same could be said for most teams.
Losing C-mac was not an option due to his position.

The drop off from C-mac to another fill in is dramatic in most cases.

Replacing AD is not as difficult IMO.
Certainly AD is a rare breed of player, and we'll lose something, but I'm not gonna be sitting in my seat waiting for something tragic to happen because he's not there.

Lose a C-mac, and then you have tragedy waiting to bite you in the ass everytime Carson Palmer, Ben Rothlisberger, Peyton Manning and every other freakin' QB that drops back to pass takes the snap.

[jonboy79]

ok, a couple of things....

Rhodes, a Journeyman caqreer backup? Huh, he has been in the league 5 seasons, all with the colts and he has started for 2 complete seasons... out of 5. His rookie year was during an Edge injury and he got over 1100 yards and 9 td's. THIS year he started every single game. Addai was the change of pace off the bench, he just simply got a larger workload as the season progressed. HE was the first RB in history to gain 1000 yards in a season that they never started even one game.

Secondly - losing AD like losing Peyton?

You my freind are on crack. Losing AD is maybe even along hte lines of EDGE as he is realistically Behind Rex Ryan, Ray Lew, Reed and CMAC as far as importance to the Defense. There is no player in the entire NFL with as much impact on his team'a success as Peyton. AD albeit a very good player, is NOWHERE NEAR that. To be honest with his aging and the emergence of Bart Scott I wouldn't be surprised if next year or the year after he wouldn't even be the best OLB on the team anymore.

Thirdly - Tag and Trade.
Teams will never pay anything for a tagged player... UNLESS they feel like they will get more then one year of service out of the player. Hmm... How would that work out, oh yeah by having a contreact in place before the trade occurrs. It would essentially be much like the McNair and Branch trades from last year, but with a tag, as compared to a single year left on a contract. It would be mostly similar from AD'as perspective about choosing hsi own team, though it woul deat into his payday a bit I would imagine, as a team would have to figure on a first day pict in compensation. So we tag him, and say go test the FA waters pick a couple of teams we will talk to them and then get back to you. They can even work something out so that he really does get more control by allowing the team of his choice to not have to EXCEED the trade offer of others, jsut approach it. That is how you turn a "Classless" tactic into a classy one. AD loves this team and knbows we need the picks with the upcoming purge and should feel liek he owes us the cahnce at compensation. Afterallo if we hadn't drafted him, would he even be in the league today? Probably but I DOUBT he'd be a pro-bowler.

Finally, how will we be without him... Just fine. I think we would still be instantly the favorite for the preseason best defense. You jsut have to shift around and shape up a bit to accomodate. Maybe we are a little less explosive, whatever. We will be light on depth however at OLB/DE. I think the answer actually lies in... get this...

Suggs moves back to OLB, take on a role that is a little more limited then AD had. Cody and JJ(re-sign him) and Dwan Edwards can fight for DE or rotate in and out, Or Cody and Johnson can fight it out at OLB, but the key here is... whomever the replacemetn is, they will only be on the field in the base Defense. In the nickle/Dime packages they will leave the field, if playing at OLB Suggs will put his hand in the dirt much like AD did. If at DE, he'll simply stay on the field. Not a terribly bad quandary if you ask me. Especially if you get a Rufus Alexander in the first or Paul Polsuzny(sp?) in the second. or the like.

Ok end rant.

[bassgtrst]

losing AD is much more like losing Peyton Manning

Losing Ray Lewis and Ed Reed would acutally be more like losing Peyton.

And guess what? That happened and the D still ranked top 10.

Losing AD is NOT the end of the world people. The Pats have let Ty Law, Willie McGinest, Lawyer Malloy, Adam Vinatieri, and Deion Branch all walk and in the years they made those moves they won 3 SBs, won a playoff game and went to the AFCCG this year.

[RavensNTerps]

Except that it isn't. Losing Ray Lewis and Ed Reed would be like losing Harrison and Wayne...Manning would still be good.

AD is hardly the Peyton Manning of defense. But he isn't Edgerrin James replaceable either.

[bassgtrst]

Your comparison is flat out wrong if Im reading it correctly.

Your saying that if Manning were to leave Indy, their O wouldnt be good.

Your saying that if we lose AD our D wont be good??

Im sorry but Scott, Lewis, Suggs, Pryce, Gregg, Ngata, CMac, and Reed still will be just as good.

[Gwaihir]

Don't get me wrong, I love AD as much as the next guy and hate to see him go, but anyone who thinks our defense is going to fall apart without him is definitely doing some pretty good drugs and must not know much about our defense.

Rex Ryan is the key to our defense and as bassgtrst pointed out, in 2005 we lost both Ed Reed AND Ray Lewis and still finished as the fifth ranked defense in the League in yardage!

AD definitely makes it easier on the other guys in the D, but if we lose him, I'm sure Rex will make the necessary adjustments to keep the D in the Top 5 if not still #1!

The problem is we need to get our offense in the Top 10-12!

[RavensNTerps]

Your comparison is flat out wrong if Im reading it correctly.

Your saying that if Manning were to leave Indy, their O wouldnt be good.

Your saying that if we lose AD our D wont be good??

Im sorry but Scott, Lewis, Suggs, Pryce, Gregg, Ngata, CMac, and Reed still will be just as good.


Yeah. And Addai, Harrison, Clark, Wayne, Glenn, Diem, Saturday, etc will all still be good if Peyton Manning were to randomly retire, too.

Of course our D will be good. But it won't dominate like it did this year. It will struggle more to confuse opponents than it did this year, and you'll see a drastic decrease in QB pressure, sacks, and turnovers, IMO. But it'll still be a top 8 or so defense.

And, I'd argue this: Almost all of those guys will NOT be just as good with AD gone. Good, yes. But how many sacks did Suggs, Pryce, and Scott get becasue of AD's prescense? A lot. A staple of our D was lining up AD to confuse the blockers of opposing offenses thereby letting another rusher roam free. Yes, all fine players.

People really don't realize the impact that AD had on this D last year. Our defense in 2006 was better than in 2000, I wholeheartedly believe and stand by that assertion. And the MAIN REASON WHY was because of Thomas. He was the engine that made the defense run. He was the first guy opponents needed to locate. He was the reason Ray Lewis made so many tackles this year (teams had to run plays AT Ray to avoid going at AD and to only a slightly lesser extent, Bart Scott).

People live so much in the past that they ignore what they see in the present. Or maybe they just watch the ball and don't realize what an impact AD has on every single down.

[ExiledRaven]

Defense won't be the same, it's not the same every year.

Remember, we added Pryce and Ngata...that took huge pressure off the LBs. The system here is to eat up the line with our line and not allow blockers to get to the LBs so they can run around and make plays.

AT sure is great at running around and making plays, there is a certainty of that.

The defense will need to adjust. Could they be #1 again? Absolutely.

To be blunt, I'd be a heck of a lot more concerned if we were losing Kelly Gregg or Cmac this offseason....especially Cmac. CB for the Ravens is one of the most demanding defensive positions in the NFL. You can be on an island without even realizing it as Rolle was many times this year when he got burned when expecting safety help.

I'd be more than a little ancy at having Bannan/Edwards/Franklin in for Kelly Gregg or Ogelsby or Ivy in for Cmac all year than replacing AD.

We also have the draft, and we're surely needing depth at linebacker with really only Mike Smith, Dennis Haley, and special teams ace Gary Stills.

The one thing we can all be happy about is that Rex Ryan is still our defensive coordinator. Has the guy ever gave us a reason to doubt his preparation and planning?

We'll see something new in '07 and love our defense once again.

[Gwaihir]

The one thing we can all be happy about is that Rex Ryan is still our defensive coordinator. Has the guy ever gave us a reason to doubt his preparation and planning?

We'll see something new in '07 and love our defense once again.


:iagree: Absolutely!

[bassgtrst]

Or maybe they just watch the ball and don't realize what an impact AD has on every single down.

I realize the impact that AD had on every down. I understand how he helped our D. I appreciate AD, trust me.


People live so much in the past that they ignore what they see in the present.

Funny isnt it you who states:


it won't dominate like it did this year. It will struggle more to confuse opponents than it did this year, and you'll see a drastic decrease in QB pressure, sacks, and turnovers, IMO. But it'll still be a top 8 or so defense.


Sounds like your a big fan of the horrible offense paired with the dominate D. That hasnt worked since 2000 and its not going to work again.

Take your own advice, look to the future. AD (while a great player and person) is NOT worth mortgaging the future for. We are going to need to work on the running game this offseason. A great D is worthless w/o a running game.

[festivus]

RavensNTerps, everyone says he's good. Nobody *wants* him to go.

It's part of the business of football. Our defense has too many studs to keep them all together.

It's hard to be the best, but we try.

Have a cold one and think of AD, wish him the best. :toast:

We'll be fine, you'll see.

[RavensNTerps]

Our offense sucked of its own volition this year. Seriously, there's not many people we could sign that would improve our O dramatically anymore. We're not talking the days of Travis Taylor and Clarence Moore as your 1-2 punch. There isn't a RB on the market who will be so pricy that signing AD would prevent us from signing him.

Our offense HAS weapons now. Heap, Clayton, Mason, and Williams. They are all under contract, none of them (unless Mason bitches hard enough) will not be here next year no matter what happens with AD.

So it isn't an offense vs. defense thing. The offensive pieces are in place and will not change (excpet money cleared up from bye bye to Jamal). AD is the best player on the best defense in football.

I would do everything I can to keep him even if it meant trading a Ray Lewis (older, more wear and tear, and does less for the team). Would you trade Derrick Mason if it meant keeping Todd Heap?

[festivus]

Would you trade Derrick Mason if it meant keeping Todd Heap?

Moot. That has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

Try these questions, instead:
Will you resign Tony Pashos? Ovie Mughelli? Will you add depth at guard, and tackle, and maybe even make a run at Eric Steinbach of Cincinnati? Will you cut and then try to resign Jamal Lewis at a discount rate? Even on defense, will you sacrifice Jarret Johnson?

Will you make all these sacrifices, at all these positions, just to have AD for *one* year, or will you give all these players up forever?

[purplepoe]

Sigh.

The Ravens losing AD vs. the Colts losing Manning?

I love AD but that comparison isn't in the same zip code. Hell, area code.

:grbac:

PP

[RavensNTerps]

i was exaggerating, but my point is that everyone knew the RB was expendable in the Colts system. AD isn't the equivalent of James, he's CLOSER to equalling the loss of Manning than he is James...we'll call it a draw and say that it would be CLOSEST to losing Harrison.

[GreenWave52]

Sorry RNT, but I disagree with you. I don't think there will be more than a 5 point drop in our defense (from #1-#6). I gave myself a cushion, I really think we'll be between 2-4.

I love what AD does but comparing him to Peyton Manning (1st ballot HOFer) and Marvin Harrison (1st ballot HOFer) is a stretch. He is not their defensive equivalant. Ray Lewis in his prime was.

People think that losing AD is going to destroy us. Do our fans not remember history? We lost in 1 season: Goose, Adams, McCrary, Sharper, Woodson, and Starks in one season along with our brilliant DC, Marvin Lewis. And we replaced all of them with inferior talent. Quite frankly losing just Sharper (who is wildly underrated, he led the league in tackles one year) and one of those other guys is the same as losing AD. Disagree with that but I know you cannot argue that he is more important than all of them together.

So after losing all these guys, how far did we fall? Something like 10 spots, I think we ended up around 13th. Statistically a slightly above middle of the pack defense although they always played scrappy ball. And you know what, we survived ok with that group. If we can get by with only Ray, Boulware, McAlister, Reed, and a bunch of rookies (and/or scrubs) we will certainly be ok with 10 of 11 returning starters of the #1 D in the league.

In fact I guarantee that almost every other team would trade their D's straight up for our 10 of 11 starters.

We need to use the money AD deserves to fix the near complete overhaul of the offense. We are so close to being a complete team, now is not the time to lose sight of that.

[RavensNTerps]

You and most fans just underestimate him because he has only REALLY come on in the past 2 seasons.

He is every bit (and I might argue POSSIBLY moreso) the player that Ray Lewis was in 2001. It isn't popular because:

1. Ray was superbowl MVP
2. Ray was the best player on our D for years and years (no argument here)
3. Ray is still on teh team and playing at a relatively high level, so people overrate his importance on the CURRENT team and thereby underrate the importance of other key players like AD

4. AD has only really started doing his thang under Rex Ryan, who took over last year, during which we went 6-10 so his accomplishments for 1/2 of his "big years" got overlooked by many folk.

[ravenwoman]

Everybody loves AD. But this whole thing is becoming like a cult or something. AD was probably one of the greatest all around players in the NFL. But our system will adjust. It's the next man up theory. AD deserves his payday and he will get it, because the Ravens are not going to franchise him or trade him or transition him. It's time for him to leave the nest and it's the right thing to do.

[RavensNTerps]

I just think it would be more prudent to trade a Ray Lewis and keep AD. That's all. AD at this point is a much (not a little bit, a lot) better player than Ray is at this point, and, it's sad to say, for the level of play Ray Lewis is DRASTICALLY overpaid at this point.

[purplepoe]

I just think it would be more prudent to trade a Ray Lewis and keep AD. That's all. AD at this point is a much (not a little bit, a lot) better player than Ray is at this point, and, it's sad to say, for the level of play Ray Lewis is DRASTICALLY overpaid at this point.

The Ravens would love to do this if there wasn't a cap.

You can't just trade Ray and all of a sudden have the room to sign AD.

I'd love to do that to if it were possible.

If someone who's more familiar with the cap would chime in, what's the cap hit if the Ravens deal Ray Lewis to a team this offseason.

PP

[festivus]

You and most fans just underestimate him because he has only REALLY come on in the past 2 seasons.

He is every bit (and I might argue POSSIBLY moreso) the player that Ray Lewis was in 2001. It isn't popular because:

1. Ray was superbowl MVP
2. Ray was the best player on our D for years and years (no argument here)
3. Ray is still on teh team and playing at a relatively high level, so people overrate his importance on the CURRENT team and thereby underrate the importance of other key players like AD

4. AD has only really started doing his thang under Rex Ryan, who took over last year, during which we went 6-10 so his accomplishments for 1/2 of his "big years" got overlooked by many folk.


RnT, nobody disagrees with anything here, besides the part about underrating AD. Everybody knows he's terrific, and everybody wishes him the very best.

To quote the philosopher William "Bill" Munny, "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."

You can check out some more interesting material about Munny here (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105695/). My point being, AD is an important part of our defense vintage 2006. The 2007 vintage will not be the same, but in Baltimore we always seem to have a good bottle.

[jonboy79]

If someone who's more familiar with the cap would chime in, what's the cap hit if the Ravens deal Ray Lewis to a team this offseason.
PP

From B-more Ravor's post, in x's and o's.

Ray Lewis:

2007 cap number: $9.429M
Unaccounted for bonus shares that will accelerate: $5.858M

2007 cap savings if released/retires: $3.571M

So theoretically it helps a little, coupled with(from same post):
Jamal Lewis:

2007 Cap number: $11.667M
Unaccounted for bonus shares that will accelerate: $3.333M

2007 Cap savings if/when released: $8.334M

Vincent:

2007 cap number: $2.017M
Unaccounted for bonus shares that will accelerate: $417K

2007 cap savings if released/retires: $1.6M

And potentially a little more from JO or Flynn... Jo doesn't even save a Million unless he retires post June 1st. then:
Ogden:

2007 cap number: $8.791M
Unaccounted for bonus shares that will accelerate: $8.043M

2007 cap savings if released/retires: $748K

Post-June 1st release:

2007 savings: $6.11M
2008 cap charge: $5.361M

Thanks Ravor....
So I assume it's possible. But...

Then Who goes to MLB? Is Mike smith ready? Doubt it, more of a drop=off then Cody or Johnson would be, and much more of a drop=off then Suggs would be at SAM. Move Scott inside, ok Works, who plays Will? We could draft Patrick Willis in the first, but what if he doesn't last?

My point is we have better current roster depth at SAM OLB then either other LB spot and we should be able to produce a starting quality player, at least from last year's roster(to include JJ). I agree though that AD is better and younger and maybe in the september of his career not november like Ray. It would be a tough loss but sometimes it happens.

[purplepoe]

Then Who goes to MLB? Is Mike smith ready? Doubt it, more of a drop=off then Cody or Johnson would be, and much more of a drop=off then Suggs would be at SAM. Move Scott inside, ok Works, who plays Will? We could draft Patrick Willis in the first, but what if he doesn't last?

My point is we have better current roster depth at SAM OLB then either other LB spot and we should be able to produce a starting quality player, at least from last year's roster(to include JJ). I agree though that AD is better and younger and maybe in the september of his career not november like Ray. It would be a tough loss but sometimes it happens.


Good points.

PP

[RavensNTerps]

remember we could alwyas play Bart Scott at MLB in an emergency...or sign some vet for cheap like Polley.

[purplepoe]

remember we could alwyas play Bart Scott at MLB in an emergency...or sign some vet for cheap like Polley.

I know you think Ray is overrated and overpaid, but cmon dude. He played very well last season and was a big part of the D still.

He's not just some replaceable part.

AD is younger and better, yes.

It's a shame that we could possibly lose AD, but this FO isn't gonna do backflips and outlandish stuff to keep him.

It's not as easy as just trading people to try to free up some cap space for him. He plays a position that we're already heavily invested in and on the side of the ball where we spend the most money.

We all want AD to be a Raven for the next 5 years, but it might not happen.

PP

[RavensNTerps]

I'm not saying that Ray Lewis SUCKS. But he had a good year, not a dominant year, and hasn't had a dominant year in 4 seasons or so, but is still the highest paid MLB in football.

Ask yourself this: Did Ray Lewis do THAT much more (if any) than guys like London Fletcher, Al Wilson, or hell...even Demeco Ryans. At least did he do enough better to warrant the drastic difference in salary that he commands?

This much is not debatable, IMO...Ray is DRASTICALLY over paid, and because of that we are going to (potentially) lose the guy, who, in my OPINION, is far and away the best player on defense? And the stuff about how he makes other players better is dramatically over played. To be honest he was a huge part in alienating the locker room during the 2005 season. His public image may be that of a wild dog and leader, but over the course of the last 3 seasons he seems to be increasingly more about himself and himself only. Even if he does make "the players around him" better, is he worth that much more money than any other MLB in the league??

I know you don't like comparing it to the colts, but let's put it this way: Not comparing the players as the defensive counterparts or anything like that, but just in terms of importance...would you pay Edge James MORE than Peyton Manning?

Would you be happy if because James was the highest paid RB in the league, you weren't able to re-sign Peyton when his contract ran out?

That is similar to how I feel this situation is.

Ray is an above average to good middle linebacker. Thomas is the most versatile and dangerous defensive player in the league...in my opinion.

Yet the former's overinflated salary is a large part of us not re-signing the latter.

Seems unfair.

[purplepoe]

I'm not saying that Ray Lewis SUCKS. But he had a good year, not a dominant year, and hasn't had a dominant year in 4 seasons or so, but is still the highest paid MLB in football.

Ask yourself this: Did Ray Lewis do THAT much more (if any) than guys like London Fletcher, Al Wilson, or hell...even Demeco Ryans. At least did he do enough better to warrant the drastic difference in salary that he commands?

This much is not debatable, IMO...Ray is DRASTICALLY over paid, and because of that we are going to (potentially) lose the guy, who, in my OPINION, is far and away the best player on defense? And the stuff about how he makes other players better is dramatically over played. To be honest he was a huge part in alienating the locker room during the 2005 season. His public image may be that of a wild dog and leader, but over the course of the last 3 seasons he seems to be increasingly more about himself and himself only. Even if he does make "the players around him" better, is he worth that much more money than any other MLB in the league??

I know you don't like comparing it to the colts, but let's put it this way: Not comparing the players as the defensive counterparts or anything like that, but just in terms of importance...would you pay Edge James MORE than Peyton Manning?

Would you be happy if because James was the highest paid RB in the league, you weren't able to re-sign Peyton when his contract ran out?

That is similar to how I feel this situation is.

Ray is an above average to good middle linebacker. Thomas is the most versatile and dangerous defensive player in the league...in my opinion.

Yet the former's overinflated salary is a large part of us not re-signing the latter.

Seems unfair.


Unfair? The Ravens signed Ray to the deal. You can't go around looking for "fairness" in the NFL.

Look, Rolle's salary and cap number is huge. Why aren't you wanting to move him? He had a very average to below average year, wouldn't you say?

There are others on this team that you could say are "overpaid", yet you want to get rid of Ray? Yea, let's just sign Tommy Polley.

If the Ravens can sign AD, they most certainly will. It's just the reality of the NFL these days that you lose players that you want to keep.

When have you ever seen a team trade a guy to keep another? It just doesn't happen because it's a very difficult thing to do.

You say it's not debateable that Ray is overpaid, yet you said it's your opinion. Ray is the leader of this D. The players still say it and the coaches still say it. You don't like the guy and it's apparent. That's fine. But he's not getting dealt.

PP

[RavensNTerps]

The difference- linebackers are consistently the deepest part of our roster, year in and year out. Behind Samari Rolle, we have no one worth a damn. We are paying a premium on him so we don't have to start a guy like Oglesby.

Plus, in general, cornerbacks are more expensive than middle linebackers.

It's not that I don't LIKE ray, per se, but just that I see him as a barrier to keeping our better players around and it isn't worth it anymore.

[RavensNTerps]

Probably worth its own thread, but Donnie Edwards was just on ESPN News and totally TRASHED A.J. Smith and maintained that there is literally a 0% chance that he is a Charger next year...

Now THIS is an intriguing guy to bring in IF we do lose AD (or, more preferably to me, deal Ray). He would replace some of that veteran leadership, and is one hell of a player, despite being old.

[purplepoe]

Probably worth its own thread, but Donnie Edwards was just on ESPN News and totally TRASHED A.J. Smith and maintained that there is literally a 0% chance that he is a Charger next year...

Now THIS is an intriguing guy to bring in IF we do lose AD (or, more preferably to me, deal Ray). He would replace some of that veteran leadership, and is one hell of a player, despite being old.

There's something going on there. Edwards and Smith have been at each other for years.

Smith has repeatedly tried to move Edwards even though Edwards is a good player and a popular one as well.

Smith has made some great personnel moves over the years, but he must be a real headache to work with.

PP

[jonboy79]

This is going to sound odd, but re-signing AD would hurt our chances at re-signing what to me has nwo become a more important player of ours. Pashos is a necessity to sign, much, much more importnat to the success of this team then is AD. We have such lttle deoth at the OLINE and continuity is the biggest predictor of success, so...

I came to terms a while ago(before the season started( that AD would be moving on, but now as I sit here I jsut cannot fathom how far the team would fall if We fail to re=sign Pashos then Ogden decides to hang 'em up in camp. We could go right back to 6-10 like that.

[festivus]

:iagree:

Nailed it. AD is important, but not as important as a combined Tony Pashos, Ovie Mughelli, Jarret Johnson, etc. The stakes are too high to be sentimental.

The goal is to *win*, not to field the world's most dominant crew of linebackers for the nth year in a row.