Your SIX Untouchable Ravens

[PurpleRulz]

This moring Bruce and Aaron talked about how there are probably six players on a given team that are untouchable in regards to cap consideration and desires to retain them each season. There others are considered interchageable depening on how much that player cost, etc. So, who are your six Ravens that you would currently keep at the expense of others on the team who could stay or go. In other words, these are six players you'd make a priority to keep over other players.

I won't include any player that has started his rookie deal in the past two seasons as they will be under our control for at least the next 3 or 4 seasons.

My current six untouchable Ravens are:

1. Bart Scott
2. Todd Heap
3. Ray Lewis
4. Ed Reed
5. Terrell Suggs
6. CMAC

Post 2008, those guys would be:

1. Bart Scott
2. Haloti Ngata
3. Mark Clayton
4. Demetrius Williams
5. Dawan Landry
6. Todd Heap

[UKRavenStockers]

My six untouchable Ravens:

1. Kelly Gregg
2. Mark Clayton
3. Ed Reed
4. Todd Heap
5. Bart Scott
6. Terrell Suggs

Gregg's the oldest guy on that list and would be replaced by Ngata in a few years if he develops as expected.

[RavensNTerps]

1. AD (not even close)
2. McAlister
3. Reed
4. Ogden (despite possible retirement and everything, still the most important piece on offense as of this date)
5. Heap
6. Pryce

[UKRavenStockers]

Ogden I didn't have on my list because of his impending retirement potentially, obviously if he's not retiring then he's untouchable even if it's just for one more year.

Pryce I left off simply because I just don't think you can be certain whether he's kicked that nasty injury habit for good, or whether it was just a one year thing.

[bassgtrst]

1. AD (not even close)

Funny you'd say that since AD is on his way out.

I would say:

(In no Order)

Ray Lewis
Steve McNair
Heap
CMAC
Suggs
Reed

[PurpleRulz]

You can't include AD as he is not under contract and won't be here next season. I should have said that in the beginning.

[Mista T]

Six untouchables?

in order:

1. Adalius Thomas
2. Todd Heap
3. Jon Ogden
4. Chris McAlister
5. Ray Lewis
6. Ed Reed

[RavensNTerps]

AD, if on the untouchable list, by definition will NOT be playing elsewhere next season...we shall see though.

[GreenWave52]

Ray
Reed
Suggs
Ngata
Heap
Clayton

[ExiledRaven]

Ngata
Pryce
Suggs
Cmac
Reed
Clayton

[festivus]

Ray Lewis - the quarterback of the defense
Mark Clayton - young, talented, 100% class
Haloti Ngata - the rising centerpiece of our defensive line, also a position where we lack depth
Chris McAlister - a matured, true shutdown corner

Those are my top 4. After that I'll throw in Suggs & McNair, though Heap, Reed & others are right in the mix. Among the older players, I included only the ones who would be *difficult to replace*. Pass rushing specialists like Pryce are good, but replaceable. AD is gone and will a loss, but not a crippling one. The system and personnel will adapt, it's not like he's Ray Lewis or anything.

[PurpleRulz]

Six untouchables?

in order:

1. Adalius Thomas
2. Todd Heap
3. Jon Ogden
4. Chris McAlister
5. Ray Lewis
6. Ed Reed

Okay, let me say this again. DO NOT include AD as he is on the way out and won't be back next year. It is silly to put AD on the untouchable list unless he re-signs with us. Right now, he is not even a Raven. We just have exclusive rights to negotiate wth him until March 2.

[Mista T]

Okay, let me say this again. DO NOT include AD as he is on the way out and won't be back next year. It is silly to put AD on the untouchable list unless he re-signs with us. Right now, he is not even a Raven. We just have exclusive rights to negotiate wth him until March 2.


OK - let me say this again ... AD will be back next year. He's too valuable a member of the team to not work out a deal, or tag him.

You have your list, and I have mine. Get over it.:laugh:

[Gabrosin]

I think that we're making different lists here. The untouchable Ravens based on salary concerns include guys like Ogden, Mason, Pryce... usually newer contracts that still have several years of signing bonus distributions.

If we're making the list of players who are most important for the Ravens to keep in the fold, to ensure having a competitive team for years into the future, then here's the list:

1. Ed Reed - The heir apparent as leader of our defense. Probably the best in the NFL at his position.

2. Chris McAlister - A shutdown corner in his prime who allows Rex Ryan to blitz confidently with man coverage.

3. Todd Heap - An athletic weapon that forces opposing defenses to adjust.

4. Bart Scott - A blossoming star that plays the run and pass well.

5. Terrell Suggs - A fantastic pass rusher in his prime.

6. Mark Clayton - Another emerging talent who moves the chains and can break tackles in the open field.

Honorable mentions:

Haloti Ngata - A rookie with tremendous potential at one of the most important, if undervalued, positions. But one good season makes it too soon to judge him as an elite player.

Kelly Gregg - Again, a great talent at an underrated position.

If I thought we had any chance at keeping him, I'd say Adalius Thomas would be about #4 on this list. But we really don't, and everyone else here is younger and can provide more good years of service.

Of course, our best chance at winning a championship now rides with McNair, Lewis, Ogden, Pryce, Mason, and the rest of our veterans. But to keep our team playoff bound in future years, the eight players on my list are the most valuable ones we have. And VERY few other teams in the league can boast of such an excellent core of superstars.

[WxKevin]

Ed Reed
Todd Heap
Mark Clayton
Terrell Suggs
Bart Scott
Ray Lewis

I would be very surprised if AD is back. He all but said on his show that he is going where the money is and I don't blame him. This is his last chance to cash in. Plus, Ozzie's comments about the mistakes made after the Superbowl really makes me think that the nail is almost in the coffin. Unless Ozzie is just saying that for strategy.

[FadeToBlack]

Without Ray Lewis, do guys like Thomas and Scott even garner any attention whatsoever around the NFL? Same with Jamie Sharper, Ed Hartwell, etc. Ray made the Ravens defense what it is, using just his leadership skills alone, regardless of his eroding skills. He may be the all time greatest inside linebacker to ever grace a football field when you look at the intangibles.

[purplepoe]

1. McAlister - How he's not in everyone's top 3 is amazing. He's taken for granted all the time.

2. Ogden - Sorry, I like Terry and all, but JO was at the top of his game last year and that's irreplaceable.

3. Reed - In his prime and one of the best.

4. Heap - Most dependable offensive weapon.

5. Ngata - Is enormous and has enormous potential.

6. Ray Lewis - Still a top notch player who leads the best D.

PP

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

Without Ray Lewis, do guys like Thomas and Scott even garner any attention whatsoever around the NFL? Same with Jamie Sharper, Ed Hartwell, etc. Ray made the Ravens defense what it is, using just his leadership skills alone, regardless of his eroding skills. He may be the all time greatest inside linebacker to ever grace a football field when you look at the intangibles.


:iagree: I am soooo with you Dude! You must have read my post to TL's AD thread:nerd:

[darb72]

Reed- Best Safety in the NFL, and one of the top defensive players.

Scott- Our best linebacker.

Heap- A top three TE. We can split him out wide and he creates mismatches all over the field.

Clayton- Young, sure-handed WR who gets YAC.

Suggs- Can get after the QB and pass-rushers are a premium in the NFL.

Gregg- What more needs to be said? It's Buddy Lee.

[RavensNTerps]

:iagree: I am soooo with you Dude! You must have read my post to TL's AD thread:nerd:

Just because that's how it used to be, doesn't mean that is how it still is. Plus, you're totally off.

1. Hartwell made a name for himself playing in PLACE of Ray Lewis in 2002 when Ray got hurt.

2. Bart Scott did the same last year.

3. AD was by far the best player on our D last year, and the first guy that opponents keyed on in their game plan.

[Ravenatic20]

Mine: (in no order)
Terrell Suggs
Todd Heap
Ed Reed
Ray Lewis
Chris McAlister
Matt Stover

[UKRavenStockers]

Reed- Best Safety in the NFL, and one of the top defensive players.

Scott- Our best linebacker.

Heap- A top three TE. We can split him out wide and he creates mismatches all over the field.

Clayton- Young, sure-handed WR who gets YAC.

Suggs- Can get after the QB and pass-rushers are a premium in the NFL.

Gregg- What more needs to be said? It's Buddy Lee.

Great minds. :D

[Ravens0587]

darb, no reed, or mcalister?

[UKRavenStockers]

Reed's the first name in his post. :confused:

[Mobtown]

When discussing the cap, I don't believe any player is untouchable.

[RavensNTerps]

certainly not 6 of them...i'd say ilterally only CMAC, ogden, reed (that's even debateable) and AD at this point...and AD is far ahead of the pack.

[Ravens0587]

my bad it was early in the morning

[darb72]

darb, no reed, or mcalister?

It was actually a tough decision to leave out McAlister, and he almost got the nod over Gregg. However I believe that stopping the run is more important than stopping the pass.

[jonboy79]

1. CMAC
2. Reed
3. Heap
4. Scott
5. Ngata
6. Cop out answer of the young OLINE(Terry, Brown, Chester, Pashos... in that order I guess... left to right as well.. ) We need a future RG Grubbs, Blaylock????

So you see no Lewis', Ogden, AD, McNair, Mason, Rolle, Stover... Now I don't want to go on without any of these guys but losing one or two this year and the rest next year wouldn't be so bad.

Also, no Suggs. I think pash rushing is an easy skill set to replace. While he is a great young player, a first RD pick is likely to produce a similar albeit less talented player in the future, and thus would be willing to trade him if, and only if, it allowed us to retain AD for at least 2-3 years, not just a tag alone.
Obviously we would need more help to still get a long term deal to fit under the cap. Cut Lewis, Ogden? etc.

[Gwaihir]

I assume we're talking about for this year only

1. CMAC
2. Todd Heap
3. Ed Reed
4. Ray Lewis
5. Matt Stover
6. Trevor Pryce

No sense putting any first and second year rookie contracts here, not if we're talking about who to keep regardless of Cap Hit.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

I've only seen one person throw out one of the guys in my list...

Reed
Suggs
Scott
Clayton
J Brown
Ngata

[Gwaihir]

I've only seen one person throw out one of the guys in my list...

Reed
Suggs
Scott
Clayton
J Brown
Ngata

That's because he's signed to a rookie contract for the next few years. That's why I didn't include him, Clayton, or Ngata. They all have cap friendly rookie contracts and are a no brainer to keep. The question with them is what to do when their rookie contracts are up a few years down the road.

[BlackOutD]

Easily My Top 6
1. Ed Reed
2. Bart Scott
3. Todd Heap
4. T Sizzle
5. Clayton
6. Kelly "The Heart" Gregg

[dbcw]

In my opinion, these 6 players make the other players around them even better and are therefore irreplaceable for the Ravens.

1. Ray Lewis
2. Ed Reed
3. Steve McNair
4. Jon Ogden
5. Todd Heap
6. Kelly Gregg

[Big Meaty]

Ok, I'll play...

Ray
Reed
CMac
Pryce
Suggs
Ogden

The first 3 are obvious. Ray is still one of the best all around LBs - he played out of his mind against the Colts. McNair also proved that Ray was right. Maybe he didn't handle it right in 2005 but his tantrum got something done. Ray was a good boy for 2 years as the ship was sinking with Boller.

The last 3 on my list are all about the lines. Pryce showed he was irreplacable in this scheme - tremendously underrated. Suggs is now a complete player, not just a pass rusher. Ogden is still one of the best at a position that is hard to fill with a stud. Against the Colts, Dallas Clark and Marvin Harrison had more tackles than media goldenboy, Dwight Freeney.

[postalworker]

Ed Reed

Without a doubt, he is the premier safety in the league, and one of the top defensive backs overall. He's still pretty young, and is the heir apparent to Ray Lewis as the leader of the team.

Mark Clayton

He's developing into a top-flight receiver before our eyes, and is easily our best wide receiver at this point. He's a great character guy, and will always play hard. Exactly the type of player you want on your team.

Terrell Suggs

His pass-rushing skills are what define him, but let's not forget that over the past two seasons, he's really developed into a complete player. He's now a force against the run, and his coverage skills are pretty good. He's also a fun guy, and seems to be good for locker room chemistry. The only caveat with him is that he has a tendency to lose his cool, but remember, he's still only like 23 or 24.

Bart Scott

Bart is a classic linebacker, and reminds me a lot of Ray Lewis when he was younger. He's versatile, a sure tackler, and has a nose for the ball. He plays with a lot of fire and intensity, and backs up his trash talking. Like Suggs, he's a complete player. Great against the run, a great pass rusher, and good in coverage.

Haloti Ngata

Elite defensive tackles are hard to come by, so when you land one, don't let him get away. We've got a dominant tackler in the making, guys. I thought he played better than expected last season, and he's only going to improve from here on out. In the future, he will be not only the centerpiece of the defensive line, but probably the defense as a whole. You win games in the trenches, and he has the ability to overpower any offensive lineman you throw at him.

Todd Heap

It seems like our entire offense, or at least the passing game, revolves around Todd Heap. He's usually the first option on passing plays, and has some of the best hands in the league. Like Clayton, he's a hard-working, stand-up king of player, and leads by example.

I think if we keep those six guys around, we'll be okay.

[21xxxv]

Chris Chester
Jason Brown Like these two though!
Mark Clayton
Haloti Ngata
Mark Clayton
Terrel Suggs
Bart Scott
Todd Heap

[Filmstudy]

OK, I can't resist this one, and I am sure these answers are going to be a tad controversial. To me there are only 2 components to the most untouchable:
1. Who has the most remaining value to contribute (including all elements of leadership and other intangibles)
2. Who is still under rookie contract and thus playing cheap right now (since we are at constant war with the cap)

The 6 Ravens who fit that bill, starting with the most valuable are:
1. Ngata (had a great rookie year in 2006, and plays a big money position)
2. Clayton (big time receiver with 3 cheap years left)
3. Suggs (he's 24 and just 2 and a half months younger than Landry. Lots of great football left)
4. Landry (outstanding rookie year, but 24)
5. Reed (I hope he retires a Raven, and I am sure he'll be a fine defensive QB when Ray finally hangs 'em up)
6. Terry (by a nose over Brown. Terry is 8 months older, and has proven less to date, but plays the higher priced position.)

I would understand if someone put Williams on their list. Obviously, the Ravens have a number of very fine players that have a varying number of good years left, but they will all be fully paid (Scott, Thomas, Lewis, Ogden, McNair, Mason, Pashos, Gregg, Heap, McAlister, Mughelli, Musa, Pryce, and Wilcox). The only players right now on the roster with decent upside potential that I did not put in my 6 are Chester, Cody, Martin, Pittman, Prude, Sypniewski, and Williams. If I had to guess, I would say the Ravens aging corners will force one of those 3 youngsters to step up and play well, and I would say Pittman probably has the best tools, but Prude is definitely ahead of him now.

The Ravens core of young talent is still very good, IMO, but with the number of players that will be squeezed out by the cap/retirement in the next 2 years, Ozzie is going to need 2 more good drafts in a row beginning this April.