Any possibility of drafting a QB?

[BlackOutD]

I know it's a bit out there for us, but with Troy Smith dropping and the likes of Drew Tate and others being there for us, any thoughts of us going there and lettin' them learn under McNair for a year? I don't think it's such a bad call. I know those QB's are not prototypical size, but those kids have rockets and we have had a good knack of seein' talent that no one else does...

your thoughts?

[darb72]

Sure. Right player/right price blah, blah, blah...

I doubt we take one on the first day though.

[ExiledRaven]

I'm with darb...probably nothing 1st day.

Boller may be coming in once McNair is done.

I do like the idea of investigating bringing Carr to Baltimore.

[BlackOutD]

Yea, that wouldn't be necessarily a bad move. Put the man in w/ the right people and he may flurish:thumbup:

[festivus]

No qb this year, I don't think. That's one of the positions we're set at 1/2/3, and none of the can't miss prospects will fall to our slot.

The only possibility is if some raw kid who has slipped through the cracks is sitting there on the second day, we might take a shot. Even then, I doubt it, because of the new 'ready now' philosophy.

[ClericBlackDave]

No way we get one earlier than second day unless someone like Troy Smith falls to us in the 2nd round.


KEEP IN MIND that we did well, so our 2nd rounder is sill so low, it might as well be a 3rd rounder.


Strikes me that if Boller is amenable, he'll be signed to an extension UNLESS McNair comes in next year and looks much better with a year in the system AND says he can / will play another year.


Also remember, his cap number will blow up soon. Even if he wants to play, keeping McNair over year 2 could be problematic.


The money bet I put out there is to see Boller v. someone we draft middle of this years draft or somewhere earlier in next years draft, all depending on how McNair does / feels.


I REALLY hope McNair participates in the offseaon conditioning program. Lord knows he needs it. That, and maybe some of the cream and the clear. I hope he doesn't pull a veteran move of "oh, I have my own training regimen" meaning Mcnair does 10 pushups a day and his wife takes care of him blah blah blah.


If McNair could recover some armstrength, maybe we would have him play out the entire string of his contract. Unlikely though.

[highwater]

I would be surprised if we draft a QB on the first day. If we did, it would only be because we got lucky and someone really good dropped to us, and/or it would mean that the FO has already made plans to let Boller go after his contract runs out, so they are planning for the future. But I really don't anticipate that happening. I think they want to win next year, and burning a first day draft pick on a QB that won't really contribute next season doesn't fit into that line of thinking.

[purplepoe]

No way we get one earlier than second day unless someone like Troy Smith falls to us in the 2nd round.

IMO, Smith will be there when we pick and I say we pass anyway.




Also remember, his cap number will blow up soon. Even if he wants to play, keeping McNair over year 2 could be problematic.

Agreed. He won't be around for more than 2 more years. Depending on what happens next season, it could be his last.



I REALLY hope McNair participates in the offseaon conditioning program. Lord knows he needs it. That, and maybe some of the cream and the clear. I hope he doesn't pull a veteran move of "oh, I have my own training regimen" meaning Mcnair does 10 pushups a day and his wife takes care of him blah blah blah.

See Dave, this is the type of stuff that is maddening. I assume you followed the offseason last year where the problem in Tenn was that McNair WANTED to train at the team's facility but was locked out. Remember? Surely you do. But yet you post stuff like this as if McNair is some lazy vet who doesn't care. You've questioned him before even when I and others have provided exact quotes from him displaying how disappointed he was with the way the season ended. You seem more worried that he's not a "real Raven" because he spent so much time in Tenneessee than you do the fact that he's a warrior and has always given his all. What makes you think (besides you bias against him) that McNair will do pretty much nothing this offseason?

If you want to question his play on the field, Im all with you. He stunk vs Indy. But for god sakes, stop questioning his heart etc.....

PP

[BlackOutD]

IMO, Smith will be there when we pick and I say we pass anyway.





Agreed. He won't be around for more than 2 more years. Depending on what happens next season, it could be his last.




See Dave, this is the type of stuff that is maddening. I assume you followed the offseason last year where the problem in Tenn was that McNair WANTED to train at the team's facility but was locked out. Remember? Surely you do. But yet you post stuff like this as if McNair is some lazy vet who doesn't care. You've questioned him before even when I and others have provided exact quotes from him displaying how disappointed he was with the way the season ended. You seem more worried that he's not a "real Raven" because he spent so much time in Tenneessee than you do the fact that he's a warrior and has always given his all. What makes you think (besides you bias against him) that McNair will do pretty much nothing this offseason?

If you want to question his play on the field, Im all with you. He stunk vs Indy. But for god sakes, stop questioning his heart etc.....

PP


Amen!

[dbcw]

I really like the idea of Troy Smith being a Raven under McNair. From, the few Ohio State games I saw last year, he really seems to have a grasp of the game and was undoubtedly their leader.

I don't like the idea of David Carr. He just doesn't impress me. He seems to be more of a role player than a leader.

[BlackOutD]

I think if Troy Smith is there, we should take him, IMO

[purplepoe]

I think if Troy Smith is there, we should take him, IMO

I hope you mean in the 2nd round at the earliest.

PP

[BlackOutD]

Yea, I do absolutely...not a first rounder in our situation...def 2nd at the earliest!

[darb72]

We did see what happened to Troy Smith when he faced a real team, right?

No way I take him before the fourth round.

[purplepoe]

We did see what happened to Troy Smith when he faced a real team, right?

No way I take him before the fourth round.

Exactly.

That Texas game doesn't look nearly as good considering they went and lost 2 more games. One being to Kansas State.

He looked absolutely horrendous vs. Florida and there's no doubt his draft stock dropped in a big way.

I don't think he's even on the Ravens radar.

PP

[HDDream]

No qb this year, I don't think. That's one of the positions we're set at 1/2/3

Really. Who's No. 3? Anyway, I think it's very likely they draft a QB, probably somewhere between the 3rd and 5th rounds, although I suppose Stanton in the second round is possible if he's still there. Assuming they get one or two comp picks at the end of the 4th round, that's my guess as to when they draft a QB.

[festivus]

Really. Who's No. 3? Anyway, I think it's very likely they draft a QB, probably somewhere between the 3rd and 5th rounds, although I suppose Stanton in the second round is possible if he's still there. Assuming they get one or two comp picks at the end of the 4th round, that's my guess as to when they draft a QB.

Drew Olson is #3. We sent him to Europe to get better, but he's under contract, as far as I know.

[LBoogy]

Drew Stanton is very intriguing to me. With a better senior season, Stanton would have been a first rounder. He's got blue-chip ability. He can just be inconsistent.

Another guy is Trent Edwards. He's got all the tools but, his surrounding cast sucked at Stanford.

I also think I would take Troy Smith no earlier than the end of the second, if it came to that.

[jonboy79]

I was, earlier in the off-season, for a first day QB, i have recently become against it. The way I see it, we just have too many holes to "waste" a pick on a position that we already have good depth. We have a potentially crippling OT situation, Need on the interior line, weak depth at LB and a big need at RB.

Ok, so JO stays and Pashos re-signs, yes then I think QB is in the right player-right price category. If Both are gone, we need some major help, and QB will get pushed back a year. Not necessarily a bath thing as next years class "should" be better.

[BlackOutD]

I just want to see someone come in and learn under McNair for a year...

[hurting]

I was a huge Boller backer when we drafted him. I still think he can become a reliable NFL starter. I just do not thinnk it will be here as he has caused to much tension in the locker room and too many fans 'hate' him.

That being said, I think and HOPE the team has leaned its lesson on drafting a QB in the early rounds.

Hell lts compare the savior of New York Mr Pedigree Eli Manning to Boller:

Manning
Year G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
2004 9 7 197 95 48.2 1043 5.29 52 6 9 13/83 11 4 55.4
2005 16 16 557 294 52.8 3762 6.75 78 24 17 28/184 49 8 75.9
2006 16 16 522 301 57.7 3244 6.21 55 24 18 25/186 33 8 77.0

Wow a completion perventage in the 50s and a QB rating in the 70s for the next coming of Christ. :grbac:

If he was a can't miss QB on draft day why the hell would you want to waste a first round pick on QB. I hope the team takes the Tom Brady/Tony Romo approach. There is no reason with the talent evaluators that we supposedly have that we can't find the next good QB in rounds 4 through 6.


Just say no to QB on DAY 1!

[jonboy79]

You could say since Boller, that is what they have been attempting. Pick Harris, nah he's no good, let him go, pick DA, let him go, Olsen.... Maybe we will find one good enoug to keep and develop.

[festivus]

Just say no to QB on DAY 1!

I disagree. Tom Brady is an absolute freak and an exception. While it's true there are many first round busts at qb, of the successful young qb's around the league, they are virtually all round one & two guys. Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Donovan McNabb, Drew Brees. While round 1 may not be a 1:1 indicator of success, it does give *much* higher probability then round 4.

Plus as Jonboy points out, it's not like we don't draft qb's in the later rounds. We do, as I think virtually all teams do. It's just, Tom Brady was there only once.

:2c:

[darb72]

I was a huge Boller backer when we drafted him. I still think he can become a reliable NFL starter. I just do not thinnk it will be here as he has caused to much tension in the locker room and too many fans 'hate' him.
That's something I've noticed between Haters and "Huggers". I'm not saying you're one or the other, just that your quote brings up the point.

I'm pretty sure I was one of the first to bring up Bollers name over on YBR, but it was as a second round pick. When we drafted him, most of the "Huggers" admitted that it would take some time for him to reach his potential. The scouting reports backed up that observation.
Most of the Haters felt that he would come in and we would be instantly a lot more productive in the passing game. We obviously didn't.

Scape goating is human nature and Boller makes a great one. First round pretty boy from the West Coast with the rocket arm? The one who was supposed to bring balance to the force... I mean offense? He didn't/hasn't deliver(ed) and it's understandable that people who thought of him that way are miffed about it.

[dbcw]

A lot of the "hate" for Boller came when he "won" the starting job over Redman, and showed over the course of his career as a starter that he was hardly an improvement.

Personally, I think he is very physically talented, but lacks leadership, touch on his throws, accuracy, and even decision making. In fact, I think given his physical attributes and knowledge of the game, he could be an interesting project as a situational WR. But that's just a fun dream.

Anyway, back to the main topic. I think another key ingredient to a Super Bowl winning team is to have a leader at quarterback. He doesn't necessarily have to be a Pro-Bowl caliber player, but someone who can inspire those around him. I like Troy Smith and Tyler Palko in that regard. In my opinion, I think the only fault against them is that Smith is from Cleveland and Palko is from Pittsburgh and I doubt either is a fan of the Ravens.

[ClericBlackDave]

In fact, I think given his physical attributes and knowledge of the game, he could be an interesting project as a situational WR. But that's just a fun dream


That is potentially one of the most retarded things I've heard.


You never know what a hater will say nowadays. Kyle runs about a 4.6 40 and that would make him a good situational WR? What about hands, routes, experience?


Just another one of those things a hater says out of his a$$ for the sake of it.


On the Chris Redman front, if Redman hadn't reinjured his back on a hunting trip during the bye week of '02, he probably would have finished out that season and MIGHT have been the teams QB. i think that ill fated hunting trip showed a lack of committment to the team that killed his future with the Ravens and with the NFL.


Boller winning that competition was a foregone conclusion as Redman was damaged goods and coming off back surgery #2 or 3. If tahts a reason to hate Boller, then there are a lot of people I should probably hate in this world, and for a lot of stupid reasons.

[Khaine]

I have always wanted to like Boller. But I have to admit when he steps back and launches one I watch through my fingers and cringe in anticipation.

If he could gain a little more control over his throws and most importantly learn the art of BBC (ref: Pulp Fiction “Bi#$@% be cool) I still think he could be a fine QB. Unfortunately there are a lot of haters in out fanbase - a fact I personally don’t like one bit. He may have his problems but to boo your own team just aint right to me.

Now there is a very slim chance, but a chance nonetheless that after learning from the coolheaded leadership of Mac9 that he will grow. But when and if he takes the field for us again how much negative vibes will be coming from our own?

[Art-Florida]

Your good deed: Ignore Tex posts and NEVER quote them.

[festivus]

Your good deed: Ignore Tex posts and NEVER quote them.

Art, you should know I was drawn to this thread by seeing you posted here. But I will *resist* the temptation to get involved in the same :brickwall: argument, even though you have tempted me by getting involved yourself.

[dbcw]

ClericBlackDave, I resent you referring to me as a "hater" of Kyle Boller. I am not. For the most part, my last post was merely a continuation of the statements made by darb72 and hurting describing the reasons Ravens fans "hate" Kyle Boller. I was adding my 2 cents.

Even I agree that my idea for Boller to play receiver is whimsical, but that in no way means that I have any resentment for him. Having seen athletic back-up quarterbacks take the field last season as receivers and make catches for their team made me think that Boller would probably like to contribute in such a fashion.

But I guess it was just a matter of time before I triggered a knee jerk reaction from someone who's writings carry an air of vendetta against those who prefer McNair over Boller. Label me a "hater" if it pleases you. Just know that you are very wrong.

Besides, this thread isn't about why fans hate Boller or what should be done with him, it's about if the Ravens should draft a QB. For the sake of staying on subject, I like both Smith and Palko.

I suggest you stay on subject as well and quit verbally attacking people.

[ClericBlackDave]

Boller runs about a sub 4.6. Thats not blazing speed, and not enough to really think he'd be a reciever.


You hear people say these things about the Mike Vicks of the world because that guy once had sub 4.4 speed and would have made a great WR if he was trained to do so.


But in both cases, they are QBs like it or not.


Boller's biggest physical trait is armstrength. Probalbly best, or at least top 3, in the league. The throws like the one to Demetrius Williams are throws that most QBs can't make just based on distance.


But whatever. The topic is drafting a QB. The answer is no.


We have needs other than QB, and you dont' invest in a 3rd big QB contract.


We might need a RT, a LB or two, nickle back? RB? FB? interior lineman? etc.


I'm sure we'll draft a QB. On the second day.

[festivus]

dbcw, I wonder how good his hands are. We have only two quarterbacks on the roster, so it's a complete fantasy you would see both on the field at the same time; we're just not deep enough at that position.

But it's an amusing fantasy. Kyle would do it in a heartbeat, I'm sure. I would guess he'd *love* to line up at WR, or in the slot a few times. Hilarious.

[ClericBlackDave]

Typical, Tex, Typical. You related to WSO?

[RustonRifle]

I believe Kyle Boller will be gone after the 2007 season at the latest. We need another QB to develope behind Mac. I'd prefer the Ravens not drafting one in the first round.

[hurting]

I disagree. Tom Brady is an absolute freak and an exception. While it's true there are many first round busts at qb, of the successful young qb's around the league, they are virtually all round one & two guys. Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Donovan McNabb, Drew Brees. While round 1 may not be a 1:1 indicator of success, it does give *much* higher probability then round 4.

Plus as Jonboy points out, it's not like we don't draft qb's in the later rounds. We do, as I think virtually all teams do. It's just, Tom Brady was there only once.

:2c:

If Tony Romo can prove to be as good as he was last season that would be two very good QBs to come out of the late rounds. I am sure the success rate is much higher in the early rounds as composed to the later rounds, but teams usually have multiple picks in the 4th through 6th rounds to use (waste) each year for a QB project. If the team dies it every year maybe on the 4th, 5th, or 10th try they find that once in a generation QB. My point is that our talent evaluateor appear to be very good at picking late round gems, and although there are way fewer late round gems at QB that safety I still think we have a reasonable shot at finding something there.


As jonboy said:
You could say since Boller, that is what they have been attempting. Pick Harris, nah he's no good, let him go, pick DA, let him go, Olsen.... Maybe we will find one good enoug to keep and develop.

In response to that I say "great keep trying and maybe we will find a Brady/Romo." Hell Romo wasn't even drafted and he appears to be a very good QB. My point is that if the team drafts a QB in the first round he has a very slim chance of living up to expectations and then the fans will 'hate' him for not living up to expectations. If a 4th rounder doesn't live up to expectations fans don't seem to care.

For every Manning there is a Leaf.

For every Donovan McNabb there is a Cade McNoun and Tim Couch.

I saw one of the draft shows last year track the success rate of 1st round QBs and it was about 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 will become a viable long term starter. Those odds suck for a 1st round pick, there has to be a better way.

At least when Dre Olson doesnt pan out we don't have fans cheering when he breaks his leg.



That's something I've noticed between Haters and "Huggers". I'm not saying you're one or the other, just that your quote brings up the point.

I guess if you had to pidgeon-hole me I would be a hugger. But, I really considered myself a wait and see person who thought it would take time to develop.

[ClericBlackDave]

Unless you have a Carson Palmer type who ran a pro-type system in college, nfl QBs are going to need a few years to learn the pro game.


When you look at a Brady or a Romo, they rode the pine. They learned the game . . . Boller didn't have that advantage.


Even Palmer rode the pine a year behind Kitna before taking the reigns.


Boller had to learn on the job, because we didn't have another QB that was worth a squat. maybe he could have sat behind Jeff Blake if things had gone differently.


I bet fans would like Boller better if he had come in for relief of a shitty Jeff Blake.


Overall, Boller's stats over the last 10 games are monsterous. Overall, 100+ rating with 16 TDs to only a handfull of INTs.


The development is there; if you think drafting a QB is the solution, you're kiding youself. The kid we draft will need a few years, just like Boller, just like every other QB, to learn the pro game.


McNair won't be here longer than a year. I dont know if he makes it through '07 healthy w/o Pashos. So even if you drafted a future QB, you're going to need Boller for this new QB to sit behind.


That, or, you can throw the new QB you draft to the wolves like we did to Boller and stunt/slow his development also.


-CBD

[jonboy79]

In response to that I say "great keep trying and maybe we will find a Brady/Romo."
I guess if you had to pidgeon-hole me I would be a hugger. But, I really considered myself a wait and see person who thought it would take time to develop.

Very similar thought process. I think that virtually every single year a team should draft a second day QB, pretty much regardless of the QB's on the roster.

I would pretty much be called a hugger as well, so here is the type of scenario in which I might not draft a QB for a couple of years.
This year in the draft, we pick up say anyone from the Drew Stanton, John Beck, Trent Edwards, Kevin Kolb type of mid-level prosepect. Next he lights is up in preseason, learns the ropes well, gets along, fits in...
Next McNair goes down week 6, down for the season. Boller comes in and leads us to a playoff victory. Maybe not leads us, but manages the game and minimizes mistakes, and makes a play when need be. He signs a reasonable extenstion before the season is done.

Now we go into the next year with an over the hill perfect, thoguh expensive back-up, that rookie that never panned-out, sat behind a true All-Pro and might finally get it, and that young guy that really could be THE GUY. That's not a situation in which you draft a guy, Mac falls off the roster next year, and you go back to yanking 2nd day prospects every year. Any year in whihc you have 2 or fewer solid pro-level guys on the roster, you draft another one.

[sailorsam]

back to the topic...the team's philosophy has always been drafting the best jock available, so I have to thinking picking a qb on day 1 is very possible, depending on what the other teams do (those darn other teams, they keep messing up Ozzie's draft...).
George Allen's philosphy was, start the best qb you can get your hands on/ have a #2 with experience / ready to go in, and have a #3 you can develop. No, Coach Allen never won a SB, but he won a ton of other games. Jurgensen, Kilmer and Theisemann may have been the best 3-deep qbs in history.
I have to think, if the RBT (Ravens Brain Trust) finds a good qb available, they'll take him.

[ed from Bel Air]

I want the Ravens to draft the kid from Boise State --Zabransky. He has looked great in the college games I saw the last two years. I don't care if he's any good, I just want to be able to shout "Put Zabransky in" . Best football name since Johnny U.

[Rochardrik]

Don't you all know starting a qb thread is just going to attract unpleasant posts(Tex) and hate speak(Tex) and Boller Bashing(Tex)?:rolleyes:

[Rochardrik]

back to the topic...the team's philosophy has always been drafting the best jock available, so I have to thinking picking a qb on day 1 is very possible, depending on what the other teams do (those darn other teams, they keep messing up Ozzie's draft...).
George Allen's philosphy was, start the best qb you can get your hands on/ have a #2 with experience / ready to go in, and have a #3 you can develop. No, Coach Allen never won a SB, but he won a ton of other games. Jurgensen, Kilmer and Theisemann may have been the best 3-deep qbs in history.
I have to think, if the RBT (Ravens Brain Trust) finds a good qb available, they'll take him.

You're kidding right? The best 3-deep qb's? Billy Killedmorepasses than "alligatorhands"? Theeesman,Jurgenson. Nary a firststringer in the lot!

[sailorsam]

um, they were all first-stringers at one time or t'other. Jurgy won a ton of games and Joe T won a Super Bowl. Some Cowboy fans get puckered when they're mentioned, but most futbol fans (and media types) I know respect them.

[jonboy79]

Little known fact. Tex has been around since the birth of the big JC himself. He witnessed it with his own eyes, therefore it's true..... He was there for the birth of Lao Tzu, Julius Caeser, Louis the 14th, everyone important.

Just thought you all should know.

[Greg]

Maybe you should do a little research if you weren't around personally to observe players you make totally erroneous comments about on a talk forum! (Just a suggestion).
LOL, this coming from the guy who gave us the "Leaning Eifel Tower" remark?

Please.

By the way, Kilmore couldn't throw a ball through a wet paper bag. Deep threat?

[highwater]

LOL, this coming from the guy who gave us the "Leaning Eifel Tower" remark?

That will always be a classic. :rolling:

[Sports Steve]

If Carson Palmer's younger brother is avialable in the later rounds I would draft him. Not so sure he'll be there in the later rounds.


:jester: :jester:

[Sephy]

If Carson Palmer's younger brother is avialable in the later rounds I would draft him. Not so sure he'll be there in the later rounds.


:jester: :jester:

Unfortunately Carson and Jordan don't really share anything except the last name. And maybe the arm strength. But Jordan just ain't that hot.

[sailorsam]

maybe Carson and Jordan will be another Peyton and Eli. or maybe not.
anyone know how Drew Olsen is doing in NFL Europe?

[Ravens0587]

Unfortunately Carson and Jordan don't really share anything except the last name. And maybe the arm strength. But Jordan just ain't that hot.


And the height