Is david carr worth bringing to Baltimore?

[ExiledRaven]

I've been mumbling about this possibility for a few weeks, but wanted to see what other people thought given that the possibility of Carr being traded seems fairly certain according to this article: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/02/14/carr/index.html

I'm sure everyone's heard of his flaws here and there, but I think coming in here and being co-#2 with Boller might be a good thing for him. I mean, the poor guy has been sacked 249 times while going 23-53. That's not all on him, there hasn't been a decent O-line in houston and has there really been a running game outside Ron Dayne flukishly pounding 2 teams this year?

I just like the idea of having a guy who has been around for a bit that has a lot of potential and let him sit behind Mac9 for a year with Boller and then let the two of them go at it to determine who may be the starter in 08 or maybe even letting Boller go at the end of 08 with Mac9 still starting and Carr starts in 09.

Taking any and all offers and the Texans are a team in trouble with only 1 first round pick in day 1. Might it be worth trading some equivalent of a 4th rounder to them to get Carr? I'm not thinking we should give up a 1st day pick by any means.

Thoughts?

[ClericBlackDave]

IMO, the next starting QB here in Baltimore should be Boller or a fresh start.


I'm not sure what having Carr here at the same time as Boller and McNair would accomplish, besides waste more of our precious cap on a position that is locked up for at least next year.


Thats just another reason I dont see the Ravens taking a QB on the 1st day.


Does Houston trade Carr? I dont know what team is really looking for a QB like that, and I'm not sure why the Ravens would be. I'm not sure who replaces Carr there yet, unless its Jeff Garcia or something.


All in all, I think the QB position is something the Ravens stand pat on in '07/08, and let the chips fall where they may.


At best you see a late rounder drafted, but we already have Olson.

[festivus]

1. Might it be worth trading some equivalent of a 4th rounder to them to get Carr? I'm not thinking we should give up a 1st day pick by any means.

Thoughts?

I haven't watched the Texans much since, um, ever. So all I know is what I read, which is that the poor guy gets knocked down and gets up so often you'd think he was the bad guy in a horror movie.

But I have no problem trading a 4th rounder to get a quality young 2d/3d string quarterback, if that's what he is.

I'll put my faith in the FO on that one, is my short answer.

[RavensNTerps]

that'd be incredibly stupid.

[PurpleRulz]

I would look into a deal to bring Carr here. Maybe a AD for Carr/draft pick deal, or a Boller for Carr deal? David Carr needs a change of scenery and would probably do well here. If Carr were to come here, Boller would then be traded or cut. No sense in having both Carr and Boller as backups to McNair. The Boller ship has sailed here in Baltimore and he needs a fresh start as much as Carr.

I will say that, in my opinion, Carr still has a future as a NFL starter while Boller has a future as a backup in the NFL.

[GreenWave52]

Carr is someone I can see blooming into a great QB when put in a stable situation. He has a great attitude, all the physical skills, poise, and is durable. He was the consensus 1st overall pick for a reason, he can be a true franchise guy.

If Carr was comfortable with sitting on the bench for a year or two, gathering himself, learning from Mcnair, he could become for us a guy that is only a shade worse than Palmer and better than Ben.

If he is willing to sit and rehabilitate his career and the Texans don't ask too much in a trade I would pull the trigger on this.

I read the Texans are looking for another pass rusher I wonder if we could send them a franchised AD (contingent upon Houston and AD working out a long term deal) and Kyle Boller for Carr. Boller and Plummer (who Kubiak wants) could then fight for the job.

[LBoogy]

I would take David Carr in a heartbeat. Word is that Gary Kubiak wants to bring in Jake Plummer to start for the Texans, and let go of David Carr. If a 3 team trade is possible, I'd love to do it.

Carr has the intangibles you look for and has the physical tools. He's been plagued with a horrible situation; he started on an expansion team from day 1 and has had one of the worst offensive lines in football. Receivers have been scarce, and Domanick Davis has been the only guy in Houston that has been able to run the ball--that doesn't say much.

Carr has a bad rep because the Texans are horrible, and people see his barely mediocre numbers. Give him a fresh start on a good team, and I would bet that he would look like a MUCH better player.

He's young and his best years are ahead of him.

Although, I also think that Kyle has a good chance of being a quality starting NFL QB, so take my comments with a grain of salt!!

[RavensNTerps]

again...that is incredibly stupid.

There is no chacne that Carr comes in and performs better than Boller did in relief, so what is the point.

I find it amusing that people forget how damn effective Boller has been in the last several games that he has started or played most of (I'm counting Cleveland and Carolina this season).

In his last 9 games (starts/significant action, as stated above) Boller has thrown, on average, for 220 yards per game. He has completed 57.7% of his passes in this time frame.

And here's the best stat: 16 TDs to 10 INTs in that window. In his last 9 games Boller threw 16 TDs...think about that...that's how many McNair threw in 14 games this year. Furthermore, to the point of the original post, David Carr played in all 16 games last season and only threw 11 TDs. In fact, he has never throw MORE than 16 TDs in a given season.

[GreenWave52]

There is no chacne that Carr comes in and performs better than Boller did in relief, so what is the point.
You can't say that definitively because it is unproven (and more people than just me think Carr is better). But I think you are also overlooking that fact that a large number of Ravens fans hate Kyle Boller (the player, not the person). Even if Kyle QB'ed the team to the Superbowl playing well all season and then had a Grossman like effort in the big game there would be a near riot of people trying to get rid of him.

The fans are done with Kyle and a fresh face is needed, even if he ends up performing no better.



David Carr played in all 16 games last season and only threw 11 TDs. In fact, he has never throw MORE than 16 TDs in a given season.
Carr's numbers in Houston have been pretty bad, no doubt. However he generally plays better than his numbers whenever I have seen him. Also that team has been devoid of talent since they came into the league. Many solid QBs would struggle to put up great numbers with the players Carr has worked with.

[ClericBlackDave]

There is no chacne that Carr comes in and performs better than Boller did in relief, so what is the point.

I find it amusing that people forget how damn effective Boller has been in the last several games that he has started or played most of (I'm counting Cleveland and Carolina this season).

. . .

And here's the best stat: 16 TDs to 10 INTs in that window. In his last 9 games Boller threw 16 TDs...think about that...that's how many McNair threw in 14 games this year. Furthermore, to the point of the original post, David Carr played in all 16 games last season and only threw 11 TDs. In fact, he has never throw MORE than 16 TDs in a given season.


I'm glad someone else is seeing this. Carr is by far overrated. Was the consensus #1 overall pick because it was a QB thin draft.


He's basically a Kyle Boller that the national media has decided to like, while Boller has been disliked.



I will say that, in my opinion, Carr still has a future as a NFL starter while Boller has a future as a backup in the NFL.


Thats beyond retarded. Carr has Andre Johnson and weapons there and can't get them the ball. A lot of his sacks are o-line, but a lot are on him also.


It sounds like you've been listening to ESPN too much on this one. The national pundits give Carr the benefit of the doubt no matter how putrid he plays. Boller can put up 16 TDs in 9 games and is a career backup . . . Carr puts up 11 a season and is destined to be a great QB :rolling:


These self fulfilling prophecies kill me. Please dont let the media do the thinking for you. They are the people who predecide that the Panther are the sexy pick every year, and every year forget about the patriots until late season/playoff time.


If anything, I think Carr's time in the NFL is more limited that Boller's, backup or starter. I think Boller has already shown that he has explosiveness and can put up points. Carr really hasn't yet.

[ExiledRaven]

Nice to hear everyone's thoughts. I had mulled it over mainly because I don't see the team in position to draft a top flight QB prospect in the next 2-3 years which is really when we need to get the new one in. So giving someone a fresh start was an option, along with seeing how Boller does (honestly, I'd be all for giving the kid another chance).

Of course, we might hit a QB later on in the draft, so we'll see.

Thanks again for the comments, nice to hear what other people think about it.

[Art-Florida]

Maintain the status quo this year, we'll be ok. Bring in Colt Brennan for 2008 and let he and Kyle duke it out. If McNair is still around, he can tutor them both.

[RavensDomination]

I think Carr is so gun shy at this point he may never be a good QB unless you put him behind a great o-line.

[ravenmad71]

Yeah I think its something worth checking out. Whether if he comes via trade.. or if he possibly is flat out released ( which I don't believe will happen.) He like Boller, may find a change of scenery which has been mentioned , along with a better supporting cast from OL to WR may very well be the tonic that he needs. We'll have to see what develops. A forth round pick is about right. Anything above that I'd have to pass.

[RavensNTerps]

boller doesn't need a change of scenery to play pretty well...he already has in his last 9 games. In fact, he's performed SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER THAN DAVID CARR over that time frame.

The grass isn't always greener folks.

[bassgtrst]

I would stay away from Carr, and I would stay away from Boller.

I wold like a fresh new rookie to come in soon to learn from Steve.

Its high time to start over at QB.

[PurpleRulz]

Thats beyond retarded. Carr has Andre Johnson and weapons there and can't get them the ball. A lot of his sacks are o-line, but a lot are on him also.


It sounds like you've been listening to ESPN too much on this one. The national pundits give Carr the benefit of the doubt no matter how putrid he plays. Boller can put up 16 TDs in 9 games and is a career backup . . . Carr puts up 11 a season and is destined to be a great QB :rolling:


These self fulfilling prophecies kill me. Please dont let the media do the thinking for you. They are the people who predecide that the Panther are the sexy pick every year, and every year forget about the patriots until late season/playoff time.


If anything, I think Carr's time in the NFL is more limited that Boller's, backup or starter. I think Boller has already shown that he has explosiveness and can put up points. Carr really hasn't yet.

This "logic" sounds retarded. Just because you choose to ignore expert analysis does not mean the rest of the sane world has to. They may not be right about predictions on a season, but those guys get paid major coin to do what they do and it is for good reason. It is because they know sports. Your envy of those guys is hilarious. Excuse me if I'd rather listen to the expert analysis and opinions of sportscasters and sports writer instead of listening to some second rate messageboard dweller such as yourself who pretends to be an expert sports analyst, yet knows as much about football as a bag of rocks.

As for Boller's "explosiveness," the only "explosiveness" Boller has shown over the past four years is how he explodes opon contact with the ground after tripping over his feet for the one thousandth time. Boller is explosive at fumbling snaps and all of this after four years.

[RavensNTerps]

purplerulz-

are you really that naive?

Most people in the sports media know MUCH less about sports than you or I do, I promise you that much. They do their story, and that's it. Then they spew some BS to fill a 3 minute segment and sound like they know what they're talking about.

David Carr sucks. Just because Jay Mariotti or Woody Paige say he might not suck doesn't mean that the numbers are lying.

Boller is a better QB than Carr. Period.

Infer from that what you will about Carr.

[highwater]

David Carr has played behind an even worse pass-blocking OL than Boller had to deal with his first couple of years -- who knows how good he really could be? I wouldn't be interested in him at this point. At least Boller knew how to throw the ball away and run for his life when the pass protection broke down. Carr hangs onto the ball too long.

The Texans are idiots, by the way -- they could have drafted Vince Young, Matt Lienart or Jay Cutler last year, but instead decided to keep Carr (and pay him a huge bonus) and now a year later, they want to get rid of him? Nice planning.

[Greg]

Receivers have been scarce, ...
Andre Johnson is better than any WR Boller has had, though you could TRY and compare to Mason whom Boller had for half a season.

[Sports Steve]

No we can't keep getting QB's who can't make it with other teams.

:jester: :jester:

[Fanman]

I tend to agree w/ SS. But when McNair is done what do we do?

Is it Boller?
Is it a draft pick? (terrible history here)
Another FA?

FM

[festivus]

I tend to agree w/ SS. But when McNair is done what do we do?

Is it Boller?
Is it a draft pick? (terrible history here)
Another FA?

I do not believe the qb of the future is in the fold right now. I have no problem acquiring Carr as a 2d/3d string qb if the price is right, but it's not a position of need so the price would have to be *really* right. Once he's here, if it turns out he's The Guy, that's fine, but I wouldn't spend more then a 5th/6th rounder on finding out. Yes, earlier in the thread I said 4th, I now think that's too high.

I doubt it's Boller but if the FO extends him this off season - which they haven't done yet - then that would change my opinion.

I am hoping next year's crop of qb's in the draft is such that we can get one. Perhaps some here already have a sense of the depth of the qb class *next* year? I'm no draftnik.

Anyway, we have only drafted one round 1 qb before. I'm not sure that Boller's mixed performances over the years, often with really sub-par talent around him, qualifies as a "terrible" history of drafting quarterbacks. We have drafted a few practice squad guys, like Josh Harris, who turned out to be practice squad guys, but that's what the later rounds are for.

Other teams have fared much worse drafting qb's in the first rounds then we have. The year we get the #1 pick, I bet we don't have a hard time drafting a qb then.

[Fanman]

I will expect a lot more out of McNair next year. Although he was solid and a major reason we were 13-3, I was not impressed w/ him on several occasions. When he has bad game he doesn't seem to able to play his way out of it on the field....and really good QBs can do that.

FM

[B-more Ravor]

Carr is going to get looks for some teams that will offer him a better opportunity to start sooner than what we're going to be offering. Whoever trades for him is likely going to have to restructure his deal, so Carr is going to have some control over the process. As such, I think it unlikely that he'd be interested in coming here to serve as McNair's understudy for the next 2 or so seasons. He'll get an offer from elsewhere - Oak, Minn, Mia, KC - that will give him more of a shot at starting, and sooner.

[Fanman]

If Boller has stuck around this long and Billick will be here for a while longer too I would give better than 50-50 odds Boller takes over as starter when McNair leaves. Nobody would know the system better and maybe he will get his nervous tendencies fixed by then.

I would love to see the kid succeed here.

FM

[Gwaihir]

I would love to see the kid succeed here.

FM

:thumbup: Me too!

[ClericBlackDave]

David Carr sucks. Just because Jay Mariotti or Woody Paige say he might not suck doesn't mean that the numbers are lying.

Boller is a better QB than Carr. Period.


Agreed. I find it interesting that fans would rather go with some other teams trash heap QB and have that guy learn our system than see out the investment with Boller who over his last 10 or so games has stats and performance to back himself up.


Vis a Vis recievers, for the whole of his career Carr has the advantage. Vis a vis passblocking, I would say we were equally worse until the final 5 games of 05/06 season.


Overall, if you watch the Texans play v. watching people talk about Carr on Around the Horn, you would know that he sucks at this point.


He was drafted #1 overall in possibly the worse QB class ever and is worse than Boller, who was drafted in the mid 1st, who some people think was STILL too high.


The book is written on Carr; bust, considering his draft ilk.


Boller? We knew coming out that he wasn't a finished product, he was a late bloomer Tedford QB. Now given the 3-4 years and those 32 or so starts, he look a helluva lot better than Carr. And he knows the system.

[Gwaihir]

The book is written on Carr; bust, considering his draft ilk.

Boller? We knew coming out that he wasn't a finished product, he was a late bloomer Tedford QB. Now given the 3-4 years and those 32 or so starts, he look a helluva lot better than Carr. And he knows the system.



Again ! I agree ! :thumbup:

[pyite32]

The fact is Boller's statistics don't tell the whole story. He is not a smart quarterback and has been lucky recently. That being said I don't believe Carr is the answer either. I hope we draft someone in the mid rounds this year to spend 2 years under McNair before shoving him on the playing field.

[festivus]

The fact is Boller's statistics don't tell the whole story. He is not a smart quarterback and has been lucky recently.

Support this argument, please. :brickwall:

[jonboy79]

Support this argument, please. :brickwall:

Just for a point of information I would Imagine that this poster was talking about the two "connections" with Mark Clayton.

As for the topic at hand, Boller is a better match for this team at this time. He, is still a young QB, with experience, in THIS SYSTEM, with these players, and as time goes on he gets bettter and better, while David Carr regresses. Achange of scenery would be a great idea for Carr and Houston, but Baltimore should not be intersted. I am not ready to write the book of Carr though, he could be successful if he lands in KC, ro Minn or Carolina. Also, houston would likely improve itself by shifting to Plummer, while Denver Improves itself in Losing him and moving on with Cutler. It's funny hwo it works out like that sometimes, but for some reason I feel that Boller still has a shot in Baltimore. In fact I'd like to see his contract extended.

[festivus]

Just for a point of information I would Imagine that this poster was talking about the two "connections" with Mark Clayton.

I was anticipating that response, true. I was curious to find out whether 2 nicely tipped passes in the Carolina game meant Boller has been lucky for his last 6 outings. Obviously to characterize his entire last half dozen complete (or near complete) games as 'lucky' is absurd, and logically indefensible. It's just tiring, is all. Hence the :brickwall:

I could go either way on whether to extend him. It depends on fuzzy factors like what quarterbacks will be available in the draft next year, stuff I just don't know. I don't think Carr would be much of an improvement, but as I said, I never really watched the Texans.

[Baltoman07]

I'd stick with Boller too. We might fold a winning hand if we let him go. And for what? David Carr?