This is what a good O Game Plan looks like

[pyite32]

Mix it up, be aggressive, put your young QB in a position to succeed.

I hope cam is taking notes.

[RAVENOUS52]

Mix it up, put your young QB in a position to succeed.

I hope cam is taking notes.


Yeah, but Sanchez's pocket presence, mobility and decision making are noticeably better than Flacco's at this point, thus explaining his coach's higher level of trust in him.

But damn, the kid is a gamer. I didn't think after 18 games he's be THIS proficient! Not a liability at all, IMHO.

[effo5231]

Yeah, but Sanchez's pocket presence, mobility and decision making are noticeably better than Flacco's at this point.


That statement is complete and utter bullshit.

Flacco outperformed Sanchez in every single statistical category except yards per carry this season, and even if you compare Flacco the Rookie to Sanchez's rookie year, Flacco still is head and shoulders better statistically, outperforming Sanchez in every category by which QBs are measured.

And Flacco did it with an Oline that is not as dominate, a running game that is not as powerful, receivers who are just not nearly as good, AND less help from his defense. And with injuries that limited his mobility AND throwing ability.

The Jets are clearly a better team than we are this year, but Flacco is without a doubt the better QB.

[NC Raven]

Yeah, let's not get carried away. He has a 12-20 TD-Int ratio coming in.

[psuasskicker]

Sanchez has been like Eli Manning. Crappy most of the season but really good for the post-season.

Also note that the Jets have two really good offensive plays, and one lucky one (Sanchez not getting killed and hitting the TD) and that's the difference. Other than those three plays, they're having about as much success as we did.

- C -

[Purpleguy]

R52, your Flacco hate is a bit surprising to me. It isn't so much the gameplan as it is the fact that the jets made moves to get receivers that can get open.

Look, everyone except Ozzie Newsome knew we wouldn't go any farther this year than last if we didn't upgrade our receivers. Ozzie chose to stand pat, and the results should be what is expected.

[RAVENOUS52]

Yeah, let's not get carried away. He has a 12-20 TD-Int ratio coming in.

I'm not getting carried away. I said Sanchez was better in specific areas, not overall. Although that may prove to be true in the future.

He certainly seems up to the challenge of going head-to-head with Manning right now. But more importantly, his coaches aren't limiting him.

Again I don't understand all the butt-hurt whenever Joe Flacco's deficiencies are brought up...
If he fixes them, we're golden, but at the moment he's a work in progress.

[effo5231]

I'm not getting carried away. I said Sanchez was better in specific areas, not overall. Although that may prove to be true in the future.


So those 20 picks compared to Flacco's 12 are indicative of Sanchez's better decision making how?

[4G63]

R52, your Flacco hate is a bit surprising to me. It isn't so much the gameplan as it is the fact that the jets made moves to get receivers that can get open.

Look, everyone except Ozzie Newsome knew we wouldn't go any farther this year than last if we didn't upgrade our receivers. Ozzie chose to stand pat, and the results should be what is expected.

This.

[bmorebirds_24]

I'm not getting carried away. I said Sanchez was better in specific areas, not overall. Although that may prove to be true in the future.

He certainly seems up to the challenge of going head-to-head with Manning right now. But more importantly, his coaches aren't limiting him.

Again I don't understand all the butt-hurt whenever Joe Flacco's deficiencies are brought up...
If he fixes them, we're golden, but at the moment he's a work in progress.



I think you are just a bit harsh on Flacco...


Now while I do agree on some points that you make, I think him having a nagging injury and NO WR's that get open or make plays also takes away from his overall ability.

[RAVENOUS52]

R52, your Flacco hate is a bit surprising to me. It isn't so much the gameplan as it is the fact that the jets made moves to get receivers that can get open.

Look, everyone except Ozzie Newsome knew we wouldn't go any farther this year than last if we didn't upgrade our receivers. Ozzie chose to stand pat, and the results should be what is expected.

I don't hate Joe Flacco at all.

In fact, I think he'll be a damn good QB in the future.

But all the Internet excuses anytime he falls on his face (like at the end of the season and in the playoffs) and transference of blame to someone/something else is ridiculous.

If that's not your opinion, good for you. I base my opinion on what I see on the field, not "what if" scenarios.

[camdenyard]

He certainly seems up to the challenge of going head-to-head with Manning right now

Usually Manning is on the sideline when Sanchez is on the field.

[effo5231]

If that's not your opinion, good for you. I base my opinion on what I see on the field, not "what if" scenarios.

Let's see, on the field this year I saw Flacco throw for more yards, more TDs, less picks, higher percentage, more first downs, and I saw him do it all with a fraction of the talent at receiver and tight end that Sanchez has.

So once again I ask what was it about those 20 picks compared to Joe's 12 that made you "see" Sanchez as the better decision maker?

[RAVENOUS52]

I think you are just a bit harsh on Flacco...


Now while I do agree on some points that you make, I think him having a nagging injury and NO WR's that get open or make plays also takes away from his overall ability.

That's a myth. I've seen Joe Flacco play live a total of 11 times (6 home/5 away) and at least 3 or 4 times each game he misses a WR deep and that's not even counting the deep balls he under or overthrows to wide open receivers. Teams now know he's only a threat on certain routes (sidelines, dump offs) and that he's currently not capable of reading and exploiting the entire field with any consistency.

Can he fix that? YES. I personally think he will.

That said, a better receiving corps should boost his growth and build his confidence, and in turn, Cameron's confidence in him.

But the excuses need to stop. Peyton Manning received similar criticism when he entered the NFL and guess what? He IMPROVED each year.

[RAVENOUS52]

Usually Manning is on the sideline when Sanchez is on the field.

If you were the punter/kicker for the Jets, camden, they might just be ahead right now...:grbac:

[Purpleguy]

Again I don't understand all the butt-hurt whenever Joe Flacco's deficiencies are brought up...
If he fixes them, we're golden, but at the moment he's a work in progress.

Sometimes the excuses are legit. How many organizations draft a QB in the first round and never give him any weapons? The Ravens have now done it twice. We have also made some QB splashes in FA like McNair and Grbac and did the same thing as far as weapons are concerned. Then we all sit around and wonder why our offense is inconsistent or just flat out bad. Ozzie can't find a receiver if his life depended on it.

[RavenScallywag]

Let's also look at the talent AROUND each QB...

Flacco has Derrick Mason (posession receiver), Ray Rice(dynamic backfield receiver), and Todd Heap (good pass catching TE)...
Sanchez has Braylon Edwards (stretch the field WR), Cotchery (better than Clayton WR), Dustin Keller (about as good as Heap, but younger), Shonn Greene (pretty dynamic backfield RB)...

I think Sanchez has better tools at his disposal. If Flacco were in this offense, he'd probably light it up too.

I also think Brian Schottenheimer is calling a better offensive game than Cam would've. More inventive, practical plays.

[RAVENOUS52]

Let's also look at the talent AROUND each QB...

Flacco has Derrick Mason (posession receiver), Ray Rice(dynamic backfield receiver), and Todd Heap (good pass catching TE)...
Sanchez has Braylon Edwards (stretch the field WR), Cotchery (better than Clayton WR), Dustin Keller (about as good as Heap, but younger), Shonn Greene (pretty dynamic backfield RB)...

I think Sanchez has better tools at his disposal. If Flacco were in this offense, he'd probably light it up too.

I also think Brian Schottenheimer is calling a better offensive game than Cam would've. More inventive, practical plays.


Ehhh, Braylon Edwards plays like a #1 WR one-fourth of the time... if that. He is tall and fast though, which Flacco needs going forward to be successful. Other than that, seems about even to me since Rice is the next Marshal Faulk.

[effo5231]

Ehhh, Braylon Edwards plays like a #1 WR one-fourth of the time... if that. He is tall and fast though, which Flacco needs going forward to be successful. Other than that, seems about even to me since Rice is the next Marshal Faulk.

Still waiting for you to tell me how 20 picks is more indicative of good decision making than 12 R52...

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Count me in as someone who is not happy with Joe's play in big games.

No, I certainly do not expect him to be Peyton Manning when playing the big boys, but I don't expect Jamarcus Russell either.

He has been outright bad in our playoff games.

[Galen Sevinne]

I am not sure if having no legitimate threat outside of an aging Mason is making an excuse for Flacco. The Ravens have one of the sorriest receiving corps(es) in the NFL and to make a QB comparison under those conditions is being a bit sensational.

Who knows about what the injury was responsible for but I am sure it at least prevented Flacco from practicing and thus causing a lot of the obvious timing problems we saw in games.

I wait until this time next year to start calling the guy out if need be.

[RAVENOUS52]

Count me in as someone who is not happy with Joe's play in big games.

No, I certainly do not expect him to be Peyton Manning when playing the big boys, but I don't expect Jamarcus Russell either.

He has been outright bad in our playoff games.

Agreed.

This offseason has to be the one where Joe makes a dramatic leap in mastering and executing the playbook.

Maybe not to a Unitas-type level (very few do), but at least a Dave Krieg-ish degree.

I'm under the impression that he's smart enough to do it and there's no doubt he has the physical ability, so it's all up to him and whoever is responsible for his progress (Hue Jackson, you listening?).

[Brtnder81]

I'm not getting carried away. I said Sanchez was better in specific areas, not overall. Although that may prove to be true in the future.

He certainly seems up to the challenge of going head-to-head with Manning right now. But more importantly, his coaches aren't limiting him.

Again I don't understand all the butt-hurt whenever Joe Flacco's deficiencies are brought up...
If he fixes them, we're golden, but at the moment he's a work in progress.

his coaches didnt limit him? the jets ran the ball on 3rd-5-10 yrds several times and had the ball with over a min left in the 1st half and ran the clock out. if thats not limiting ur QB i dont know what it

[RAVENOUS52]

his coaches didnt limit him? the jets ran the ball on 3rd-5-10 yrds several times and had the ball with over a min left in the 1st half and ran the clock out. if thats not limiting ur QB i dont know what it

Sanchez certainly wasn't "Dilfer-ized" the way Flacco has been. He was allowed to go deep downfield and make plays, as well as improvise.

The times you refer to were in order to preserve field position for punts or (missed!) FG attempts...:laugh:

[effo5231]

This offseason has to be the one where Joe makes a dramatic leap in mastering and executing the playbook.

Maybe not to a Unitas-type level (very few do), but at least a Dave Krieg-ish degree.


Krieg's best season, I repeat BEST season::

276 for 480 (57.5%) 3,671 yards 7.6 per attempt 32 TDs 24 picks, QB rating of 83.3

(Admittedly he had many seasons where he didn't throw for as many picks, but it seems that in order to get that many yards he needs to be less careful with the ball.)

In seasons in which he played at least 12 games Krieg never had a QB rating over 91.

Flacco's sophomore season:

315 for 499 (63.1%) 3,613 for 7.2 per attempt 21 TDs 12 picks QB rating 88.9

To get to Krieg's level is going to take a DRAMATIC LEAP? Your bias is showing. Care to try again? Also still waiting for an answer R52... how is 20 picks a better decision maker than 12?

[Carey]

Ridiculous assessment! You know y those plays worked? they have explosive players like Brad Smith and Braylon Edwards that can make them work. You try those plays with Mason or Clayton and you get a coverage sack or a forced throw. As far as the rest of the play calling, throws outside the hash, roll-outs, look familiar??? its because we ran those plays with our rookie QB last year! Cam is one of the best offensive minds in the game and its unfair to really criticize him with the lack of weapons. We will get weapons this offseason and we will come out a put up points each week and i hope the same people can admit they are wrong about cam

[TheFlacco]

"and at least 3 or 4 times each game he misses a WR deep"

What games were those again? I don't recall any games in which he missed 3 or 4 deep throws...and I've yet to miss a home game

[RAVENOUS52]

"and at least 3 or 4 times each game he misses a WR deep"

What games were those again? I don't recall any games in which he missed 3 or 4 deep throws...and I've yet to miss a home game

Then maybe you were taking a piss or buying beer or something.

When I say "miss" I mean failing to recognize the deep man has broken free and dumping it off or taking a sack instead.

[afcnchamps]

Krieg's best season, I repeat BEST season::

276 for 480 (57.5%) 3,671 yards 7.6 per attempt 32 TDs 24 picks, QB rating of 83.3

(Admittedly he had many seasons where he didn't throw for as many picks, but it seems that in order to get that many yards he needs to be less careful with the ball.)

In seasons in which he played at least 12 games Krieg never had a QB rating over 91.

Flacco's sophomore season:

315 for 499 (63.1%) 3,613 for 7.2 per attempt 21 TDs 12 picks QB rating 88.9

To get to Krieg's level is going to take a DRAMATIC LEAP? Your bias is showing. Care to try again? Also still waiting for an answer R52... how is 20 picks a better decision maker than 12?

Haha this is so great. Ravenous refuses to answer his question because he knows how wrong he is. It's a shame that alot of Ravens fans will disrespect their own team and it's staff.

I for one am glad we will have a first and a third round pick this year to further build this young team. We didn't make the blockbuster WR trade like the Cowboys did. And our 1st round pick was Oher and our 3rd round pick was Webb while the Cowboys sat patiently to draft Jason Williams who notched a whopping 3 tackles this year.

Sanchez looked good in the two playoff games but has not had a good year. Flacco had a better first year has improved this year. The funny thing to me is we're comparing the 5th pick overall with the 18th pick overall and our 18th pick has proven to be better so far, yet we hear criticism about Ozzie all the time. Even better is that Sanchez makes more than twice as much money as Flacco.

Flacco's deal: 5 years, 30 million, 12 million guaranteed
Sanchez' deal: 5 years, 60 million, 28 million guaranteed

Get out of my face.

[effo5231]

Haha this is so great. Ravenous refuses to answer his question because he knows how wrong he is.

Well R52, you're being called out by more than just me now... care to answer the question?

How does Sanchez's 20 picks compared to Flacco's 12 indicate that Sanchez makes better decisions?

You were quite adamant that Sanchez has better mobility (which I cocede) "pocket presence" (which I've chosen to ignore as a nebulous and undefinable term like "playmaker") and was a better decision maker. Since decision making is the only one of those stats that we can truly measure, I looked at the numbers. Flacco has a better completion percentage, fewer picks, and apparently found the deep man more often based on his greater yards per attempt. So, Ravenous, please stop for just a moment to defend your initial statement in this thread and explain to me how the numbers and final results on the field this year led you to believe that throwing 20 interceptions was more indicative of good decision making than throwing only 12?

[Sua Sponte]

I will have to agree to disagree.

Flacco definently needs weapons, but I think what R52 is trying to compare here is pocket presense not that Sanchez is better, but the fact that he looks confident moving around in the pocket and does move faster on his drop backs and release.

I think Joe is better that Dirty Sanchez (needs a lot of work), but Joe does need some work and rightfully so, just finished his second year. I am not going to lie, if we take a WR or not I expect alot more this year from Flacco and Cam better take the damn brakes off. Also look at the fact that Rex did let Sanchez play more and the result of that was 12-20, but he probably learned more with that 12-20, than Joe did with Cam's BS vanilla Offense. Another thing I liked about what they did with Sanchez was alot of 3 step drops a release, a lot of Play action and a lot of quick slants to pull the LB's back and keep the blitzes down and the Safeties from cheating up to much.

[psuasskicker]

Why is everyone forgetting that Sanchez was horrible for 12 of his 15 regular season games this season? He looked decent during the post-season, but like Eli Manning, a three-game stretch simply shouldn't be a signal that you're ready or deserving of being a $100MM quarterback. The Giants are going to pay that price for years to come. At least the book is still out on Sanchez, but let's not pretend here that Sanchez can come close to having accomplished what Flacco's done on the field to this point in their respective careers.

- C -