And people wonder why we call them the "Clowns" [Archive] - Baltimore Ravens Forums and Message Boards

RvnFanInIndy

03-14-2010, 06:16 PM

So, the one QB they have had since they were re-born that was at least slightly successful, Derek Anderson, they outright cut. They QB they draft to be the future of the franchise, the trade for a RB and a pick. They QB they sign via free agency is 35, had the lowest passer rating in the league last year, and threw 8 TDs vs 18 INT. Quick, someone call Stoney Case, he might be able to get a deal with the Clowns.

Here is the link to SI for the move with Quinn:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/03/14/quinn.trade.broncos.ap/index.html?eref=sihp

psuasskicker

03-14-2010, 06:21 PM

You can't possibly hammer the Browns for cutting a former Pro Bowler in DA but then turn around and hammer them for signing Jake Delhomme who had one bad year last year.

Their moves, to me, made fine sense. DA has been godawful other than five games, which I posted in another thread. That includes his Pro Bowl season. Delhomme has been solid except for last year when he inexplicably fell apart. Odds are good he "regresses to the mean" and has a much better year this year.

They're also clearly setting up to draft a QB of the future. Seems pretty clear they're bringing in Delhomme to be a short-term starter for a year or two, while they groom their QB of the future. Clausen? Bradford probably won't reach them, but I doubt they pass on him if he does. Colt McCoy? Odds look pretty good to me they won't get out of the second round without a QB.

- C -

Stealthbirds80

03-14-2010, 06:25 PM

With Holmgren doing this I am sure that a QB is on the horizon for them. Maybe Kevin Kolb or a rookie in the first round. Where do they pick in the first?

Rxdoxx

03-14-2010, 07:13 PM

They pick 7th

Hasn't Holmgren's M.O. been to have a rookie QB sit the first year and learn?
So he has Jake as a so-so adequate starter, Wallace as wildcat and back up, so looks like they are eyeing a QB in the draft.
At 7 though, I'm guessing that Bradford could be 1 for Rams and wouldn't surprise me to see Wash at 4 have Shannahan looking for his Elway (but LT is a crying need there). Seattle at 6 could also be in the market for a QB.

Looks like a circus to figure out (figures they are clowns).
Do they mortgage and move up? are they figuring McCoy will be there in the 2nd? I'm guessing one of their first 2 picks is a QB.

Stealthbirds80

03-14-2010, 07:23 PM

With the acquistion of picks could they be trying to leapfrog the Seahawks to get Clausen. Me thinks we will have a flurry of trades in the 1st if there is a run of any sort or players start to drop. Maybe this works in the Ravens favor if teams start to reach.

Galen Sevinne

03-14-2010, 07:28 PM

I think it is pretty good chain events for the Browns in getting rid of Anderson and Quinn and picking up Delhomme. At least they have a QB now that has demonstrated that he belongs in the NFL while they work on a franchise guy.

Sure beats the scenario that was going around here the other day with Troy going to Cleveland to create one of the all-time bust 3 QB brigades of Quinn, T. Smith and Anderson....at that point I would have been pulling out the "clowns" card.

camdenyard

03-14-2010, 07:40 PM

They just dumped another of their 1st round picks (LB K. Wimbley) to the Raidahs.

Take a look at the first round picks by that club since 1999 and what they got out of those picks. It's unbelievable how bad they have been. Next, thank your lucky stars for one Ozzie Newsome.

RavenScallywag

03-14-2010, 07:52 PM

I heard something sick on the radio today...Delhomme was owed about 12 mil this year from the Panthers. And now he's getting 7 mil this year from the Browns...

Jake Delhomme, regardless of how little he plays this season, is getting paid 19 million dollars.

:grbac:

If I'm Drew Brees or Peyton Manning, this KILLS me

psuasskicker

03-14-2010, 08:52 PM

They just dumped another of their 1st round picks (LB K. Wimbley) to the Raidahs.

Wasn't Wimbley the guy that we swapped one pick up with them to take Ngata and they took him?

- C -

StingerNLG

03-14-2010, 09:40 PM

Wasn't Wimbley the guy that we swapped one pick up with them to take Ngata and they took him?

- C -

Yep.

Honestly, I don't see this as a bad move. It is showing the people of Cleveland that the Browns may actually be moving in the right direction.

If you ask me, Denver is the loser in this deal. They must not have realized 1) There is a reason Quinn was 22nd and not 1st. 2) They apparently suck with the whole "watching game film" thing.

highwater

03-14-2010, 09:43 PM

I don't think the Browns are crazy for cutting DA -- like PSUasskicker said earlier, he really hadn't done much outside of his one good year. I was mildly suprised they traded Quinn, because I thought they would at least give him a chance, but I guess Holmgren had already made up his mind. He may end up regretting that decision.

Delhome is worth a shot, I guess, but the deal they signed him to was way more than he should have received. Who were they competing against for his services? Picking him up wasn't a bad move, IMO, but they seriously overpaid for him. They're probably going to start him now over Wallace just because of his salary, which is a situation they could have avoided by signing him at a more reasonable price.

They're clearly going in a new direction, but so far, it looks like change for the sake of change.

RockGod

03-14-2010, 10:35 PM

Troy Smith is so bad the Broncos picked Brady Quinn over him. They could have had Smith for a 5th round pick and I don't think his salary would have toped 2mil. I guess that Heisman isn't as important as many around here think it is. IDK but I watched Troy play and I never saw why anyone thought he was a NFL qb...

Dave Lap

03-15-2010, 09:07 AM

People were so hung up over whether Quinn should start of Anderson should start that they overlooked the fact that neither should start. Looks like Holmgren was smart enough to realize the Browns need a "do-over" at QB.

RavensNTerps

03-15-2010, 10:52 AM

Beerracuda

03-15-2010, 11:27 AM

Quinn has nothing to do with Troy Smith.

Jeez the fascination and hatred for our backup QB is astounding.

RnT,

Troy Smith brought that on himself when he publically stated he wanted to be traded during week 16, while his team was fighting for a playoff spot. Any player stupid enough, or careless/selfish enough to do that deserves no respect, in my opinion.

RavenScallywag

03-15-2010, 11:42 AM

I think the hatred and annoyances come from all the talk his agent and he have done to say he wants to go somewhere else to start. First it was announcing in the middle of a run for the playoffs how he declared he wanted to be traded...We all knew he'd probably want out soon, but what did he gain by having it announced then? We couldn't trade him until the season was over anyway. Then came the "he'd crawl to Cleveland" stuff...ok, it's nice that he wants to play for his hometeam. But again, what good does making that announcement do. If Cleveland wants him, they'll make us an offer. They didn't, and neither did anyone else because Troy just isn't a guy any team thinks they can build around.

If he comes back to the Ravens, quiets down, and does his job, I'm okay with him sticking around. I know he wants to go elsewhere to start, but newsflash, that ain't going to happen. There are two schools of thought when a team is looking for a new QB...One, go for it in the draft...Two, go with a PROVEN commodity. Troy's best value honestly will be after the draft, when the dust settles and a team decides it didn't get the QB it was hoping for in the draft.

psuasskicker

03-15-2010, 12:09 PM

If you ask me, Denver is the loser in this deal. They must not have realized 1) There is a reason Quinn was 22nd and not 1st. 2) They apparently suck with the whole "watching game film" thing.

You're talking about the team that willingly took on Kyle Orton last year...

Brian Xander and Josh McDaniels are going to be a disaster for that organization. They had an awesome start to their first season. It wouldn't shock me even a little bit if they only win four games this year, and I could easily see McDaniels not lasting very long in that job.

- C -

sailorsam

03-15-2010, 12:22 PM

You're talking about the team that willingly took on Kyle Orton last year...

- C -

I don't think they pushed Orton as much as they wanted to dump Cutler. this move tells us what they think about Orton long-term.

as George Allen once said, you play the best qb you can get your hands on. last year it was Kyle. next year...

Rxdoxx

03-15-2010, 01:03 PM

Something in the back of my mind is thinking that there is a pipeline from Cleveland that ends in Denver.

We remember how it looked like the Clowns were grabbing Ravens and ex-Ravens like crazy?
Has something a little similar been going on with Denver?
Quinn has just brought it to mind and started me wondering, remembering the linemen Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren, Ebenezer Ekuban and Michael Myers.
Is that it or can anyone come up with others, or is that all former clowns that Denver has gotten?

festivus

03-15-2010, 01:33 PM

It was a good move by the Browns. Dumping that p.o.s. inconsistent, inaccurate, arrogant cheap-shotting tool as the face of that franchise was :thumbup: in my book, even if all they were getting in return was a signed John Elway jersey.

ravenwoman

03-15-2010, 07:58 PM

The moves made for QB tell me that there isn't a QB in the draft that they really think is franchise worthy, but they will draft someone in hopes that maybe they can develop them and make them serviceable. Cleveland has a long way to go and with their recent history of picking in the draft, I would say that they have wasted a lot of first and second round draft picks.

This brings me to my second point. The Ravens were very fortunate to get Flacco when they did. There are not many true franchise QBs out in the NFL, and they don't come out every year in the draft. I am not convinced that Matt Stafford or Mark Sanchez are franchise QBs. Truthfully, I don't like any of the QB in this year's draft. The best two QBs to come out lately have been Flacco and Ryan. They have set the standard of what every team hopes for when drafting a top QB.

Tim Tebow is a project, but if I had a lot of draft picks, I might gamble and take him in the second or third round. If he ever were to pan out, you would have something real special on your team. As it is, he could develop into a TE or WR. I look for a team like New England to take that chance.

RockGod

03-15-2010, 10:39 PM

Quinn has nothing to do with Troy Smith.

Jeez the fascination and hatred for our backup QB is astounding.

Troy is an available qb; I'm sure Denver didn't just wake up and say we need to trade for Quinn. There was an evaluation of all the qb's they could get and Brady Quinn was selected over Troy Smith, who like I said would have only cost a 5th round pick and maybe 1.5mil. Brady Quinn cost them a player a 2012 pick plus they probably have to pay him somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-5mil for next season.

All I'm saying is there were a lot of people that wanted Troy Smith to be our starter when it's obvious the guy isn't that good. I think about times like when the Ravens did everything but give him the starting job and he still could separate himself from Kyle Boller. Harbaugh said "Troy I'm going to let you start in this pre-season game to show me you can be our starter, if you need the whole game to show us that's what I'm going to give." Do you remember what happen? He got benched before half time...lol he couldn't even last a whole half of a pre-season game. Do you remember his first start against Seattle? 1 first down in the first half? It was by far the worst first start I've ever seen a qb have and that saying something.

I don't have any hate for the guy, I think he's an arrogant jackass but I don't hate him I just wish he wasn't on this team. When 32 teams pass on you 4 times, some of them passed on him 5 times and Brady Quinn gets picked over you, that should tell you that you’re the bottom of the barrel.

RavensNTerps

03-16-2010, 09:09 AM

Troy is an available qb; I'm sure Denver didn't just wake up and say we need to trade for Quinn. There was an evaluation of all the qb's they could get and Brady Quinn was selected over Troy Smith, who like I said would have only cost a 5th round pick and maybe 1.5mil. Brady Quinn cost them a player a 2012 pick plus they probably have to pay him somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-5mil for next season.

All I'm saying is there were a lot of people that wanted Troy Smith to be our starter when it's obvious the guy isn't that good. I think about times like when the Ravens did everything but give him the starting job and he still could separate himself from Kyle Boller. Harbaugh said "Troy I'm going to let you start in this pre-season game to show me you can be our starter, if you need the whole game to show us that's what I'm going to give." Do you remember what happen? He got benched before half time...lol he couldn't even last a whole half of a pre-season game. Do you remember his first start against Seattle? 1 first down in the first half? It was by far the worst first start I've ever seen a qb have and that saying something.

I don't have any hate for the guy, I think he's an arrogant jackass but I don't hate him I just wish he wasn't on this team. When 32 teams pass on you 4 times, some of them passed on him 5 times and Brady Quinn gets picked over you, that should tell you that you’re the bottom of the barrel.

I don't see how it's "obvious" that Troy isn't any good. He's played pretty well in the times he's seen action. Anyone who's able to form an opinion one way or another about his ability is a liar. If you think he's an asshole, that's fine. But don't say its obvious he sucks.

festivus

03-16-2010, 09:15 AM

RavenScallywag

03-16-2010, 09:29 AM

I don't see how it's "obvious" that Troy isn't any good. He's played pretty well in the times he's seen action. Anyone who's able to form an opinion one way or another about his ability is a liar. If you think he's an asshole, that's fine. But don't say its obvious he sucks.

To be fair to Troy...most of the QB moves that have occurred are more around backups. Think about it...49ers get David Carr to be a backup to Alex Smith. Lions trade for Shaun Hill to back up Stafford. Denver obtains a QB which is the backup (per Josh McDaniels anyway) to their current QB. The only organization which went out to get a new starter at QB was the Browns, and Holmgren is a guy who loves the draft. Delhomme, Wallace, these are not long term options as starters. These are stop gap guys so Cleveland can grab a franchise QB early in the draft. So, while he's available for a VERY low price, no one is really looking to bring on someone who expects a chance to compete and be the long term starter. You can only argue that with Denver, and if it's Quinn vs Troy, Quinn might have worse results right now, but he also has a TON more playing time and arguably a higher QB pedigree.

Troy has not shown me he can be a starting QB. You've really only got a couple games his rookie year and one or two preseason games the year after to judge him on. Did he move the ball well? Yes. Did he display the tools to be a 3000-4000 yard QB? No. Did he have the tools around him to do that? No way. Since then, when we have gotten more tools, there's just no shot for Troy to unseat Joe here.

I still think his best market is going to be post-draft, if a team misses on the QB they really wanted, he could have a shot to come in and be the backup plan for them.

Sua Sponte

03-16-2010, 09:39 AM

I don't know what all the hype is over Smith, If you guys have been paying attention John Beck received a higher tender than Troy Smith. Yes he is an idiot for even mentioning the word trade during a run for the playoffs.

John Beck 2nd rd Tender
Troy Smith 5th rd Tender

So it is only obvious that the FO was trying to give him is wish and ship him for a pick. With that said does Beck jump over Smith for the #2 spot at QB. One would think with that Tender difference

psuasskicker

03-16-2010, 09:58 AM

I don't see how it's "obvious" that Troy isn't any good. He's played pretty well in the times he's seen action. Anyone who's able to form an opinion one way or another about his ability is a liar. If you think he's an asshole, that's fine. But don't say its obvious he sucks.

Why are you - and so many others - so willing to simply dismiss the unspoken yet obvious opinions of the professional football coaches and front office personnel that tell you exactly how valuable these guys are? You act like we have no indication as to whether or not Troy Smith is a viable NFL QB.

Reality is this:
- He's had three years to become a legit starter.
- Last year, the Ravens had so much confidence in his ability, they signed Beck and have been shopping Troy.
- No one could care less that we're shopping him.

You think the Broncos didn't pop in some tape somewhere to make a professional evaluation of whether or not Smith was a better option than Quinn? You think the Ravens haven't done a thorough evaluation of how valuable this guy is in the three years they've seen him in practice every day during the non-off-season?

Whether or not we've seen it on the field absolutely doesn't matter. I can say with confidence that the odds Troy Smith can become a legitimate starting quarterback in this league is maybe 1% if he's really, really lucky. The NFL is screaming loud and clear whether or not this guy has the ability to do that or not. The problem is, you're simply choosing not to listen.

Is it possible he could play? Yeah. Those rare exceptions to the rule do happen. But in reality, it's way more likely he's not capable of it.

- C -

Dave Lap

03-16-2010, 02:23 PM

RavenScallywag

03-16-2010, 02:35 PM

Troy and Beck enter that weird 2 and 2a status that teams who want a "Wildcat" QB end up having, like Miami...

Consider, they drafted Pat White to be an "all-purpose" player, like a RB, WR, QB etc. So if they want him on gameday, he can't be the emergency QB. Thus, your depth chart last year was Pennington, White, and Henne as the 3rd emergency QB.

Obviously, when Pennington got injured, Henne was the guy who took over the starting job. But White was officially the #2 QB on gameday so they could use him on offense in plays here and there.

So Troy will likely be the #2 QB on gameday, but the argument has always been that Beck is likely here to be the injury replacement if Flacco went down. More because he's in the same guise as Flacco than Troy is.