Who is the better No. 89, Taylor or Clayton?

[TL24x7]

Travis Taylor is generally recognized as one of the Ravens few first round flops. The former Florida Gator wide receiver fell far short of his professional projection and in large part his failures in Baltimore and ports of call elsewhere are centered upon toughness or lack thereof.

The Ravens learned a hard lesson with Taylor and the team would like to think that it would not repeat that 2000 NFL Draft mistake again. Some might argue that Ozzie Newsome and company were repeat offenders in 2005 when they drafted Mark Clayton.

Clayton has hardly developed into the playmaking receiver that the team expected and some might say that at best he’s an adequate No. 2 receiver at the NFL level.

Because of his overall likability and perceived toughness when compared to Taylor, Clayton isn’t as quickly labeled a first round bust the way Steve Spurrier product is yet statistically speaking, the argument could be made that both players who have worn the No. 89 for the Ravens are equally disappointing.

Consider their respective career statistics as Ravens:

Player - Rec. - YDS - Avg. - TD

Taylor - 204 -2,758 - 13.5 - 15
Clayton - 234 - 3,116 - 13.3 - 12

More on this argument here (http://ravens24x7.blogspot.com/2010/04/ravens-should-never-allow-first-round.html)

[psuasskicker]

Answer: C, none of the above

- C -

[camdenyard]

What tastes better, rotten maggot infested fish or a shit sandwich?

[CRZA938]

For all of Ozzie's success, these were two really bad misses.

[Jeremiah W]

The expectations for the 10th pick had to be a lot higher than those placed on Clayton. Neither one turned into a #1 WR or turned out to be worthy of the 1st round pick, but I have no problem with Clayton other than he was overdrafted. Taylor was a guy who could not wait to fall down after the catch.

I love Clayton as a blocker and occasional playmaker. He is a good player, just should not be starting, although with him in the starting lineup with a legit Qb, the Ravens have won a lot of games.

[jonboy79]

The expectations for the 10th pick had to be a lot higher than those placed on Clayton. Neither one turned into a #1 WR or turned out to be worthy of the 1st round pick, but I have no problem with Clayton other than he was overdrafted. Taylor was a guy who could not wait to fall down after the catch.

I love Clayton as a blocker and occasional playmaker. He is a good player, just should not be starting, although with him in the starting lineup with a legit Qb, the Ravens have won a lot of games.

You do point out two main differences. Pound for pound, Clayton might be the best runblocker on the team. Before the past two seasons, I had actually argued that Clayton may have been better hten Heap, but Heap since turned over a new leaf...

Clayton also, despite what many think, has a knack for the big play, abd finished in the top 5 of 40+ yard catches in 08.

But of course I agree, he was an overdrafted slot reciver, and little more.

[CRZA938]

The expectations for the 10th pick had to be a lot higher than those placed on Clayton. Neither one turned into a #1 WR or turned out to be worthy of the 1st round pick, but I have no problem with Clayton other than he was overdrafted. Taylor was a guy who could not wait to fall down after the catch.

I agree. Clayton has all of the intangibles, but his game just doesn't translate to the NFL. If he were drafted in the 6th round, I wouldn't have had a problem with that.

[camdenyard]

You do point out two main differences. Pound for pound, Clayton might be the best runblocker on the team.

Ummm...maybe, until Boldin was acquired.

[jonboy79]

Ummm...maybe, until Boldin was acquired.

Good point.. pound fo rpound it sitll might be close thogh.
Boldin weigh's 110% of Clayton, and probably surpasses him as a runblcoker by a similar margin.

Had Clayton been selevted with Demetrius Williams pick, we would probably be pleasantly surprised with his career, btu he was drafted with a similar selection to Ray Lewis, Ed Reed and Michael Oher...

[CRZA938]

But of course I agree, he was an overdrafted slot reciver, and little more.

Out of curiosity, how do you think he would fare if he replaced someone like Austin Collie in Indy's offense?

[jonboy79]

Out of curiosity, how do you think he would fare if he replaced someone like Austin Collie in Indy's offense?

Probably similar. I made mention all last season that with Gonzalez out of the picture, that Peyton was the bigger differnence between the Indy and Bal offenses, moreso then the WR corps... Collie and Garcon aren't appreciably better players then Clayton, DWIl or KWashington, they simply had Peyton throwing to them.
Wayne >Mason> The field..... that much is true also.

I think Clayton is a roughly average NFL WR, someone that could get some snaps on most teams, but probably, at this point, would start for very few, if any. As a 3rd/4th WR, he's more then adequate. He knows his role, and plays hard whistle to whistle. I wouldn't re-sign him to any significant deal however.

[CRZA938]

I think Clayton is a roughly average NFL WR, someone that could get some snaps on most teams, but probably, at this point, would start for very few, if any. As a 3rd/4th WR, he's more then adequate. He knows his role, and plays hard whistle to whistle. I wouldn't re-sign him to any significant deal however.

I think you're right on here for the most part. The thing I can't shake when we talk about him is that he was a first rounder. As TL pointed out a while back, Ozzie is hitting at about 75% when it comes to 1st round picks going to the pro bowl. I do think Clayton has all of the intangibles, but he's just average (at best).

I am not exactly sure why, but I am particularly curious to see how this draft shakes out for the Ravens. I think we're close and if this one goes well, it could be a fun season!

[jonboy79]

I think you're right on here for the most part. The thing I can't shake when we talk about him is that he was a first rounder. As TL pointed out a while back, Ozzie is hitting at about 75% when it comes to 1st round picks going to the pro bowl. I do think Clayton has all of the intangibles, but he's just average (at best).

I am not exactly sure why, but I am particularly curious to see how this draft shakes out for the Ravens. I think we're close and if this one goes well, it could be a fun season!

If all goes well between now and JUly, I see plenty of reasons to be saving up for Playoff tickets. Making arrangements "just in case" for the SuperBowl is not out of the question. This is a team that should have as good a chance as any, how it can be constructed by that point. If Oz nails the draft as always and we don't suffer any major losses prior, I see no reason we won't be one of the odds on favorites for it all.

[CRZA938]

If all goes well between now and JUly, I see plenty of reasons to be saving up for Playoff tickets. Making arrangements "just in case" for the SuperBowl is not out of the question. This is a team that should have as good a chance as any, how it can be constructed by that point. If Oz nails the draft as always and we don't suffer any major losses prior, I see no reason we won't be one of the odds on favorites for it all.

Yep, I agree. I think Oz will put the pieces in place and then it will be up to Joe to take us to the next level.

It will also be interesting to see if Clayton makes the team this year. I think that will depend on who how many wide recievers we draft.

[RavenScallywag]

I think there are two scenarios I see where Clayton doesn't make the team...

1 - Drafted WR from this year and Donte Stallworth beats him out for #3 and 4 WR spots

2 - Donte Stallworth and Demetrius Williams beats him out for #3 and 4 WR spots.

Otherwise, he stays for depth. I think chances are better than 50/50 he plays for us this year. As much as I love the idea of Boldin and Mason, there's a lot of injury concern there, so there's a good chance we'll need our #3 and/or 4 WRs to start at somepoint during the year.

[effo5231]

I'll be SHOCKED if Clayton isn't on this team next season. Sure he's an abysmal miss as a number 1, and a sub par number 2, but as a 3 he's a great option. To me Clayton is very comparable to Kyle Boller. As a starter we all knew that he was simply not good enough, but when his job was changed to back up, he suddenly becomes a pretty good option.

I think that he and Stallworth are going to spend the season splitting time pretty evenly as the Number 3 depending primarily on what we're trying to do on any given 3 wide play.

[TL24x7]

I blogged about Clayton possibly not being with the team HERE (http://ravens24x7.blogspot.com/2010/03/will-mark-clayton-be-raven-in-2010.html)

You won't get special teams play out of Boldin or Mason; probably not from Stallworth either; If Clayton is the No. 4 receiver will he provide a special teams presence? Guys on the second level of the depth chart almost have to unless they provide something special. No. 4 receiver making more than $2 million.

Something has to give...

If the Ravens choose a receiver with their first or second pick Clayton might be dealt for a fourth or fifth round pick.

[psuasskicker]

Clayton might be dealt for a fourth or fifth round pick.

God I don't even care if we draft one or not, I would love for this to happen.

- C -

[Jeremiah W]

I blogged about Clayton possibly not being with the team HERE (http://ravens24x7.blogspot.com/2010/03/will-mark-clayton-be-raven-in-2010.html)

You won't get special teams play out of Boldin or Mason; probably not from Stallworth either; If Clayton is the No. 4 receiver will he provide a special teams presence? Guys on the second level of the depth chart almost have to unless they provide something special. No. 4 receiver making more than $2 million.

Something has to give...

If the Ravens choose a receiver with their first or second pick Clayton might be dealt for a fourth or fifth round pick.

I am always nervous when I see #20 back there on punt returns. Clayton should be able to be the primary punt returner as well as exel as the 3rd or 4th WR. Wes Welker still returns punts, and it may not only keep him on the team and in the mix, but also improve his YAC.

[Stealthbirds80]

I think that the #89 jersey on this team is cursed anyway and should be banned from future use.

[jaydee414]

the best #89 in baltimore has been, and always shall be, Gino Marchetti.

[Ravannapolis]

What tastes better, rotten maggot infested fish or a shit sandwich?

It depends. What type of bread are they on?

[jonboy79]

It depends. What type of bread are they on?

Moldy Pumpernickle....

[CRZA938]

I'll be SHOCKED if Clayton isn't on this team next season. Sure he's an abysmal miss as a number 1, and a sub par number 2, but as a 3 he's a great option. To me Clayton is very comparable to Kyle Boller. As a starter we all knew that he was simply not good enough, but when his job was changed to back up, he suddenly becomes a pretty good option.

I think that he and Stallworth are going to spend the season splitting time pretty evenly as the Number 3 depending primarily on what we're trying to do on any given 3 wide play.

I think you make some good points, but I would not be shocked if he's gone. If they use a high draft pick on a wide out and resign Kelley Washington, he could be the odd man out. I guess it all depends on whether you are correct that he is good enough to split time with Stallworth (it's possible). If not, he'd be a really expensive backup.

[jonboy79]

I think you make some good points, but I would not be shocked if he's gone. If they use a high draft pick on a wide out and resign Kelley Washington, he could be the odd man out. I guess it all depends on whether you are correct that he is good enough to split time with Stallworth (it's possible). If not, he'd be a really expensive backup.

I think the Kelley Washington ship has sailed...

But yes, High draft pick, IMO means that Clayton and Stallworth are fighting for a roster spot.

[HoustonRaven]

I think the Kelley Washington ship has sailed...

But yes, High draft pick, IMO means that Clayton is fighting for a roster spot.

Fixed it.

IMO, it's Donte's spot to lose, given the level of disappointment Clayton has given this franchise.

[Mista T]

If they use a high draft pick on a wide out and resign Kelley Washington, he could be the odd man out.

With all the other competing needs, I can't see wasting a high draft pick on yet another WR. Anyway, with Riley, Harper, and Smith, we already have a few young bucks with potential.

[StingerNLG]

If the Ravens choose a receiver with their first or second pick Clayton might be dealt for a fourth or fifth round pick.

Which at this point I am not sure I see them doing. I think Ozzie sees Bolden as their alternative to that. And so far it looks like they are keeping Demetrius Williams, and still have guys like Justin Harper and Eron Riley on the practice squad that may get another look this year. Add to that having Mason back, and Stallworth added, and I just don't see them drafting anyone.

And we know that this Ozzie does NOT like releasing his 1st round picks, no matter if they live up to expectations or not. So politics tells me Clayton will be on the team this year, even if it's as the #4.

[trailhiker85]

Depending on how we draft, I think there's a decent chance Clayton stays.

Seems to me there are too many needs on defense to take a receiver with the No. 1 or No. 2 pick. Could be wrong, of course, depending on the BPA strategy and how it meshes with who is left at 25. But with a couple of decent PS receivers already around, drafting a WR high wouldn't seem to make much sense.

No doubt that Clayton has been a disappointment as a first round pick. But I'd like to see him stick around as a No. 4, at least. Admittedly he's a bit pricey to have in that role, but could probably be productive there. And as others have pointed out, he's a good blocker. Also, Boldin's injury history and Stallworth's year off gives one just a bit of pause in terms of their 2010 effectiveness. To some extent, keeping Clayton around could be seen as having veteran insurance.

In any case, looks like he will definitely have to compete for a spot. I haven't heard anything new on the status of either Washington or Williams, and those guys factor in. I get the impression the coaches weren't happy with Williams last year.

[jonboy79]

Depending on how we draft, I think there's a decent chance Clayton stays.

Seems to me there are too many needs on defense to take a receiver with the No. 1 or No. 2 pick. Could be wrong, of course, depending on the BPA strategy and how it meshes with who is left at 25. But with a couple of decent PS receivers already around, drafting a WR high wouldn't seem to make much sense.

No doubt that Clayton has been a disappointment as a first round pick. But I'd like to see him stick around as a No. 4, at least. Admittedly he's a bit pricey to have in that role, but could probably be productive there. And as others have pointed out, he's a good blocker. Also, Boldin's injury history and Stallworth's year off gives one just a bit of pause in terms of their 2010 effectiveness. To some extent, keeping Clayton around could be seen as having veteran insurance.

In any case, looks like he will definitely have to compete for a spot. I haven't heard anything new on the status of either Washington or Williams, and those guys factor in. I get the impression the coaches weren't happy with Williams last year.

I agree, WR is WAYYYYYY down on the list of needs, and will be passed on unless value is SCREAMING.... CB and Passrusher BOTH need to be addressed early. IF Giather is traded there is a third position that needs to be addressed LONG before our picks in the 5th round.

Wr just gets pushed out of the way, and having a player like Clayton as your deep depth is part of that.

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

Mark Clayton can make plays! Remember this? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAtqf5OGO4o&feature=related

He also made a few nice plays against K.C. last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B271ohpZknw

[Greg]

Fixed it.

IMO, it's Donte's spot to lose, given the level of disappointment Clayton has given this franchise.

Why? If they think Clayton will offer more to the team they keep him over Stallworth if they are fighting for the last spot. Other lesser factors might include ST participation and what either might bring in a trade. I don't see previous disappointment having a role. If keeping Clayton over Stallworth is best for the team (in the eyes of the coaches and FO) then they keep, if not they keep Stallworth.

[HoustonRaven]

Why? If they think Clayton will offer more to the team they keep him over Stallworth if they are fighting for the last spot. Other lesser factors might include ST participation and what either might bring in a trade. I don't see previous disappointment having a role. If keeping Clayton over Stallworth is best for the team (in the eyes of the coaches and FO) then they keep, if not they keep Stallworth.

IMO, when the team grabbed two WR's, that was the sign of them saying enough was enough.

Lets assume the team only picks up Donte and fails in their bid for Q. Clayton is safe simply by the numbers of it. Just as the numbers favor him in that scenario, the numbers doom him once Q gets signed.

Ozzie has had years to think about this decision and you may very well be proved right, considering his special teams contributions. I just cannot see his special teams contribution being the lynch pin that keeps him on a team where he has consistently failed to live up to expectations.