More from the Ravens War Room (thru Round 5)

[TL24x7]

The Ravens were well aware of the reported knee issues with Sergio Kindle yet their doctors were comfortable with his physical condition. Given his availability with the 43rd pick in the draft the consensus was that the former Longhorn is well worth what was deemed to be marginal risk. Kindle’s intensity could provide some special teams value as well…Terrence Cody is a player that some believed the Ravens would select at No. 25 depending upon how the board unfolded in the first round had they kept the pick and were unable to move out. While there are some mild concerns about weight, the team believes that Cody is moving in the right direction in that regard and has shown improved levels of maturity.

Ed Dickson's selection in the third has been lauded by most draft analysts and clearly it fills a need. It was however surprising to see the Ravens follow that pick with another tight end, Dennis Pitta. The BYU Cougar is somewhat reminiscent of Dallas Cowboys TE Jason Witten. The Ravens love his football instincts...MORE HERE (http://ravens24x7.blogspot.com/2010/04/more-from-war-room.html)

[ed from Bel Air]

From the sporting news War room draft analysis:

War Room analysis
Cody is a far less impressive player on film than the media will lead you to believe. He is strictly a two-down run stopper and must improve his fitness significantly in order to see more than 10-15 snaps per game.

PRE-DRAFT ANALYSIS

Strengths: Is massive, with the size and strength to anchor at the point of attack against all types of run blocks. Flashes the ability to shed and toss blockers and make tackles on runs at him. Is instinctive; reads the play fast.

Weaknesses: Is overweight and out of shape. Is not nearly as productive as the hype he receives would indicate. Lacks quickness, explosiveness and burst off the ball, making him a virtual non-factor as a pass rusher. Cannot shoot gaps to blow up running plays in the backfield. Lacks the athleticism to make plays outside the OG box. Does not use his hands consistently well to take on blockers; cannot shed and get free in time to impact the play when he doesn't use hands well. Does not protect his legs well from cut blocks and gets stopped in his tracks by them.

Bottom line: Cody is one of the most disappointing players we have evaluated in recent seasons when compared to the hype he has received. He is way overweight and in bad shape, which limits his ability to move quickly and make plays outside of a very small area. Cody's draft status will probably go way down in the spring, when NFL evaluators' opinions of players start to dribble out to the media. Cody has the talent to be a much better player than he has shown on film, but to become that player he will need to lose at least 40 pounds and play with more passion and intensity on every snap. Do not be shocked if Cody ends up getting drafted in the seventh round by a team that plays a 3-4 scheme. He is not going to be drafted high because history says players who struggle with their weight in college usually have weight issues in the NFL, too.

Obviously I hate this pick. we should have talken Kyle Wilson.

[RavenScallywag]

I don't hate the pick, but I can agree that's probably our biggest gamble.

Ozzie might not have even needed a scout for this one, how much he follows Alabama football. But I'm sure Cody WAS scouted, and his health was signed off on by Bill Tessendorf.

I think it's definite that Cody is more suited as a 2 down player, but all the pre-draft analysis on him was he's suprisingly numble and quick for a guy of his size. Someone posted about how Siragusa only had 22 sacks in over 100 career games. Kelly Gregg only has 13.5 sacks in 89 career games. Cody isn't a guy we want to rush the passer. He's going to be a 3-4 NT to just occupy space and make it difficult to run up the middle. His weight has been pretty consistently dropping since the Senior Bowl, and I can imagine the Ravens are going to have a dietician on him right away. Even then, I'd say his playing weight should be in the 320-335 range. Also consider that he's 6'4" while Gregg is 6' even. The extra 4 inches will account for some added weight over Kelly, who is 315.

The Kindle and Cody picks are pretty obviously geared towards keeping us in a 3-4. WHile I agree that Cody could have some issues, I think it's a bit ridiculous to think he might've gone to the 7th round. He probably wouldn't have lasted past the middle 3rd at worst.

[Lee Van Cleef]

He needs to get his weight down. We'll see if he can do it.

[TL24x7]

Obviously I hate this pick. we should have talken Kyle Wilson.

So I'm assuming this means that you'd prefer Wilson over Kindle, Dickson and Pitta? Because the only way the Ravens get Wilson is with their original first round pick.

I will tell you this, the Ravens didn't rank Wilson as highly as the media mocks. They don't think he's the player that Webb is and they got Webb in the third.

How many people liked the Webb pick last year, honestly?

How many thought David Pittman Part II?

I would value the Ravens own scouting reports on players, particularly an Alabama player, far more than even the thoughtful reports produced by Sporting News.

But maybe that's just me....

[RavenScallywag]

If we don't trade the pick, here's our draft...

1: Kyle Wilson
2: Terrence Cody (I doubt Kindle falls to us)
5: David Reed
5b: Art Jones
6: Ramon Harewood

Maybe we change out one or two picks to grab a TE instead, but let's just say this is it...

So, you lose out on two VERY good TEs for our offense, our pass rush isn't really improved (Jones should help, but as a 5th rounder, he's not going to have much impact). Meanwhile, Wilson helps out this year but next year, our pass rush still sucks and now we have Foxworth, Webb, and Wilson battling for starting spots.

While I do think you can never have too many good CBs, the value we got out of Kindle, Dickson, and Pitta is worth more to me than Wilson.

[Mike B]

If we don't trade the pick, here's our draft...

1: Kyle Wilson
2: Terrence Cody (I doubt Kindle falls to us)
5: David Reed
5b: Art Jones
6: Ramon Harewood

Maybe we change out one or two picks to grab a TE instead, but let's just say this is it...

So, you lose out on two VERY good TEs for our offense, our pass rush isn't really improved (Jones should help, but as a 5th rounder, he's not going to have much impact). Meanwhile, Wilson helps out this year but next year, our pass rush still sucks and now we have Foxworth, Webb, and Wilson battling for starting spots.

While I do think you can never have too many good CBs, the value we got out of Kindle, Dickson, and Pitta is worth more to me than Wilson.

I have heard that Kyle Wilson failed his physical and was taken off the Ravens draft board.
I have a hunch had we stayed at 25 I think the pick would have been Jerry Hughes or Cook whick would have been reaches. Ozzie does not reach.

[TL24x7]

I have heard that Kyle Wilson failed his physical and was taken off the Ravens draft board.
I have a hunch had we stayed at 25 I think the pick would have been Jerry Hughes or Cook whick would have been reaches. Ozzie does not reach.

Haven't heard that about Wilson's physical but I did hear that had they kept the pick it would have been DT Dan Williams..

[Jeremiah W]

I think Williams would have been the pick at 25, but in this deep a draft it was the right gamble. Williams has both the anchor size and rush ability, but in Cody and Jones the Ravens may have a better run stopper and better pass rusher just had to use 2 roster spots.

Jerry Hughes may have less injury risk but is about the same kind of player as Kindle and to get back into the 3rd and 4th and pick up 2nd round type talented TEs was value and need coming together very smooth. Edgar Jones and Devon Drew were not really much of a depth chart at TE, and it was a long time need since Wilcox became injury prone.

We may now have the best TE group in the NFL, and TE is a lot like RB in that it is a very important spot to have good backups because it is a featured spot in the O, even more than WR, but the injury factor makes it harder to keep good depth.

I think the draft also shows the Ravens are optimistic about the condition of Webb and Washington. We are 4 deep at CB already if those guys are going to be healthy, and we can always add a 5th or 6th CB off the wire. Having a deep rotation up front that can force long yardage passing downs and then get after the QB should keep our CB depth from getting exposed. It has been the front 4 that has lacked inthe sack stats more than the back 4 giving up a ton of passing yards or TDs. I think our front 4 will be a lot more versatile and deep this year. Bannan and Edwards were not pass rushers, Redding, Kindle and Joens are.

[ed from Bel Air]

So I'm assuming this means that you'd prefer Wilson over Kindle, Dickson and Pitta? Because the only way the Ravens get Wilson is with their original first round pick.

I will tell you this, the Ravens didn't rank Wilson as highly as the media mocks. They don't think he's the player that Webb is and they got Webb in the third.

How many people liked the Webb pick last year, honestly?

How many thought David Pittman Part II?

I would value the Ravens own scouting reports on players, particularly an Alabama player, far more than even the thoughtful reports produced by Sporting News.

But maybe that's just me....

Absolutely I would give up the two TEs. Whether Kindle would have been there later remains to be seen.

Tony I love Ozzie. He is the best GM in the NFL, but I disgree with him on this. I would have kept the pick and taken Wilson or the CB from FSU. I know it flies in the face of Best Player Available, but our lack of a solid corner has cost us the last two years. Foxworth and Carr were awful in the beginning; Foxworth did improve later in the year, but I would not call him a great corner. Carr became average at best. Frank walker is physical and occasionally makes a play against the bigger receivers, but eventually he must hold on for dear life, leading to the inevitable penalties.

I would rather get a couple of solid players then extra draft picks. I think Cody is a huge risk. He will help against the run, but will be out of the game in passing situations. He seems to be very one dimensional.

As for Webb I absolutely loved him last year. I predict he will make dreads a fashion statement at the vault this year. I never made the Pittman comparison. You take people one at a time. The fact Webb went to a DII school, like Pittman, is irrelevant. Players stand on their own abilities.

But I do believe we need more depth here. Hopefully the kid we got from the Tennessee PS will pan out.

I do agree with one thing you said. Ozzie does know more then the sporting news (and me). Here's to hoping he is right and I am wrong.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I have heard that Kyle Wilson failed his physical and was taken off the Ravens draft board.
I have a hunch had we stayed at 25 I think the pick would have been Jerry Hughes or Cook whick would have been reaches. Ozzie does not reach.

You're on to something. Same with another player many wanted in the second round.

[Rxdoxx]

I have heard that Kyle Wilson failed his physical and was taken off the Ravens draft board.
I have a hunch had we stayed at 25 I think the pick would have been Jerry Hughes or Cook whick would have been reaches. Ozzie does not reach.

Don't know anything there
But remember that Kyle Wilson was dealing with a hamstring at the combine wasn't he? No running or jumping.
Hamstrings scare me especially for the sprinters (WR, CB). They seem to take a long while to heal, easily re-aggravated if too soon, and tend to be recurring across the years. It is not like a pulled shoulder where you can strap on a harness if you have to play. I can see him off the Ravens board for that reason alone. Whether they can test a hamstring to fail a physical I have no idea, history alone would be enough for me.
I didn't want to see us getting Javier Arenas for the same reason.


Hughes wouldn't have been that big of a reach if at all, Polihan took him for the Irsays at 31, Saints could have at 32, and rumblings here had us trying to trade back up.

[jonboy79]

Absolutely I would give up the two TEs. Whether Kindle would have been there later remains to be seen.

Tony I love Ozzie. He is the best GM in the NFL, but I disgree with him on this. I would have kept the pick and taken Wilson or the CB from FSU. I know it flies in the face of Best Player Available, but our lack of a solid corner has cost us the last two years. Foxworth and Carr were awful in the beginning; Foxworth did improve later in the year, but I would not call him a great corner. Carr became average at best. Frank walker is physical and occasionally makes a play against the bigger receivers, but eventually he must hold on for dear life, leading to the inevitable penalties.

I would rather get a couple of solid players then extra draft picks. I think Cody is a huge risk. He will help against the run, but will be out of the game in passing situations. He seems to be very one dimensional.

As for Webb I absolutely loved him last year. I predict he will make dreads a fashion statement at the vault this year. I never made the Pittman comparison. You take people one at a time. The fact Webb went to a DII school, like Pittman, is irrelevant. Players stand on their own abilities.

But I do believe we need more depth here. Hopefully the kid we got from the Tennessee PS will pan out.

I do agree with one thing you said. Ozzie does know more then the sporting news (and me). Here's to hoping he is right and I am wrong.

Dead on.
After a day or two of taking it in, I still don't think this was a good draft. I think the inability to secure a corner and Blocking TE are problems that will now haunt us for the third consecutive year.
The Boom or Bust products from the first two days will make or break this draft.

[RavensNTerps]

not that it matters but i think we take either Williams or Cody at 25 if we stay put...

[baltimore_hokie]

Dead on.
After a day or two of taking it in, I still don't think this was a good draft. I think the inability to secure a corner and Blocking TE are problems that will now haunt us for the third consecutive year.
The Boom or Bust products from the first two days will make or break this draft.

No offense, but just about every NFL expert out there is practically fellating Ozzie for our draft. We got all of these guys after coming into the draft without 3rd and 4th round picks.

Pur secondary was second best in the NFL after the bye week, even with all of the injuries we had. Second best!! Improved play from Suggs (he couldn't possibly be any worse than he was last year) and a reloaded front seven will only make the secondary look better.

I don't get how you refuse to see that there was no value in the CB's that were available. Ozzie couldn't turn down the raping he gave the Broncos for that pick. I understand your Armchair GM-edness, but it would be silly for you to believe that you know better than DeCosta and Ozzie. Watching some Youtube videos and reading some reviews online doesn't put you in the position to question one of the best in the business.

Would Ozzie have been "better" or "smarter" if he had reached on Donovan Warren in the 6th round?? Would it have been better to have drafted Chris Cook and given up two picks to do it? Would you still be bitching if he had only taken one TE? Probably.

[NC Raven]

Dead on.
After a day or two of taking it in, I still don't think this was a good draft. I think the inability to secure a corner and Blocking TE are problems that will now haunt us for the third consecutive year.
The Boom or Bust products from the first two days will make or break this draft.

How many friggin corners do you want us to have under contract? We have a ton of them already, and they played well last year considering the lack of a pass rush.

Defense is more about communication and teamwork than it is about having an all first-round Pro-Bowl cornerback on each side of the field and at nickel, which is about all that would seem to placate some of the "we need a corner, we need a corner!" folks around here. (and if we did that, they'd be bitching about whatever part of the team we have to cut back on to be able to afford all of that, and they'd fail to see the connection between the two events).

Did you not see how the defense worked together over the second half, as the players learned to communicate and play off of one another? Do you not get that no matter who we bring in, the defense has to undergo that whole process all over again?

So if we had drafted Kyle Wilson, where exactly do we put everybody once all the CBs are healthy again? We'd have a first round player fighting to play the nickel position, that's what. You want to burn a first rounder on a guy who's job is to fill in at CB (as a rookie, mind you) for a few weeks while the starters heal, then go be nickel? If the dictionary needs a new example for the definition of the word "myopic" I think we've found it.

[Jeremiah W]

No offense, but just about every NFL expert out there is practically fellating Ozzie for our draft. We got all of these guys after coming into the draft without 3rd and 4th round picks.

Pur secondary was second best in the NFL after the bye week, even with all of the injuries we had. Second best!! Improved play from Suggs (he couldn't possibly be any worse than he was last year) and a reloaded front seven will only make the secondary look better.

I don't get how you refuse to see that there was no value in the CB's that were available. Ozzie couldn't turn down the raping he gave the Broncos for that pick. I understand your Armchair GM-edness, but it would be silly for you to believe that you know better than DeCosta and Ozzie. Watching some Youtube videos and reading some reviews online doesn't put you in the position to question one of the best in the business.

Would Ozzie have been "better" or "smarter" if he had reached on Donovan Warren in the 6th round?? Would it have been better to have drafted Chris Cook and given up two picks to do it? Would you still be bitching if he had only taken one TE? Probably.

Yeah, we can not get it twisted to think we know more than they do about what the ravens need. We just do not have nearly enough info even if we have the super scouting eye for talent.

I was not very impressed with the CB class at all. I thought we could get a starter with a 1st round pick, but after that we may as well bring back Frank Walker or a guy like that to be the 5th Cb if the slappies do not develop.

We are 4 deep at CB with decent to good players, had a high ranked pass D, but a low ranked pass rush, no depth at TE and room for a prospect on OL. I was concerned that we would not be able to keep many draft picks in the first place, but by moving around the Ravens were able to match up need and value all over the place.

[NC Raven]

I was not very impressed with the CB class at all. I thought we could get a starter with a 1st round pick, but after that we may as well bring back Frank Walker or a guy like that to be the 5th Cb if the slappies do not develop.

.

I wasn't either, and I'm glad Oz didn't make a "panic buy" and just take somebody for the sake of taking somebody.

In fact, I wasn't really blown away by the draft class in general, and the teams at the top of the draft are mostly going to be overpaying those top 10 top 15 guys that were drafted.

This was simply not a draft worth moving up in, but it had enough B+ kind of depth that it was worth getting extra picks in, which is what the smart teams did.

[baltimore_hokie]

I wasn't either, and I'm glad Oz didn't make a "panic buy" and just take somebody for the sake of taking somebody.

In fact, I wasn't really blown away by the draft class in general, and the teams at the top of the draft are mostly going to be overpaying those top 10 top 15 guys that were drafted.

This was simply not a draft worth moving up in, but it had enough B+ kind of depth that it was worth getting extra picks in, which is what the smart teams did.

Fill your needs in free agency, get the best players in the draft. Fans will bitch, but that's why they're fans.

[RavenScallywag]

I'm staking my reputation that Cary Williams will be good enough to provide the depth we would've gotten from a 4th or 5th round corner this year. Coaches are VERY high on him.

I think my only concern would be Webb and Washington going on PUP and our depth chart Week 1 being Foxworth, Carr, Cary Williams, and Marcus Paschal. But I don't think ozzie would let that happen. If it was worse case scenario, we might even bring CMac in for a few weeks. But I think odds are almost 100% that Webb and Washington would be ready by Week 6, if not sooner.

[Jeremiah W]

I'm staking my reputation that Cary Williams will be good enough to provide the depth we would've gotten from a 4th or 5th round corner this year. Coaches are VERY high on him.

I think my only concern would be Webb and Washington going on PUP and our depth chart Week 1 being Foxworth, Carr, Cary Williams, and Marcus Paschal. But I don't think ozzie would let that happen. If it was worse case scenario, we might even bring CMac in for a few weeks. But I think odds are almost 100% that Webb and Washington would be ready by Week 6, if not sooner.

I do not think guys like that would have been on the roster last year if they were not hot prospects.

Talavou, McKinney, Burgess and Barnes showed why they were still here when they got a chance to play, maybe Williams and Pascal prove they are better than most if not all of the late round CBs this year.

I also still have hope for Harper and Riley to emerge this year. Heck maybe one of them can play Cb. They are incredibly athletic and fast, and that may be the only way to make the team.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I get the CB concerns...and though I know Tony and the infamous radio station in town don't necessarily get along, if you listen to Drew's interview with Decosta, you will hear 2 things...

A.)While talking about passing and flunking physicals, Drew brings up an example of how certain teams can flunk a guy and another will pass the same guy...and he brought up a certain AFC East team "passing" a guy while we didn't. There was a reason for that.

B.)Basically, the team didn't feel that any CB's after Arenas was taken in the second was worth it...they didn't feel they would contribute much if at all this year. Like I said before...this was a weak CB class.

As for TE, I don't get the concerns. Since when was a blocking TE so important here? You can find those in the streets any time you want. We have gotten by with Sharpe and Heap fine. And I can't think of any TE's out there worth a significant pick that were graded out as good blockers. Would we be worried about blocking if we took Gresham? He is worse than Dickson.

The one pick that does not sit well with me is the David Reed pick...I don't think i will ever totally come around on that pick with Carlton Mitchell sitting there. Reed may be a good player, but how different is he really from Clayton or DWill?

Also, FYI, Word is out of Owings Mills that Fabien should be ready around the beginning/middle of training camp...he is progressing really well. Webb is still a ways from running so while I think Webb will be on the PUP, I don't think we really ahve all that much to worring about with Washington being ready for week 1. His deal will be more mentally recovering at that point IMHO.

[Carey]

No offense, but just about every NFL expert out there is practically fellating Ozzie for our draft. We got all of these guys after coming into the draft without 3rd and 4th round picks.

Pur secondary was second best in the NFL after the bye week, even with all of the injuries we had. Second best!! Improved play from Suggs (he couldn't possibly be any worse than he was last year) and a reloaded front seven will only make the secondary look better.

I don't get how you refuse to see that there was no value in the CB's that were available. Ozzie couldn't turn down the raping he gave the Broncos for that pick. I understand your Armchair GM-edness, but it would be silly for you to believe that you know better than DeCosta and Ozzie. Watching some Youtube videos and reading some reviews online doesn't put you in the position to question one of the best in the business.

Would Ozzie have been "better" or "smarter" if he had reached on Donovan Warren in the 6th round?? Would it have been better to have drafted Chris Cook and given up two picks to do it? Would you still be bitching if he had only taken one TE? Probably.

Couldnt agree more, im proud and feel fortunate to be a fan of a franchise that wont reach for need. We still have 2 months to training camp, Oz will be looking long and hard at corners. Having Cody less snaps Gregg and Pryce have to take, not to mention the 2 blockers he eats up, Kindle as a pass rush specialist, a bulked up Kruger with a hand in the dirt, the Redding signing, all this means improved pass rush which will help our secondary. Im sure Mattison would really not like to blitz as much as Rex, now with all these options he doesnt which takes pressure off the secondary

[jonboy79]

I get the CB concerns...and though I know Tony and the infamous radio station in town don't necessarily get along, if you listen to Drew's interview with Decosta, you will hear 2 things...

A.)While talking about passing and flunking physicals, Drew brings up an example of how certain teams can flunk a guy and another will pass the same guy...and he brought up a certain AFC East team "passing" a guy while we didn't. There was a reason for that.

B.)Basically, the team didn't feel that any CB's after Arenas was taken in the second was worth it...they didn't feel they would contribute much if at all this year. Like I said before...this was a weak CB class.

As for TE, I don't get the concerns. Since when was a blocking TE so important here? You can find those in the streets any time you want. We have gotten by with Sharpe and Heap fine. And I can't think of any TE's out there worth a significant pick that were graded out as good blockers. Would we be worried about blocking if we took Gresham? He is worse than Dickson.

The one pick that does not sit well with me is the David Reed pick...I don't think i will ever totally come around on that pick with Carlton Mitchell sitting there. Reed may be a good player, but how different is he really from Clayton or DWill?

Also, FYI, Word is out of Owings Mills that Fabien should be ready around the beginning/middle of training camp...he is progressing really well. Webb is still a ways from running so while I think Webb will be on the PUP, I don't think we really ahve all that much to worring about with Washington being ready for week 1. His deal will be more mentally recovering at that point IMHO.

CB play was th biggest issue with the defense last year. Starting caliber corners are found early in ther draft. We "lucked" into a guy that "seems" to fit the bill int he third round last year, but he got hurt. We have had sever depth issues for several years now. This is a pass happy league. If we don't overhaul the unit soon, wer will continue to have these issues for years.
Having swiss cheese for a secondary makes Cody seem worhtwhile. Why would teams even attempt to run against this defense. Teams rarely did before.

A. If Wilson is not the guy, then who was the guy? It is apparent that GM's around the league all value CB more then Oz. This reminds me of the days he ignored the OL. We needed to trade up for Cook or Robinson if Wilson weasn't the guy.
B. After Pitta it didn't matter anymore, none of those guys can help much initially, or typically even ever.
C. TE... I couldn't have a much more different opinion on this in general then you. This was one of the best blcoking biased ALL AROUND TE class oin a decade of me following closely. There was plenty of value in the 4th and 5th rounds as predicted for these types of players. I would like the pick of Doickson or Pitta much mroe if they were teamed up with Hoo, Peek, McCoy, etc... instead of another afraid of contact TE.
Gresham is LEAGUES better as a blocker then either fo these guys has shown. When asked he has shown good effort and moderate technique and leverage. These guys have only shown more hten Aaron Hernandez...

Oh and since when has it been important? Since when HASN'T it been? I know since I constantly see our Franchise DT and Borderline starting OL filling in that Cam certainly does.... Imagine if we didn't have to play 6 OL all the time to get short yardage. What if we had some versatility.

Versatility is my word of the day on this. We didn't draft much. All these guys do one thing well. the thing is, I don't think that thing is typically all we need.

David Reed and Art Jones were my favorite picks...

If Washington isn't nearly 100% by week one, we're in trouble.


And sine when can't I have a contrarian Opinion? I don't Like this draft, you all are welcome to.

[Jeremiah W]

CB play was th biggest issue with the defense last year. Starting caliber corners are found early in ther draft. We "lucked" into a guy that "seems" to fit the bill int he third round last year, but he got hurt. We have had sever depth issues for several years now. This is a pass happy league. If we don't overhaul the unit soon, wer will continue to have these issues for years.
Having swiss cheese for a secondary makes Cody seem worhtwhile. Why would teams even attempt to run against this defense. Teams rarely did before.

A. If Wilson is not the guy, then who was the guy? It is apparent that GM's around the league all value CB more then Oz. This reminds me of the days he ignored the OL. We needed to trade up for Cook or Robinson if Wilson weasn't the guy.
B. After Pitta it didn't matter anymore, none of those guys can help much initially, or typically even ever.
C. TE... I couldn't have a much more different opinion on this in general then you. This was one of the best blcoking biased ALL AROUND TE class oin a decade of me following closely. There was plenty of value in the 4th and 5th rounds as predicted for these types of players. I would like the pick of Doickson or Pitta much mroe if they were teamed up with Hoo, Peek, McCoy, etc... instead of another afraid of contact TE.
Gresham is LEAGUES better as a blocker then either fo these guys has shown. When asked he has shown good effort and moderate technique and leverage. These guys have only shown more hten Aaron Hernandez...

Oh and since when has it been important? Since when HASN'T it been? I know since I constantly see our Franchise DT and Borderline starting OL filling in that Cam certainly does.... Imagine if we didn't have to play 6 OL all the time to get short yardage. What if we had some versatility.

Versatility is my word of the day on this. We didn't draft much. All these guys do one thing well. the thing is, I don't think that thing is typically all we need.

David Reed and Art Jones were my favorite picks...

If Washington isn't nearly 100% by week one, we're in trouble.


And sine when can't I have a contrarian Opinion? I don't Like this draft, you all are welcome to.

You make some good arguments here, and I also love the Jones pick, and love the Reed pick after I heard his coach on with Haynie and Suchy talking about how he broke Steve Smith's records and is the best deep ball catcher he ever saw.

The blocking TE thing sounds like a very solid point, but I think that has changed with the rules that make it more of a passing NFL. Also it is hard to say the 6 OL thing was not very succesfull. Teams may know we are running but still could not stop it, and there was some effective play action stuff that looked like designed plays to the FB in the flat and deep routes off that. The redzone % has been off the charts compared to the Billick era, we were #1 in rushing TDs last year. It was the passing game that needed more versatility and depth, and that is what we got.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

My point on TE's is that with the M.A.S.H. unit we have had at TE...with no real blockers over the past 2 years...we have not had any problems running the ball. And to say they are afraid of contact is kind of blowing this out of proportion. They did what they were asked...play in a spread offense. And from what I have read/seen, Dickson gives good effort but is not much...and the same with Gresham. I guess I see what you are saying, but IMHO, I'd rather have as many guys who can help in our faulty area on offense instead of worrying about a blocker when we have done very well without one.

As for CB, I'm not really disagreeing with you...but I also definately agreed with Decosta that this CB class sucked. There were no shut down CB's in this draft including Haden, and honestly, if Washington/Webb are able to come back, I don't think any of them start...at least not this year. I agree about depth, although really, if/when Washington/Webb come back, I think a depth chart of Foxworth/Washington/Webb/Carr/Vet is not that bad. I just don't know what it is, but it just seems like every year, we have 2-3 guys get freak injury's. We can't carry more than 5 so no matter who we would have gotten, if we had the injuries that we did the last 2 years, we'd still be looking to grab a scrap heap guy in December. I'm not disagreeing here...but I am not ready to bash the team for taking a CB in this weak of a class.

[Rxdoxx]

You make some good arguments here, and I also love the Jones pick, and love the Reed pick after I heard his coach on with Haynie and Suchy talking about how he broke Steve Smith's records and is the best deep ball catcher he ever saw.


I heard it also.

Just to clarify, I didn't hear the coach saying anything to the effect that he was a deep ball threat, only that he was a deep ball catcher. Got the impression he was Fitzgerald like in ability to adjust and come up with the catch but not speed. Kyle Whittingham did say that he plays faster on the field than he shows by his times.
What I loved is hearing great hands, precise routes, and no fear going over the middle. I am now calmly sitting back and itching to watch.

Just to clarify more :) that Steve Smith he is talking about is the Panther's not the Giant's Steve Smith. And he also brought up Kevin Dyson (of the final catch in the SB loss, tackled just short of the goal), so his WR experience isn't swiss cheese.

Maybe we have hit one, without trying a high pick, or a 7th round flyer.

[jonboy79]

My point on TE's is that with the M.A.S.H. unit we have had at TE...with no real blockers over the past 2 years...we have not had any problems running the ball. And to say they are afraid of contact is kind of blowing this out of proportion. They did what they were asked...play in a spread offense. And from what I have read/seen, Dickson gives good effort but is not much...and the same with Gresham. I guess I see what you are saying, but IMHO, I'd rather have as many guys who can help in our faulty area on offense instead of worrying about a blocker when we have done very well without one.

As for CB, I'm not really disagreeing with you...but I also definately agreed with Decosta that this CB class sucked. There were no shut down CB's in this draft including Haden, and honestly, if Washington/Webb are able to come back, I don't think any of them start...at least not this year. I agree about depth, although really, if/when Washington/Webb come back, I think a depth chart of Foxworth/Washington/Webb/Carr/Vet is not that bad. I just don't know what it is, but it just seems like every year, we have 2-3 guys get freak injury's. We can't carry more than 5 so no matter who we would have gotten, if we had the injuries that we did the last 2 years, we'd still be looking to grab a scrap heap guy in December. I'm not disagreeing here...but I am not ready to bash the team for taking a CB in this weak of a class.

Sorry, Neither really offerred ANYTHING as a blocker on the college football field. Neither was really ever in tight like and NFL TE.
We have done well without a Blocking TE by running unbalanced,6 OL, pro-bowl DT TE's... These aren't the way to really accomplish the task. Peopel talk abotu Using Cody in this role, do you really want to take away from his 20 snaps a game and use it on offense? Why not get a player that can do their entire job? Rather then two that can do the same one thing well? Maqybe ONE complete TE, and one modified WR?

Washington will be a Free agent and will not be worth signing after this year. Counting on Him/Webb to combine for more then 16 games seems a bit far fetched to me. It is possible, but going into the season NEEDING that seems off to me. Unless we get a YOUNG, vet cb on a long cheap comtract, then I will feel like we need a 1st or 2nd round corner next year, EVEN IF eveyrone comes back healthy and better.

This draft to me, showed the difference of opinion of the value of the CB position as a position.... Our FO/caoching staff's, vs Rex Ryan. I think his way is better. I think this FO/Coaching staff places too low a priority on the position, as it previously had the OL.

Thank GOD, I don't have to be complaining about Brandon Marshall being here or Gaither Not being here... I jsut am not feeling this draft. I think long term many of you will eventually agree.

Oh and BTW, I never considered Kindle or Cody first rounders, so that probably has much to do with this negative vibe. I think we got value from the picks, but they weren'tthe steals many teams made. I look around hte league, and MANY teams I feel did better with their picks then the Ravens and I NEVER say that...

[effo5231]

These aren't the way to really accomplish the task. Peopel talk abotu Using Cody in this role, do you really want to take away from his 20 snaps a game and use it on offense?

You keep making this claim that Cody is only good for 20 snaps a game but can you back it up with anything?

Here's one scouting page's take:


Most Alabama fans were just hoping we could get 15-20 snaps per game out of him (mostly in short-yardage situations), but he greatly exceeded those expectations. Though UA does not release individual snap participation numbers, I would wager to say that in 2008 he averaged somewhere in the neighborhood of 40-45 snaps per game. Prior to his knee injury against Ole Miss, he literally destroyed every single center that he faced. The MCL sprain really limited him down the stretch, but even at his worst he was a serviceable nose guard.

And our own Filmstudy has him down for 25-30 snaps per game (which is the same number Gregg played btw).

[jonboy79]

You keep making this claim that Cody is only good for 20 snaps a game but can you back it up with anything?

Here's one scouting page's take:



And our own Filmstudy has him down for 25-30 snaps per game (which is the same number Gregg played btw).

It's a prediction, there are no stats.