Paul Kruger

[CR_Dingley]

I want to just see where people on the boards stand as far as kruger goes. I see big things out of this guy in the future, they told him to bulk up and he did so will we be seeing him as a DE this year or what?

[RavenScallywag]

Mixed bag...half of us like his developmental prospects this year as a bulked up DE. Half of us are ready to write him off as one of Ozzie's worst picks.

Consensus is we need to see what he can do this year. If he does nothing, it was a risky pick that didn't pan out. If he shows something, he could turn into a VERY solid pickup, and our pass rush could vault to completely unthought of levels with Suggs, Kindle, and Kruger each being pass rushing specialists.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Paul Kruger is not and has never been a pass rush specialist.

At his best, he will be a Rob Burnett/Anthony Weaver type guy.

Not saying he won't be a good player, but people's thoughts of him being a pass rushing OLB just weren't correct.

[psuasskicker]

Given how completely unproductive he was this past year, I basically count on him being a backup at best and anything more we get from him is just gravy. I'd like to see him succeed, but I don't expect it.

- C -

[Neelson88]

i thought kruger didn't get playing time last year because he couldn't play special teams? if that is the case then it's waaay too early to write the guy off as a bust, especially if he is bulking up just like harbs wanted him to.

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

i thought kruger didn't get playing time last year because he couldn't play special teams? if that is the case then it's waaay too early to write the guy off as a bust, especially if he is bulking up just like harbs wanted him to.

:iagree:

[Lee Van Cleef]

I reckon he'll prob back-up Suggs this year. That might be his role going forward as I don't see him bulking up a huge amount.

[effo5231]

I reckon he'll prob back-up Suggs this year. That might be his role going forward as I don't see him bulking up a huge amount.

Trevor Pryce: 6'5 290

Paul Kruger: 6'4 and according to the Ravens, currently up to 275.

Is it really hard to imagine him adding another 5-10 pounds before week 1?

[pyite32]

He didn't blow me away when he got on the field last year, but I did think he had good instincts, made a couple good plays, and never stopped hustling. He will not be a huge pass rusher, but I think he will do enough to be a startin DE after Pryce.

[NCRAVEN]

Too small and not strong enough, Saw that before the sseason started. Hopefully all this working out will change that.

[baltimore_hokie]

It is entirely too early to write this guy off completely, but I am not expecting much this year. I am assuming that it will take time to get strong enough at the POA that he is a real weapon, but I think he could be an asset in a year or two.

He was taken in the second round as somewhat of a project, but he is a tough football player. We will get 100% effort from him, and that's all we can ask for.

I haven't seen many 3-4 DE's bulk up and become elite like he is being asked to do, but I won't say that it can't happen.

[NC Raven]

I have hopes for the guy - I thought based on his body-type and his speed and athleticism that he would have an Adalius Thomas type role. Surprising that he couldn't help on ST last year. It's starting to look more and more that he's really going to have to battle to be anything more than a bottom of the depth chart guy. It appears to me he has the ability, but I can't see a whole lot from him till 2011 at the earliest, and based on the draft and FA, it doesn't seem like the Ravens are planning on him doing a lot this year.

[grayplay]

As far as his physique, Kruger's new size is comparable to Suggs, JJ , Edgar Jones and newly acquired Sergio Kindle. I wouldn't call Kruger a bust, if anything he is a player the team likes but is looking for a spot to use him. Unless forced into it, coach doesn't seem big on rushing players on to the field. He likes refined over raw.

How bout this, Kruger replaces Edgar Jones.
Edgar Jones gets converted again, this time to FB.
McClain gets moved to HB
McGahee eats a sandwich...no?

[Jeremiah W]

He looked good enough in the preseason that it was a suprise that he was inactive so much. He made one of the biggest plays of the year in OT vs the Steelers.

He could be the next Pryce or the next JJ still. Kruger is a player. I expect he will be around for a long time making plays or just playing his role, and like AD or one of those guys, you may never really know what his position was.

At 6'4 or 5 with his frame and in this program there is a pretty good chance he can get up to 285 from 265 if he is already at 275. He is a pass rusher for sure, but at 265, he could not really get off blocks. I loved the way he was able to set and swat passes and keep his contain though in those preseason games. They will coach him up.

[Jeremiah W]

As far as his physique, Kruger's new size is comparable to Suggs, JJ , Edgar Jones and newly acquired Sergio Kindle. I wouldn't call Kruger a bust, if anything he is a player the team likes but is looking for a spot to use him. Unless forced into it, coach doesn't seem big on rushing players on to the field. He likes refined over raw.

How bout this, Kruger replaces Edgar Jones.
Edgar Jones gets converted again, this time to FB.
McClain gets moved to HB
McGahee eats a sandwich...no?

They did move Jones to FB. I hope he finds a way to make the roster again, but we are now loaded with 250-275 lb athletes.

There are going to be some serious special teams battles for those bubble roster spots and the gameday 45.

[skip727]

If he really is up to 270 then maybe Michael McCrary can teach him some new tricks and give the Ravens a new weapon in the arsenal.

[baltimore_hokie]

If he really is up to 270 then maybe Michael McCrary can teach him some new tricks and give the Ravens a new weapon in the arsenal.

I would be disappointed if he only shows up at 270. You really need to be 290-300 to play the 5-technique in the NFL. He has a lanky body that will not be able to hold up at the POA without a significant amount of mass and strength added to his frame.

With significant weight losses always seen during training camp, he really would need to report at around 300 pounds to have any chance of being at a decent playing weight (remember D-Will losing like 12 pounds on the first day of TC last year?). I hope he is dedicated this off-season and puts on the weight and muscle he needs to. Having him in the DL rotation could make this front-seven lethal.

[Rxdoxx]

He looked good enough in the preseason that it was a suprise that he was inactive so much. He made one of the biggest plays of the year in OT vs the Steelers.


I remember that well. Numberous threads/discussions of us trying to figure out why he wasn't getting time.
Was he dinged?
Was he in the doghouse?
He didn't play ST and we had somewhat stttled for that until that interception, then it started up again.

Finally we learned it was a weight issue for the role the coaches wanted him doing, and the discussion in those areas died.
Now we discuss his weight, muscle mass, fat ratio, conditioning and reports are encouraging to say the least.

Won't really be able to see more than that until scrimmages and pre-season, then we will have a better handle on how he fits into what the coaches want him doing, can't gauge on-field strength increase before then, only hope it is there.

[Jeremiah W]

I would be disappointed if he only shows up at 270. You really need to be 290-300 to play the 5-technique in the NFL. He has a lanky body that will not be able to hold up at the POA without a significant amount of mass and strength added to his frame.

With significant weight losses always seen during training camp, he really would need to report at around 300 pounds to have any chance of being at a decent playing weight (remember D-Will losing like 12 pounds on the first day of TC last year?). I hope he is dedicated this off-season and puts on the weight and muscle he needs to. Having him in the DL rotation could make this front-seven lethal.

You do not need to be that big to rush the QB. It may be tough to hold the edge in the run game vs a RT, but plenty of premier pass rushers go less then 300 lbs. I think he just needs to continue to get stronger and work on his moves and he will be fine.

With the big guys we have to play on run downs, the rush specialists should be facing a lot of long yardage situations where they can pretty much forget about the run and just get after the QB from wider angles.

[baltimore_hokie]

You do not need to be that big to rush the QB. It may be tough to hold the edge in the run game vs a RT, but plenty of premier pass rushers go less then 300 lbs. I think he just needs to continue to get stronger and work on his moves and he will be fine.

With the big guys we have to play on run downs, the rush specialists should be facing a lot of long yardage situations where they can pretty much forget about the run and just get after the QB from wider angles.

He needs to be able to hold up against the run in order for him to get on the field as a DE in our system. He doesn't have the athleticism to compete with our edge rushers, but hopefully he can be athletic enough to rush from the DL.

[psuasskicker]

i thought kruger didn't get playing time last year because he couldn't play special teams? if that is the case then it's waaay too early to write the guy off as a bust, especially if he is bulking up just like harbs wanted him to.

The guy could barely crack the roster and hardly ever made the field as a 2nd round draft pick on a team desperate for pass rush help. Read between the lines and it's pretty easy to see that we shouldn't expect much if anything from him.

Like I said, I'm not writing him off. But I don't have high hopes...anything we get from this kid is just gravy.

- C -

[jonboy79]

As far as his physique, Kruger's new size is comparable to Suggs, JJ , Edgar Jones and newly acquired Sergio Kindle. I wouldn't call Kruger a bust, if anything he is a player the team likes but is looking for a spot to use him. Unless forced into it, coach doesn't seem big on rushing players on to the field. He likes refined over raw.

How bout this, Kruger replaces Edgar Jones.
Edgar Jones gets converted again, this time to FB.
McClain gets moved to HB
McGahee eats a sandwich...no?

No... Jones becomes our Long Snapper... we need to get som emomentum on this idea...

[jonboy79]

The guy could barely crack the roster and hardly ever made the field as a 2nd round draft pick on a team desperate for pass rush help. Read between the lines and it's pretty easy to see that we shouldn't expect much if anything from him.

Like I said, I'm not writing him off. But I don't have high hopes...anything we get from this kid is just gravy.

- C -
+1
If we can get a passable 2 down DE I'll be happy.

[ravenwoman]

Quite frankly, we don't know anything about Paul Kruger. I just remember the key interception in the Pittsburgh game that allowed us to win the game in overtime.

I am more than willing to give the man a chance. I understand that he has been working out really hard and doing everything the Ravens ask. That is all he can do and I look forward to seeing him play.

[misbehavinraven]

i thought kruger didn't get playing time last year because he couldn't play special teams? if that is the case then it's waaay too early to write the guy off as a bust, especially if he is bulking up just like harbs wanted him to.

I agree, and Kruger did get let out because he does not play special teams. He also took a few years off football for his Mormon mission. From what I understand, if he learns the game a tad bit more, he has an incredible motor, and can help us tremendously. BTW that interception he made last year to win the game for us over Steelers, put us in playoffs.

[Dave Lap]

Paul Kruger is not and has never been a pass rush specialist.

At his best, he will be a Rob Burnett/Anthony Weaver type guy.

Not saying he won't be a good player, but people's thoughts of him being a pass rushing OLB just weren't correct.

Agree. I don't know where Kruger seemed to get the rep as a pass rush guy. He was drafted more on his instincts, motor, and frame capable of adding weight.

I'm among those who think he will become a solid starter.

[psuasskicker]

Some of you don't seem to understand that not getting on the field cause he doesn't play special teams isn't a "neutral," it's a "bad." If you're not good enough to get on the field unless you play ST, and you don't play ST, why do you think that this doesn't tell you anything about the likelihood of him being a player?

Last year, of all 2nd round picks, Kruger was t25-27 out of 32 players in total number of games played, according to PFR. Two of the guys below him included Loadholt and Vollmer, both of whom got fairly significant playing time. There were very few if any 2nd round picks last year that contributed LESS than Kruger did. This is not a meaningless observation. It is relevant, and tells you all you need to know about the likelihood of his becoming a viable starter or even a viable role player.

This is not to say it WON'T happen. But it is not likely it will; and you need to come to grips with the fact that we already do know something about him, and it's not good.

- C -

[Flipping Birdie]

Last year, of all 2nd round picks, Kruger was t25-27 out of 32 players in total number of games played, according to PFR. Two of the guys below him included Loadholt and Vollmer, both of whom got fairly significant playing time. There were very few if any 2nd round picks last year that contributed LESS than Kruger did. -

Not taking a position on Kruger one way or the other, but these indicators also show that he was one of the few 2nd rd guys in the draft that couldn't play special teams, as well as how deep the Ravens were at OLB. The majority of 2nd round guys could play special teams and suited up 16 times.

[AirFlacco]

An interesting article on 1st and 2d round busts. Did Kruger fall under this:


An NFL draft bust is a player who was selected in the 1st or 2nd round and played 67% or more below the expected performance of his specific pick number.









http://www.ninersnation.com/2010/4/22/1437589/logarithmic-decay-in-the-nfl-draft





MOUNT NACODY - NO RUNNING ALLOWED.

[JimZipCode]

Kruger sure looked like a football player when he returned that INT for a TD.

[psuasskicker]

Kruger sure looked like a football player when he returned that INT for a TD.

You really went there, didn't you...

http://baltimoresun.image2.trb.com/balnews/media/photo/2008-11/43661906.jpg

- C -

[Rxdoxx]

An interesting article on 1st and 2d round busts. Did Kruger fall under this:
An NFL draft bust is a player who was selected in the 1st or 2nd round and played 67% or more below the expected performance of his specific pick number.


http://www.ninersnation.com/2010/4/22/1437589/logarithmic-decay-in-the-nfl-draft




Interesting article, interesting read, guy did a lot of work and basically busted his theorys, but definitly food for thought.

I saw Craig Powell as a Baltimore bust, confess I had to look that one up, can see that he had to add it that way for stats since he was chosen by old Cleveland.

I'd love to see someone do a correlation on rounds 3-7 pro-bowlers, have a gut feeling that would directly corrolate with success.


As to Kruger, too soon to gauge anything, we should be able to do some after this year.

[UKRavenGordon]

Kruger sure looked like a football player when he returned that INT for a TD.

When did he do this? He picked one off against Pitt but didn't return it for 6.

Here's my concern with Kruger bulking up. He was naturally, what, 260lbs? And now we're expecting him to put on 30-40 pounds and maintain that at a playing weight - that's asking an awful lot in terms of conditioning and maintaining this motor we keep hearing about.

[Mike B]

i thought kruger didn't get playing time last year because he couldn't play special teams? if that is the case then it's waaay too early to write the guy off as a bust, especially if he is bulking up just like harbs wanted him to.

That was the reason given. On the Ravens, Special teams comes first, sort of.

[Carey]

He'll be in their on 3rd down, im rooting for him to put on the bulk necessary to play the 5 tech and beat out some of the other guys for playing time on first and second down but it doesnt look like that'll be the case this year. Ngata, Gregg, Redding, Pryce and Cody will get a bulk of the snaps on the D-Line while Kruger will play in passing situations. And thats ok, i think we all see he's a bit of a project so we allow him to continue to develop.

[JimZipCode]

Some of you don't seem to understand that not getting on the field cause he doesn't play special teams isn't a "neutral," it's a "bad." If you're not good enough to get on the field unless you play ST, and you don't play ST, why do you think that this doesn't tell you anything about the likelihood of him being a player?
Last year, of all 2nd round picks, Kruger was t25-27 out of 32 players in total number of games played, according to PFR. ... There were very few if any 2nd round picks last year that contributed LESS than Kruger did.
It's one thing not to be able to crack the defensive rotation on, say, the Lions. It's another thing not to be able to crack the defensive rotation on the Ravens. I cut Kruger some slack on that basis. Exactly whose playing time was Kruger supposed to take? Jarret Johnson's? Trevor Pryce's? They used Antwan Barnes as a situational pass rusher often last year.

It took the rookie a while to get on the field. That happens. Terrell Suggs didn't start his rookie season: he was a situational pass rusher. Kruger eventually did get on the field, and played in 9 games (starting 1) for the #3 D in the NFL. That's not worthless: it's something to build on.

Didn't Kruger play on the line in college? PFR lists him as a DE, but I remember the Ravens using him more at OLB last season. I think the game he started he was a DE, but most of his appearances were at OLB. (Am I right about that?) That suggests a reason why it took Kruger a while to get on the field: learning a new role. In addition to the INT, his stat line at PFR shows 3 passes defensed, more than Barnes and Dannell Ellerbe and Corey Ivy and Tavares Gooden and Brendon Ayanbadejo. (I know Ayanbadejo only played in 4 games: but he was the nickel linebacker. His role was to drop into coverage. He should amass PD's. His stat line projects out to only one more PD on the season than Kruger got.) So Kruger was asked to drop into coverage. I bet he never, ever did that in college.

Of course it took him a while to get onto the field.

Here's another reason I cut Kruger some slack. My dad told me years ago, back in the days when he would take me to Colts games at Memorial Stadium, that it takes a few years for defensive lineman to develop. I guess his observations was that they need to physically mature into effective players. I dunno if a study would show that to be true: but my dad dropped that into my ears when I was at an impressionable age, and now I don't expect a ton from rookie D-linemen.

DeCosta told us on draft day last year, that they picked Kruger as a bit of a project. He said their ultimate plan was to play Kruger at D-end a couple years down the road, after he'd packed on a few pounds; and that in the meantime they'd probably use Kruger some at OLB his rookie year. That's something the Steelers do all the time. They draft tweeners, spend a couple years developing them, and then unleash them on the league. Nothing we saw last year from Kruger, in any way contradicted what DeCosta said on draft day. It was exactly what DeCosta said would happen.

So those are my four reasons why I'm not down on Kruger yet:

• Good squad; not a lot of playing time for rookies.
• Different role; takes time to learn it.
• What my Dad once told me about D-linemen.
• DeCosta's setting of expectations.

This offseason is key for Kruger. When training camp opens, and they start playing exhibition games, we'll finally start to see Kruger in the role that the Ravens planned for him. I think then, and only then, can we really start to have an informed opinion about whether he can be a good player or not.

In the meantime – he's kinda right on track with what DeCosta said on draft day. That's reassuring.

[JimZipCode]

So those are my four reasons why I'm not down on Kruger yet:
I guess there's a fifth, soft reason: I was not thrilled with how Mattison used our defensive personnel last year. It felt to me that he was not mixing up packages enough, not getting enough guys on the field.

(Specifically he wasn't getting Jameel McClain enough snaps at OLB.)

So Kruger not getting on the field, I didn't necessarily hold that against him. There were a few guys not getting on the field where & when I expected them to.

(I miss Rex)

[psuasskicker]

I get that, but when you can't push your way into the lineup in front of Barnes/Ayanbadejo/McClain/Bannan/Edwards, then it says something about how likely you are to be a good to great football player. I'm not at all writing him off. But I think it's not right to expect he's suddenly going to become starter or even role player worthy...

- C -

[Dave Lap]

I get that, but when you can't push your way into the lineup in front of Barnes/Ayanbadejo/McClain/Bannan/Edwards, then it says something about how likely you are to be a good to great football player. I'm not at all writing him off. But I think it's not right to expect he's suddenly going to become starter or even role player worthy...

- C -

You could be right but I think it is too early to judge. A general observation concerning projections of draftees: Pessimists will be right more often. Optimists will have more fun.

[psuasskicker]

You could be right but I think it is too early to judge.

Why do you think that's anything different than what I said?

- C -

[Dave Lap]

Why do you think that's anything different than what I said?

- C -

I thought I was agreeing with you. Maybe I mis-worded.

[jonboy79]

I think the forum software is stuck in some sort of argument mode... or us posters...

[Rxdoxx]

I think the forum software is stuck in some sort of argument mode... or us posters...

I take issue with that! :happyanim

Yep, not much else to talk about, no new news going to come in for a while. unless you want to count Willis as Grand Marshall, real barn-burner topic there :eyes: Just occasional signing news to trickle in for a while.

At least its Ravens talk :thumbup: and not about another local who has tanked their season already :grbac:

[Stealthbirds80]

I like Kruger, but something tells me that he doesn't start over Redding on the other side. It is something about the Ravens when they bring in freeagents on defense. We get the best out of them.

[baltimore_hokie]

“paul kruger is going to be working at defensive end during minicamp,” said defensive coordinator greg mattison. ”that’s what he was drafted as. we knew that it would take time for him to gain the weight and the strength. He did it. Now, it’s time for him to move where we want him.”

thank you.

[effo5231]

thank you.

Seriously.... I've been preaching that Gospel for a year now and everyone keeps insisting that Kruger is an OLB. Wanna take bets that this doesn't shut up the "Kruger is bust" crowd?

[Raveninwoodlawn]

He'll be in their on 3rd down, im rooting for him to put on the bulk necessary to play the 5 tech and beat out some of the other guys for playing time on first and second down but it doesnt look like that'll be the case this year. Ngata, Gregg, Redding, Pryce and Cody will get a bulk of the snaps on the D-Line while Kruger will play in passing situations. And thats ok, i think we all see he's a bit of a project so we allow him to continue to develop.

Why would Kruger play on passing downs? Who is he going to play in front of?

Suggs, Kindle, Pryce, Ngata, and JJ are all better pass rushers and if we can get the Redding close to what he was 3 years ago, he is better as well.

I'm still wondering how/where people see this pass rushing talent from him? He is going to be a high motor, lunchpail type guy.

[effo5231]

Why would Kruger play on passing downs? Who is he going to play in front of?

Suggs, Kindle, Pryce, Ngata, and JJ are all better pass rushers

The bolded players don't play the same position as Kruger. He doesn't have to get in front of them. And Pryce is clearly a part time player at this point in his career.


and if we can get the Redding close to what he was 3 years ago, he is better as well.


That is a HUGE if.

[baltimore_hokie]

Kruger will compete with Pryce and Redding for snaps this year. He will likely be an upgrade for the pass rush, especially compared to Bannan and Edwards from last year. He's not quiet as big as those guys for holding up against the run yet, but his skill set will be suited better for a pass rushing role at DE.

While he was not explosive enough to be a viable pass rushing threat at OLB, he will be plenty explosive for a DE. At 275 pounds and similar agility as he had last year, he could be pretty dangerous at DE against the pass. If he can use his explosiveness, which was average at OLB but will be above-average at 5-technique, he could be a nice pass rushing weapon. Add in his motor, and you could have an Aaron Smith-like player for us.

He was drafted knowing that he wouldn't contribute right away. He was never going to be a great OLB because he just doesn't have that skill set. People can write him off already, but he will come into his own in the next couple years as he continues to put weight and strength on. It may take another year (or two), but Kruger will likely be Pryce's full-time replacement and a solid contributor on the DL.

[Carey]

Why would Kruger play on passing downs? Who is he going to play in front of?

Suggs, Kindle, Pryce, Ngata, and JJ are all better pass rushers and if we can get the Redding close to what he was 3 years ago, he is better as well.

I'm still wondering how/where people see this pass rushing talent from him? He is going to be a high motor, lunchpail type guy.

If he's gonna play its gonna be more so on passing down then it is on run downs, i also think he'll benefit from having his hand on the ground. His playing time is not a given, he has to go earn it but i do think he has the potential to do so. Your absolutely right about the guys ahead of him but those guys will need a blow, especially Pryce, it'll be nice to try to lessen his snaps to heighten his effectiveness.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

The bolded players don't play the same position as Kruger. He doesn't have to get in front of them. And Pryce is clearly a part time player at this point in his career.


That is a HUGE if.

Yeah...I'm not talking about specific positions. He likely will not be primary rusher on the outside because of Suggs, Kindle and JJ. And he is likely not a primary rusher inside because of Pryce, Ngata and maybe Redding. I never pegged him in one position...that is why I named all the players that will have a large role rushing the passer on the line.

And of course its a huge if...that is why I put the disclaimer in there. Not sure what you are trying to disagree with?

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Kruger will compete with Pryce and Redding for snaps this year. He will likely be an upgrade for the pass rush, especially compared to Bannan and Edwards from last year. He's not quiet as big as those guys for holding up against the run yet, but his skill set will be suited better for a pass rushing role at DE.

While he was not explosive enough to be a viable pass rushing threat at OLB, he will be plenty explosive for a DE. At 275 pounds and similar agility as he had last year, he could be pretty dangerous at DE against the pass. If he can use his explosiveness, which was average at OLB but will be above-average at 5-technique, he could be a nice pass rushing weapon. Add in his motor, and you could have an Aaron Smith-like player for us.

He was drafted knowing that he wouldn't contribute right away. He was never going to be a great OLB because he just doesn't have that skill set. People can write him off already, but he will come into his own in the next couple years as he continues to put weight and strength on. It may take another year (or two), but Kruger will likely be Pryce's full-time replacement and a solid contributor on the DL.

Move him inside on passing downs where his lack of explosive quickness won't be a problem against OT's and maybe will be a plus against the slower, shorter armed guards and centers.