OT - O's Trainwreck - Markakis/Angelos lunch

[Losac]

Seems like forever until training camp, but thought I'd get a discussion going on the awful O's. There was a Sun article about Nick Markakis having lunch with Angelos and voicing his concerns about the team. I think this is great as the O's really need some clubhouse leaders at this point. Nick's always been a quiet guy, so for him to take the initiative to talk to Peter the Great is a big step. Who knows if the guy in charge will actually listen, but I have to agree 100% with Nick's comments about adding productive veterans. You could see from a mile away that Atkins and Tejada were joke signings that wouldn't help the team one bit.

I also find it interesting how MacFail was sort of "passed over" in this discussion. Kind of makes you realize who is still the one in charge.

[HoustonRaven]

Angelos wants to win. I really believe that. You do not get to the level of business success he has achieved without a genuine drive to win and succeed at everything you do.

That said, I just think he is way over his head and his ego wont allow him to not be in the mix with every decision. Much like Danny Snyder with the Skins, he cant help himself. He is the Mungo that is loving his little pet rabbit just a little too much. See what happened to Davey Johnson when he bucked the owner? It did not matter he was successful, he crossed the owner and ego dictated Johnson be ousted.

As for MacFail, he is a lap dog and nothing more. He may have the acumen to be a GM, but we will never know because he is forced into being an Angelos yes man.

[Mr. Mojo Rizon]

There was a Sun article about Nick Markakis having lunch with Angelos and voicing his concerns about the team.

I heard they just shared coffee and baklava!


As for MacFail, he is a lap dog and nothing more. He may have the acumen to be a GM, but we will never know because he is forced into being an Angelos yes man.

I don't see MacPhail (like your spelling better Houston) as a lap dog although having said that I do think he's way overrated. WAY!

[Losac]

Angelos wants to win. I really believe that. You do not get to the level of business success he has achieved without a genuine drive to win and succeed at everything you do.

That said, I just think he is way over his head and his ego wont allow him to not be in the mix with every decision. Much like Danny Snyder with the Skins, he cant help himself. He is the Mungo that is loving his little pet rabbit just a little too much. See what happened to Davey Johnson when he bucked the owner? It did not matter he was successful, he crossed the owner and ego dictated Johnson be ousted.

As for MacFail, he is a lap dog and nothing more. He may have the acumen to be a GM, but we will never know because he is forced into being an Angelos yes man.

Agree 100%. Everyone makes Angelos out to look like a guy who somehow wants to destroy the O's or see them fail and only is concerned with making more money. I think he really really does want them to succeed, but he's just incompetent and clueless as to how exactly to do it. He has never surrounded himself with good baseball people after Johnson and Pat Gillick left, and basically is just guilty of very poor management. He's also never had any player come to him with concerns like this, so the fact that Markakis did so is a big deal.

The more comments I hear from MacFail on this manager search just makes him appear more indecisive, and look like he is really making all this up on the fly. "The Plan" is all a sham. Look how fast the Marlins are moving on their search, and it takes MacFail weeks between interviews as he keeps saying "I don't know" and "let the process play out" to every question.

I just hope Markakis' comments will force Angelos to tell MacFail to actually open up his checkbook this winter for some REAL impact free agents and not bargain-basement retreads like Atkins.

[Mista T]

I really think that they just wanted an opportunity to practice speaking their native Greek language, which was getting rusty. They should have invited me to facilitate.

:greece

I would have told them to bring back Gus Triandos, Billy Loes, and Milt Pappas as a three-man managerial team.

[purplepoe]

I made a bet two weeks ago that the Orioles won't have a winning season in the next 20 years.

And that's not counting the 12 seasons prior to this debacle we are witnessing.

I really dunno if Angelos wants to win as much as you all believe. Everyone knows a person who knows a person etc... but from what I know, he doesn't lose sleep over losing.

I mean, think about it. If he really cared that much, do you honestly think he'd do many of the things he's done?

Sure, I think he'd rather win than lose. But that's pretty much anyone on this planet.

I seriously doubt it's his #1 goal and I don't think making a list about the reasons is necessary.

As Losac said, "the plan" is a complete farce. I mean, MacPhail said during Samuel's introductory press conference that he is more convinced then ever that they are on the right track etc...

I don't care what anyone says, vying for the worst record in the history of the game 3 years into a rebuilding plan is beyond comprehension and certainly not part of any legit plan.

They don't draft well. People always wanna say that this is the TB model. No, it isn't. Tampa has good scouts and quality people in player development. The Orioles have neither. Just look at the position players in the minors. Garbage.

And what about next year? LF/SS/3B/1B all need to be fill with outside help. 2B? A broken down 32 year old with back issues that is signed through 2013 at $10 million year? Disaster.

Hell, the young "studs" that will be here next year have regressed this year.

It's a trainwreck and it's not getting better.

As for the "meeting" between King Pete and Markakis? Means nothing IMO.

PP

[CoverD]

Angelos doesn't care about winning in my opinion, it doesn't bother him that he's not making that much from the lack of fans due to our losing team because the man has MASN to rake in the dollars.

If he cared about winning he wouldn't allow MacPhail to trade away for all these crap prospects.

The Orioles are the farm team of the MLB and until Angelos is out as the owner, I don't see this team being anything more than a bottom dweller. Now, that's not to say I'm a fair weather fan, because I am a huge O's fan...but I'm just being realistic about our teams chances with Pete in charge.

[phatboy]

Angelos has ruined baseball for me. He is a greedy friggin lawyer who thinks he is smarter than everyone else no matter what the subject is. I despise the man who took my Orioles away. I quit watching after he fired Davey Johnson.
God I would love to have the ownership of the 60's 70's and 80's back.

[Losac]

They don't draft well. People always wanna say that this is the TB model. No, it isn't. Tampa has good scouts and quality people in player development. The Orioles have neither. Just look at the position players in the minors. Garbage.


I'm starting to agree about the drafting. Matt Hobgood last year was a pathetic pick. They took him because he would be easy to sign. Look at Mike Leake and Drew Storen, taken after him and both are already tearing it up in the majors while Hobgood is struggling in A-ball.

There are absolutely no position players to speak of. Josh Bell and Brandon Snyder are the top prospects and neither looks like much of anything right now. And I have my doubts they'll be able to sign Machado.

Not to mention they traded a 2nd round pick this year for Mike Fucking Gonzalez. Great move there, Andy.

[baltimore_hokie]

I'm starting to agree about the drafting. Matt Hobgood last year was a pathetic pick. They took him because he would be easy to sign. Look at Mike Leake and Drew Storen, taken after him and both are already tearing it up in the majors while Hobgood is struggling in A-ball.

There are absolutely no position players to speak of. Josh Bell and Brandon Snyder are the top prospects and neither looks like much of anything right now. And I have my doubts they'll be able to sign Machado.

Not to mention they traded a 2nd round pick this year for Mike Fucking Gonzalez. Great move there, Andy.

Mike Leake was an overachiever with just average "stuff" that wasn't supposed to play at the professional level. It hasn't turned out that way, but the O's weren't the only organization to pass on him.

I'm not as down on the Hobgood pick as others, and it is entirely too early to write him off (see Kruger, Paul). I am all about spending 10-15M on every draft, but if they really saw all those guys as more or less equals I am all for getting several over-slots later in the draft.

Gonzalez and Atkins were awful, but Tejada, Millwood, and Ohman have been solid. I had much more faith with Andy before this season, but all hope is not lost.

I honestly think that getting a manager like Buck Showalter, who can come in and tell McPhail/Angelos that they need to change some things or the O's will never return to what they once were, is key. They didn't care what Trembley had to say, to Buck has some experience with situations similar to the O's.

All in all, I still follow the O's like I have since I can remember. I really wish Andy would realize how much room we have to catch up to the elite teams in MLB, but he seems too complacent. Maybe a guy like Showalter can come in and ruffle some feathers, tell Andy to put more money into drafting (domestic and ESPECIALLY international) and to spend on quality free agents.

I'm not giving up yet because it will make it all that much sweeter when the O's return to glory. We have to keep it in perspective: the O's were the franchise everyone wanted to be for 30 years, the Red Sox went decades without a championship, Steinbrenner is constantly referenced on Seinfeld for not being able to produce a winner (I was watching the other day and saw that, pretty funny with how they have been recently). It's our time, and Angelos and Co have made a ton of bad decisions to get it to this point. Fans are fans forever, so don't jump ship quite yet. At least we have the Ravens!

[Mr. Mojo Rizon]

I really think that they just wanted an opportunity to practice speaking their native Greek language, which was getting rusty.

And the only thing they agreed upon is: μας πιπιλίζουν

[Mista T]

μας πιπιλίζουν

:ref: bad words!

[Captain Offense]

The fact that he is a lawyer is not relevant. I can point to idiot owners in many business fields. Best not to get off topic with a nonsensical argument.

My view of it is that he is a businessman who figured his success gave him some vision from above. The evidence to me was 1997 when Gillick wanted to move players to go young for the future and Angelos vetoed him to win now. So does anybody really remember who made the playoffs every year or just the World Series winner, if even that? So the long-range view is ditched for a one-year wonder and we pay the price for years. The Fantasy Baseball decisions from that point forward, as well as the ego factor, let good baseball people pass the environment or get run out of town. The hole was dug so deep that it will take a long time to recover.

While my kids grew up in the late 80's and 90's I took them to games and enjoyed the atmosphere. They soaked in baseball and had fun. The Albert Belle/Free Agent Era turned me off and it was not until Andy came on board that I turned to putting my money into season tickets. I am now starting to lose the luster again and it is sad. Watching the sparse crowds and hearing the hated New York/Boston cheers downtown is very disheartening. It will take a major A-kicking top to bottom to draw any more interest.

At the end of the day, I just thank Art Modell from the bottom of my heart and wish the Jerk from Cleveland the flies of a thousand camels to infest his armpits as long as he campaigns against Art for the Hall.

[ravenwoman]

I gave up on the Orioles years ago. It was a slow divorce, but I started falling out of love with them starting with the Glenn Davis trade when we traded Shilling, Harnich and Finley. Three excellent players.

This owner is only interested in one thing--making money. If he really wanted to compete with the Yankees and Boston with a big payroll, he could. Look at the MASN deal and how much he controls the purses of the Nationals. He is in a can't lose situation (with the money, that is). Also, he has millions from his law firm that he could tap for additional reserves. However, that is not his objective. His objective is to make money and as long as he or his family owns the team, the Orioles will never, ever, win again or be competitive. Purple Poe's bet is money in the bank.

[DVGN]

I gave up on the Orioles years ago. It was a slow divorce, but I started falling out of love with them starting with the Glenn Davis trade when we traded Shilling, Harnich and Finley. Three excellent players.

This owner is only interested in one thing--making money. If he really wanted to compete with the Yankees and Boston with a big payroll, he could. Look at the MASN deal and how much he controls the purses of the Nationals. He is in a can't lose situation (with the money, that is). Also, he has millions from his law firm that he could tap for additional reserves. However, that is not his objective. His objective is to make money and as long as he or his family owns the team, the Orioles will never, ever, win again or be competitive. Purple Poe's bet is money in the bank.

I agree completely.

Per month Angelos makes something like a dollar per household for every cable subscriber with MASN -- which means he's making hundreds of millions of dollars annually. (Remember being told that MASN will help the Orioles compete? I do. :ralph:) That's not to mention the Orioles are already, even without network money, one of the more profitable teams in MLB. The minute Angelos decides that winning is preferable to lining the coffers, this team will spend at the level of the Red Sox -- urgent newsflash to the orange kool-aid drinking apologists: THEY CAN AFFORD TO -- and they will win.

Sadly, that day will never come.

I'm at the point where I don't even accept that these losers are Baltimore Orioles ("perfect practice makes perfect!") -- they are Baltimore Angel'O's ("don't worry boys, ineptitude is still profitable in Baltimore") and they should be shunned and derided like the imposters they are.

Bottom line: dissent is patriotic. Don't go to the games; don't buy the apparel; and, most of all, don't make excuses for this laughable organization.

[NC Raven]

Angelos wants to win. I really believe that. You do not get to the level of business success he has achieved without a genuine drive to win and succeed at everything you do.

True, but just about everybody gets old and loses that edge at some point. Angelos lost his a while back. And just because somebody is competitive and successful in one place, doesn't mean they'll have the same drive elsewhere. Michael Jordan had as much drive as anyone has ever had, but it didn't help him hit a curveball and eventually, he quit and got back to what he was great at.

Key words: he quit. Of all people.

Angelos quit on the Orioles a long time ago. He's too old, and doesn't want it anymore. He may competitive in theory, in the same way Michael Jordan was surely competitive in his approach to baseball, but it's not his thing, and he's realized it's not his thing, and he's pulled back from trying to hang with the big boys. He can't do it, and he knows it. He's a big boy a lot of other places, but in MLB, he's a pathetic joke.

[AirFlacco]

Bob Irsay wanted to win too and made the POs twice. Petey won in the beginning when he hired
Gilleck and Davey JOhnson. We made the POs 2 years in a row and then he started
meddling and Gilleck took off, Davey was fired and the team has plummeted ever since.

Palmer said Markakis was right but said it's not Crowley's fault.

They had the 1970 World Series team there today and I was going but
it would have been a $100 for tics, parking, food, tunnel and gas.

I pay more than that for a Ravens game but not Os.

I wear my orange Os hat around town and people say they suck. I
say they're still the home town team but I ain't paying $100 for
baseball.

[FHRaven]

This owner is only interested in one thing--making money.

Nailed it. I'm sure he'd love it if the ream could win at the same time, but the $40 million a year in profit is what he's really interested in.

Until there are new owners running the team, rooting for the Orioles will be like getting hit in the head with a 2x4 every Summer day.

[Mr. Mojo Rizon]

3 wins in a row!

How 'bout dem O's hon?

They are PTPers BABY!!!