Somebody is going to get hurt

[Stealthbirds80]

Wow, just wow. Is this WWE or what? Just saw this on sunspot. Someone's going to die on the field (not really). This is becoming what the NFL wants, a ratings bonanza...


http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2010/09/ray_lewis_on_jets_if_youre_the_miami_heat_we_got_to_be_the_l.html

[Drkraven]

I was thinking to myself watching Hard Knocks Rexy screwed the pooch with that statement. Ray should play like a man possessed .

[pyite32]

I wish he would just keep his mouth shut and use it on the field though. Why give them any extra motivation?

[Losac]

Anyone else still wish this fat blowhard was our head coach?

[bmorebirds_24]

We all knew this fat bitch would start, it was just a matter of when. We all know what Ray can do and so does Rex...This game is going to be nasty and I am sure when Ray makes the big play Rex will hear about it from him.


I'm so glad we didn't hire this prick. He's a 400 pound joke! I know Sanchez is probably thinking, Rex what are you doing here???


Sanchez reminds me A LOT of a younger Boller! I would bully him around early, it's football so make the hits count.

[RavenScallywag]

ok, i don't watch Hard Knocks, but from the summary of what happened there, I didn't read it as Rex trying to insult Ray, but more just mentioning that Ray called some plays too. Did he say it like "look how much better Sanchez did"?

[camdenyard]

Man, I love it. Ray's ready!

[Drkraven]

He told Sanchez he was going to call plays because he had Ed and Ray do it in Baltimore and they tapped out after a few. I just laughed, because Ray has been calling the D for years.

[Ravenswarrior19]

And another football season has begun in Baltimore

full audio in wnst audio vault

AW article: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Ray-Lewis-The-game-aint-played-through-tongues.html

[CoverD]

Its all about the media, Rex Ryan would probably still be a blowhard if he was the coach here, but being in NY his loudmouth opinion is magnified. And he's using the media to pump himself up and be more brash and bold with what he says. I personally cannot wait for them to crash and burn.

I doubt that anyone would take Rex as serious if he was here in Baltimore with his statements, the only reason he's getting any press is because its NY.

[AirFlacco]

Even Billick said Rex should tone it down.

Billick!


:ww:

:laugh:

[psuasskicker]

Ryan may be mouthy but I remember many of the same people whining about it now also lauding Billick for doing literally the exact same thing during our Superbowl run.

You guys here may or may not like Rex Ryan. But let's keep a little perspective here.

1) You all love it when our guys are the ones that do this.

2) Rex Ryan is an extremely good football coach.

The Ravens are a better football team than the Jets, but the Jets are more likely to win because they're still a very good football team, and the Vegas line bears this out.

This game should be great, though. Ugly, smash-mouth football at its finest.

- C -

[Greg]

The list of people I do not want to piss off in order of fear.

God
Ray Lewis
Chuck Norris
Jack Bauer
. . . massive gap.
Guys that lead prison gangs


Ryan may be mouthy but I remember many of the same people whining about it now also lauding Billick for doing literally the exact same thing during our Superbowl run.

During our SUPER BOWL RUN, not during preseason. Billick wouldn't even let the "P" word be uttered until we were in. Sure, the Jets made the playoffs last year, after being 7-7 and gifted two conference wins by teams already in the playoffs with seeding set.


The Ravens are a better football team than the Jets, but the Jets are more likely to win because they're still a very good football team, and the Vegas line bears this out.

Nonsense, the Vegas line bears out the hype the Jets have been getting. Lines are not set on who should win, they are set on how the betting is anticipated to go and then moved in response to the betting. It is paramutual wagering with a house edge built in via a premium charged to the loser.

The Ravens are a better football team, and in my estimation a MUCH better football team. I will be disappointed if we win by less than 8 points.

[Dave Lap]

The list of people I do not want to piss off in order of fear.

God
Ray Lewis
Chuck Norris
Jack Bauer
. . . massive gap.
Guys that lead prison gangs

LOL!

[Flipping Birdie]

Ya know, smack talk between players of different teams is fun, and I can honestly say that I never really tire of hearing it; but to listen to a coach engage in smack talk with players from opposing teams is just pathetic and undignified. It's like a dad going to his kid's elementary school and picking fights with the other kids.

[Losac]

Ya know, smack talk between players of different teams is fun, and I can honestly say that I never really tire of hearing it; but to listen to a coach engage in smack talk with players from opposing teams is just pathetic and undignified. It's like a dad going to his kid's elementary school and picking fights with the other kids.

:word

Exactly. He did it last year with that guy from the Dolphins (Channing Crowder I think), and then he flipped off a group of Miami fans. What kind of NFL coach acts like this?

Can anyone picture Harbs talking smack about say, Troy Polamalu to the media before a Ravens/Steelers game? Neither can I.

But hey, Rex is fun and boisterous so it's ok.

[HoustonRaven]

Personally, I hate this talk by both teams.

Last time there was this much pre game chatter was last October, just before the Bengals came to town. We all know how well that turned out.

Ray got it in his head he was going to shut up Ochocinco and he and a few others committed some pretty dumb penalties as a result.

[DVGN]

Anyone who didn't see the episode should really try to avoid commenting on this. You have no idea what you're talking about, and you're only making yourself look like a stupid homer.

There was nothing offensive about what Rex said whatsoever. He was asking Sanchez if he wanted to call plays, and recounted having Ed Reed and Ray run the defense because they thought it would be easy. It was harder than they expected, and after a few plays, they wanted out.

The point of his bringing that up was his suggesting that coaching on the sidelines is hard, and seemed to say "even these guys had trouble with it."

The only emotion I could sense in what Rex was saying -- other than his laughter, because it was a funny story -- was a lingering affection for those two players.


Some soundbite-hungry journalist obviously spun what Rex said so they could goad Ray into a good quote, which obviously worked. Ray said in a recent interview that he doesn't even watch the show.



Anyone else still wish this fat blowhard was our head coach?

*raises hand*

[Galen Sevinne]

This upcoming game has a certain feeling to me. It has that feeling like right before the opener against Tampa Bay in 2006 and right before the playing the 6-0 Broncos in 2009.

Go back and check the scores of you don't remember how those games turned out when everyone was circle jerking the opposing team all week and giving the Ravens no love.

I think Sanchez throws three picks Monday Night somewhere after Ray does a Tony Sirgusa ballet dance on his shoulder.

Seriously Rex...you're calling out Ray Lewis? Where do you go from there?

Actually I thought Ray kept it fairly classy in responding to Rex although I would have rather he just ignored it.

[Galen Sevinne]

Anyone who didn't see the episode should really try to avoid commenting on this. You have no idea what you're talking about, and you're only making yourself look like a stupid homer.

There was nothing offensive about what Rex said whatsoever. He was asking Sanchez if he wanted to call plays, and recounted having Ed Reed and Ray run the defense because they thought it would be easy. It was harder than they expected, and after a few plays, they wanted out.

The point of his bringing that up was his suggesting that coaching on the sidelines is hard, and seemed to say "even these guys had trouble with it."

The only emotion I could sense in what Rex was saying -- other than his laughter, because it was a funny story -- was a lingering affection for those two players.


Some soundbite-hungry journalist obviously spun what Rex said so they could goad Ray into a good quote, which obviously worked. Ray said in a recent interview that he doesn't even watch the show.




*raises hand*

My understanding (and I haven't watched mre than 15 minutes of H.K.) was that Rex said Ray "tapped out". Now maybe the context is similar to what you are suggesting but the phrase "tap out" has a lot connotation.

[DVGN]

My understanding (and I haven't watched mre than 15 minutes of H.K.) was that Rex said Ray "tapped out". Now maybe the context is similar to what you are suggesting but the phrase "tap out" has a lot connotation.

He meant tapping their headsets -- which Rex gestured by tapping the side of his head.

He wasn't deliberately trying to evoke the wrestling analogy -- but even if he had been, so what? The man was talking to a player about a task he wanted him to perform, and used his memories of his time at Baltimore as a reference. Apparently, Ray and Ed didn't like calling plays so they gave up on it. "Tapping Out" sounds like a pretty apt -- and basically inoffensive -- analogy!

If I gave up on something, and someone said "you tapped out," I would not find that offensive.

Also, you're not "smack-talking" when you're being videotaped damn-near 24/7, to the extent that you probably forget about the cameras! He was talking to his QB, not the media!

[Carey]

Personally, I hate this talk by both teams.

Last time there was this much pre game chatter was last October, just before the Bengals came to town. We all know how well that turned out.

Ray got it in his head he was going to shut up Ochocinco and he and a few others committed some pretty dumb penalties as a result.

Exactly what i dont want, we know we are a better and more complete football team then them, they just have to play their game and go out and prove it.

[Stealthbirds80]

Even Billick said Rex should tone it down.

Billick!


:ww:

:laugh:


:rolling::rolling::rolling:


I love when people repeat a word or name in life as emphasis. Most notably from Chappelle show when speaking on the guilt of Michael Jackson on a sketch involving a court scene, Chappelle replies "He made thriller man.... thriller".

On topic though, I wasn't surprised that this is happening, Rex has been gameplanning for two years on this game in his mind. Time to deflate his balloon of an ego. The Jets should have pie or something at all his press conferences to distract him from actually having to talk. The whole press conference can be a one man eating contest that ends by him rolling around in his own filth.

[HoustonRaven]

He meant tapping their headsets -- which Rex gestured by tapping the side of his head.

He wasn't deliberately trying to evoke the wrestling analogy -- but even if he had been, so what? The man was talking to a player about a task he wanted him to perform, and used his memories of his time at Baltimore as a reference. Apparently, Ray and Ed didn't like calling plays so they gave up on it. "Tapping Out" sounds like a pretty apt -- and basically inoffensive -- analogy!

If I gave up on something, and someone said "you tapped out," I would not find that offensive.

Also, you're not "smack-talking" when you're being videotaped damn-near 24/7, to the extent that you probably forget about the cameras! He was talking to his QB, not the media!

I do not know which HK you're watching because it isn't the one on HBO.

Rex was clearly using the term "tapping out" as it's used in giving up in MMA. It had nothing to do with headsets or whatever it is you think. In MMA, the typical way of tapping out (when you can reach your head) is tapping the side of your head -- you typically see it when a fighter is giving up due to strikes.

As to the meaning behind those words, it's open to interpretation but to me it sounded like he was basically saying "Mark, you're smart. Ray and Ed are dumb. They were not smart enough to call plays. You are." Why do I think that? CONTEXT! He said it lumped in with mocking and laughing when mentioning Ray and Ed. Why else do I think that? Because just today, he was backing off those comments, giving Ray all kinds of props.

And do you really think Rex "forgot" he was on camera? Really? REALLY?

[Sua Sponte]

My understanding (and I haven't watched mre than 15 minutes of H.K.) was that Rex said Ray "tapped out". Now maybe the context is similar to what you are suggesting but the phrase "tap out" has a lot connotation.

Ray Lewis tapping out! Ray Lewis #52 on the Ravens, The Lion, The best MLB to ever play the game (still playing the game).

Rex must have had something in those cookies "Mary Jane Cookies" before giving that speak, The Lion never taps out.

I can see how he was trying to explain the situation but he could have chose his words a little wiser, that was an insult. I only know one kind of/one way to tap out and that is submit.
It probably was easier to let the D' coordinator do his job, they do have move time to evaulate the players on Offense and schemes from the side line.

[Beerracuda]

The Jets should have pie or something at all his press conferences to distract him from actually having to talk. The whole press conference can be a one man eating contest that ends by him rolling around in his own filth.

Bahahaha!!!! :roll: :roll: :beer1: Thanks for the laugh, Stealthbirds!!

[Sgt CouchPotato]

Anyone else still wish this fat blowhard was our head coach?

i would

[Dade]

:rolling::rolling::rolling:


I love when people repeat a word or name in life as emphasis. Most notably from Chappelle show when speaking on the guilt of Michael Jackson on a sketch involving a court scene, Chappelle replies "He made thriller man.... thriller".


That was one of the funniest sketches! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

As far as this whole mess. A Baltimore sports legend once said "Talk is cheap, let's go play."

[highwater]

Ryan may be mouthy but I remember many of the same people whining about it now also lauding Billick for doing literally the exact same thing during our Superbowl run.

Strongly disagree -- Billick could be very outspoken but not in the same pompous tone as Rex. Billick spoke his mind but he didn't beat his chest the way Rex does. It wasn't the same approach.

[Flipping Birdie]

Anyone who didn't see the episode should really try to avoid commenting on this. You have no idea what you're talking about, and you're only making yourself look like a stupid homer.



I was actually more specifically referring to all the bullshit from last year and the nonsense with Le'ron McClain from this week when McClain was asked about Revis returning and McClain saying it was great because there wouldn't be any excuses:

This I consider perfectly acceptable player smack talk. It isn't even smack talk, really.

Rex Ryan's response:

""I don't know what's wrong with Le'Ron," Ryan said. "He said something about there's no excuses ... He must have us confused with somebody else. I don't think we make any excuses. Last year, we didn't have our starting 11 guys on defense for a single game and yet we led the league."

:187734: You're a coach act like it. If Revis had said this I'd be fine with it. Nothing is wrong Le'Ron; he's just showing the proper confidence that a player should show? WTF did you want, Rex, for Le'Ron and the rest of the Ravens to be quaking in their boots and pissing themselves because to the AWESOME defense you put together? Never mind the fact that you are actually holding up your injuries as an excuse at to why you had a mediocre season and had to have Indianapolis roll over and play dead for you to even make a wild card appearance. No excuses my ass.

And don't get me started on Le'Ron being a bitch and backing down to Rex being a child. He bitched the whole team when he did that. Ray had to step up.

[BlackSunday]

Bahahaha!!!! :roll: :roll: :beer1: Thanks for the laugh, Stealthbirds!!

Concur - way to close out. You forgot only to put Rex in a thong at the presser.

BS

[Purpleguy]

Nobody should be comparing Billick to Uncle Buck. Billick was a class act. He dissed the Titans after we throttled them and the media considered them the best team in the NFL. He didn't do it before the game.

Billick was a class act. He was intelligent and could carry himself like a head coach. Uncle Buck is a fat slob that basically only understands the art of the blitz and the art of showing his ass when the cameras are on.

[psuasskicker]

Nonsense, the Vegas line bears out the hype the Jets have been getting. Lines are not set on who should win, they are set on how the betting is anticipated to go and then moved in response to the betting. It is paramutual wagering with a house edge built in via a premium charged to the loser.

Sorry, this isn't close to true for the vast majority of games. There are some situations where it is, but they are reserved for huge games involving one team that is an exceptionally heavy public favorite. Common example is the Patriots undefeated going into the Superbowl as > 2 TD favorites.

It doesn't apply to a week one game against two teams that have no strong public favoring. And don't say the Jets and their huge NY market do. They aren't one of those types of teams. Those types of teams are the Steelers, Cowboys, and then the teams that mid-season are romping everyone they face like the '07 Patriots and the '05 Colts.

The sharps will QUICKLY correct lines that open terribly off. Public will almost never throw so much money at a line week one in a season that it'll be significantly off...there's too much action across the board. And the line has moved in the Jets favor...it's not the public moving that line, it's the sharps saying two points isn't enough to give the Ravens.

That line isn't one that's off. And even if it is, it's not off by more than a point, and nowhere close to ten points like your thinking we should win by 8.


Personally, I hate this talk by both teams.

I absolutely, 100% agree. I'd much rather we'd have gone into this game having said nothing, and then thrown it in their face if we won.


Rex was clearly using the term "tapping out" as it's used in giving up in MMA. It had nothing to do with headsets or whatever it is you think. In MMA, the typical way of tapping out (when you can reach your head) is tapping the side of your head -- you typically see it when a fighter is giving up due to strikes.

As to the meaning behind those words, it's open to interpretation but to me it sounded like he was basically saying "Mark, you're smart. Ray and Ed are dumb. They were not smart enough to call plays. You are."

I absolutely, 100% disagree. I thought he was saying it in a fun, playful sort of way. I think he may have said it cause the cameras were there and maybe to get a rise out of Ed and Ray. But this came off as something anyone would say to try to buck up a guy who's nervous about being forced into a role in which he's completely uncomfortable. "Dude, don't sweat calling the plays...it's not easy. You're a second year guy still learning, and some of the best players in the history of the game have trouble doing it. You'll be fine."


Nobody should be comparing Billick to Uncle Buck. ... He dissed the Titans after we throttled them and the media considered them the best team in the NFL. He didn't do it before the game.

I'm not sure exactly why you aren't remembering what actually happened (http://www.esquire.com/the-side/football-column/titans-ravens-rivalry-010809)...


The two teams met a few weeks later in the playoffs. Tennessee may have been favored, but Baltimore spent the whole week talking trash. "They embodied their coach and we embodied ours," says Sharpe. "Jeff Fisher was a guy who didn't do much talking or bulletin board stuff. Brian Billick was a talker. And so were we. We knew we could do that, though, because we always backed it up."

Billick took that team into the stadium wearing camo and announced to the media basically that team was ready to go in hunting. He absolutely did to them everything Rex is doing with the rest of the league right now.

- C -

[Galen Sevinne]

Nobody should be comparing Billick to Uncle Buck. Billick was a class act. He dissed the Titans after we throttled them and the media considered them the best team in the NFL. He didn't do it before the game.

Billick was a class act. He was intelligent and could carry himself like a head coach. Uncle Buck is a fat slob that basically only understands the art of the blitz and the art of showing his ass when the cameras are on.

I'll say it again as I have said it is the past. You are Brian Billick. :laugh: It would be just like Brian Billick to sit on a meaningless message board and continue to pump his own image long after his glory has faded.

Rex Ryan is going in the exact footsteps of BB. The only difference is that Billick preferred to gloat about his IQ while Rex gloats about his Heart. The similarities are that their bark will always be worse than their bite.

[Purpleguy]

Billick didn't insult the Titans. He just prepared his team to go to war with a very tough team. It was actually a brilliant motivation tactict. Uncle Buck is just trash talking. All he is doing is putting a bullseye on his teams back.

I'm obviously not Billick, but I am a huge fan. His intelligence may have been his downfall. He was coaching in a city that had a bunch of hacks as sports journalists and talk show hosts. Guys like Preston, Burgundy, and Nestor are way out of Billick's league.

[psuasskicker]

Sorry dude, that's just purple shades talking. Billick and Rex have done the exact same talking prior to games. Both were brash and let everyone know they expected to win every week and feel free to stop us if you can.

I'm not saying Billick wasn't a class act. But I also don't think Rex is the classless piece of trash many here are making him out to be. And too many people here are too quick to forget that a couple years ago they were rooting for a guy that was doing the exact same thing Rex is doing right now.

- C -

[Green and White]

Nobody should be comparing Billick to Uncle Buck. Billick was a class act. He dissed the Titans after we throttled them and the media considered them the best team in the NFL. He didn't do it before the game.

Right, which showed that he was a gutless coward. It doesn't take any guts to dump on a team after you beat them; you're not risking anything. Talking before forces you to put something on the line.

[myfavoriteboxer]

Exactly. He did it last year with that guy from the Dolphins (Channing Crowder I think), and then he flipped off a group of Miami fans. What kind of NFL coach acts like this?

Can anyone picture Harbs talking smack about say, Troy Polamalu to the media before a Ravens/Steelers game? Neither can I.

But hey, Rex is fun and boisterous so it's ok.

I'll admit though, I thoroughly enjoyed when Rex did this to (guess who?) T.J. Housh... after we beat them at home in our first matchup in '06. TJ was whining post-game about how they had better players than ours, and Rex kept hitting back. Uh, too bad we lost to them in the second matchup. Although depending on who you ask, that was NFL network's fault.

[darb72]

Can we ban the troll now?

Anyway, to intelligent football conversation;

Purpleguy, Billick's downfall was a complete inability to produce anything closely resembling a NFL offense or develop a QB. It wasn't his attitude or intelligence.

[Green and White]

Can we ban the troll now?

You can't make a credible argument against my point of view, so it's probably your only option.


Purpleguy, Billick's downfall was a complete inability to produce anything closely resembling a NFL offense or develop a QB. It wasn't his attitude or intelligence.

Billick was the only "offensive guru" who knew nothing about offense. He rode Randy Moss, Cris Carter, and Robert Smith to a good offensive season, so people thought he was a genius.

[Galen Sevinne]

Can we ban the troll now?

Anyway, to intelligent football conversation;

Purpleguy, Billick's downfall was a complete inability to produce anything closely resembling a NFL offense or develop a QB. It wasn't his attitude or intelligence.

also Billick couldn't adapt...what worked so well in 2000, and there is no doubt that Billick should be given full credit for all of the moves that led to SB35, stopped working shortly thereafter and BB didn't have the flexibility to make changes. His message was predictable and lacked impact. Players thought he was a joke. The same thing will happen with Rex. Its interesting to see Harbaugh and his approach. Billick was unable to produce in the high expectancy seasons. Harbaugh faces a huge task this year. Go to the playoffs 3 years in a row and actually accomplish the greatness that is being predicted. 2 things Billlick was unable to do. We'll see a lot about Harbs this year....as well as Rex.

[Galen Sevinne]

You can't make a credible argument against my point of view, so it's probably your only option.



Billick was the only "offensive guru" who knew nothing about offense. He rode Randy Moss, Cris Carter, and Robert Smith to a good offensive season, so people thought he was a genius.

would have to agree with this. because billick touted his computer...his fat playbook and frankly, himself there was this premise he was a football genius. his greatest offensive move as a head coach was starting Dilfer. no sure if that is genius???

[APerfect10]

The sharps will QUICKLY correct lines that open terribly off. Public will almost never throw so much money at a line week one in a season that it'll be significantly off...there's too much action across the board. And the line has moved in the Jets favor...it's not the public moving that line, it's the sharps saying two points isn't enough to give the Ravens.

You are wrong. The line opened at -3 and is currently -2 to -2.5.

Covers - Line History (http://www.covers.com/sports/odds/linehistory.aspx?sport=NFL&eventid=27805)

-Derek

[RockGod]

Sorry, this isn't close to true for the vast majority of games. There are some situations where it is, but they are reserved for huge games involving one team that is an exceptionally heavy public favorite. Common example is the Patriots undefeated going into the Superbowl as > 2 TD favorites.

It doesn't apply to a week one game against two teams that have no strong public favoring. And don't say the Jets and their huge NY market do. They aren't one of those types of teams. Those types of teams are the Steelers, Cowboys, and then the teams that mid-season are romping everyone they face like the '07 Patriots and the '05 Colts.

The sharps will QUICKLY correct lines that open terribly off. Public will almost never throw so much money at a line week one in a season that it'll be significantly off...there's too much action across the board. And the line has moved in the Jets favor...it's not the public moving that line, it's the sharps saying two points isn't enough to give the Ravens.

That line isn't one that's off. And even if it is, it's not off by more than a point, and nowhere close to ten points like your thinking we should win by 8.



Actually the line has nothing to do with either team except for maybe setting the initial line, after that the line is changed based on how much money is placed on either team.

For Example; if the line opens at 3 for the Ravens and a majority of the money is bet on the Ravens they will adjust the line to entice people to bet on the Jets. So the Jets could go from giving 3 points to getting 3 points or giving 7 points based on how the money is played not how much better one team is over the other except for the initial line. They could also stop accepting bets on the game because they can't get people to bet one way or the other if it gets to the point they could lose money.

It's all about making money and nothing to do with who's the better team, hype, injuries etc.

[RockGod]

would have to agree with this. because billick touted his computer...his fat playbook and frankly, himself there was this premise he was a football genius. his greatest offensive move as a head coach was starting Dilfer. no sure if that is genius???

I'm tired of people bringing up Billick 3 years after the fact but if you’re going to do it at least get your facts straight. I know facts mean nothing to your kind of people but everything you noted in this post Billick never said about himself and in many cases is on record as saying he didn't like people saying it. Your mind is so small that you think everything Mike Preston writes in his high school equivalent fish wrap is factual.

I think there's an actual 24x7 rule that says something about not posting stories that aren't factually true...

[Galen Sevinne]

I'm tired of people bringing up Billick 3 years after the fact but if you’re going to do it at least get your facts straight. I know facts mean nothing to your kind of people but everything you noted in this post Billick never said about himself and in many cases is on record as saying he didn't like people saying it. Your mind is so small that you think everything Mike Preston writes in his high school equivalent fish wrap is factual.

I think there's an actual 24x7 rule that says something about not posting stories that aren't factually true...

Huh? Was it Spicoli that said" people on Qualudes shouldn't post"

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Greg]

You can't make a credible argument against my point of view, so it's probably your only option.



Billick was the only "offensive guru" who knew nothing about offense. He rode Randy Moss, Cris Carter, and Robert Smith to a good offensive season, so people thought he was a genius.

Billick took a loser franchise and turned it into a winner. Whatever one thinks of his coaching abilities he is an excellent leader of men.

[Greg]

You can't make a credible argument against my point of view, so it's probably your only option.



Billick was the only "offensive guru" who knew nothing about offense. He rode Randy Moss, Cris Carter, and Robert Smith to a good offensive season, so people thought he was a genius.


Right, which showed that he was a gutless coward. It doesn't take any guts to dump on a team after you beat them; you're not risking anything. Talking before forces you to put something on the line.

You just don't know what you are talking about. Billick didn't dump on the Titans. I dare you to find where Billick ever dumped on any other team or player despite some slow-witted nimrods (present company excluded :thumbup:) continually dumping on him.

What Billick said after the Ravens beat them in the regular season was the Sports Illustrated called them the best team in the NFL and that maybe they were, but not that day. He was right. And he did not insult or dump on the Titans. He noted the accomplishment of his team beating a very good football team.

[RavenScallywag]

not to mention his "point of view" was that because ray was accused of murder, obviously he's going to hurt/assault/injure/kill people.

Because as we all know, being accused of a crime means you MUST be guilty.

[Dan The Man]

I think if you try and disect what Ray was saying, it boils down to enough with all the talk. Its time to get on the field and see what happens. Games are not won with the mouth, the media, or the hype.

Im tired of hearing this is gonna be our biggest test, we are going against the best defense in the league, Sanchez is a bum, its now up to Flacco, our defense is just as good, our secondary is suspect, our offensive line is beat up.

What I am getting at is this is 2010. Its not 2009. I dont care what happened last year, none of that matters. We dont know that the Jets will have the same success on D. or that their running game will be as effective. We dont know that all the additions to our team will suddenly put us in the elite status.

The best thing that could happen to this team is pulling out a win after a long, hard fought, and brutal game. This will tell us what lies beneath. Blowing out the Jets would be great but having a gut check will go a lot further in building a positive to start the season.

There has been an equal amount of hype coming from the media and fans for each of these teams. What makes my head shake with pity is the fact that Rex comes across like he is the one actually playing this game. I am so proud to have a first class head coach that doesnt find it necessary to run his mouth.

Smack talk should be left up to the fans. That is what makes being a fan of a specific team so much fun. If the players choose to smack talk they are just giving fuel to the other team. I think they should keep their mouth shut and play the game. Coaches should coach and if they choose to run their mouth to pump their team up, fine, just keep it out of the media.

Lets get it on Ravens. Get off to a great start and I just hope that we can watch or hear Rex eat his words. :taz:

[pyite32]

i think if you try and disect what ray was saying, it boils down to enough with all the talk. Its time to get on the field and see what happens. Games are not won with the mouth, the media, or the hype.

Im tired of hearing this is gonna be our biggest test, we are going against the best defense in the league, sanchez is a bum, its now up to flacco, our defense is just as good, our secondary is suspect, our offensive line is beat up.

What i am getting at is this is 2010. Its not 2009. I dont care what happened last year, none of that matters. We dont know that the jets will have the same success on d. Or that their running game will be as effective. We dont know that all the additions to our team will suddenly put us in the elite status.

The best thing that could happen to this team is pulling out a win after a long, hard fought, and brutal game. This will tell us what lies beneath. Blowing out the jets would be great but having a gut check will go a lot further in building a positive to start the season.

There has been an equal amount of hype coming from the media and fans for each of these teams. What makes my head shake with pity is the fact that rex comes across like he is the one actually playing this game. I am so proud to have a first class head coach that doesnt find it necessary to run his mouth.

Smack talk should be left up to the fans. That is what makes being a fan of a specific team so much fun. If the players choose to smack talk they are just giving fuel to the other team. I think they should keep their mouth shut and play the game. Coaches should coach and if they choose to run their mouth to pump their team up, fine, just keep it out of the media.

Lets get it on ravens. Get off to a great start and i just hope that we can watch or hear rex eat his words. :taz:

this! +1

[ravenwoman]

It is abundantly clear why the owner hired John Harbaugh over Rex Ryan. They knew all along what a blowhard this guy was. He knows football, but he is a blowhard. Steve B. wanted someone with class, not crass.

I hope the Ravens win 40-10. Then I will go to nypost.com and read to my heart's content.

[psuasskicker]

You are wrong. The line opened at -3 and is currently -2 to -2.5.

Covers - Line History (http://www.covers.com/sports/odds/linehistory.aspx?sport=NFL&eventid=27805)

Good catch, missed the open at 3. Still, it's not squares moving that line. And all the -3 open means is that Vegas thinks the two teams are even.


Actually the line has nothing to do with either team except for maybe setting the initial line, after that the line is changed based on how much money is placed on either team.

I know how lines move. The problem is, two things move the line.

1) Ridiculous popularity. Sorry, not the situation here. Even if it is, the fact alone that it started farther on the Jets and moved in our favor actually proves my point further, that this isn't a line set simply for popularity.

2) Sharps move the line cause it's off. Yes, this is due to how good the teams actually are pretty much every time. It's also the vast majority of every line move.

Either way, a line move from 3 to 2.5 or even 2 isn't a very big move, and not at all indicative of a game that's line was set due to emotion vs. how good the teams are.

- C -

[highwater]

Billick didn't dump on the Titans. I dare you to find where Billick ever dumped on any other team or player despite some slow-witted nimrods (present company excluded :thumbup:) continually dumping on him.

Thank you, I totally agree. It was actually the Titans that dumped on Billick with that pre-game video on the big screen that mocked him. And after that, I thought he took the high road -- I don't remember him saying much about it, except to say that he was sure Jeff Fisher had nothing to do with it.

A lot of his big talk was to his team, not the media. Rex acts like he just wants attention.

[psuasskicker]

Sorry, where was it that Rex has dumped on another team?

- C -

[myfavoriteboxer]

Well Billick did call the person who put his regular season post-game talk to his players on the TN jumbotron before the playoff game "an idiot." And then after we destroyed their Super Bowl dreams there was this moment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6QKhpxLcHU)...

"**** the Titans!"

[Dan The Man]

Billick also made some type of mention about being careful what you say about the Ravens and Ray in particular. He said this is one man you do not want to fuel. Of course this is out of context but the results remain the same.
Ray takes his football serious. More so than any other player in the entire league. I for one am glad to see that extra fire in Rays eyes. You can believe he will have himself and every other player on this team playing above and beyond their skill level. Rex not only wrote a check that his team wont be able to cash but he also wrote a check directly to Ray with an unlimited amount to be collected.

The jets will be bringing that chaotic rush attack, fine, there are multiple ways to counter what will be thrown at them. Like I said before,, I expect a long, hard faught, and brutal game. This will set the stage for the remaining season.

God forbid we lose this one, but if we do, it will only humble a great bunch of football players. I pity the bengals if this were to happen.:taz:

[Greg]

Good catch, missed the open at 3. Still, it's not squares moving that line. And all the -3 open means is that Vegas thinks the two teams are even.

No, it does not. It means Vegas thinks a Jets -3 line would get them equal betting on either side. They missed it because more people jumped on the Ravens at +3 than the Jets at -3 so they moved the line.

The lines set in Vegas have nothing to do with their estimation of how good the teams are and are completely predicated on what they think will get 50/50 action.

The line moved because more people were betting on the Ravens at -3 and -2.5.

[Losac]

No, it does not. It means Vegas thinks a Jets -3 line would get them equal betting on either side. They missed it because more people jumped on the Ravens at +3 than the Jets at -3 so they moved the line.

The lines set in Vegas have nothing to do with their estimation of how good the teams are and are completely predicated on what they think will get 50/50 action.

The line moved because more people were betting on the Ravens at -3 and -2.5.

Thank you Greg. So sick of hearing people think the Vegas spreads mean anything more than a way to get money bet as evenly as possible on both teams. And that stupid myth of "home team automatically gets 3 points so -3 for the Jets means we are just as good". :grbac:

[psuasskicker]

No, it does not. It means Vegas thinks a Jets -3 line would get them equal betting on either side. They missed it because more people jumped on the Ravens at +3 than the Jets at -3 so they moved the line.

The lines set in Vegas have nothing to do with their estimation of how good the teams are and are completely predicated on what they think will get 50/50 action.

The line moved because more people were betting on the Ravens at -3 and -2.5.

It's still a complete fallacy to think that the line isn't at least a close representation of how the game will actually play out. Like, laughably so.

Yeah, 50/50 money is the optimal line. But acting like the Vegas line could be set at Jets -3 when in reality the true line according to how good the teams actually are would be more like Jets +3 or hell, even being Jet's even money, is literally a joke.

Let's just pretend for a minute that the real line based on skill is Jets +3, and the Vegas line gets set at Jets -3. Public money would never, EVER come close to landing in the amount of what the sharp bettors would throw onto it. It's not that there are as many sharps ready to jump on a line off that much compared to what side the public would take.

It's the fact that Joe Public would say "Jets -3??? They're gonna be HOOOOOOJ!!! This game is LOXXX$$$ I GOTTA GETS MAH MONIE$$$$4$$$44$ DOWN ON DAT, BEOTCHEZ!!!"

Then they throw down their $20. Or their $50. Or every once in a while they would go really, really big and throw down a hundie.

And then Joe Sharp would say "Jets -3? LOL...Ravens are the better team even on Jets turf. I've gotta get my money down on that one."

Then they throw down twenty grand, covering 400-500 Joe Publics.

Take a look here at Vegas betting limits on the NFL (http://www.casinogaming.com/bettinginfo/sportsbetting/sportsbook.html). Scrap the bush league casinos. Not one of the real deal casinos have less than a $10k betting max on NFL sides. Three of them allow $100k in action.

There are plenty of sharps out there. A lot of them are casual gamblers that do sports betting as an extra source of income, don't do it seriously, but will still throw down a $1k to $5k bet on a seriously off line. A lot of them are professionals with hundreds of thousands in their bankroll, and will bet significant portions of that bankroll on a line as ridiculously off as that.

The best part is, you can actually back-test lines and their overall accuracy if you want to. A three point spread is basically a statement that the favored team will win about 60%. If you go back and look historically at 3 point favs, that will be true.

- C -

[psuasskicker]

Thank you Greg. So sick of hearing people think the Vegas spreads mean anything more than a way to get money bet as evenly as possible on both teams. And that stupid myth of "home team automatically gets 3 points so -3 for the Jets means we are just as good". :grbac:

You have literally no idea what you are talking about. Seriously. None.

- C -

[psuasskicker]

BTW, for you to back-test lines and historic win rates (convert lines to MLs, which is standard across the board) if you really want, here are all open/close lines with the final scores.

http://www.sbrforum.com/scores/NFL%20Odds/20080907.aspx

[HoustonRaven]

I wouldn't be that hard on Greg or Losac.

The root of the line starts at who is the better team. The line is then determined from there to get the most action.

So both Greg and PSU ate correct. The line is decided on where the the action is but it's also a decent indicator on teams prowess since Vegas has pretty good insiders.

[psuasskicker]

I don't dispute that the line could be shaded one way to get action. The problem is, barring huge games like the Superbowl they will NEVER be shaded in one direction in order to get even action any more than maybe a point. There's simply WAY too much sharp money that would simply abuse a line that far off. The difference between -3 and -2 is pretty big. It's 60% to win vs. 55% to win the game (game lines are actually set based on the % one team has to win). A player that knows one team is 60% to win, but that Vegas is paying $100 on a $120 bet will crush a line like that.

Imagine the more extreme case that I gave before. You know for a fact the Ravens are 60% to win this game. But Vegas has given you odds that say they'll pay $150 for every $100 you bet. That's $50 in EV for every $100 you put down...a truly ridiculous 50% return on your money. You're telling me you wouldn't put tons and tons and tons of money on this?

Lines will simply never be even CLOSE to this far off.

- C -

[Greg]

I wouldn't be that hard on Greg or Losac.

The root of the line starts at who is the better team. The line is then determined from there to get the most action.

So both Greg and PSU ate correct. The line is decided on where the the action is but it's also a decent indicator on teams prowess since Vegas has pretty good insiders.

Sorry, but the root of the line and the whole goal of those who create the lines is to get 50/50 betting.

Indeed, how good the teams are does play a role, but not in setting the line but in the perception of the bettors and what the line makers believe the bettors are thinking.

The line maker's job is to get 50/50 betting, not predict outcomes. They judge the perception of the bettors, those who know what they are doing and those who are betting their favorite team, and set the line as best they can accordingly.

If they thought the Ravens were going to win by 10 points but knew setting the Jets at -3 would get 50/50 betting what do they do? They DO NOT set the Jets at +10 because if the Jets cover they get murdered. They set it at Jets -3 and make out either way.

If you think it works otherwise you are nuts.

And no, I don't believe line setters think the Ravens will win by 10, it was an extreme example to make a point.

[JimZipCode]

My understanding (and I haven't watched mre than 15 minutes of H.K.) was that Rex said Ray "tapped out". Now maybe the context is similar to what you are suggesting but the phrase "tap out" has a lot connotation.
Rex did say "tapped out", but the motion he mimed was slapping the side of their helmet, as if that was their signal to get a new play call in or something.

DVGN is describing it correctly, the tone of it was to imply that calling plays is hard. It sounded to me like Rex was coaching his guy Sanchez to take the challenge seriously, and telling him a story (possibly a lie) that would motivate him to try to exceed what those guys did. Just good coaching, really. A challenge and an achievable goal wrapped up in a funny story.

The reaction to it was way, way overblown.

[psuasskicker]

Sorry, but the root of the line and the whole goal of those who create the lines is to get 50/50 betting.

Indeed, how good the teams are does play a role, but not in setting the line but in the perception of the bettors and what the line makers believe the bettors are thinking.

The line maker's job is to get 50/50 betting, not predict outcomes. They judge the perception of the bettors, those who know what they are doing and those who are betting their favorite team, and set the line as best they can accordingly.

If they thought the Ravens were going to win by 10 points but knew setting the Jets at -3 would get 50/50 betting what do they do? They DO NOT set the Jets at +10 because if the Jets cover they get murdered. They set it at Jets -3 and make out either way.

If you think it works otherwise you are nuts.

And no, I don't believe line setters think the Ravens will win by 10, it was an extreme example to make a point.

The problem with this example is that if the true line of the game were this far off, there is no chance on this planet that the Ravens side would not get pounded into oblivion. Every sharp on the planet would be max-betting it, and there's absolutely, positively no way that public money - coming in at an average rate of 1% or less of every sharp bet - would be capable of covering it.

Vegas will determine what the fair line is based on how good the two teams are. Then, if they believe that public money will come in heavily on one side they may shade the line very slightly in one direction. But those shades are typically reserved for huge games involving heavy public favorite teams. They aren't reserved for week one of the regular season. And even when they happen, they're maybe a point, two or three if it's a two-TD favorite on some side (i.e. Pats -17 in the SB instead of -15).

It's fine to say that Vegas sets the line where they think 50/50 action will come in on it. First, that's not exactly true in all cases (google "reverse line moves" as a good example). But in most cases it is. The problem is, the action will equalize at the spot where the two teams are truly at in terms of skill. The sharp money is so unbelievably heavy on lines that are off that the line will auto-correct itself when it is off.

Like I said earlier... If you could bet $100 to win $150, and this bet had a 60% chance for you to win, how much money would you put on this? I have a relatively small betting bankroll...couple grand. Situation like that, I'm probably putting nothing less than $500 on it, probably a grand. Every bettor that recognizes a line like this will bet every dollar they possibly can without risking ruin.

Lines not representative of actual team skills cannot hold.

- C -

[psuasskicker]

Here's an article (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/05/magazine/05sbgamble_92_94_.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin) that discusses this concept of shading lines a bit more. Note that Vegas doesn't want 50/50 action if it can set a bad line that the public will still heavily bet on the wrong side. But...
a) it still starts with setting the correct line, and
b) the lines will never get set significantly to one side outside the skill levels of the teams.

The lines are almost always a very close representation of the two teams' skill and likelihood to win the game. In a regular season game, you're simply never going to see one team come in at -3 when they should in reality be +3...public betting will never cover such a spread.

- C -


By Esposito's estimate, about 20 percent of the money bet on football comes from sophisticated bettors — the "sharp guys" — with the remainder coming from a group known industrywide as the squares. The trick is to set a line that will satisfy both constituencies and make the casino lots of money.

Unfortunately, Esposito couldn't open up his books to show us just how this plays out at Caesars. (Transparency has its limits.) But a different set of data, taken from a handicapping contest run by the online casino CaribSports.com, can address the same issue. In these data, 285 bettors made more than 20,000 wagers on N.F.L. games. What do these data show?

The 285 bettors exhibited the typical preferences mentioned above — a strong bias toward favorites and a weaker one toward visiting teams. The bookmaker, meanwhile, didn't merely acknowledge these biases and balance the book down the middle; it appears that the bookmaker strategically set point spreads to exploit these biases.

How does this work? Let's say that a bookmaker is handicapping a game between the Broncos and the Pittsburgh Steelers. He first studies every conceivable element of the game: strengths and weaknesses, momentum, injuries, tendencies, weather forecast, etc. He then decides that the true line — that is, a line that he figures will give each team a 50 percent chance of winning the bet — happens to be Denver minus 7 points. But because of bettor bias, perhaps as much as 80 percent of the money will inevitably flow to the favorite. So what if the bookie sets the line a little higher, at 9 points? Denver is still likely to draw the majority of the wagering, but its chances of winning the bet are now slightly less than 50 percent. The bookie has thus managed to tempt the majority of the wagering toward an outcome that is unlikely, even if only slightly, to happen. Over time, this pattern will yield the bookie a gross profit margin 20 to 30 percent higher than if he had simply balanced the wagering. In other words, why should a bookie play for the safe 10 percent vig when he can play it only slightly less safe and make much more money?

Chuck Esposito, though he is too smart to come out and say so, seems to be doing precisely the same thing at Caesars. What he will admit is that he doesn't mind if the wagering on a given game comes in at 80-20 instead of 50-50, as long as he thinks that Caesars is on the right side of the imbalance.

[HoustonRaven]

i would

Still want Rex as our head coach?

[psuasskicker]

Losing one very close game because your quarterback sucks doesn't make him a bad coach.

- C -

[darb72]

I would've bet the under.:thumbup: