Red Zone Play calling

[Fanman]

I thought the play calling, esp in the RZ, was really poor and timid.

Two big things I notice:

1. Most teams in the redzone throw to the middle of the field. We throw to the sidelines and the margin of error is very slim. The one time we threw to the middle...we scored on the lob to Heap.

2. Most teams tend to run outside the tackles...esp inside the 5-10 yardlines. The Ravens usually try to blast it up the middle. And Musa is fast enough to get outside and turn the corner.

I really think this philosophy is hurting our TD conversion chances in the redzone. If we want to stay in the hunt for the playoffs the redzone scoring MUST improve in a big way.

Thoughts?

FM

[Ravenflash]

I don't think the Ravens work "laterally" enough. You're right they don't run to the outside enough. Now, if that is a result of poor O-line play or linemen that are athletic enough to pull, I don't know. North-South run plays, between the tackles, is their MO. Not to mention that the Ravens don't use their backs in the passing game as much as they should.

The same applies to the passing game. Too many times the pass plays are North-South. They don't take advantage of slants, drags and in/out routes enough. Passing North-South requires the ball to travel over the defender to get to the receiver, giving the defender a play on the ball. When you work the field laterally the defender is now trailing behind the receiver going across the field.

[Fanman]

Flash,

I think we are both saying the same things...just in different ways. I agree w/ everything you said. Our offense is still predictable and not efficient in the redzone. Where is the play-action...even some motion by the WRs?

Jamal should be in there every single time if for nothing more as a decoy to freeze the LBS.

I think Fassel needs to start expanding the playbook and being more aggressive.

They can't count on the defense setting them up all day vs a good team.

FM

[Mobtown]

I thought the play calling, esp in the RZ, was really poor and timid.

Two big things I notice:

1. Most teams in the redzone throw to the middle of the field. We throw to the sidelines and the margin of error is very slim. The one time we threw to the middle...we scored on the lob to Heap.

2. Most teams tend to run outside the tackles...esp inside the 5-10 yardlines. The Ravens usually try to blast it up the middle. And Musa is fast enough to get outside and turn the corner.

I really think this philosophy is hurting our TD conversion chances in the redzone. If we want to stay in the hunt for the playoffs the redzone scoring MUST improve in a big way.

Thoughts?

FM

I tend to agree about running outside the tackles more often. We have the speed to get to the sidelines, why don't we use it more?

However, Musa did just fine blasting it in yesterday and would have had a score if not for our loser C getting steam-rolled by Sapp.

[Ravenflash]

I tend to agree about running outside the tackles more often. We have the speed to get to the sidelines, why don't we use it more?

However, Musa did just fine blasting it in yesterday and would have had a score if not for our loser C getting steam-rolled by Sapp.


The Ravens have been very successful running up the middle. After all, wasn't most of Jamal's 295 up the middle? The thing is that the odds are against you when you do run up the middle. In a standard 4-3 defensive formation there is a DE, DT, LB, CB and S on each half of the field and and MLB queued straight up on the C/QB/RB. Running up the middle gives every defensive player a shot at the play. Running laterally/to the outside puts half of the defensive out of a converging attack mode to a chase mode.

[Fanman]

And running up the middle hasn't been working too well this year yet...maybe it will later. But down on the goalline I think running outside more often will give better results. At least a fake pitch and some misdirection...but behind center time after time is just not working.

FM

[Mobtown]

After all, wasn't most of Jamal's 295 up the middle?

We are talking about goaline offense, which we have traditionally been terrible at. To be honest, you cant use the 295 game as a gauge for anything...it was an exception, not the rule.

[F Angelos]

Everytime we run outside we get called with holding. This still goes back to our mindset which is don't take risks when you have a defense this good. Until the mindset changes the results will stay the same. As for throwing outside I couldn't agree more, 1 of them was thrown perfectly but the Corner got inside position on Moore and broke it up. Clarence has to do a better job of using his size to get that position. Of course he might go over the middle with bravery before he does that!

[Ravenflash]

We are talking about goaline offense, which we have traditionally been terrible at. To be honest, you cant use the 295 game as a gauge for anything...it was an exception, not the rule.


To be fair, I wasn't really comparing anything to the 295 game. Just saying that the Ravens/Jamal have had success running up the middle in the past.

[Mobtown]

To be fair, I wasn't really comparing anything to the 295 game. Just saying that the Ravens/Jamal have had success running up the middle in the past.

My bad then. I read your statement to say that because we have had success running up the middle (example being the 295yrd game) that we should have the same success in a goal line situation.

[Fanman]

FAngelos said:
Everytime we run outside we get called with holding. This still goes back to our mindset which is don't take risks when you have a defense this good

Why is running outside taking a risk? If that's how Fassel feels he should be replaced tomorrow. A simple pitch OT right or left to the wide side of the field I think could be better than behind Flynn inside the 5 yrd line. Maybe not every time...but sometimes...esp when the box is stacked w/ 8-9 guys.

And if you choose to run up the middle then bring in 3-4 WRS and spread the defense...it's not rocket science. West Virginia did it to MD all night long last week. Look at what ATL did to Tampa Bay...they ran for over 300 yards.

FM

FM

[StingerNLG]

Everytime we run outside we get called with holding.

And usually holding happens when you get blown up often. It all goes back to our lack of athleticism on the OL.

[italianjoker]

I thought the play calling, esp in the RZ, was really poor and timid.

Two big things I notice:

1. Most teams in the redzone throw to the middle of the field. We throw to the sidelines and the margin of error is very slim. The one time we threw to the middle...we scored on the lob to Heap.

not sure i can agree. while i do think our redzone playcalling sucks, in the game yesterday we only threw down the middle in the redzone. to the point that we threw a ball to Moore which carried out of the endzone and then lined back up and threw the same pass to Heap. also, incomplete and out of bounds. it was ridiculous. there was no reason Moore should not have been sent to a corner with the ball thrown up and Moore goes up to get it. (and props to Moore. they are using him for all he is good for and he is trying and showing up this year.) there is also no reason that on a short yardage play like that they do not run Heap into the flat direct from the snap. hit him in stride and he can fall forward for the couple yards it would take.

all in all, i thought McNair held the ball too long on most occassions in the redzone. most noteably when he took the sack from Sapp. there was no reason for him to take that sack. Heap was the only guy on the right side for him to throw to and Heap had 3 guys around him. McNair just tried to keep the ball up and throw it, instead of just tucking and outrunning Sapp to the corner. he is a vet and he will not do that often i am sure, but he took a hit from a fatass he did not have to take. just made me feel like Baltimore is the problem. this is where QB's come to die.

[Fanman]

I have to disagree w/ you IJ. I watch a lot of NFL games and highlights and I consistently see different play calling in the redzone around the league. More outside runs and more inside passes.

The jump ball play to Moore fails more than works...I hate it.

FM

[AZRAVEN]

I have to say I find our offense to still be fairly ineffective and way to vanilla. I had hoped that would change with the arrival of McNair but apparently not. I hate any play that involves no guts Moore!

[FHRaven]

I thought the play calling, esp in the RZ, was really poor and timid.

Two big things I notice:

1. Most teams in the redzone throw to the middle of the field. We throw to the sidelines and the margin of error is very slim. The one time we threw to the middle...we scored on the lob to Heap.

2. Most teams tend to run outside the tackles...esp inside the 5-10 yardlines. The Ravens usually try to blast it up the middle. And Musa is fast enough to get outside and turn the corner.

I really think this philosophy is hurting our TD conversion chances in the redzone. If we want to stay in the hunt for the playoffs the redzone scoring MUST improve in a big way.

Thoughts?

FM

I think the play calling is limited by the lack of talent on the OL.

It's hard to thrown down the middle when Flynn is letting pressure up the middle.

FHRaven

[Raveninwoodlawn]

We can't run teh ball anymore when teams stack the box.

Add that to the fact that our passing game turns into jump balls, and you have a bad red zone offense

[Greg]

We don't play-action nearly enough, especially in the red zone and ON FIRST DOWN!

Just once I want to see us play-action and then have McNair roll to one side or the other with one receiver dragging in the front of the end zone on that side and another in the back and behind as a second option.

[italianjoker]

We don't play-action nearly enough, especially in the red zone and ON FIRST DOWN!

Just once I want to see us play-action and then have McNair roll to one side or the other with one receiver dragging in the front of the end zone on that side and another in the back and behind as a second option.

Greg, i said the same thing to my brother during the game. it gets very old. hell, teams blitz on 1st all the time due to the fact that they know we are just going to run.


I have to disagree w/ you IJ. I watch a lot of NFL games and highlights and I consistently see different play calling in the redzone around the league. More outside runs and more inside passes.

The jump ball play to Moore fails more than works...I hate it.


i must defer to your judgement then. i only see Ravens' games and have no other football background then that. :grbac:

i am not saying the jumpball to moore should be the end all and be all of this offense, i am saying that if they insist on running it, do it right. they need to use the entire field. not just between the hash marks.

[Fanman]

I saw in one of Tony's articles and the Ravens ran Jamal on 1st down 13 times...talk about predictable.

Where is the motion, the play action, the quick slants, the screen pass?

And why doesn't McNair audible to a pass play when he sees 8-9 in the box? This is football 101!!!!

FM

[FHRaven]

And if you choose to run up the middle then bring in 3-4 WRS and spread the defense...it's not rocket science. West Virginia did it to MD all night long last week. Look at what ATL did to Tampa Bay...they ran for over 300 yards.

FM

I've been looking for the spread offense "run" play for years. Apparently that sector of Billick's hard drive has crashed.

FHRaven