Last year and this year

[section516]

On the drive home Sunday the airwaves were filled with discussion about why this team is better than last year. I didn't agree with all of it....here's my take.

1. Momentum/Quick start (both in the games and the season)- We needed to start fast and we did. The fact is that the team's mental state last year was defined by the outcomes of the first couple of games. Are the Bucs a bad team or did we ruin them similarly to the way the Colts ruined us?

2. Stellar defensive play against scheduled opponents - Our defense has played better than last year so far. Granted we haven't faced the league's elite offenses but this early, confidence building, fear instilling success we've had will help us during our challenges that are around the corner.

3. Better discipline - A few slips yes, but overall we have played with more discipline. The continued discipline will be critical for over the next three weeks. We will play a desperate team this Sunday and we can't let their frustration take us out of our game.

4. Better run game - Last year our run offense was miserable. This year we are making nice holes for our three fine tailbacks. Given the leads we've had this is even more impressive as I expect teams are expecting the run.

5. Chemistry - With a passing game that is no better than last years the team is rallying together due to successes in the other areas. This is important and should help hold the fort down until our passing game improves (which it must). Winning when our game is "off"...thats what champions do.

6. Health - A bit early to judge, but last year by the second half of our first game we were playing our second string qb. If that happens at some point this year, we'll be no worse than last year before losing our starter.

7. Coaching - Mr Billick seems less stubborn with the way he's distributing the ball on running plays and not trying to will Clarence Moore to be Randy Moss.

Those are my observations...all were possible with our staff of last year except maybe the level of dominance on D as I see Pryce and Ngata as upgrades. I think the bottom line is we are playing a lot closer to our potential than last year.

[FadeToBlack]

I think the answer is 2 words:

Steve.

McNair.

Even though his last game resembled a typical Boller performance, I think the team is really thriving off the energy that they have a veteran quarterback that can take them to the Super Bowl. I think that same confidence was absent when Boller and Wright were at the helm.

Indirectly, Steve McNair is the reason the Ravens have played as good as they have, even on defense. Yes, defense.

[Mista T]

I think the answer is 2 words:

Steve.

McNair.

If so, then why does the offense look so mediocre? In particular: the overall passing game and the Red Zone bewilderment. Maybe he will come along, but, thus far, our offense isn't performing at a level to beat the good teams.

The only reason we are 2-0 is the smothering & opportunistic Defense. Perhaps the best Defense in the NFL.

I can't get it down to two words, but let's start with:


Ngata
Pryce
healthy Ray Lewis and Ed Reed


:mrt:

[section516]

FTB...I'll respectively disagree. Thus part of the point of my thread. At some point your statement may prove true but at present if McNair was added to the list I offered he would have to be at the bottom. Its popular right now....I hear the talk, but frankly our QB play has been the one aspect most similar to last year.

What are your thoughts on the other items I listed?

[FadeToBlack]

Well, skimming through the list, you listed a TON of things. Frankly, I don't think all of those things just improved on their own. IMO, it took one big thing to happen in order to open the flood gates for all that other stuff to happen. And that one big thing was bringing in Steve McNair to a team - especially to a defense - that needed to believe we had the necessary players to win a Super Bowl. I truly believe the offense is the single biggest contributing factor to why our defense has fallen off in recent years. My theory is they just got tired of carrying the load and just collapsed under the weight of the pressure. Every week they were asked to win the game and un-screw up everything our offense screwed up. Now with McNair, the PERCEPTION is our offense not only won't screw up, but they'll win games. That gives the defense a huge shot in the arm, psychologically.

As for your take on the running game, our rushing numbers aren't all that impressive right now. Jamal hasn't even cracked 80 yards yet, has he?

[section516]

FTB - I can only hope that you are wrong. I've heard other folks suggest such. If that is the case the character on our team is an embarrassment especially since they are still carrying the team.

We'll have plenty of opportunity to give McNair credit for something this year. I choose not to dilute the significance of his future accomplishments by giving him credit where none is yet due.

My main observation is that if our D played like this last year we would have had a winning season with the combined AW/KB performance of last year.

[FadeToBlack]

To embellish more on my post above, I think that when the Ravens play great like they are now, we as fans tend to notice all these little areas of improvement (coaching, discipline, etc.) which really are BYPRODUCTS of maybe one or two key improvements. Ultimately, none of those factors are causes, they are effects.

I honestly don't see this team as being any different than the team last year or the year before except for the fact their ATTITUDE has changed immensely. And when I scan my brain for the reasons why this ATTITUDE has changed, I believe it comes from the front office going out of its way to get a proven winner at what is probably the most important position in the NFL.

So I don't believe all these little things just got better on their own. I believe it all stems from a change in attitude, and regardless of how McNair has played thus far, I feel the team internally perceives him as a much needed addition to the team in order to compete for a Super Bowl.

[ExiledRaven]

the difference basically boils down to one thing

Attitude.

Right, people need to be healthy and guys like Landry and Ngata make a difference...but what stands out between this year and last year is the attitude of the team, the community, and the determination

[FadeToBlack]

My main observation is that if our D played like this last year we would have had a winning season with the combined AW/KB performance of last year.

And I would counter that by saying the defense would never play this well if KB or AW were still our quarterbacks.

I think the Ravens defense has been asked to carry more weight than any other defense in pro football, maybe any other defense in the game's HISTORY. For a team to break the NFL record for points allowed in a season where the offense goes an entire month without scoring is just insane.

So this defense has had to carry weight that the '02 Bucs didn't have to carry, that the '05 Steelers defense never had to carry, and so on. That weight starts to get heavier the longer it goes, and I feel the past 2 years it became too heavy for Ray, especially without the help up front he was used to getting from Adams/Goose.

Ray himself, and the defense as a collective, needed to know the offense was going to share some of this weight.

[section516]

Again FTB, I only hope you are wrong. I hope the character on the team is better than that. Pretty darn pathetic if true...the D has carried weight in proportion to the portion of the salary cap they've carried.

I think its more that the schedule was favorable for us to get off to a fast start and build momentum early.

[Rochardrik]

Again FTB, I only hope you are wrong. I hope the character on the team is better than that. Pretty darn pathetic if true...the D has carried weight in proportion to the portion of the salary cap they've carried.

I think its more that the schedule was favorable for us to get off to a fast start and build momentum early.
I disagree w/ the observation that the team attitude being better speaks poorly of the team's character. They endured ineptitude for quite some time, and all the fan 's bashing... They needed SOMETHING to pick up their spirits, and the signing of McNair has obviously done that! To impugn the collective character of the team as a result, is simply being short-sighted! (IMHO):p

[edreedisgod20]

Turnover differential.

[MrPoeJangles]

I believe the signing of Steve McNair helped tremendously with the chemistry of the team. It gave the team an air of hope. However there appear to be several other reasons.

1) This is the second year under Ryan's scheme. I heard Bilick saying they underesimated the learning curve with the system and the players are now comfortable with it.

2) The contract status of Ed Reed and Jamal Lewis have cleared up.

3) I saw mention of some other additions to the defense, but the other huge additions are Bart Scott starting next to Lewis instead of replacing him, and Dwan Landry playing like an enforcer.

4) The change in Brian Billick.

5) Chris McAllister's new focus.

It appears all of these things have not only helped with the play on the field but in the locker room.

[RavensNTerps]

remember last year we played some crappy teams early...titans, jets, browns...didn't win convincigly like we are this year.

[PurpleRulz]

Some criticize that we are only 2-0, because we beat two puff teams. To those persons and anyone else that finds fault in a 2-0 start, please find happiness. Geez!

1. We beat a team that most folks around here had us losing to in the Bucs. We had no idea of how bad the Bucs were. Not many folks expected us to just run over the Bucs.

2. We beat two teams we were supposed to beat. That is what good/great teams are supposed to do. Last year, we were losing to teams that we should have beaten (Titans, Lions, etc). A team can't help its schedule. To make criticism for a 2-0 record is ludicrous.

3. We scored 28 points week one and 26 points week two. If we had of scored that many points last year to start the season, we could have started last year 3-0. Remember how scoring points was a major problem last year? Our offense is disjointed right now, yet we have averaged 27 points these first two games.

And please do not start with that "take CMAC's TD away and..." crap. You can't take away any scores or plays from a game. Our defense is the higest scoring defense over the past three seasons, and now it has an offense that is scoring points, while it is still adjusting.

Is McNair lighting up the sky? No, because he has not been here long. Besides, did anyone expect us to become the Bengals, Eagles, or Colts and throw the ball 45 times per game? That's not going to happen. We are going to run to set up the throw.

Anyhow, folks, just CHILLAX! Enjoy being 2-0 and possibly 3-0. We are beating who we are supposed to beat and that makes this a much improved team over the last two seasons.

[section516]

I'm thrilled at the fast start. I do find it frustrating that the credit gets misplaced.

[section516]

Tex Ritter - Let me start by saying that I truly feel that at the end of the year I am convinced that we'll all be able to look back and recognize Mr McNair's contribution to the team.

At some point during the year it will be clear that our passing game will have improved over last year.

At the risk of being discredited before my thought is fully articulated I'll say that I agree with Brian Billick's comments after the (I think) the Tampa Bay game...suggesting that if Kyle Boller had a similar game there would have been a lot of commentary about it.

So in answer to where my frustration to the public's reaction to our performance is directed...I'll say its towards some fans and a lot of media.

I think a lot of what has been said in terms of the offense being more efficient will prove true at some point. But help me out for a sec in regards to what has transpired so far...lets take a look at last year at this point. Boller came out against the Colts on fire...only to see drives stalled due to penalties and scoring opportunities because Stover decided to miss a years worth of kicks for him in one game.

Against the Titans the defense had read too many of Rex Ryans press clippings and had expected the opposition to lay down for them. It quickly became a theme for the 2005 season. You could almost hear their expressions of bewilderment..."Wait, don't they know we are the Ravens using this great 46 defense, why aren't they laying down?" Then came the implosion at Detroit. One might make a case that some of the trouble was furstration at a lackluster offense. On the surface it makes sense. But the old adage proves true...the QB gets too much blame for failures and too much credit for success. So if the frustration was at a lackluster offense...where the frustration was directed within the offense was misplaced. At least based on what we've seen so far. I think that Mr McNair will be personally responsible for two more wins than last season. We've seen neither of those wins yet.

Sometimes whether in politics, rumors, sports, or whatever a concept gets repeated so often that it is accepted as fact without scrutiny. My observation is that is happening a little with all the credit that McNair has gotten from the media. I can't remember which outlet...but one of the Power Rankings had a comment beside it that betrayed that the author didn't even watch the game/highlights.

I am hopeful that McNair will be able to maintain composure playing with poor pass protection. Offhand I can't think of many examples of players who have. Lack of composure is something that unfortunately may be learned.

In a two game span...the only improvement I see on offense is the run game. I defer judgement on turnovers.

Bottom line, I've given this more billing that is warranted given our quick start. In my mind I'm asking for objectivity in how we evaluate our QBs in Baltimore...thus one day we might be patient enough to let one develop instead of labeling the same performance as last year an upgrade. As poor as McNair's passing game has been this year...its better than it was in McNair's third year. That should give us all hope that the flashes of brillaince we saw from Boller at the end of last year may have been the beginning of his maturation.

[highwater]

Last year was the first year for both Ryan as defensive coordinator and Fassel as offensive coordinator. I know Fassel had been around the previous season but he wasn't the coordinator, as he was last year. I think the players are more comfortable with the coordinators and the schemes.

I also think the attitude of the team is much better, for a variety of reasons. McNair's arrival is part of it, the contract extensions of key players are a part of it, and whoever got into Ray's head and changed his attitude is part of it.

And of course, having a healthy Ray Lewis and Ed Reed is a big, big factor. The defense has been awesome these first two games.

[Purpleguy]

516, I agree with you concerning fans giving a QB time to develop. The trick is making sure you have one worth the time. I do believe Boller is worth the time, but the team really screwed him in the process. For one you don't start a rookie QB when you have a playoff caliper team. Bilick really had no choice since his only other option was Chris Redman, who was hardly a vet Kyle could learn from. Boller did outplay him that preseason. That was the time to bring in a Kerry Collins.

Secondly it is impossible to develop any QB behind a shitty line. Which is what we've had since 2000. A line like ours will destroy a QBs confidence and instill the fear of God on every snap. There is one line worse than ours, and that is Houston's. Look at how poorly David Carr has developed.

Thirdly, when you combine the shitty line with POS receivers for the first two years of a QBs development, then you are asking for failure. You are basically gauranteeing that the only play the QB will have success with is the hand of to the running back. When guys can't catch or get seperation you are going to rack up the INTs. It's inevitable that a QB will force a ball when everyone is covered all the time.

I like Boller and think he has tons of potential. The FO royally fucked up in his development process. After this two year window closes I think Boller should be the starter. I also think we should begin our rebuilding in the trenches, and I think we may need a new GM to do it.

[GreenWave52]

The difference is Ben is instinctive when the pocket breaks down and looks up field to try and make a play. Boller tends to tuck the ball and run (sometimes right into a defender).

It is sad that we were excited when we saw Kyle sidestep for maybe the first time this preseason and declared it a sign of growth. Ben has been comfortably sidestepping since his first start.

And the real difference is that we were the only team that from 02-06 expected the D to not only stop people from scoring but also score themselves. Without the pressure of having to not screw up AND make plays to put up points they are playing more loose and as a unit. That and NGATA.

[Purpleguy]

I completely disagree that our line pass protects better than the Steelers. I think the Steelers line is one of the best in the league, and I think that is a huge reason for their success. I don't even think Roth is that great of a QB, although he does have a nice ability to move in the pocket. He has a great line, and a perrenial pro-bowler in Ward to throw to. He has also always had a fantastic running game. He didn't have that last Monday, and look what happened.

In week one we saw Charlie Batch, who is far from a world beater, step into that position and perform pretty damn well. That shows that the Steeler system relies on more than just the QB.

[section516]

Ben's pass protection was among the worst in the league last year regarding sacks/attempt. I posted an analysis early in the offseason showing the breakdown.

That said, Ben has been efficient but not a playmaker. His high passer rating is certainly an exception among young QB's. Using him as an example of what to expect from a young QB is probably not fair to any young QB. Regardless, Ben as with all QB's would play better with improved protection.

I dare say that McNair is a better QB than Ben...and he needs protection.

If Kyle continues to develop as I expect he will, he will be more of the Brett Farve mold...high highs and low lows. He tries to do things with his athleticism that many QBs don't.

I've gotten off the point of the thread a little...regarding this year vs last...

Right now....is Landry better than Demps?

[Ravens0587]

Right now....is Landry better than Demps?

YES!!!

[GreenWave52]

Right now....is Landry better than Demps?
I'm waiting until we play the Bengals to answer that question. So far....looking good.

[Fanman]

3 quick takes.

1. I agree the Steelers O-line is far better than Ravens...has been for years

2. I doubt anyone will say this phrase any time this year: "Man, I sure miss Will Demps".

3. The redzone TD conversion % is actually down from last year thru 2 games.
2005: 2/4 = 50%
2006: 3/9 = 33%

FM

[Losac]

3. The redzone TD conversion % is actually down from last year thru 2 games.
2005: 2/4 = 50%
2006: 3/9 = 33%

FM

Isn't it a plus that we've actually been in the red zone 5 more times thru 2 games this year than last year?

[Fanman]

losac,

Yes it is a plus the redzone chances have increased...but unless the TD % goes up as well the team won't go very far. You can't beat good teams on FG alone...we proved that for the last 3 years.

FM

[skimmy]

If so, then why does the offense look so mediocre? In particular: the overall passing game and the Red Zone bewilderment. Maybe he will come along, but, thus far, our offense isn't performing at a level to beat the good

I don't care about yardage stats and made up things like QB rating. What matters to me is turnover differential and points scored vs. points allowed in judging the team. The offensive part of the equation is preventing turnovers and scoring points. So far, the offense isn't giving up turnovers and whether they are 2% or 50% in the red zone they're still putting up a good amount of points.

Check out this info from the preview of the Ravens vs. Chiefs game in 2003. Turnovers mean so much to this team's success:
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2004/09/28/just_like_2003_turnovers_the_rushing_game__special_teams_are_keys_vs_the_ravens/

Since Brian Billick took over the helm of the Ravens in ‘99, Baltimore is 40-2 (.952) when owning a positive turnover mark, including a streak of 33 consecutive wins. The Ravens haven’t lost a regular season contest when owning a positive turnover mark since losing 10-3 at WAS (10/15/00) when Baltimore was +1 (2 takes/1 give). Conversely, the Ravens are 1-29 (.033) when owning a negative turnover ratio since ‘99, including a string of 17 consecutive losses. Baltimore’s only win with a negative turnover margin since ‘99 was a 24-21 victory at JAX (11/25/01) when the club was -2 (0 takes/2 gives). The Ravens are 8-3 (.727) with an even turnover mark under Billick. Remarkably, Baltimore is a whopping +82 (151 takes/69 gives) in its 49 regular victories and -63 (36 takes/99 gives) in its 34 regular losses dating back to the start of the ‘99 campaign.

Check this info about scoring and turnover diff:
2006 (so far)
27.5 points a game.
3 points allowed a game.
+8 turnover ratio

2005
16.6 points scired a game.
18.6 points allowed a game.
-10 turnover ratio

2003 Last time the Ravens made the playoffs with a statistically terrible offense:
24.4 points scored a game
17.5 points allowed a game
+3 turnover ratio

2001
18.9 points scored a game
16.5 points allowed a game
can't find the turnover ratio

2000
20.8 points scored a game
16.5 points allowed a game
+23 turnover ratio

[Art-Florida]

Wow, just goes to show you how important turnovers are. (I love the apple ones) We are 40-2 in games when we win the turnover battle? That figure is more than just impressive, it is astounding!

Let's hope the coaches can convey this importance to the players. No holding the ball like you are walking out of McDonalds with a bag of 1/4 pounders. Being alert for chances to slap it out of a running back or wideout's hand. Being alert to what is around you at all times, etc.

[sailorsam]

I'm amazed that Ben Spellcheck gets sacked more than Boller. I guess he gets better protection, and is more likely to stay in the pocket and take the sack, rather than run or throw a pick; Boller seems so used to getting pressured that he automatically runs as the pocket collapses. I'd rather take the sack than throw a pick. whatever else you say about the Ravens O, they've only turned it over once so far.
at this point I'm not very impressed with McNair; either he still isn't 'comfortable', or maybe his arm hurts. or maybe the line still stinks.
Looks like the D is definitely better. maybe less pressured to make plays, having confidence in McN & the O to get some points. maybe some of the guys who departed (Deion?) were bad in the locker room. Ngata is definitely an upgrade, and BScott is terrif. Landry seems to make more plays than Demps.

[section516]

Maybe last year, but if you want I can post the career sacks per passing attempt of Ben versus Boller and Ben gets sacked more times per attempt. Ergo proving that he does not seem to get better pass protection than Boller. Factor into it that he is harder to physically bring down and it just shows that blaming lack of pass protection primarily on Boller's faulty development is untrue. That's all I am saying here and will post on it no more on this thread unless anyone questions the career stats.

Read my post again carefully; I'm agreeing that Ben was sacked more per attempt. Respectfully, I'll disagree that Ben's success suggests that Bollers problems aren't at least partly related to poor pass protection.

[StingerNLG]

Pass protection isn't, and has never in the history of Football been measured on sacks alone. That's why when you see a QB's stats on the screen during a game they also measure things like "Hurried", "Hit", and "Pressured".

Simply using sacks as a way to measure pass protection then to somehow suggest that the Ravens pass protection is better than the Steelers is extremely flawed and actually pretty much untrue anyway.

Really, all you have to do is watch the games and you can see the difference.

[StingerNLG]

Ummmm, he's only been in 2 games so far, I would expect that he'd have fewer sacks and picks than Boller or Wright. So that also is not only flawed thinking, but considering McNair threw double digit interceptions in every 15 or 16 week season as a Titan doesn't mean he won't throw as many this year either.


However, in watching the games it appears that one reason Ben gets sacked more often than Boller is he probably throws fewer dumb passes hence his lower interception total. Instead, Ben takes the sack.

Right, you mean like in the SuperBowl when he threw 2 picks for a 34.1 rating, or last week against the Jaguars when he threw 2 picks for a 38.7 rating? The only difference in the two performances was he didn't have a running game to back him up like he did having Bettis last year. It's going to be interesting to see how Big Ben does without a running game this year.

Again, it's all about watching the games.

[StingerNLG]

Well, I could have added the couple of playoff games in his rookie year that his defense bailed him out of too, but I felt his last two games were good enough.


Their best runner is still playing only they are only missing the short yardage and endzone specialist in Bettis.

All teams need a 3rd down back. That's why we have Musa. Here's an interesting stat. There were no running first downs last Sunday for the Steelers. The Jaguars effectively shut the Steeler's running game down. And that's all you're going to have to do to put the Steelers' backs to the wall every week.

You put Ben behind our O-line, or the Raiders line, or the Houston Texans line, and then tell me he wins a SuperBowl or 15 games total with those teams.

[StingerNLG]

So, how about 3 games in a row? Does that count? The Steelers lost again, and Big Ben threw a pick in the endzone on the last play, which BTW was his 3rd pick of the day.

Today's line: 18/39 208 yards, 0TD/3INT. QB Rating: 30.7

So let's count it up. 2 games, 0 touchdowns, 5 interceptions. QB Rating of 34.3 That is clutch.