Camp Competition

[sailorsam]

The Ravens bring back a fairly set, loaded team. At which positions do we see competition this year?
Right Guard: K Vincent vs B Grubbs
backup QB: K Boller vs T Smith
Kick Returner: BJ Sams vs Y Figurs
any more?

[RavenScallywag]

QB, I would say it's more Troy Smith vs Drew Olson. Highly unlikely Smith would be able to play at Boller's level yet.

FB, Justin Green vs Le'Ron McClain

OLB - Jarrett Johnson vs Dan Cody. Some people will say that Dan Cody is more of an end, but we were originally trying to hone him towards OLB, so I'll put him here. Haven't seen Cody pan out yet, this is his year to step it up.

[ExiledRaven]

Center: Flynn v. Chester
#3 QB: Smith v. Olson v. Finnerty
FB: Green v. McClain
#3 & #4 CB: Pittman v. Ogelsby v. Prude v. Ivy v. Martin
#4 WR: Figurs v. Darling v. Moore
Pass-rushing specialist: Cody v. Barnes

[Dont Know]

backup QB: K Boller vs T Smith


I think you are wrong about that. Putting T Smith near at or even ahead of Kyle Boller at this stage is wishful thinking on your part.

To me, starting positions up for grabs:

OLB: J Johnson vs D Cody vs A Barnes
Kick Returner: BJ Sams vs Y Figurs vs C Ross
Kick Off: S Koch vs M Stover vs B Carney vs J Wilhoit
Nickel Back: C Ivy vs D Pittman vs R Prude vs E Oglesby

And the most interesting battle for depth:
3rd/4th QB: T Smith vs D Olson vs C Finnerty

[festivus]

What's our depth chart at safety?

My guess is, Ivey will return as nickel back. Pittman and Prude will be on the roster and hopefully will be ready to go when we need them. But Ivey was nickel last year (right?) and was serviceable there.

[ExiledRaven]

Sapp is still on the team and while primarily a special teamer can backup.

Festivus, I'm not sure of the source and don't have time to look it up, but I heard D. Martin was switching to Safety from Corner. Anyone else remember that?

As for starting positions up for grabs, don't you all think that Chester and Flynn will battle? Or are you all just assuming either Chester will take over or Billick's Boy Flynn will be center until his arms fall off (plural, he would have to lose both arms.)

[RavensInBrazil]

I think there's actually a bigger competition between McNair and Boller than Boller and Smith...not that McNair won't start, barring injury, but there's just no way that Troy Smith is the #2 QB, especially given the success Boller has had coming off the bench for us

[festivus]

Festivus, I'm not sure of the source and don't have time to look it up, but I heard D. Martin was switching to Safety from Corner. Anyone else remember that?

As for starting positions up for grabs, don't you all think that Chester and Flynn will battle? Or are you all just assuming either Chester will take over or Billick's Boy Flynn will be center until his arms fall off (plural, he would have to lose both arms.)

ER, that would solve two problems at once if Martin can handle occasional safety duty. Wrapping up the 4th safety spot and removing one of the several competitors for the last cb spot, too.

I would really like to see Chester play this year. It was painful to watch Rabach leave and I fear the same future for Chester. . .

[UKRavenStockers]

Festivus, I'm not sure of the source and don't have time to look it up, but I heard D. Martin was switching to Safety from Corner. Anyone else remember that?

Yep, I remember reading that somewhere as well.

[PurpleRulz]

QB, I would say it's more Troy Smith vs Drew Olson. Highly unlikely Smith would be able to play at Boller's level yet.

Okay, now that I have finished laughing for the past five minutes, all Troy Smith has to do is not stumble over his own feet nor panic after every snap and he'd be better than Boller.

That said, you are correct in that the "competition" will be between Olson and Smith, though that won't be much of a competition either. The only way Troy Smith does not make this team is if he comes in to camp drunk and high at the same time.

Also, the only way we carry 3 QBs is if/when Troy Smith makes the team. If Smith does not make it (and he will), we will only carry two QBs.

[festivus]

Okay, now that I have finished laughing for the past five minutes, all Troy Smith has to do is not stumble over his own feet nor panic after every snap and he'd be better than Boller.

:grbac:

Boller is effective as a second string quarterback. Haters may not like it, and some "huggers" may want to see him start, but the fact is, that's his role, and he was perfectly effective in it last year.

While I hope *all* our draft choices are future hall of famers, Troy Smith isn't anything, yet.

Also like most NFL teams we have almost always carried 3 quarterbacks. At times last year we didn't but that's the rare exception, not the rule.

[Mista T]

Okay, now that I have finished laughing for the past five minutes, all Troy Smith has to do is not stumble over his own feet nor panic after every snap and he'd be better than Boller.

Once you finish laughing about stumbling, please remind us of how many Ravens #3 QBs who have progressed to become the starting QB. And, of that number, how many were 6-footers?:laugh:




That said, you are correct in that the "competition" will be between Olson and Smith, though that won't be much of a competition either. The only way Troy Smith does not make this team is if he comes in to camp drunk and high at the same time.


Troy Smith will make the team if he beats out both Olsen and Finnerty. That's why the team holds training camp.

Notwithstanding all the local man-love that is being shown for Smith, realistically, there is a higher likelihood of Smith ultimately starting in the CFL than here.



If Smith does not make it (and he will), we will only carry two QBs.

Wrong again. 2006 was the only season in Ravens history where the #3 QB was not carried. That won't happen again, at least this year. Because McNair is old and injury prone, and Boller is in the final year of his contract, the Ravens cannot afford to have the potential #2 QB for 2008 as a sitting duck on the taxi squad. Whether it's Finnerty, Olsen, or Smith, the #3 QB will be on the roster.

[Dont Know]

As for starting positions up for grabs, don't you all think that Chester and Flynn will battle? Or are you all just assuming either Chester will take over or Billick's Boy Flynn will be center until his arms fall off (plural, he would have to lose both arms.)

I don't think Flynn has to battle for his position in training camp, much. Once the season starts and the line progresses, hopefully, but not until then.

The only way Flynn doesn't make opening day is injury or Grubbs not starting. I just can't see Billick going with 3 rookies (Terry at RT, Grubbs and Chester at C) at the same time.

[Miz89]

Troy won't win the 2nd string, but he'll easily win the 3rd string. No doubt in my mind.

[Greg]

The only way Flynn doesn't make opening day is injury or Grubbs not starting. I just can't see Billick going with 3 rookies (Terry at RT, Grubbs and Chester at C) at the same time.
I might agree, but Terry and Chester aren't rookies. Chester got enough time in last year to prove himself and I think Flynn is going to have to step up to hold him off. Chester will be your starter by December at the latest, JMHO.

[LBoogy]

Wow, PR is now pimping Troy Smith? Whatever happened there? You were singing the same tune for MONTHS--"Just say no to Troy Smith...Troy is too small.." etc. etc.

Now Smith is going to knock Kyle Boller off the roster? Yeah, OK. I want to see Troy succeed as much as anyone (and I recall arguing with PR about how HEIGHT is not as big of a deal as it is made out to be), but let's be realistic here.

The REAL battles I see are:
Chester vs. Flynn (sadly, I think Flynn wins)
Olsen vs. Smith (I think Smith wins)
Sams vs. Figurs (I think they split time or Figurs wins)
Figurs vs. Darling/Moore (Figurs wins)
The HUGE CB battle between Martin, Pittman, Ivy, Ogelsby, and Prude (who the hell knows what will happen here)
McClain vs. Green (McClain wins)

On a side note, I'd love to see Dan Cody pan out and contribute this season.

[Dont Know]

I might agree, but Terry and Chester aren't rookies.

Ok, rookies was a poor choice of words ... perhaps, unproven then at the intended position, better reflects what I was trying to say.

[Fanman]

I expect to see McClain win the FB spot as well. I have never been impressed w/ Green.

FM

[festivus]

Chester vs. Flynn (sadly, I think Flynn wins)
Olsen vs. Smith (I think Smith wins)
Sams vs. Figurs (I think they split time or Figurs wins)
Figurs vs. Darling/Moore (Figurs wins)
The HUGE CB battle between Martin, Pittman, Ivy, Ogelsby, and Prude (who the hell knows what will happen here)
McClain vs. Green (McClain wins)

On a side note, I'd love to see Dan Cody pan out and contribute this season.

Center: Agree
3d QB: Agree
KR/PR: Split time, one on each
4th WR: Agree - saving a roster spot for Sams
DB: Ivy staying at nickel, Pittman moving to safety, then who knows
FB: Agree
Cody: Absolutely. He'll get his chances.

[jonboy79]

Center: Flynn, yielding to Chester by midseason.
3d QB: Smith all the way... or Finnerty at worst, definately NOT Olsen, he is hot garbage.
KR/PR: Split time, Sams primary on punts, yasmon on kicks.
4th WR: Figurs and Darling, no more Moore.
DB: Pittman at Nickel, Ivy at Dime, then Prude and Ogelsby, with Martin as the 4th safety.
FB: McClain, from day 1.
Cody: Absolutely. Pass rush specialist.

[festivus]

DB: Pittman at Nickel, Ivy at Dime, then Prude and Ogelsby, with Martin as the 4th safety.

Aack! Martin, I meant Martin at safety.

Are nickel and dime backs the only really wide open spots heading into camp?

It seems to me there is a favorite heading into each of the other positions. . .

[sailorsam]

good point, T. I hope we can keep T Smith and Finnerty, but I don't think they can afford to go into the season with 2 rookie qbs. maybe they can do like Gibbs used to do and put one on PUP or something? and I think the Brain Trust is looking for the starter for 09 and beyond. smart teams have replacements in place before they're needed.

Wrong again. 2006 was the only season in Ravens history where the #3 QB was not carried. That won't happen again, at least this year. Because McNair is old and injury prone, and Boller is in the final year of his contract, the Ravens cannot afford to have the potential #2 QB for 2008 as a sitting duck on the taxi squad. Whether it's Finnerty, Olsen, or Smith, the #3 QB will be on the roster.[/QUOTE]

[akacrow]

2007 ravens QBs, #1 McNair, #2 Boller, #3 Smith, #4 Finnerty(practice squad)

IMO, Finnerty has more upside and will be a better back up then Olson...

[RavensNTerps]

The roster is almost 100% set, guaranteed.

There's no real competition.

At the end of the day, Grubbs is starting at guard. The only possible competition MIGHT be flynn and chester.

Troy Smith has NO chance to be #2 unless McNair or Boller get hurt. Maybe his only chance is if BOTH get hurt, he'll back up Vinny Testaverde or whoever the hell we bring in.

As for CBs...no matter how many people don't like Rolle (unfairly, I might add), he and McAlister start, with Ivy at nickel and Sapp at Dime, with Prude seeing some snaps. Nothing changes.

[akacrow]

The roster is almost 100% set, guaranteed.

There's no real competition.

At the end of the day, Grubbs is starting at guard. The only possible competition MIGHT be flynn and chester.

Troy Smith has NO chance to be #2 unless McNair or Boller get hurt. Maybe his only chance is if BOTH get hurt, he'll back up Vinny Testaverde or whoever the hell we bring in.

As for CBs...no matter how many people don't like Rolle (unfairly, I might add), he and McAlister start, with Ivy at nickel and Sapp at Dime, with Prude seeing some snaps. Nothing changes.


IMO the WR corp...M.Clayton #1, D. Mason #2, D. Will #3.

[Filmstudy]

Nice thread.

By position, I would say the battles are:

QB: Smith vs. Olsen for 3rd
RB: Musa vs. Anderson for backup
FB: Mcclain vs. Green
WR: 4th spot between Moore and Figurs. This is sort of an intersting battle because neither Darling nor Moore makes a special teams contribution, but Bannister does. Despite his failures to date, Moore's height causes matchup problems, and he should certainly make the team over Darling. I would expect if Figurs shows much of anything in camp, Moore will not often be active this season.
C/G: Chester, Flynn, Vincent, Grubbs. Vincent may have been playing hurt last season, but I'd see Grubbs and Brown as the starting guards. I am guessing (but not liking the fact that) Flynn will againstart at center. Does anyone know if the Ravens employ a "line QB" system like the Colts? If so, I would not be surprised if Flynn is overcredited for last season's very low sack total.
T: Yanda vs. Rimpf for swingman. Yanda has an enormous edge with this being his first season as opposed to Rimpf's 3rd, but Brian has better size and 7 career starts. I think both make the team if the Ravens have the fortitude to cut Vincent or Flynn.

P/K/LS are setbarring injury
KR: Figurs wins over Sams. The combination of potential and character issues will be too much for the Ravens to ignore.

DT: Set
DE/OLB: Barnes vs. Cody. Cody has actually looked very good in 15 career plays, but if he can't stay on the field, Barnes will get his snaps this year.
ILB: Mike Smith/Dennis Haley for backup. Smith has 1 less year remaining under contract.
CB: Starters are not changing at this point.
Nickel: Ivy was one of the best nickels in the league last season and won't lose his job. I would guess the Ravens will not have room for all the corners on special teams this season, so at least 1 of Pittman, Prude, Oglesby, Martin will probably be released.
S: I like Sapp as a special teamer, and the Ravens used a combination of him and Prude as the 5th DB when Ivy was out. Those same 2 each played some as the 6th DB. I don't see him losing his backup job even if Martin moves to safety.

[B-more Ravor]

I would agree with most about what the battles are - OC, OG, KR, etc.

Regarding the reserve CB battle, I really don't see a battle at Nickel, in that Ivy was very good last year. As such, it's more about which of the young CBs is the top reserve at CB and at NB. Last year, they used Prude pretty much exclusively at NB when Ivy was hurt, and when Ivy returned, Prude didn't play much. Ogelsby was the top reserve at CB when either Rolle or McAlister was out. There was some talk that Prude was best suited for the NB role given his size and his abilities to play in crowds whereas the others were better suited to play outside.

That would leave Oglesby and Pittman fighting it out for the top reserve at CB (like others, I expect Martin to work mostly as the 4th Safety). I'm sure the team would like Pittman to show why they drafted him where they did and take control of that top reserve CB spot.

Regardless, I see all of them again making the team - w/ Martin as the 4th S (unless someone else beats them out). That would mean they would carry 10 DBs, which is pretty common these days.