Justin Bannan 9/24/06

[Filmstudy]

OK, a little setup here...I posted on YBR about the wisdom the Ravens have shown in making talent evaluations on players at an early enough point that they could both:
1: Harvest value from their first 5 years
2: Determine if those players would be valuable franchise cornerstones thereafter
See "Franchise Management" if you like.

In one of the great off-topic discussions of all time, the post degenerated into a debate about the value of Justin Bannan. I proposed we could all watch a game that was representative of his season statistically, and each post our subjective comments. Based on the yardage differential with and withut him in, the 9/24 Cleveland game and the 10/9 Denver game were both fairly representative. Someone else said they had the Cleveland game recorded, so I watched that one.

BTW, I'm not putting down the discussion in any way...it's where the really fun arguments originate. I'm posting my analysis here with a plea that we could have a "player of the week" analysis this fall where we each watch the plays for a single player and submit our play-by-play thoughts to a single thread.

Anyway, you're caught up now. Let me know what you think of the POTW idea.

Justin Bannan 9/24/06
I rewatched the Cleveland game, and very oddly, I had not correctly tagged a play where not only was Bannan in the game, but he made a nice tackle (see below). Occasionally, the camera will zoom in tightly on the QB's helmet or come back from a graphic after the ball is snapped. It's usually not difficult to figure out the defensive players, but Justin got lost in a crowd, and his number was never really visible. I watched the rest of the game to make sure there was not another instance, but this was it. Anyway, I've corrected the error and added it to the spreadsheet. The game totals for Bannan were thus 5.8 YPPA on 12 plays.

Here are the 12 plays as I saw them:

Q1 1/10 Clv 14 0:27
Lined up at RDE. He was double teamed in the midst of a 5-man rush which got no pressure. Pass went L and complete to Winslow for 11 yards.

Q2 1/10 Clv 13 15:00
After Winslow's taunting penalty set the Browns back, Bannan lined up at LDE. He was Singled up on the RT (Tucker), but got no pressure (nor did the rest of the 4-man rush). The pass was complete R to Edwards who danced along the sidelines for 12 yards.

Q2 1/10 Clv 25 14:34
Lined up at RDE and was undercut to his knees by LT Shaffer. Bannan's knees fell on the back of Shaffer, and he got up and pursued to the pile, which was a run middle for 3 yards.

Q2 2/7 Clv 28 13:58
Lined up at RDE. The 5-man rush got no real pressure as Bannan was chipped from LG to LT. The pass-off created a nice throwing lane for Frye to complete to Northcutt who raced upfield for 27 yards.

Q2 1/10 Clv 26 3:41
Lined up at LDE. In Bannan's best play of the game, he worked off the block from RG and slipped into the hole to take down Wright for a 1-yard gain. Very nice play.

Q2 2/9 Clv 27 2:59
LDE. 5-man rush failed to get to Frye, and Bannan was easily handled MTM by the RT. The pass was complete for 8 yards to Edwards.

Q2 3/1 Clv 35 2:35
LDT. This was the wierd play where for "production quality" the CBS crew felt a tight zoom on Frye's helmet would provide the perfect establishing shot. I missed Bannan originally, but have corrected as I mentioned above. He made a nice play while being blocked by the FB and the RG (I think, might have been RT), he reached out and tripped up Wright for a 2-yard gain. Enough for the 1st down, unfortunately, but a nice play for Justin.

Q2 1/Goal Bal 1 0:29
Following McAlister's end zone PI, lined up directy over center in a jumbo set that included Ngata, Gregg, and Franklin as well. Bannan submarined and was pinned to the ground by the center as Frye dropped back to pass, then ran the draw straight past the prostrate Bannan for the TD.

Q4 1/10 Clv 20 14:56
LDE. 5-man rush got good pressure on Frye, who threw incomplete short right intended for Edwards. Bannan was handled easily, but absorbed a double-team from RG, RT.

Q4 2/10 Clv 20 14:53
RDT. Bannan was single teamed and pancaked by the LT. However, pressure on the defensive left side was good and Suggs hurried Frye to an incomplete.

Q4 1/10 Bal 34 7:42
RDT. Wright ran off LG. Bannan slipped part way off a block from LT and stuck his hand out, slowing down Wright. Lewis and Gregg made the tackle after a gain of 3.

Q4 2/7 Bal 31 7:01
LDT. Bannan was doubled by RT and RG. Thomas and Scott lined up left of Bannan and benefited from that double, flushing Frye out of the pocket and forcing an incomplete.

Overall:
The good: Bannan showed versatility, lining up all along the defensive front, and always with a hand in the dirt. He played hard, and did not give up on any play. He played the run very well, as the stats would have indicated (5 Browns rushes for 10 yards with him in, 19 for 38 overall). He contributed 2 nice tackles personally, and this was his best game of the year for YPC (he was under 3 several other times, most notably 2.9 YPC on 19 SD rushes). The game lacked the single turnover or tackle for a loss required to be rated a 10, and I'd mark him down for being blocked to the ground twice on those 5 plays, but I'd say he rated a solid 8 vs. the run for this game.

The bad: Bannan was blocked to his knees or the ground on 3 plays among the 12 defensive snaps. He was wholly ineffective in his personal pass rush, with contributions limited to absorbing doubles. He had no decent push, and he made no attempt to get his arms up and deflect a pass. To set the stage a little better, the Ravens decimated the Browns for 7 sacks on just 27 pass plays without Bannan in and went 0 for 7 with him in. On the 7 plays with Bannan in, the Ravens rushed 5 men 5 separate times. The Browns had 58 yards on 7 plays (8.3 YPP) with him in, and 198 yards on 33 plays without him (6.0). I'd rate his performance vs. the pass just a 2.5, giving him credit for the team pressure on doubles he took in the 4th quarter.

Overall: You can't help but like the effort watching him again. I found myself rooting (note to self: don't waste effort rooting for old video) for him to do well the same way I'd root for any hard-working guy to succeed, but the results were what they were. He personally played the run very well, but the Ravens stopped the run very effectively both with him in and with him out, and they suffered with him on the pass rush.

This was a lot of fun, and I'm sure no one is going to change their mind based on my analysis here, particularly from a game with such mixed results. I would suggest this season maybe we could do a "player of the week" breakdown. To me, it's much more fun to do for players with 10-35 plays than the every-down stars.

[lance1086]

I would love to breakdown the rookie class. Grubbs, Yanda,Figurs, Barnes, etc... That would be great! Not to mention useful. Justin Bannan is a short timer here, the new rookie class is full of potential!

:insane: Justin Bannan is a DT. The "new rookie class" doesn't consist of any DTs; and not to mention, we also lost one to Free Agency. Not sure why you think Justin Bannan is a short timer here, when there's really no one to take his job.

Not that I'm complaining. I really liked what i saw from Bannan last season (as a rotational lineman) & would love to see him stick around a few more years.

[jonboy79]

:insane:

Not that I'm complaining. I really liked what i saw from Bannan last season (as a rotational lineman) & would love to see him stick around a few more years.

That's precisely why this post came about. Dozens of us held this opinion, which is clearly debated by the stats with him on the field. His presence statistically hirt the team last year. I'd welcome the opportunity to review a couple of these games, but I no longer have any on my DVR... I may have been simply rooting for the effort. In the long run thogh, that may turn him into our next Kelly Gregg.

[lance1086]

That's precisely why this post came about. Dozens of us held this opinion, which is clearly debated by the stats with him on the field. His presence statistically hirt the team last year. I'd welcome the opportunity to review a couple of these games, but I no longer have any on my DVR... I may have been simply rooting for the effort. In the long run thogh, that may turn him into our next Kelly Gregg.

I watched the Tampa game last night. And still thought he looked fine. He was solid against the run, in taking on his man. And got a decent push on passes. Also, he had an effect on the 3rd INT, by getting a very good push right into Simms causing the bad pass. He isn't in our top 2 DTs, but I still believe that he was a good rotational lineman & will certainly not be cut.

I was gonna upload all the plays in which Bannan was in (against Tampa), but i got lazy. Maybe I'll do it later today.

[jonboy79]

I
I was gonna upload all the plays in which Bannan was in (against Tampa), but i got lazy. Maybe I'll do it later today.


If you do, I'll throw a set of eyes on it in the next couple of days.

[B-more Ravor]

The team was supposedly very happy with his play, so who am I to argue? :D

[Filmstudy]

Uploading the Tampa game is a great. I'll post the times of the plays he was in, but I have 2 things to say about it:

1. Statistically, Bannan had 2.9 YPPA while the team had 2.8, so he played at the same level as the team, something that was not representative of the season as a whole (Bannan 5.5, Team 4.5). That being said, we're doing this to see how people break down the action, not to prove a specific point about Bannan.

2. I personally want PBP analysis, not simply a general impression of what you saw (although that's cool if supported by good PBP analysis). He was only in for 16 defensive plays vs. Tampa, so that's not a huge assignment. It takes me about 45 minutes to both analyze the plays and take notes, then another 20 minutes to type it up.

[ExiledRaven]

Nice work Film....I really enjoy this stuff.

It might be interesting instead to compare Bannan's numbers to who 1) who he replaced and 2) who replaced him.

That will be an interesting indicator in terms of depth or some minor-supposed indicator of overall impact on the defense the change of a player might have.

Definitely interested in seeing a lot more...I really wish I had the time to do what you're doing. Really great stuff.

Thanks again for running through these stats :thumbup:

[Filmstudy]

Bannan's plays vs. Tampa:

Q2 1/10 TB 32 14:36

Q2 2/8 TB 34 14:01

Q2 1/10 TB 37 8:52

Q2 2/2 TB 45 8:18

Q2 1/10 TB 50 7:39

Q2 2/6 Bal 46 6:55

Q3 1/10 Bal 12 7:20

Q3 2/11 Bal 13 6:43

Q3 3/4 Bal 6 5:50

Q3 4/4 Bal 6 5:45

Q3 1/10 TB 31 1:14

Q3 1/5 TB 25 0:39

Q3 2/2 TB 28 0:36

Q4 1/10 TB 31 15:00

Q4 1/10 TB 41 14:19

Q4 2/6 TB 45 13:38

I'll post notes after I review.

[Art-Florida]

These stats are pretty dry, but the conclusions are pure gold. Keep up the sterling work.

[Filmstudy]

Hey ExiledRaven, explain to me a little better what it is you'd like checked. You were asking who he replaced and who replaced him? That's sort of the whole comparison. Bannan has the aggregate stats for his defensive plays, and I have the stats for each other heavy, both for each game and the season.

Anyway, let me know what you're looking for and I may well have it.

[lance1086]

As it has been reported, despite what one game you watched he is very replaceable and will only be here for a short while unless he gets better *which we all hope). My comments were to Filmstudy, to do this type of analysis on our rookie class, which will be very useful and interesting. :insane: :insane: :insane: Not sure where you are coming from.

Read your sentence, buddy.

"Justin Bannan is a short timer here, the new rookie class is full of potential!"

Anyone with any sort of intellect, would think that says: Justin isn't going to be around long, because our new rookie class has a ton of potential & will push him out of a job. So, yes, you didn't make your point very clear at all.

Furthermore, I taped every Raven's game (that we won). And I have re-watched them (unfortunately, I don't have the hours in my day, to break down & take notes on every single play). Either way, I still believe that Bannan is easily the 3rd best DT on our team & there is ZERO chance that he gets cut this year. He still has 3 years left on his contract, and he'll probably be around for atleast 2 of those.

[bassgtrst]

Bannan is going to be around atleast until his contract expires. However I doubt he gets an extension when his contract expires.

I think it would be hard for Filmstudy to compile YPP type stats for the OL since the most of the OL players are on the field for the entire game, barring injury.

Keep up the good work Filmstudy! Always a good read!

[ExiledRaven]

Hey ExiledRaven, explain to me a little better what it is you'd like checked. You were asking who he replaced and who replaced him? That's sort of the whole comparison. Bannan has the aggregate stats for his defensive plays, and I have the stats for each other heavy, both for each game and the season.

Anyway, let me know what you're looking for and I may well have it.

I guess I mean side for side. ie, your stats for say Ngata, Pryce, Edwards, Gregg side by side just to compare.

Maybe even compare down situations: for example compare who played RDE on 1st down, 2nd and long, 2nd and med/short, 3rd and long, 3rd and short.

Who knows, but whatever you do is great, it's a good read.

[Filmstudy]

ExiledRaven I don't keep position (LDE, RDE, etc.) where the heavy lined up on my spreadsheet, merely that they were onthe field. With the pre-snap movement the Ravens have, it would be very difficult.

I have done some combination analysis, particularly with Gregg and Ngata. I found it very illuminating, but if you think Kelly Gregg got screwed out of the Pro Bowl, you would not.

Lance, I'd certainly agree that Bannan is our 3rd best DT now, particularly with Franklin gone and Edwards looking like he'll be moving back from primarily DE to primarily DT this season. I simply hope he can contribute at a level substantially higher than last year. Since you have the recordings, can you do just 1 of those games? Pick one where Bannan just had 10 or so plays if need be (like the 12 at Cleveland). I want to see if folks are either seeing or looking for something different on a play-by-play basis.

Ravennurse, we'll break down some of those rookies as the season progresses.

[lance1086]

Lance, I'd certainly agree that Bannan is our 3rd best DT now, particularly with Franklin gone and Edwards looking like he'll be moving back from primarily DE to primarily DT this season. I simply hope he can contribute at a level substantially higher than last year. Since you have the recordings, can you do just 1 of those games? Pick one where Bannan just had 10 or so plays if need be (like the 12 at Cleveland). I want to see if folks are either seeing or looking for something different on a play-by-play basis.

I'll try. It's just tough to find time in the day (it would prolly take 60-90 minutes, i imagine; b/w finding all the plays he was in, analyzing them, & taking the notes). But again, I'll try. It'll prolly be SD, Atl, or Pitt. I don't have a ton going on tomorrow, and can try to do it.

[Filmstudy]

The exact times of the plays from the Cleveland game is in my post, but if you want to do 1 of the 3 games you mentioned, he had 32 plays vs. SD, 17 vs. Atlanta, and 2 only before the injury vs. Pitt at home ended his season.

[lance1086]

The exact times of the plays from the Cleveland game is in my post, but if you want to do 1 of the 3 games you mentioned, he had 32 plays vs. SD, 17 vs. Atlanta, and 2 only before the injury vs. Pitt at home ended his season.

I'll prolly do the Cleveland game instead, since you have the times listed. I'd actually thought you wanted me to do a different game, but i'll do cleveland if i've got the time tomorrow.

[lance1086]

This is my first time doing this, so bear with me. I was mainly looking at the DTs & comparing them. I was comparing their explosion off the ball on every play (OTB: Off The Ball), and their pressure on passing plays (PRESSURE). Also, I put asterisks next to the plays, where I felt that Bannan was the most effective DT.



***Q1 1/10 Clv 14 0:27
RDE. 5 Man rush (3 DLinemen & 2 LBs). Bannan was doubled, but still got a good push. Of the 3 linemen, Bannan got the most push, followed by Franklin (he got a substantially better push than gregg, who was singled up on the RT).

Result: It was a short drop by Frye and a he released the ball quickly, negating any pressure on the play. Complete to Winslow for 11 yards.

OTB:
Franklin
Bannan
Gregg

PRESSURE:
Bannan
Franklin
Gregg



Q2 1/10 Clv 13 15:00
LDE. 3-4 Alignment (Bannan--Gregg--Franklin), With Suggs blitzing from the right (4-man rush). Bannan was singled up on the RT. Didn't get much pressure, as he was fanned outside. (NOTE: Gregg got good pressure up the middle).

Result: Again, it was a rather quick release, thus any pressure wasn't much of an issue for Frye. Complete to Edwards for 12 yards.

OTB:
Bannan
Franklin
Gregg

PRESSURE:
Gregg
Bannan
Franklin




Q2 1/10 Clv 25 14:34
RDE. 3-4 Alignment (Suggs--Gregg--Bannan). Bannan was quick off the ball, but was immediately cut-block to his knees. Got right back up, and chased after the play, jumping on the pile (but Bannan was not much of a factor in the play).

Result: Gain of 3 up the middle

OTB:
Bannan
Gregg




Q2 2/7 Clv 28 13:58
RDE. 3-4 (Suggs--Gregg--Bannan), with Scott blitzing behind a stunting Suggs. 4-man rush. Bannan chipped from LG to LT. Began to get a good push toward the QB, on the LT. But Frye got rid of the ball. The chip on Bannan did give Frye a good throwing lane.

Result: Complete to Northcut for 27 yards (very good run after the catch).

OTB:
Gregg
Bannan

PRESSURE: Both Gregg & Bannan got decent pushes toward the QB
Gregg
Bannan




***Q2 1/10 Clv 26 3:41
LDE. 3-4 (Bannan--Franklin--Gregg). Bannan was initially doubled by the RG & RT. Both released, to reach the next level. Bannan made a nice play once they released, pursuing down the line of scrimmage to make a nice hit on the ball carrier.

Result: Rush up the middle, for gain of 1

OTB:
Franklin
Bannan
Gregg

NOTE: the difference in their explosion off the ball, was minimal on this play




Q2 2/9 Clv 27 2:59
LDE. 5-man rush (3 down linemen, blitzed 2 up the middle). The rush failed to get to Frye, and Bannan was easily handled MTM by the RT. He didn't really have any impact on play.

Result: 3 step drop, quick release, pass was complete for 8 yards to Edwards.

OTB:
Franklin
Gregg
Bannan


PRESSURE: Franklin got a decent push, but Gregg nor Bannan got one.
Franklin
Gregg & Bannan were about equal




***Q2 3/1 Clv 35 2:35
Weird play to analyze. The whole 'D' was in disarray. It was a run to the right side. Bannan fought off 2 blockers & was the only lineman to not get knocked off his feet. Made the tackle, after a gain of 2, but it was still enough for the first down.

Result: 2 yard run, first down

OTB: no idea






Q2 1/Goal Bal 1 0:29
Goalline defense, featuring 4 big guys (Bannan, Gregg, Franklin, and Ngata). All were forced to play the run (since the ball was at the 1), and all got very low at the snap (submarining), attempting to get the penetration. Since it was a pass, they were all kinda screwed over & the OLinemen simply pushed them to the ground. None of the Dlinemen, including Bannan, were able to get back up in time to stop Frye from scrambling up the middle for a TD.

Result: TD

OTB: about equal, since they were all pushed to the ground at the snap.





Q4 1/10 Clv 20 14:56
LDE. 5-Man rush (3DTs, 2 LBs up the gut). Bannan took on a double-team, which helped the blitzers get pressure.

Result: Frye had to get rid of it quickly, and threw incomplete.

OTB:
Bannan
Ngata
Gregg

PRESSURE: overall, not much by the DTS
Bannan
Ngata
Gregg




Q4 2/10 Clv 20 14:53
RDT. 4-man rush. Bannan was pushed to the ground by the RT.

Result: Good pressure on the right side by Suggs & Scott forced an incomplete pass.

OTB:
Gregg & Bannan

PRESSURE:
Gregg & Bannan were equally ineffective (Bannan was pushed to the ground. Gregg was handled easily by the LG & got no penetration)




***Q4 1/10 Bal 34 7:42
RDT, next to Gregg, who was LDT (Only 2 DTs in the game). Handoff to Wright. Bannan exploded into the LT nicely, and fought off the block. He got a hand on Wright, slowing him down before Lewis, Landry, and JJ swarmed to make the tackle.

OTB:
Bannan
Gregg





***Q4 2/7 Bal 31 7:01
LDT. 5-man rush. 3 Down linemen (Bannan--Gregg--Ngata) & 2 blitzing LBs. Bannan was doubled by the RT and RG, and taken out of play. But Thomas & Scott used that double-team, to get a free run at the QB, deflecting the pass.

Result: Scott deflected pass, incomplete

OTB:
Bannan
Ngata
Gregg

Pressure: all 3 were ineffective rushing the QB


**********************************************************
SUMMARY
*********************************************************T
Here are the averages for Gregg's & Bannan's explosion off the ball & pressure on passes (these are only for the plays in which Bannan was in the game. Also, i didn't calculate Franklin's or Ngata's since they were only in on a couple plays). The numbers were simply calculated by comparisions (i.e., if he was the fastest off the snap, he got a 1; second fastest, he got a 2, etc. That said, if they were both equally ineffective, I'd give them a 3). Either way, the lower the better.

Bannan
OTB (10 plays) - 1.5
PRESSURE (7 plays) - 2.29


Gregg
OTB (10 plays) - 2.3
PRESSURE (7 plays) - 2.43

12 total plays: 5.7 YPP (although i thought the number was a bit misleading. 50 of those yards came on 3 successive passes, in which Bannan really didn't do anything wrong. He had a good push toward the QB on 2 of them, but Frye was delivering the ball very quickly & on target. A missed tackle in the secondary also turned into a 27 yard gain).

- 5 rushes, 10 yards (2.0 yds/carry)
- 7 passes, 58 yards (8.286 yds/pass)



The GOOD: I thought he played a solid game. Of the 12 plays he was in, he was the most effective DT (IMO) 5 out of 12 plays. His pass-rush was rather consistent. And his quickness off the ball was considerably better than both Gregg & Ngata (he was as quick or quicker off the ball, than Ngata & Gregg in 9 of the 11 plays where I could judge that). The lack of sacks while he was in cannot be completely attributed to him (he was as at the very least, just as effective a pass-rusher, as was Gregg or Ngata). He fought hard & made some nice plays against the run. He also played to the whistle on every play.


The BAD: Got pushed to the ground too often. Does not maintain as strong a base as the other DTs against the run (though he did make some nice plays in the game). Doesn't get his hands up on passes.


So overall, he looked as quick, if not quicker, than the other DTs. He also rushed the passer rather effectively (though the sack results don't show). He hustles every play. He got handled by some bigger blockers too easily at times & can take himself out of plays. He didn't play with as much leverage or maintain as strong a base as the other DTs. Doesn't put his hands up enough on passes.

[Filmstudy]

This is good Lance. For starters, you added the speed off the snap, which is something some folks should want to know.

The description of the plays we have is very similar, with the only difference I can see coming in our assessment of pressure provided by Bannan. I think of the pocket as an imaginary arc or parabola around the QB. The OL's job is to keep the DL's out of that either by holding tight to a point perhaps 2-3 yards behind the LoS in the middle and also using lateral push on the side to as you say "fan out" the edge rushers. Bannan did not personally penetrate the pocket on any play, although there were some quick passes there.

He's a player that is fun to watch for the effort he puts out, and he's playing with the considerable disadvantage that he usually replaces a great player when he runs on the field.

I look forward to more of these sorts of analyses for the preseason.

[Filmstudy]

This is good Lance. For starters, you added the speed off the snap, which is something some folks should want to know.

The description of the plays we have is very similar, with the only difference I can see coming in our assessment of pressure provided by Bannan. I think of the pocket as an imaginary arc or parabola around the QB. The OL's job is to keep the DL's out of that either by holding tight to a point perhaps 2-3 yards behind the LoS in the middle and also using lateral push on the side to as you say "fan out" the edge rushers. Bannan did not personally penetrate the pocket on any play, although there were some quick passes there.

He's a player that is fun to watch for the effort he puts out, and he's playing with the considerable disadvantage that he usually replaces a great player when he runs on the field.

I look forward to more of these sorts of analyses for the preseason.

[jonboy79]

I don't have any old games to re-watch, so I have to view what is pointed out by others at this point. What it appears is that Bannan was by a wide margin in either direction our 3rd best DT last year. Ngata and Gregg seperated themselves, but at the same time, Bannan seems to have seperated from Aubrayo and Dwan. Thus, IMO, unless he does improve his penetration on passing downs, which could certainly happen based on his first step, then he will be a short timer here in Baltimore. Now if he can perfect some swin moves and can fish his way into the backfield more often, then he is a valuable cog for this team. It also does appear that he needs to work on gettign lower when defending the run, as it has been pointed out he was getting pancaked back on to his "tookis"(phonics). At minimum, he provides an adequate hevy to allow the top two to catch a breather from time to time. We should have drafted another rotational guy this year, I suppose we now will next year.

[lance1086]

The description of the plays we have is very similar, with the only difference I can see coming in our assessment of pressure provided by Bannan. I think of the pocket as an imaginary arc or parabola around the QB. The OL's job is to keep the DL's out of that either by holding tight to a point perhaps 2-3 yards behind the LoS in the middle and also using lateral push on the side to as you say "fan out" the edge rushers. Bannan did not personally penetrate the pocket on any play, although there were some quick passes there.


Well, the "pressure" was a very comparative analysis. In that, if his pass-rush was substantially better than the other DTs on that play, I'd call it a good pass rush (even if the rush wasn't overly effective). I was just trying to see if his pass-rush was any worse than the other DTs (although i ended up only comparing him to Gregg in that aspect, due to number of plays). And in the handful of plays that I looked at, Bannan's rush wasn't any worse (in fact, in my oppinion it was slightly better; though, neither's pass-rush was particularly effective).

[lance1086]

I don't have any old games to re-watch, so I have to view what is pointed out by others at this point. What it appears is that Bannan was by a wide margin in either direction our 3rd best DT last year. Ngata and Gregg seperated themselves, but at the same time, Bannan seems to have seperated from Aubrayo and Dwan. Thus, IMO, unless he does improve his penetration on passing downs, which could certainly happen based on his first step, then he will be a short timer here in Baltimore. Now if he can perfect some swin moves and can fish his way into the backfield more often, then he is a valuable cog for this team. It also does appear that he needs to work on gettign lower when defending the run, as it has been pointed out he was getting pancaked back on to his "tookis"(phonics). At minimum, he provides an adequate hevy to allow the top two to catch a breather from time to time. We should have drafted another rotational guy this year, I suppose we now will next year.

Jonboy, here are the 12 plays of Bannan from the Cleveland game. Quality is kinda low, but take a look at it if you want: http://files.filefront.com//;7803196;;/

[jonboy79]

[QUOTE=lance1086;39280]

Q2 2/7 Clv 28 13:58

He got tossed from one lineman to another to create a lane... not good. Not good tackling at all, which also showed up in the other earlier large gain pass play.

***Q2 1/10 Clv 26 3:41

Fought off two nice blocks here, amde the takcel. Perhaps the lineman releases because he is ahead of the first down marker??

***Q2 3/1 Clv 35 2:35
Weird play to analyze. The whole 'D' was in disarray.

I agree, though I think he was almost "lost" alone in a sea of BROWNS, and missed what could have otherwise been a tackle for a loss.


Q2 1/Goal Bal 1 0:29
This play is missing...


Q4 2/10 Clv 20 14:53
RDT. 4-man rush. Bannan was pushed to the ground by the LT.



**********************************************************
SUMMARY
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Twice a victim of bad tackling. This does not completely excuse his lack of required push. He seems to get off the snap quickly, get s short area push and stall... He neither overwhelms his man nor gets by him. He was able to suck up a double team on more then one occasion. It seems to me he would benefit more from being on the field with Ngata on first down... Tackles seemed to have little trouble riding him wide of the pocket when coming off the edge. Perhaps we should save that for the more fleet footed and keep Bannan inside where he appeared to be more effective. Above comments are where I felt there was something to add or provide counter to Lance's observations. Otherwise I saw what he did.