The realities

[Purpleguy]

A win is a win, but this team has issues.

1. The o-line sucks as bad as ever. Ozzie needs to take some accountability for this crap.

2. Jamal is nowhere near an elite back anymore. He's slow, can't hit the holes, and still stutter steps. We should have kept Chester. He's faster, can catch out of the backfield, and pass blocks better than Jailmal.

3. I question whether McNair is really all that much of an upgrade. He's been about as accurate as a bent BB gun, he has no arm strength, and I haven't been that impressed with his pocket prescence. Derick mason bailed him out big time today.

4. The defense is as awsome as the 2000 unit. Hopefully the offense can do just enough to get us some wins, but our 3 cakewalk games are done and now the schedule gets tough.

[Beerracuda]

You forgot to mention:

5. The playcalling sucks!! Why do you run a reverse deep in your own territory with 2 mins to go? Why do you throw 3 consecutive passes when you're at or near FG range with time running out? Why do you run Jamal straight up the middle where there are 9 guys waiting for him on 4th and 2?

[Sephy]

Have you seen Chester Taylor? He's floundering well under 4 YPC with the help of what is probably the best OL in football.

[Purpleguy]

yes, the playcalling does suck. Fassel probably shouldn't be a coordinator much less a head coach.

[RavenTD]

Why do you run a reverse deep in your own territory with 2 mins to go?

You know Beer' I almost puked on what I was eating when I saw that play.
I thought we were trying to run the clock out on that drive.Can we have some up tempo please.

[BertJonesMyHero]

<<< and I haven't been that impressed with his pocket prescence

You must be joking. Did you not see the final drive? Our OL sucks balls and he was getting pummeled- but still completed the necessary passes from the pocket.

His arm strength has been fine also. He has not been accurate though.(He did end up at 56% today which isn't terrible)

The offense sucks plain and simple. If it stays like that all year, it's time for a coaching change. And despite his many successes, Ozzie needs to be held accountable for the OL situation.

The flip side is we are 3-0, so calls for a new staff will fall on deaf ears. Not much we as fans can do but hope the offense improves. Because this will not cut it against good teams. Which has been the story for years now. But like Tasker pointed out- Real or imagined, the players believe in McNair unlike his predecessors. I actually had hope when we got the ball back with 2 minutes left for a change.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

21 carries for 86 yards, 4 YPC. That isn't horrible. If he gets more carries in these first three games, he's got three 100 yard games. His injury his hampering him right now, but he's running hard.

[BertJonesMyHero]

Playcalling-
It just kills me that we throw the ball a yard short on 3rd downs. Always has.

[Heap86]

Every team has issues, its good to have issues and be 3-0.

No game in the NFL is a cakewalk, having that attitude will cause letdowns.

This team will not overlook the Chargers, we have to prove we can beat good teams now.

[Kaven]

McNairs leadership and will won the game, with an assist from McAlister.

[highwater]

I agree with points 1,3 and 4 (the OL sucking, because it sure did, McNair looking bad, and the defense looking very good). I don't agree about Jamal just yet, but I am wondering about him. He shows flashes now and then, but at times, he doesn't look very effective. Some of that is due to the OL.

The OL sucking doesn't exactly shock me, but I am a bit puzzled at McNair's bad throws. It almost looks like there is something wrong with his arm. As far as I know, nothing is wrong, but some of his throws are just really off target. Strange.

[Purpleguy]

Bert, on that last drive his pocket prescence was good, but it wouldn't have been necessary had he played well for the first 58 minutes. He was damn lucky that Cleveland dropped INTS. He was forcing plays and way way off target.

Cleveland sucks against the run, and Jailmal couldn't get anything going, so it was tough to get play action going.

The fact is that we should have came in and laid the wood to this wounded browns team. We got very lucky to get a win.

[StingerNLG]

Bert, on that last drive his pocket prescence was good, but it wouldn't have been necessary had he played well for the first 58 minutes. He was damn lucky that Cleveland dropped INTS. He was forcing plays and way way off target.

Thank you. This had nothing to do with McNair's leadership. Leadership doesn't put you in a 14-3 hole and make you pray that Stover can actually hit that 52 yard field goal to win the game for you because you wildly overthrew your receiver on 3rd down.

Sorry, but I don't see it yet.

[The Fanatic]

3-0 is great, but something needs to change!!

How many years running are we now with this pathetic offensive football?

I know Mcnair is much older now, and has lost some arm strength, etc.

But no way in hell a guy like that goes from NFL MVP just two years ago to looking like a reincarnation of every QB we've had since Billick got here.

The system, play calling and continued poor offensive line play are the constants that never change.

That crap we just watched Will Not get it done against better teams such as what we now have in front of us.

I'd love to know what Biscotti is thinking right now.

After all, besides owning the team, he pretty much brings the same fan type mentallity as the rest of us.

[Mista T]

His arm strength has been fine also.

:229031_confused2:

Those looping tosses? If not for some outstanding catches by Mason, the long tosses would have been incomplete. Judging from what we have seen in three games, it's obvious why the Titans didn't put up a fight to keep McNair. His first three quarters' performance today was mediocre at best. Add that to not much in Tampa after the first drive and a sad showing against Oakland. He was outplayed today by nobody Charlie Fry. Outstanding catches by Mason and Calyton masked the low quality of passes thrown in the 4th quarter comeback.

The reality: I do not see McNair as an upgrade so far. (I don't put much stock in terms like "intangibles" and "leadership", which sound like apologies). I am hoping he can step it up with upcoming games against a few teams that can score points.

:mrt:

[The Fanatic]

"it's obvious why the Titans didn't put up a fight to keep McNair."

Could have fooled me.

If that was the case, they would have taken the first offer we made and been happy.

I definitely think arm strength is an issue regarding Mcnair, but the intangibles are not.

Noi doubt in my mind a younger less experienced QB in that situation, and we would have lost.

Don't know what it is, but his presence on the field means something to these guys which is an intangible that can't be over looked.

With that being said, this offense including Mcnair need to step it up a couple notches or these borderline wins will become ass kickings from our opponents.

[WxKevin]

Why is Charlie Fry a "nobody". He showed signs last year that he had the potential to be a good QB. I think we saw that today. He was getting his ass kicked and running for his life and made plays. Give the guy some credit.

[df1570]

The reality is that Romeo Crennel and his offensive coordinator should be fined a week's pay for calling that pass play with 3:21 to go in the game (which CMac intercepted). S-T-U-P-I-D.

Why on earth didn't they just run the ball there? If they get a TD, great (not great for the Ravens, but you know what I mean). If they kick a FG, the game would have probably been over. Baltimore wasn't going to drive the length of the field for a TD, I assume.

That will go down as a horrendous play call in Cleveland. If you're going to throw the ball, throw a jump ball in the corner...don't throw it across the middle of the field. In the end, though, a pass at that point was totally the wrong thing to do.

If that would have been Billick-Fassel calling that play (with the same results), people would be lined up at 1 Winning Drive waiting for them to pull into the driveway.

Next thought: McNair's gonna get his head taken off soon if they don't find someone to block for him.

And finally: 3-0 is way better than 2-1, especially when Cincy is 3-0 with TWO road wins in tough venues.

[PurpleRulz]

Outstanding catches by Mason and Calyton masked the low quality of passes thrown in the 4th quarter comeback.


That is what good receivers do. That is why QBs like Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning are so great; they both have WRs that make them look great. Same for Big Ben.

I am not saying that McNair was lights out today, but every QB needs WRs that they can get the ball to and hope those guys can make plays. That's what McNair did today. Guaranteed, Boller could not have made those throws and would have buckled under the pressure of that 4th quarter drive. McNair was not great, but he was good enough to get the ball to our playmakers at WR. Clayton and Mason can't make those catches if the QB is not getting the ball to them. That's why they are called PLAYMAKERS.

[PD101]

That will go down as a horrendous play call in Cleveland.

It's Cleveland once you breath the air bad things start to happen. Just ask Marty Shootmyasser or Mike Hasbeen.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

The reality: I do not see McNair as an upgrade so far. (I don't put much stock in terms like "intangibles" and "leadership", which sound like apologies). I am hoping he can step it up with upcoming games against a few teams that can score points.

:mrt:

Sorry but that is complete bulls--t. We are 3-0. No way do we win the game today with Boller at the helm. If you choose not to believe that McNair has given the team confidence, hey, thats your opinion, but your opinion is wrong. McNair's intangibles have made the difference. He's given the D the confidence that they'll have support and he's given the offensive a leader, someone they can rally around.

I'm not even going to get into the comment of the WRs bailing him out because that is simply scraping the bottom of the barrel. WRs are supposed to make plays. They did today.

Not saying McNair has been perfect or great by any means, but to say he's "not an upgrade" is just, wow. I can't find a word for it. Ridiculous. Quite frankly I'm sick and tired of people talking like we are 1-2. I'll take 13 more wins JUST LIKE TODAY thank you.

[darb72]

Once again I'll ask you about the Jets game two years ago or the Texans game last year...

Oh wait, I'm trying to have an intelligent football discussion with you. Silly me.

[StingerNLG]

Guaranteed, Boller could not have made those throws and would have buckled under the pressure of that 4th quarter drive.

COUGH COUGH HOUSTON COUGH COUGH COUGH BOLLER TO CLAYTON COUGH COUGH COUGH

Come on, I get tired of dismissing Boller's same exact situations. Although I knew this honeymoon period with McNair would bring some of it out.

And if you want to get technical, Boller did it on a 9 man blitz, and got WELL within FG range, where as McNair got only got Stover 52 yards from the posts, and OVERTHREW HIS RECEIVER ON 3RD AND MEDIUM!

If Stover misses that FG, are we talking about how McNair marched the team downfield, or are we talking about McNair overthrowing Heap on 3rd down to lose the game because Stover was way out of range?


I'll take 13 more wins JUST LIKE TODAY thank you.

2K6, we're not getting 13 more wins that way. I respect you man, always. But you are definitely reaching tonight. It's like we've watched two seperate games today. It almost sounds like the defense has so little pride and desire that if Boller was playing they wouldn't have played that way.


I'm not even going to get into the comment of the WRs bailing him out because that is simply scraping the bottom of the barrel. WRs are supposed to make plays. They did today.

I almost want to dig up the game thread from the Houston game. I can guarantee you (much like you can guarantee Boller wouldn't have won this game), that many people said exactly the opposite when bashing Boller for having to come back and win that game.

This is what is frustrating. We're 3-0, yes. But we're acting like this offense was the difference. Shit, if C-Mac only gets a hand on the ball and doesn't pick it off, none of this matters.

And I'll ask again. If Stover misses that 52 YARD FG, are we talking about how McNair marched the team downfield? I bet not.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

COUGH COUGH HOUSTON AT HOME COUGH COUGH

Please. Theres a difference in leading a comeback at home and leading one on the road. Boller did lead one on the road but that was 2 years ago. Boller hasn't won on the road since, so EXCUSE ME if I have my doubts about his ability to lead us back in such a scenario.

[darb72]

So Boller has proven he can do it on the road against a much better defense, yet you still continue to bash the guy. Simply amazing.

Don't bother responding, I won't be able to read a word you say.

[StingerNLG]

And we almost didn't today.

A 52 YARD FIELD GOAL!! You're acting like McNair drove us to the 25 yard line and Stover had some chip shot to put the game away. He didn't.

Again, I'll ask the question, because someone needs to answer it. Stover misses that 52 YARD FG, are we talking about how McNair marched the team downfield? Or are we talking about how McNair couldn't get us into FG range and wildy overthrew Heap on 3rd down?

Stover won this game on his leg. 52 yards I say again.


I'll ask a second question. Does this inspire anyone that this offense will be able to keep up with the Bengals? Are you even inspired that we're going to keep up with the Chargers?

[RavenFanatic2k6]

We are probably talking about how McNair couldn't get us into FG range. Hell, just listen to the radio. You'd think we lost the game anyway.

As far as the WR comment about going back to that Houston game, you are probably right, but I've never been that guy. I've been critical of Boller but never critical just to be critical.

[Heap86]

I have pretty much come to the conclusion that certain posters (who shall remain namless) will never be happy with McNair's play due to the size of his contract, and thier infatuation with Kyle Boller. I have pretty much gotten used to it.

Just ignore those guys, no matter how good of a record this team has, some Ravens fans will still complain about everything, they are so used to doing it, that no matter what happens they will still do it.

I am a Ravens fan who is happy with a win, until these problems cause this team to lose, I will not be complaining.

3-0 and loving it.

[Art-Florida]

Boller's name has come up several times in several threads today. What I want to know is why?

Steve McNair is a nice guy.
Steve McNair (usually) loks great in the pocket, very smooth.
The team seems to have a lot of confidence in Steve.
Steve McNair is 3-0 with the Ravens.
Steve is good in the clutch...so far at least.

Steve McNair has a rag arm.
Steve isn't terribly accurate at any range.
Steve McNair's fragility is scary.

Steve hasn't beat a quality team yet. (the Browns looked semi-respectable today, but they'll seek their level by season's end - at the bottom.)

Do I paint an accurate picture?
***********************

There, see, not once was Kyle Boller's name mentioned. Let's keep it that way until Kyle is taking snaps in a game once more and the haters can refill their fangs with venom.

[darb72]

Nice try Art, but those "fans" followed us over here. There is an easy way to deal with them though.

[Purpleguy]

Almost every knowledgeable fan I have ever talked to has realized for years that the o-line is our problem. There are a few ignorant assholes out there tha blamed Boller for everything, but they also think that if a QB doesn't put up Montana type numbers, he's useless.

Let's look at our chain of QBs, with the exception of Redman, all of them had talent and won with other teams. We lived off defense and the run. Our defense has held up their end, the running game has gone to mediocre. If a guy is contantly geting over an injury or a jail sentence, then let him go.

Blame the playcalling or system if you want, but I don't know what plays or system would work with such an atrocious line.

I'm sure i'll get flamed for this, but we wouldn't have come back with Boller today. We wouldn't have had to. There is no way he throws all of those short passes. McNair played hideously today, and other than one preseason drive, and one regular season drive, he's been pretty bad since he got here. I don't know how long he needs to "click", especially considering we have his favorite target from TN, and a great tightend.

If we expected it him to take so long to get the offense down, then why in the hell didn't Ozzie pull the trigger faster?

[Art-Florida]

Nice try Art, but those "fans" followed us over here. There is an easy way to deal with them though.

I realize that Darb. I am aware of the ignore option, but hey, I was even reading the Browns' game thread earlier too. :) Now there is an entire CITY to disregard.

It is just damn irritating to hear Ravens fans in their fervor of defending a guy they like dragging in another players name when it has absolutely no connection with the subject at hand.

"Say what you like about today's game, but Travis Taylor sucked and would have made us lose today!"

(See what I mean?)

[StingerNLG]

The point 2K6 was just that this hasn't given me any reason to believe we're going to hang when we get into the meat of our schedule. Yes, absolutely 3-0 is better than 2-1. But the people on the radio share my concern. And I can't imagine the meltdown this city would have had if we actually lost this game. And we were THAT close to it, on a team that we should never have been that close to.

My issue is that now for the second week in a row, this offense has looked inept. Except this week, we were in a 14-3 hole before we could even blinked. This was supposed to be a cakewalk. This was the week this offense would steamroll. And it took Stover's leg to win the game. Think about it, the Browns were playing a simple defense without their key CB, and their front seven held the offense in check for almost the entire game. That doesn't bother anyone??

And I am really concerned that unless this offense get's it's collective shit together, we could be in trouble going up against teams that can get a 17-20 point lead on us. Our defense still seems to be able to give up the big play, and Kevin Winslow for all his BS made our defense look stupid at times.

Call me what you will, but I am not confident with this offense the way it is right now that we're going 4-0 beating the Chargers.

[Purpleguy]

I'm not concerned about the big plays the defense gave up. They still only gave up 14 points. We ran a ton of blitzes today, and that's because we knew the Clowns couldn't run on us. When you blitz like crazy, you're bound to give up an occasional big play. Frye was incredibly lucky that lob didn't get picked. Let's also remember that Winslow and Edwards have talent.

Next week, with LT lining up in the backfield we won't be blitzing as much. We'll be respecting the run.

[Ravens'N'Hoos]

I'm sure i'll get flamed for this, but we wouldn't have come back with Boller today. We wouldn't have had to. There is no way he throws all of those short passes. McNair played hideously today, and other than one preseason drive, and one regular season drive, he's been pretty bad since he got here. I don't know how long he needs to "click", especially considering we have his favorite target from TN, and a great tightend.


You've got to be kidding. First you start off - correctly - saying the o-line is the common denominator among years of offensive ineptitude. Then you go on to blame McNair? No way Boller would've put us in a position to win this game today. Need to be reminded of Boller's road record, or his record in Cleveland?

I'm at a loss as well as to why McNair and the offense seem to still be out of sync, but even an out-of-sync McNair-led offense is a vast improvement over years past.

And football is to a certain extent a psychological game, so yes, intangibles, leadership, confidence all do matter. That said, if McNair doesn't get in better sync with the offense (part of which is the o-line giving him a chance to do so), those intangibles could evaporate.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

Sorry Art but when people make comments such as


The reality: I do not see McNair as an upgrade so far. (I don't put much stock in terms like "intangibles" and "leadership", which sound like apologies). I am hoping he can step it up with upcoming games against a few teams that can score points.

You are inviting someone to make a comment about Boller. Right or wrong, it's gonna happen.

[darb72]

I'm at a loss as well as to why McNair and the offense seem to still be out of sync, but even an out-of-sync McNair-led offense is a vast improvement over years past.


No, it's really not. Not yet at any rate. The only difference is that we don't go down-field. I don't know why and won't bother guessing.

[Art-Florida]

oops
Sorry Art but when people make comments such as



You are inviting someone to make a comment about Boller. Right or wrong, it's gonna happen.

I beg to differ. It is perfectly correct to defend Steve and his play without dragging in the name of a quarterback who has not taken more than two or three snaps in a game since the 2005 season.

[F Angelos]

:229031_confused2:

Those looping tosses? If not for some outstanding catches by Mason, the long tosses would have been incomplete. Judging from what we have seen in three games, it's obvious why the Titans didn't put up a fight to keep McNair. His first three quarters' performance today was mediocre at best. Add that to not much in Tampa after the first drive and a sad showing against Oakland. He was outplayed today by nobody Charlie Fry. Outstanding catches by Mason and Calyton masked the low quality of passes thrown in the 4th quarter comeback.

The reality: I do not see McNair as an upgrade so far. (I don't put much stock in terms like "intangibles" and "leadership", which sound like apologies). I am hoping he can step it up with upcoming games against a few teams that can score points.

:mrt:

Are you smoking something? Not an upgrade! This team has been destroyed by ridiculous turnovers and QB fumbles and this guy leads an 11 pt comeback and it's not an upgrade? Please. 1 Turnover in 3 games with a 4th Q comeback. Yeah that happens all the time in the Billick era.:thumbdown:

[RavenFanatic2k6]

oops

I beg to differ. It is perfectly correct to defend Steve and his play without dragging in the name of a quarterback who has not taken more than two or three snaps in a game since the 2005 season.

I think when you bring in the "upgrade" comment, it brings him into the convo. But alas, arguing after a W is pointless. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Anyway, the reality is we are 3-0. 2-0 on the road. If we take care of business at home we'll be 10-6 at worst and should be in the playoffs.

[Greg]

Boller brought us back against the Jets on the road. He brought us back against Houston. HE ALSO DROVE FOR FGS TWICE WHEN WE LOST TO CINCY AT HOME WHEN THE D COLLAPSED. People forget that we had two pretty good drives in the 4th quarter against Cincy that day, they ended in FGs when Cavanaugh ran 3 straight times into the teeth of the DL once we were in FG range. Quit saying "No way Boller brings us back." He has.

I still think McNair is an upgrade and his calmness under pressure does count for something in a 2 minute drill. But he played crappy today, often holding the ball too long and his accuracy for 3 quarters was terrible.

[Heap86]

I still think McNair is an upgrade and his calmness under pressure does count for something in a 2 minute drill. But he played crappy today, often holding the ball too long and his accuracy for 3 quarters was terrible.

Ask any Titans fan, McNair's MO has always been that he does not look great all of the time, but he produces when needed. McNair's career numbers do not look great. His toughness and poise have always been his strengths, he led the Titans to the Playoffs with subpar performances.

He is the definition of a Clutch QB, He does not fold under pressure. If he makes a mistake, he regroups and doesn't get rattled.

[Greg]

Ask any Titans fan, McNair's MO has always been that he does not look great all of the time, but he produces when needed. McNair's career numbers do not look great. His toughness and poise have always been his strengths, he led the Titans to the Playoffs with subpar performances.

He is the definition of a Clutch QB, He does not fold under pressure. If he makes a mistake, he regroups and doesn't get rattled.
All well and good, and people can make that point without the "No way Boller brings us back" takes. That's all.

[Mobtown]

!!!

Boller?!?!

Why is this guy's name even in this debate? He didn't play so there there is no way to knwo what he may or may not have done.

I have a long rant about Mac's play tonight but I am sensing it would fall on def ears. Maybe I'll play with you guys tomorrow when I am done celebrating being 3-0 for the first time EVER.

[Brandon]

I agree with a lot of the points except the Jamal one. I don't think he is done yet. Between the offensive line getting older and worse, and the RAVENS not really getting a passing game going on yet, people are still going to game plan for Jamal Lewis.

[sailorsam]

Scott Mitchell...Eric Zeir...Tony Banks...Trent Dilfer...Elvis Grbac...Chris Redman...is there some sort of purple kryptonite at M&T that empowers linebackers but neutralizes qbs? most people seem to agree that McNair is a big-time qb, so if the O stinks again this year, it must be the system, or the O-line... ...unless McNair is hurt (again). best case scenario; by the end of the season McN is comfortable in the system, throws well, and the line gels. if/then...the sky's the limit.

[OwingsMillsAlex]

You forget that in 2003 when Jamal ran the heck out of the Browns they got humiliated. It seems to me that since 2003 they have only practiced to defeat one team...The Ravens. I never see the Browns play as hard as they do against the Ravens against any other teams. It seems that they try not to let Jamal run all through them. Which brings up a very good question...where was Mike Anderson yesterday? Why was he not used for more plays? Surely if you had brought him into the mix he would have given a new look and feel to the running game.

[RavenDavey]

My first statement is that with protection...Boller can excell with the tools around him and make comebacks:rocking: ! Time will make him better when playing under the pressure of a constant rush. I'll be comfortable if he has to come in and play when McNair goes down. Secondly, my concern yesterday was that on CLE first possession, we held them to minus 10 yards with dominating and inspired defense, and they punted. We then drove to the CLE 44 and on 4th and real short...we punted! We should have gone for it out of respect to our great defense, and worst case scenario....the defense would have taken the field ready to go. On the other hand, getting the first down and a possible first drive score could have made for an entirely different game and outcome.

[skimmy]

Playcalling-


It was terrible. They were too conservative at times and too aggressive when it made no sense. The call on that reverse made no sense at that point in the game. The run up the middle on 4th down was so predictable.



It just kills me that we throw the ball a yard short on 3rd downs. Always has.

I hate when that happens. I get annoyed at the dump offs underneath on 3rd and long, but I'm not sure it has anything to do with the playcalling. The 3rd down backs can't stray too far from the LOS if he is going to truely be the safety valve. On the otherhand, Heap and the wide outs have to run their 10 yard routes as 10 yards, not round them off at 8 yards or whatever... Heap's catch a yard short of the first down had me yelling.

[ravenmaniac]

There will ALWAYS be people unhappy with a win. We are 3-0 and people are bitching. Cleveland is a better team than both Oak/Tampa. This was a GREAT win!

[StingerNLG]

RM, Cleveland coming into this game was NOT SUPPOSED TO BE a better team than Tampa. Oakland has weapons that Cleveland doesn't too. We made Cleveland's defense, even missing their key CB (which isn't saying much to begin with), look legit.

This game should never, NEVER, have been in doubt. There is no reason that we should have been looking at 20 seconds on the clock and wondering if Charlie Frye could get downfield enough to kick the winning field goal. For that matter, there is no reason we should have been on the edge of our seats wondering why the hell Matt Stover has to try to kick a 52 yard field goal and if he could even make that. There's not a reason on this Earth given the bill-of-goods we were sold on how much better this offense was going to be that we should have been ready to turn the game off at halftime in disgust because we couldn't score more than 3 points in the entire half and had a hard enough time just getting a first down. There's CERTAINLY no reason Cleveland's 2nd year rookie QB should take the beating he took, but statistically run almost dead even with our MVP QB.

Forgive me if I am not frothing at the mouth for San Diego to get here. Next Sunday we need to see some real production out of this offense or we're going to see our first loss against a good team. We need to score touchdowns folks. Not one touchdown. No multiple 3 and outs. We need to figure out how to get into the endzone. Or all this warm and fuzzy about 3-0 is going to come to a halt real quick.

[ravenmaniac]

RM, Cleveland coming into this game was NOT SUPPOSED TO BE a better team than Tampa. Oakland has weapons that Cleveland doesn't too. We made Cleveland's defense, even missing their key CB (which isn't saying much to begin with), look legit.

Sorry, but a win on the road in a hostile environment is always impressive. The only thing that we shouldn't have been was 6.5 pt favorites. Cleveland ALWAYS gets up for this game. If you can't enjoy this, then I feel sorry for you. One game and one week at a time should be their motto. These wins ALL count at the end of the yr. Our QB arrived at the beginning of summer. He is still learning. We are playing a GREAT D on Sunday. The 12th man will need to turn it up, we'll need the turnovers and we'll need to shut down LT. Lets enjoy the ride. Yesterday was just another bump in the road on the ride and we made it through. Our QB passed for almost 300 yrds, 1 TD and no TOs on the road.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

Just to update on my first post, have you read any of the quotes today?

To hear McNair tell it, his teammates were lifting him up. His teammates were saying it was the other way around. Whatever the case, they all rose together, in ways the Ravens as we know them, post-Super Bowl, haven't done all that often.

"You should have seen everybody on the sidelines, running around, saying, 'We're gonna win, we're gonna win, we're gonna win,' " - Ray Lewis

"It all starts with Steve," tight end Todd Heap said. "He looked in every guy's eyes and told everyone what to expect and what we needed to do. It's really something when everybody has confidence in what's going on. To do it under pressure at the end of the game, it's a confidence-builder for our offense."

"That drive was different than any drive I've been a part of on this team," Heap said. "Just the look in each other's eyes and to see everybody was focused and knew what we needed to do. To be able to get that win, that's a huge growth for our team. It's going to pay dividends for the next two, three games we play."

Yes, intangibles and leadership are apologies :grbac:

[ClericBlackDave]

If you dont think that McNair's play yesterday leaves something to be desired, you're crazy.


And why is Boller's name or any other QB's name in this discussion? Because we brought McNair in here to be an UPGRADE over past QBs.


I'll be sold on McNair when he throws a passing TD to a WR.


Until then, I feel that we dont have the offensive firepower to hang with the Big Dogs, and maybe, just maybe, our money would have been better spent on brining in some O-line and a good backup to Boller.


We're 3-0, and I'm happy.


But not happy with this offense.


McNair's armstrength is a real problem. His body is betraying him.


People are questioning his acuracy. I dont think that's the issue. He's making the right decisions, right reads, and the throws aren't terribly off, but they lack zip and die in the air, and the defenders get a chance to adjust.


If Boller is in there, I'm not saying we win. Actually, he might have thrown some INTs McNair didn't. But then McNair had about 2-3 easy picks dropped by the ShitStains, so he lucked out there.


McNair's arm will be a problem in games that we have to pass to get back into. The balls don't have that zip and are getting their late, and when they get there, its so soft it doesn't "stick" to the reciever's hands. You can blame some of that on the recievers, but I've never seen so many passes get batted away last minute by DBs who recover or so many passes that hit WRs but dont stick. Its got to be his arm strength.


Titans may have made a good read on McNair, I dont know how much he has left.


That said, his poise and leadership is still an upgrade over Boller AT THIS POINT. But that might not last forever and McNair's body starts to REALLY betray him.

[skimmy]

There will ALWAYS be people unhappy with a win. We are 3-0 and people are bitching. Cleveland is a better team than both Oak/Tampa. This was a GREAT win!

I am not really bitching. It's ok to be happy with a win but be mindful of the mistakes that were made that made the game a close game. I did expect a tight game against the Browns, because every year (except 2003) they've put up a good fight against the Ravens, even their first year back (1999).

To "flip the script" a little, I think the Ravens did some good things yesterday. They didn't risk much when going against the wind. The Ravens stuffed the Browns offense when the Browns had the wind in their favor in the 3rd quarter. I think that 3rd quarter goose egg was responsible for the change of momentum in the Ravens favor going into the 4th quarter. They played very close to the vest and made sure that they won the turnover battle. The turnover thing can't be stressed enough, the Ravens have won at an amazing clip since Billick took over when they win the turnover battle.

[RavenDavey]

Yes.... a win is a win. Last year when we had games like this one we were saying "we should have beat them.... or We should have won that game!" We are 3-0 and my expectation at this point realisticaly would be 2-1. The intangibles are coming together. I do have one question to ask....Were the football gods trying to make Charlie Frye into a pro-bowler?? I mean he literally got POUNDED into the ground, was throwing (not Passing) the ball up that turned into receptions, and dominated our secondary until CMAC saved the game for us. Isn't it our turn for that kind or Karma?

PS-I bet Charlie Frye feels real good today as he tries to get out of bed.... NICE POUNDING BY THE DEFENSE!!!!!!

[Raven31]

The reality: I do not see McNair as an upgrade so far. (I don't put much stock in terms like "intangibles" and "leadership", which sound like apologies). I am hoping he can step it up with upcoming games against a few teams that can score points.
Mista T is right. I said this on YBR and I'll say it here. The whole point of getting McNair was so the offense would win games for us, not relying so heavily on the D and Stover's leg. I don't see where that's changed from last year.

I love having McNair here, but if all we brought him here to do is play "Dilfer ball", then I think we GROSSLY overpaid for him.

[Mobtown]

I don't see where that's changed from last year.

At this time last year we were 0-2

[skimmy]

Forgive me if I am not frothing at the mouth for San Diego to get here. Next Sunday we need to see some real production out of this offense or we're going to see our first loss against a good team. We need to score touchdowns folks. Not one touchdown. No multiple 3 and outs. We need to figure out how to get into the endzone. Or all this warm and fuzzy about 3-0 is going to come to a halt real quick.

San Diego will be a tough this weekend for sure. They appear to have a stronger offense and comparable if not equal defense. The problem is neither team has beaten very good teams yet, so it is hard to judge either team with a very acurate measuring stick. Both teams played the Raiders and both teams blew them out...

[Ravens0587]

I love having McNair here, but if all we brought him here to do is play "Dilfer ball", then I think we GROSSLY overpaid for him.

If he ends up having the same success as Dilfer (you know what im talking about) would you still consider it overpaying?

[52decleetzu]

The thing that I take from those comments is that even if playing wise McNair isnt that much of an upgrade,the guys in the huddle have more confidence in McNair then they did with Boller.That alone will make a huge difference when in comes to their play on the field in crunch time,like the last drive yesterday.Confidence in sports is HUGE,and if mentally you feel like you believe that you and your other players will get it done you will.

[Raven31]

At this time last year we were 0-2
Believe me, I am VERY happy that we're 3-0 as opposed to 0-2. But that still does not change the fact that there are still some drastic improvements needed. McNair somewhat hides the deficiences of the O-line because of his experience in handling pressure, but that doesn't mean they still don't suck.

[Mobtown]

that doesn't mean they still don't suck.

You will get no argument from me on that one.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

The Browns have some VERY good talent and so many of you overlooked that all weekend.

Charlie Frye impressed the hell out of me. I thought he was a iffy prospect, and to a degree he still is, but he showed me alot yesterday. We bitch out our OL...but that crap he had in front of him was a joke...we sacked him, what 8 times? And hit him how many more? And he STILL not only showed that toughness everybody here loves, but he PRODUCED with that shitty protection. That pass to Edwards was one of the most beautiful throws I've ever seen...Rolle was beaten by MAYBE a half step and he just dropped it in there beatifully. The guy just seems to have "it". It is still too early, but I saw a lot of those traits in the game last year too.

Edwards and Winslow...it just seems as if people brushed those 2 aside as if they were run of the mill talents. Edwards is a Roy Williams clone, big, strong, and can run like a deer. He is going to be an absolutely terrific player in this league. And Winslow is one of the most purely talented TE's to ever come into the league. Have they proven anything yet? No, but they are tremendous talents that have to be accounted for.

And thier defense does not allow for big plays in the passing game. Billick even said in one of his pre-game press confernces said that we HAD to run the ball in this game and we didn't do a good job. You just aren't going to get big plays against a cover 2 defense. They make you dink and dunk the ball down the field and wait for mistakes. And elite CB's are completely irrelevant in that type of defense as they normally stay in short zones.

Add the fact that we don't have any burners at the WR spot and you see a grind it out game.

I had been predicting that all week while so many were insisting that I was crazy and this would be a complete blowout.

I think people where understimating them last week and apparently some still are after yesterday's game.

[Merlin]

The play calling was just unbelievable

How do we go from the mix-it-up calling of the first drive in Tampa versus the
typical sequence

First down -- run Jamal up the middle
Second down -- run Jamal
Third and long -- throw

Something is escaping me -- Fassel can't be that stubborn!