Poll: Your Response to Michael Vick the Raven?

[TheExtraPoint]

The Michael Vick saga is major NFL, and frankly, national news. One of the game's highest profile players faces major jail-time, and an uphill battle in a return to the league.

John Clayton and Don Banks, in articles posted for Friday morning for their respective websites, explain that despite the horror of the charges against Vick, and the likelihood that he'll face jailtime, league-wide consensus is that he'll make it back to the league in some capacity, likely with a team either with a desperate need to win, or with a team whose personnel men, coaches, and ownership could make such a bold move and survive the PR onslaught nearly assured to take place.

This got me thinking - How would the Ravens fan base react if the post-prison Vick got his second chance in Baltimore?

Hence the poll:

[Sephy]

Not worth it from a PR standpoint or a football standpoint. Guy just isn't an accurate enough passer to lead a football team. And could you imagine the articles or fan bashings if the RAVENS signed this guy?

[UKRavenStockers]

Unless Steve Bisciotti's suddenly gonna up sticks and sell the team it won't happen. He made a point when he took over that he wanted to clean up the reputation and criminal record of our team. Why would he throw all that away for a guy who's just out of jail in probably the biggest criminal case involving an NFL player since our former #31 and our own #52?

[RavensFanIAm]

Aberage QB at best that was overhyped because he could run..... It's a NO for me..

[orionsierra]

Why the poll in the first place? Did he get released?

As for my vote. No, hell no, no way, nyet, nunca. The guy's overrated to begin with and a douchbag on top of it. Besides, I like being able to read the newspaper and see OTHER teams dealing with criminal issues. For a while there it seemed like every few weeks a Ravens was in the news with criminal issues. :embarassed: :grbac:

[flraven]

I wouldn't want him on the Ravens either. Like Stockers said, Bisciotti is cleaning up the rep of the team and I don't see him wanting Vick on the squad.

I could see Al Davis going for him though.

[crazyraven]

Usually I stick up for guys like TO because I respect the talent they have and I really dont care about the off field BS. But bringing Vick in would be a nightmare on so many levels that it just wouldnt be worth it in the long run. No thanks, not after this.

[highwater]

No NFL team is going to sign Vick -- he's taken his last snap in this league. Well, on second thought, the Raiders are always a possibility, assuming he gets out of the hoosegow in time to still have a career. If he doesn't cop a plea today, and ends being tried, he's going to be locked up for quite a while. If he has any sense at all, he'll let his lawyers cut a deal and take what they give him.

And as mentioned earlier in this thread, it would be one really cold day in Hell before Bisciotti would even consider signing him. Definitely not his style.

[deuce]

Only if we can get a package deal with Ms Pacman and Rae Carruth. I keed I keed. Voted No and would protest.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

I'd protest. No way on Earth would I give a team my money so they could pay that piece of shit, and thats all he is. Not to mention, he's flat out not a good QB. One of the most overrated players in NFL history, in my opinion.

I agree with highwater though, I believe he is done in the NFL. He is practically unsignable, not only because of the bad PR the team will get, as well as fan backlash, but you also have to consider that Goodell will be looking down on any team that does. Of course, he's not officially off the Falcons, but theres no way he plays for them again. Arthur Blank isn't going to have scum like Vick on the Falcons.

[Fanman]

No friggin way would I want Vick as a Raven...EVER. I would stop going to games as long as he was on the team.

He's been a bust since he got into the league anyway...totally over-rated since day one.

FM

[jonboy79]

seemed liek a combination of the last three...

[GreenWave52]

Since everyone here is understandably opposed to Vick and condemming him, I thought I would link a different point of view and maybe generate discussion. This is from Gregg Easterbrook who is known for writing TMQ- Tuesday Morning Quarterback.

Sympathetic Vick? (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/070816)

And for the record I find what Vick did was reprehensible, but I do think he deserves a second chance. And if Ozzie thought Vick was ok then in Oz I trust.

If that player for the Chiefs (or Rams maybe I can't remember) gets drunk, drives, and kills a woman and is still playing; than I don't see how the league can ban Vick for life.

[Gwaihir]

Considering the fact that Al Davis probably won't sign JaMarcus Russell until next year, if then, I could see him playing for the Raiders when he gets out!

[Fanman]

The guy for the Rams shouldn't be playing in the league either if he is. But what he did was an accident...Vick is accused of murdering innocent dogs repeatedly.

If he gets back in the league there will be a huge backlash at every game and I doubt Goodell wants that type of blackeye on the league. The NFL will go on w/out Vick.

If he such a great talent let him try baseball or basketball.

FM

[crazyraven]

If that player for the Chiefs (or Rams maybe I can't remember) gets drunk, drives, and kills a woman and is still playing; than I don't see how the league can ban Vick for life.
i understand this point of view But the difference is more people are upset about the abuse toward dogs than to people. Vick screwed himself, the backlash on this seems unrepairable. As long as he is not a raven it wouldnt matter to me if he is in the NFL or not. It might be best for him to serve his time and just fade away.

[festivus]

If that player for the Chiefs (or Rams maybe I can't remember) gets drunk, drives, and kills a woman and is still playing; than I don't see how the league can ban Vick for life.

I understand you are deliberately playing devil's advocate here, that said I will take the bait. . .

First I am setting aside the "innocent until. . ." debate. That's for the formal process of a criminal trial. As others have written and said here and elsewhere, the Fed.s would not have charged unless they had overwhelming evidence. That's just how they do business.

Second. It is oversimplifying to compare what Vick is accused of with killing animals for food, or hunting, or accidentally killing someone (even while drunk) with a car.

Vick is accused not just of participating in the illegal sport of dogfighting. He is accused of torturing and beating animals. It is the torturing and beating angle that bothers *me* most, and I suspect most others as well. If Player X makes a tragic, criminal error in judgment, and gets drunk and kills someone with his car, that's terrible and he should pay the consequences whatever they are. But if, after he runs over the pedestrian, he sees what he's done, and, looking in the rearview mirror, goes into reverse and backs over the pedestrian *again*, then we are talking about evil, hateful horrid behavior. And *that's* what Vick did. Then the comparison would be apples to apples, instead of apples to oranges.

I remember there was a lady in Texas a few years back who, driving her car, hit a pedestrian who flew through the air and crashed in her windshield. So she drove home and left the car in the garage . . . with the pedestrian trapped in the windshield dieing!! The body wasn't found until a few days later! It's one thing to have a tragic car accident in which the driver was criminally wrong; it becomes another thing when the driver behaves unfathomably evilly in the aftermath. . .

It's not a question of what is worth more, a human or a dog. It's a question of how morally wrong is the practice of torturing and killing dogs by beating/electrocuting/drowning. That's not dogfighting, which is horrible enough alone. That's just evil.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

If Ozzie thinks Vick is ok then I will drop football cold turkey until he isn't a Raven, and I'm not the only one. I will NEVER, I repeat NEVER, cheer for that sack of shit Vick no matter what he says or does, nor will I ever give my money to a franchise that employs him so they can pay his salary. Will not do it, ever.

The NFL doesn't have to ban Vick for life for him to not get another job. Almost everyone except sick scumbags like Vick and his buddies have soft spots for animals, especially dogs, the fan backlash for a team, even a team like the Raiders, signing this guy would be unlike anything any of us have seen before.

Not to mention, a suspension of at least a year is certain, possibly even more, he wasn't good to begin with, after two years of not playing, he's not going to be worth anything.

[purplepoe]

According to documents, the 2 defendants who pleaded guilty today said this:

Vick financed everything.

He was at numerous fights.

He participated in the killing of at least 8 dogs.

Get this. The three amigos tried killing all 8 by hanging them from a tree. Three of the dogs survived so Vick and his 2 buddies filled up a 5 gallon bucket with water and submerged the dogs' heads until the drowned.

The story was on Sportscenter a few minutes ago and before they went to Kelly Naqi, they warned the audience about the graphic nature of the story.

Sick shit.

PP

[highwater]

The story was on Sportscenter a few minutes ago and before they went to Kelly Naqi, they warned the audience about the graphic nature of the story.

Sick shit.

It sure is, which is why he'll never play again in the NFL. If this goes to trial and the jury sees the photographic evidence of some of this, and it seems they do have some of that, it's hard to believe he won't get convicted. And if that evidence gets released to the general public, forget about any team signing him.

And while the dog torture and executions are appalling, don't forget that the feds and the NFL will come down hard on him for the gambling aspect of all this. He could literally get banned for life from the NFL just for the illegal gambling. Which is why he should cut a deal ASAP, before he gets hit with even more charges.

[The Fanatic]

Two Vick codefendants enter guilty pleas (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-vick817,0,1439536.story)

""Did you conspire with these folks to sponsor a dogfighting venture?" U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson asked Peace.

"Yes, sir," he replied.

As part of his plea agreement, Phillips signed a statement that said Vick joined in executing at least eight dogs that didn't do well in test fights by various methods, including hanging and drowning.

"Phillips agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips, and Vick," the statement said."


"Phillips and Peace also backed up Taylor's assertion that Vick was involved in gambling.

"The `Bad Newz Kennels' operation and gambling monies were almost exclusively funded by Vick," according to statements by the two men."

"Those allegations alone could trigger a lifetime ban under the NFL's personal conduct policy.'


I'm of the opinion that this poll will be of a non issue to have to worry about.

My guess is that Vick has seen his last days as an NFL player.

I think Goddell bans him for life.

We got a new sherriff in town who seems to really want to clean up the NFL.

The dude has already come out making statements regarding not wanting the high profile case to over shadow this upcoming season.

Tells me he's highly concerned about the way the NFL looks with this mess going on.

I can't even begin to imagine what would happen if Vick was brought back into the NFL after serving time for this crap.

There's no way somebody like Goddell wants to have to worry about the protests, etc. that would be going on outside NFL stadiums, etc. if Vick was brought back.

Vick apparently has already outright lied to Goddell which can't be going over real well with Goddell.

I'm a thinkin' if I got accused of something like this, was confronted by my boss about it, lied to him straight out, and then went to jail for it by taking a plea....
I wouldn't expect my job or any job opportunity in my company be made available to me when I got out.

[The Fanatic]

"Get this. The three amigos tried killing all 8 by hanging them from a tree. Three of the dogs survived so Vick and his 2 buddies filled up a 5 gallon bucket with water and submerged the dogs' heads until the drow'


Sick bastards right there.

Nope, can't see Goddell letting a monster like that play in the NFl again.

[ravenwoman]

If Michael Vick either accepts a plea agreement, or is convicted, I guarantee he will never play in the NFL again. Roger Goodell will suspend him for a period of time, and the rest of the owners will form a pack and secretly agree not to employ him in any way. If he plays football again, it will be in another league.

[Greg]

These kinds of acts are reprehensible. Getting off on the torture and killing of dogs in various manners and watching them fight each other to the death could only be more vile if it were done with humans.

If Vick ever suits up again in any uniform I would consider selling my PSLs.

Leonard Little is the Ram you are talking about above and while his actions were foolish, self-centered and incredible callous he was not out killing and torturing living things on purpose. That said, he got a DUI after that, IIRC and should have banned for life at that point.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

Ignoring the fact that Vick is a scumbag, why would anyone want him anyway? Look at these numbers

Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY

464 258 55.6 29.0 2559 5.5 159.9 13 2.8 11 2.4 57T 28 4 35 247

321 181 56.4 21.4 2313 7.2 154.2 14 4.4 12 3.7 62 35 8 46 266

One of those sets belongs to everyones favorite whipping boy (mine included) Boller. The other, Vick. Not a big difference.

[Rex Thunder]

The Michael Vick saga is major NFL, and frankly, national news. One of the game's highest profile players faces major jail-time, and an uphill battle in a return to the league.

John Clayton and Don Banks, in articles posted for Friday morning for their respective websites, explain that despite the horror of the charges against Vick, and the likelihood that he'll face jailtime, league-wide consensus is that he'll make it back to the league in some capacity, likely with a team either with a desperate need to win, or with a team whose personnel men, coaches, and ownership could make such a bold move and survive the PR onslaught nearly assured to take place.

This got me thinking - How would the Ravens fan base react if the post-prison Vick got his second chance in Baltimore?

Hence the poll:

Quite frankly- and no offense here- but the fact that this point was brought up is a bit aggravating. I say this because the whole situation with Vick is a travesty. It's atrocious the things he;s been accused of- and most likley has done. I have nothing positive to say about the man- so to get all hypothetical, not to mention, prophetical- is, for me at least, doing nthing but conjure up negative energy.

I think it would be awful- inspite of the many PR moves his camp will make to reinvent his image- to bring in this anyone coming out of jail, for such hideous actions I might add- to a team kind of just getting clear of the "gangster/thug" image to begin with.

There are so many good things going on with the Ravens this year- the last thing I want to see being discussed is hypotheticals about what's gonna happen YEARS down the road between the train wreck that is Michael Vick- and our Baltimore Ravens!


ps- I alwasy wondered how it was that Mike kept such a clean image while his little brother was so obviously a thug.. it all makes sense now...

[Ravens0587]

I think if he gets banned for life from the NFL then he will start naming names, the way Portis and Emmit Smith defended him leads me to believe that he's not the only NFL player to be doing this.

If he's not banned for life he will not name names, but I would be willing to bet if hes gone for life...he will pull a Jose Canseco

[highwater]

I think if he gets banned for life from the NFL then he will start naming names, the way Portis and Emmit Smith defended him leads me to believe that he's not the only NFL player to be doing this.


The Humane Society has mantained for years that there is a subculture of dogfighting in the NFL, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone like Portis has at least attended dog fights. His initial comments on the subject made him seem like he was pretty familiar with it. As far as Smith goes, I think he was just being stupid.

[GreenWave52]

Vick just pleaded guilty. The story is here (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2983121)

[festivus]

"The offense is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine."

No parole in the federal system. He will likely get some downward modifications somehow but the earlier speculation of ~12 month sentence looks significantly lower then what he will likely get.

Thanks for the link, Green Wave.

[Losac]

Just read the recommended sentence is 18-36 months, but the judge can sentence at his discretion.

His career is over. Good.

[TheExtraPoint]

I believe federal crimes carry a prison sentence of which convicts serve 85% of the initially declared prison term. So if it's a 12 month sentence, he'd serve just over 10 months, for example.

I hope he doesn't get off as easy as I suspect he may... Especially if testimony that he personally executed pit bulls was lined up against him and was accurate.

What a fall from grace, and what a horrifying story. One that's hardly over.

[TheExtraPoint]

The NFL Network's Adam Schefter is reporting the sentence to be between 10-12 months, according to NFL.com.

[Losac]

The NFL Network's Adam Schefter is reporting the sentence to be between 10-12 months, according to NFL.com.
That may be what the prosecutors are recommending, but again, the judge can sentence to anything up to the maximum allowable. Hope he's a dog lover.

[festivus]

Yeah, reports since my post yesterday make me think I was suffering from wishful thinking yesterday. It appears his sentence will be in the 12 - 18 month range. Without parole but, as ExtraPoint correctly adds, no parole still does not mean 100% time behind bars.

I am disappointed with all their evidence and a 5 year max this is the most they could (or would) get. Oh well.

[Mista T]

If he admits to the dog-killing in his plea agreement, he will also be subject to separate Virginia prosecution -- so his total time behind bars could grow.

No 2X jeopardy.

[highwater]

Not only could it grow, it could grow a lot -- it's a max of five years per offense in Virginia, so if they really want to pursue it, with eight dead dogs, that's a max of forty years. I doubt that will happen but, in theory, it's a possibility. Like Mista T said, if he signs a statement of fact on Monday that includes confirmation of his participation in the murder of these dogs, there is no legal reason why Virginia couldn't prosecute him and add years to his sentence.

[Fanman]

All I have to say is if Goodell lets him serve the league suspension while in jail I will start boycotting NFL sponsors.

The league suspension MUST be in addition to the jail time...not concurrently.

FM

[Real Fan Dan]

- He doesn't fit the Ravens offensive scheme
- His running abilities will be greatly diminished in 2-3 years
- The PR mess will be abominable
- His jailhouse boyfriend may not want him to play football anymore

Seriously tho, i hope he learns from his mistakes

[Sports Steve]

They should put Vick in the middle of a Extreme Fighting ring tied to a post and let about 50 angry pit bull dogs loose in the ring.

I don't want him anywhere close to our team the Baltimore Ravens


:jester: :jester:

[flraven]

FWIW, Vick's father has said that Mike has been into the dogfighting thing for a good while...

http://sports.excite.com/news/08242007/v5535.html

but perhaps this is sour grapes since Michael won't support him anymore??

[DrUnk]

He could have rescued puppies from a burning building, and I wouldn't want him. He sucks. If he didn't have wheels, we wouldn't be having this conversation; he wouldn't have made it past the first cuts. Great runner. Shitty passer.

[crazy football chick]

Well...he did have the top-selling jersey for 3 or 4 years in a row.

So for everyone that needs to get rid of them:

Top 6 Things to do with your VICK jersey...

http://crazyfootballchick.com/Top10s/9B9E27D4-24FE-4BFB-927F-4FB3C2B2931E.html